Bush makes help happen...'after fierce criticism'

[Shanti]

Why is it even the republicans have to start screaming that Bush finally does something?

He could have made a difference all along, but he waits till theres a fire lit then he comes out making himself look like the good guy.

He even is kissing victims! I would smack him!

He had the power to really push the help. He had plenty of time. He flew over the areas several times and knew it was bad. Like he wasnt getting reports of all those trapped people? Then what was he getting, sports scores?

He held back on using his power and resources until he gets bashed.

His innocent act aint going to work with me.
I knew he would play the caring one once the heat was bad enough!
LINK CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/02/bush.katrina.ap/index.html)

The president's comments came after New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin lashed out at federal officials, telling a local radio station "they don't have a clue what's going on down here."
Even Republicans were criticizing Bush and his administration for the sluggish relief effort. "I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

Bush opened the day at the White House where he expressed unhappiness with the efforts so far to provide food and water to hurricane victims and to stop looting and lawlessness in New Orleans.

[ShadowcatX]

Yeah, without a doubt. He's a politician. ::shakes my head:: I wish we'd elected a leader.

[Darkdale]

Why is it even the republicans have to start screaming that Bush finally does something?

He could have made a difference all along, but he waits till theres a fire lit then he comes out making himself look like the good guy.

He even is kissing victims! I would smack him!


You'd smack the president. What the hell is wrong with you? The City wasn't secure!!!! You want to put the President of the United States into a city where armed thugs are everywhere? That's just crazy! The President went there AS SOON AS IT WAS SAFE. Show some respect! :meanface:

You'd smack the president? What an American you are. There should be laws against threatening to attack the President. Oh Wait. There are.

Anyone know where I can report her? Maybe the Secret Service can pay her a visit.

[ShadowcatX]

You'd smack the president. What the hell is wrong with you? The City wasn't secure!!!! You want to put the President of the United States into a city where armed thugs are everywhere? That's just crazy! The President went there AS SOON AS IT WAS SAFE. Show some respect! :meanface:

You'd smack the president? What an American you are. There should be laws against threatening to attack the President. Oh Wait. There are.

Anyone know where I can report her? Maybe the Secret Service can pay her a visit.

We'll show respect when he shows compassion.

[Darkdale]

We'll show respect when he shows compassion.

He has. If you can't recongize that, then you don't know it when you see it. I'm just amazed, all these people dying and all you can focus on is President Bush. It's just sad. But, I don't know. Maybe you are doing both, caring too. I just don't see the Bush Haters promoting doing anything useful, as usual, they are complaining that what Republicans do isn't good enough. Typical and sad. Just sad.

[Nemesis Descending]

Anyone know where I can report her? Maybe the Secret Service can pay her a visit.

No, but you can probably get some hints on a google search as to how reporting people to the Gestapo was done in the days of Nazi Germany, which should provide some examples of how to go about turning in fellow citizens for saying things you find offensive.

But then again, maybe saying someone wants to slap the president is a far cry from making plans to do so, or wanting an actual opportunity. But what the heck, surely there are secret camps we can send to her anyway.

[Shanti]

Give me a break!!!!
Dont American lecture me. Bush had the power to do something.
I didnt tell those people at the convention center.."go here", and I didnt pick up people and drop them off at the center, with nothing, and tell them help is coming and then 4 days later they are left to die, and some did.
I didnt let people die waiting even though choppers could of been dropping rations since the beginning.
I am an American and I want a country that cares about its people. I want a country that doesnt talk a lot and act little while people die.

Americans died you know...from thirst!!

And if I went throught the hell many of these people did and the pres came up to my and kissed me, Ya I would smack him, especially if he doesnt have food or water in his hands!

Its not a threat..its self defence against unwanted physical contact!

Thats how I would feel.

[unicornlightining]

You'd smack the president. What the hell is wrong with you? The City wasn't secure!!!! You want to put the President of the United States into a city where armed thugs are everywhere? That's just crazy! The President went there AS SOON AS IT WAS SAFE. Show some respect! :meanface:

You'd smack the president? What an American you are. There should be laws against threatening to attack the President. Oh Wait. There are.

Anyone know where I can report her? Maybe the Secret Service can pay her a visit.
Asa take things into context. I can't speack for her but it came off more a figure of speech to me. And I completly agree with the iea of standing behind our president. But lets be realistic we haven't done that as a people since JFK. There are people angery at Bush and they are going to sound angery. Yes you too have the right to be angery that they have bad molthed the president. I too am saddened that we can't stand behind the man we chose. But I do have to say that with this episode it isn't easy.

[Storm Moon]

Whoo, you go Shanti! _handclapp

[Storm Moon]

Even though a 'certain someone' here is on my ignore list, I did see what was written and would like to say the following: If the President was slapped in front of hundreds of people, I doubt he'd do jack shit about it. If he understood how it was like to be there with barely enough food and means to survive he sure as hell wouldn't. My two cents.

[Darkdale]

Give me a break!!!!
Dont American lecture me. Bush had the power to do something.
I didnt tell those people at the convention center.."go here", and I didnt pick up people and drop them off at the center, with nothing, and tell them help is coming and then 4 days later they are left to die, and some did.
I didnt let people die waiting even though choppers could of been dropping rations since the beginning.
I am an American and I want a country that cares about its people. I want a country that doesnt talk a lot and act little while people die.

Americans died you know...from thirst!!

And if I went throught the hell many of these people did and the pres came up to my and kissed me, Ya I would smack him, especially if he doesnt have food or water in his hands!

Its not a threat..its self defence against unwanted physical contact!

Thats how I would feel.

I'm sorry, I understand you have feelings, but you have to have thoughts too. You have to be objective in figuring out how these types of situations work. Bush can't just push a magic button and everything is fixed. You may want to put Bush in danger by sending him into a city overrun with armed thugs, but I don't and most Americans don't. This is an amazing rescue and millions of lives have been saved, because of the mandatory evacuations and because of the rescue.

You don't see that. You want to blame bush and blame FEMA, without recognizing all the good they have done, their hard work and compassion. But you don't have any idea how this process works and you dont' care to either. You don't have the slightest idea how much time everything takes to organize, secure and move in. You are being critical because you hate Bush. That's all you can think about or even see and I think that is wrong. I think disrespecting the president in the manner in which you have done and continue to do is unconscionable! You may hate this country and it's government, but there are people dying in the Gulf and it's time to act out of compassion, not hatred. It's time to act with resolve, not fear.

[Shanti]

I'm sorry, I understand you have feelings, but you have to have thoughts too. You have to be objective in figuring out how these types of situations work. Bush can't just push a magic button and everything is fixed. You may want to put Bush in danger by sending him into a city overrun with armed thugs, but I don't and most Americans don't. This is an amazing rescue and millions of lives have been saved, because of the mandatory evacuations and because of the rescue.

You don't see that. You want to blame bush and blame FEMA, without recognizing all the good they have done, their hard work and compassion. But you don't have any idea how this process works and you dont' care to either. You don't have the slightest idea how much time everything takes to organize, secure and move in. You are being critical because you hate Bush. That's all you can think about or even see and I think that is wrong. I think disrespecting the president in the manner in which you have done and continue to do is unconscionable! You may hate this country and it's government, but there are people dying in the Gulf and it's time to act out of compassion, not hatred. It's time to act with resolve, not fear.

Dont tell me what I feel or what I am thinking...thats wrong!!

And I didnt say anything about puttig the pres in harms way!! Putting words in my mouth is wrong!!

Spout all you want but dont add or twist what I say and dont read my mind...you cant!!

Oh and dont patronize me...you dont have any clue as to understanding my feelings!! :geez:

[ShadowcatX]

He has. If you can't recongize that, then you don't know it when you see it. I'm just amazed, all these people dying and all you can focus on is President Bush. It's just sad. But, I don't know. Maybe you are doing both, caring too. I just don't see the Bush Haters promoting doing anything useful, as usual, they are complaining that what Republicans do isn't good enough. Typical and sad. Just sad.

And the majority of what you've done is is criticized the people who criticized Bush and told people to conserve gas.

Okay, you did give two important links and that's good, don't get me wrong.

[Darkdale]

Dont tell me what I feel or what I am thinking...thats wrong!!

And I didnt say anything about puttig the pres in harms way!! Putting words in my mouth is wrong!!

Spout all you want but dont add or twist what I say and dont read my mind...you cant!!

No, you didn't say it, because you didn't think about what it was you were saying or what the logical conclusions were. You wanted president Bush to just head to New Orleans sooner, but it wasn't secured and it couldn't be secured. That would put him in harms way. You didn't say that, because you hadn't thought about that, just as you haven't thought about how the entire process works. All you are doing is being critical with no idea what you are talking about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm trying to show you that words have meanings and logic ensues. If you are going to be critical, you need to know what you are talking about and you need to be able to offer other solutions. You don't have other solutions, just criticism and meanness. Now isn't a time for just being mean. Our focus should be on the people whose lives have been turned upside down, not you the fact that you hate President Bush.

[Darkdale]

And the majority of what you've done is is criticized the people who criticized Bush and told people to conserve gas.

Okay, you did give two important links and that's good, don't get me wrong.

All you can do is complain, you should really go donate blood or money or something. Or you don't care? Not your problem? It's Bush's fault? Please, don't lecture me, you haven't shown the least little bit of concern for anyone.

[Shanti]

No, you didn't say it, because you didn't think about what it was you were saying or what the logical conclusions were. You wanted president Bush to just head to New Orleans sooner, but it wasn't secured and it couldn't be secured. That would put him in harms way. You didn't say that, because you hadn't thought about that, just as you haven't thought about how the entire process works. All you are doing is being critical with no idea what you are talking about. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, I'm trying to show you that words have meanings and logic ensues. If you are going to be critical, you need to know what you are talking about and you need to be able to offer other solutions. You don't have other solutions, just criticism and meanness. Now isn't a time for just being mean. Our focus should be on the people whose lives have been turned upside down, not you the fact that you hate President Bush.

I dont believe this!! You twist everything.
You are telling me what I thought or didnt again!! And you are totally twisting everything I said to read your way. Get off it!

[Shanti]

All you can do is complain, you should really go donate blood or money or something. Or you don't care? Not your problem? It's Bush's fault? Please, don't lecture me, you haven't shown the least little bit of concern for anyone.

Excuse me this is the low of the low!!
How dare you!!!:grrrrr:
I have no money!!
I cant give blood, I have med probs and they cant let me give.
That is just so low...dont you dare say I dont care!!

I am in a financial hole, because I gave more than I could afford, last week, before the hurricane to the Hmong refugees here in my state!!

I would like to see you give all and them some to anyone!! I cant pay my electric bill because I gave my money away!!!

You dont know me....back off.

[Valnorran]

Excuse me this is the low of the low!!
How dare you!!!:grrrrr:
I have no money!!
I cant give blood, I have med probs and they cant let me give.
That is just so low...dont you dare say I dont care!!

I am in a financial hole, because I gave more than I could afford, last week, before the hurricane to the Hmong refugees here in my state!!

I would like to see you give all and them some to anyone!! I cant pay my electric bill because I gave my money away!!!

You dont know me....back off.
Yeah, excuse you. He wasn't talking to you.

[ShadowcatX]

All you can do is complain, you should really go donate blood or money or something. Or you don't care? Not your problem? It's Bush's fault? Please, don't lecture me, you haven't shown the least little bit of concern for anyone.

What makes you think I haven't? Because I'm not running around with a bull horn bragging about how great I am because I chipped in a few pennies and donated blood? Give me a bit more credit.

[Shanti]

Yeah, excuse you. He wasn't talking to you.

Hey sorry to Asa for that...its hard not to get defencive when somebody keeps twisting your words, adding words in your mouth, and telling you what you think and feel.

Besides its wrong to throw that card at anyone.

[Dark Phoenix]

The point is that this could have been handled better and the buck stop's with the President, and when people are dropping in the streets and dieing in Hospitals they are liable to get angry.

[unicornlightining]

The point is that this could have been handled better and the buck stop's with the President, and when people are dropping in the streets and dieing in Hospitals they are liable to get angry.
You took the words right out of my moulth :fpoke:

[Storm Moon]

Same here.

[Valnorran]

The point is that this could have been handled better and the buck stop's with the President, and when people are dropping in the streets and dieing in Hospitals they are liable to get angry.
Of course, but while they're throwing their tantrums people are still dying. Maybe they could get ahold of themselves and actually do something.

[Doctor Jeep]

All you can do is complain, you should really go donate blood or money or something.

And yet, ironically, here you are complaining about those who are complaining.

[PaganLibrarian]

The point is that this could have been handled better and the buck stop's with the President, and when people are dropping in the streets and dieing in Hospitals they are liable to get angry.

Things can always be run better. Frankly, considering the scope of the disaster, I am not all that unhappy with the way things have gone. It could have been much, much worse. The people who are complaining about Bush for this are, IMO, being irrational.

[Doctor Jeep]

Bush can't just push a magic button and everything is fixed. You may want to put Bush in danger by sending him into a city overrun with armed thugs

But wait - AmericanMe was just saying a few weeks ago that he was so brave for flying into Iraq to have Thanksgiving dinner with the troops. Does bravery only come with photo ops?

The primary point, though, is that Bush didn't have to fly to the area to have done a better job than he has.


You want to blame bush and blame FEMA, without recognizing all the good they have done, their hard work and compassion. But you don't have any idea how this process works and you dont' care to either. You don't have the slightest idea how much time everything takes to organize, secure and move in. You are being critical because you hate Bush. That's all you can think about or even see and I think that is wrong.

Bush himself has expressed dissatisfaction with the results. Does that mean he's doing it simply because he hates himself?

I think it's pretty sad that all you can do is cry "Bush hater" as a response to valid criticisms. But I guess I should be used to it by now. What's next, the hurricane is actually a political tool of the left?

[healeri2]

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/splash/katrina_splash.jpg

[PaganLibrarian]

How about, "Wanted: A sense of reality by the Bush-hating extremists"?

[healeri2]

How could he play guitar and go golfing the next day?

Excuse me, something is very, very wrong in America when an incompetant leader has sheeple blind to no end.

[healeri2]

Jackson blasts bush (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050902/ap_on_re_us/katrina_jackson_hk4)

[healeri2]

World Stunned (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/ts_nm/weather_katrina_reaction_dc)

[Dark Phoenix]

"On the next survivor we have Bush lovers and the Bush haters tribes fight to the death for the soul of the nation, only on CBS".

Is this what it has come down to?

[PaganLibrarian]

Would you rather he sat in the whitehouse, wringing his hands and quivering his lip? Something is very wrong in this country when a hurricane is blamed on a president.

[Faery-Wings]

I'm just amazed, all these people dying and all you can focus on is President Bush.

In the times of a crisis, most people want to look towards their leader to reassure them that they will be safe and secure.
It is like a child who needs a security blanket. It might not be able to *do* anything, but it makes him feel stronger and safer by seeing it.

Sadly, I don't think many people feel his presence in that way.

[PaganLibrarian]

And they feel that from, say, the congressional black caucus, or Michael Moore?

[Shanti]

Wow what a shock!!! I am 'not' the only person that sees inadequacies in our so called leaders!!!!!!!!!!! ~sarcasm

[PaganLibrarian]

Gee, our leaders are human! Whoda' thunk it?

[Shanti]

Gee, our leaders are human! Whoda' thunk it?

Yup and just like the rest of us they are resposible for their actions, or lack of and one thing that makes them differant...

They get away with a heck of a lot more 'mistakes' than the average citizen does!!

Most people get fired when they make a 'mistake' more than once on a job!

[Faery-Wings]

And they feel that from, say, the congressional black caucus, or Michael Moore?
Since I wasn't talking specifcally, I'll have to rely on my Social Psych notes: Western Society in general looks to leaders for direction. That is one reason why we have them.

[paygun]

In the times of a crisis, most people want to look towards their leader to reassure them that they will be safe and secure.
It is like a child who needs a security blanket. It might not be able to *do* anything, but it makes him feel stronger and safer by seeing it.

Sadly, I don't think many people feel his presence in that way.


If that leader tried to reassure me that I'd be safe and secure, I wouldn't believe it no matter who the leader is. We're seeing now that this attitude that government will take care of you can get you killed. We can all argue endlessly about who was at fault or why things weren't handled better but the writing is on the wall, you had better be prepared to take care of yourself.

Prepare now. Start today.

[Shanti]

If that leader tried to reassure me that I'd be safe and secure, I wouldn't believe it no matter who the leader is. We're seeing now that this attitude that government will take care of you can get you killed. We can all argue endlessly about who was at fault or why things weren't handled better but the writing is on the wall, you had better be prepared to take care of yourself.

Prepare now. Start today.

I agree but some cant help themselves. Thats a fact of life. Let them die?
But..
Then what the heck am I paying for?
FEMA...whats that for?

[PaganLibrarian]

Yup and just like the rest of us they are resposible for their actions, or lack of and one thing that makes them differant...

But they shouldn't be held to standards that no one could possibly meet. At least GWB wasn't getting a bj in the oval office when he was supposed to be meeting with foreign diplomats.

[Valnorran]

If that leader tried to reassure me that I'd be safe and secure, I wouldn't believe it no matter who the leader is. We're seeing now that this attitude that government will take care of you can get you killed. We can all argue endlessly about who was at fault or why things weren't handled better but the writing is on the wall, you had better be prepared to take care of yourself.

Prepare now. Start today.
A-FREAKIN'-MEN!

[PaganLibrarian]

And if you don't prepare, you can always blame GWB...

[StellaLuna]

Whew Shanti.
I was beginning to think I was one of the only ones on MW who feels the same way.

I'm very disappointed in my government, and devastated to see what has transpired.
Yes, there was no control of Katrina; but there was control of federal response. Pitiful.

[Shanti]

But they shouldn't be held to standards that no one could possibly meet. At least GWB wasn't getting a bj in the oval office when he was supposed to be meeting with foreign diplomats.

As my SO's boss would say, if you cant do the job...theres the door.

Guess some people have jobs they shouldnt. They just arent qualified and dont have what it takes.

[healeri2]

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/splash/katrina_splash.jpg

[Faery-Wings]

Oh believe me, I live close to NYC. I get the whole "take care of yourself" and "be prepared" deal. What I am trying to say is that *I* feel that the US (in general) elects a president to lead us - not like sheep- but we take our cues on how to act and react- from our leaders. I never said it was his fault, I don't expect him to wave a magic wand and make it all better. I would like to see him step up-and say he will "stay the course," see this through, do whatever it takes. etc.

Does that make more sense as to why so many of us are dis-satisfied?

Honestly, Katrina has nothing at all to do with Iraq. However, the people who were previously upset that we are spending so much money, have so many soldiers, are being so strong and steady in Iraq, well, this seems like a slap in the face in a way.It is tdue to th juxtaposition of his attiudes towards Iraq and the way he has presented himself and the govt towards his own people that has many people upset.

[Shanti]

And if you don't prepare, you can always blame GWB...

Hey tell that to the elderly man that died at the convention center waiting for help.
Or to the woman with heart probs that was barely hanging on to life at day 4.
Tell that to all the people that due to poverty couldnt afford to leave with small kids in tow. And their kids died waiting!

These people were told to go to the convention center and left there with nothing.

Many did prepare as best they could. We are not all fortunate you know.

[paygun]

I agree but some cant help themselves. Thats a fact of life. Let them die?
But..
Then what the heck am I paying for?
FEMA...whats that for?

It's for exactly what you think it's for, they're just incompetent even on their best day. I'm paying for it too and I think it's a travesty.

I don't think those people who can't help themselves deserve to die, and I don't think they should be left to die either. I think our government is a failure though and preparing to take care of yourself and your family is very important because you can't rely on government to do it for you, even if they should be. This should be a wake up call. Government can't or won't take care of us.

Until these things can be fixed, though people need to prepare to take care of themselves. I'm not blaming the victims in New Orleans, I'm talking about where we go from here. People need to have a Plan B until we can gut our government and start over.

[PaganLibrarian]

I never said it was his fault, I don't expect him to wave a magic wand and make it all better. I would like to see him step up-and say he will "stay the course," see this through, do whatever it takes. etc

Lot's of people here, and in the media are saying it is his fault that people have died. That is completely bogus, but then they are looking for any reason to hate Bush. He has said plenty as far as I can see.


Honestly, Katrina has nothing at all to do with Iraq.

And despite that there are plenty of people who are trying to link the two. Saying such things as we aren't sending National Guard in, because they're all in Iraq, even though the national guard are there.

[Shanti]

It's for exactly what you think it's for, they're just incompetent even on their best day. I'm paying for it too and I think it's a travesty.

I don't think those people who can't help themselves deserve to die, and I don't think they should be left to die either. I think our government is a failure though and preparing to take care of yourself and your family is very important because you can't rely on government to do it for you, even if they should be. This should be a wake up call. Government can't or won't take care of us.

Until these things can be fixed, though people need to prepare to take care of themselves. I'm not blaming the victims in New Orleans, I'm talking about where we go from here. People need to have a Plan B until we can gut our government and start over.

Oh Ok..I see your perspective!!
LOL, I already have been saying that I would rather die trying to help myself/family than sit around and wait for help that may come...someday!!

I definately know you have to put your life in your own hands...sucks for those who cant or dont know how.

[Doctor Jeep]

But they shouldn't be held to standards that no one could possibly meet. At least GWB wasn't getting a bj in the oval office when he was supposed to be meeting with foreign diplomats.

:rolleyes: I was just waiting for someone to point a finger at Clinton. Now all we need is a post blaming the liberal media and we'll be set for the day!

[Shanti]

Correct me if I am wrong.

I have watched this from day one.
I heard Bush from day one say that we have to get those people out of there. I heard that over and over again.
Correct?

Ok the prob...when did he ever say 'we must find away to get water and food to them now, while they wait for help to arrive.' 'We must launch massive air drops of rations now.'
'We must concentrate on keeping them alive while they wait.'
So anyone have a quote they can link for that?

[PaganLibrarian]

Ok the prob...when did he ever say 'we must find away to get water and food to them now, while they wait for help to arrive.' 'We must launch massive air drops of rations now.

So where, exactly, would you like them to airdrop supplies to. If you drop them into New Orleans, they get destroyed by the water, or the toxic mess, or stolen and hoarded by armed looters. If you drop them outside New Orleans, you don't get them into New Orleans any faster. The answer is to get the people out, not to move supplies in.

[paygun]

Oh believe me, I live close to NYC. I get the whole "take care of yourself" and "be prepared" deal. What I am trying to say is that *I* feel that the US (in general) elects a president to lead us - not like sheep- but we take our cues on how to act and react- from our leaders. I never said it was his fault, I don't expect him to wave a magic wand and make it all better. I would like to see him step up-and say he will "stay the course," see this through, do whatever it takes. etc.

Does that make more sense as to why so many of us are dis-satisfied?

Honestly, Katrina has nothing at all to do with Iraq. However, the people who were previously upset that we are spending so much money, have so many soldiers, are being so strong and steady in Iraq, well, this seems like a slap in the face in a way.It is tdue to th juxtaposition of his attiudes towards Iraq and the way he has presented himself and the govt towards his own people that has many people upset.

Sure it makes sense, I'm dissatisfied with it too, I think everyone is. But press conferences and speeches don't really accomplish much. I'd like to see more action and less politics from everyone involved. That's the way things work now, though. Death has always been a great vehicle for political power and I'm sure it will be in the future. Especially now anything can be politicized and both right and left are milking every media circus for whatever it's worth. Partisan bickering won't solve the problem though, that's what got Bush re-elected.

[ShadowcatX]

Would you rather he sat in the whitehouse, wringing his hands and quivering his lip? Something is very wrong in this country when a hurricane is blamed on a president.

Are you deliberately being dense or has it really not sunk in? We're not blaming him for the Hurricane, we're blaming him for his actions in regards to the Hurricane.

[ShadowcatX]

This thread's getting too heated, myself included. We all need to calm down and breathe for a min.

[Shanti]

So where, exactly, would you like them to airdrop supplies to. If you drop them into New Orleans, they get destroyed by the water, or the toxic mess, or stolen and hoarded by armed looters. If you drop them outside New Orleans, you don't get them into New Orleans any faster. The answer is to get the people out, not to move supplies in.
The convention center..a 'designated shelter' , for this hurricane, was and is above water. The dome had drops made, a little.

There were reports on tv of areas in the other states were people couldnt get out and it was dry land and they too went a couple of days without water.

[Dark Phoenix]

So where, exactly, would you like them to airdrop supplies to. If you drop them into New Orleans, they get destroyed by the water, or the toxic mess, or stolen and hoarded by armed looters. If you drop them outside New Orleans, you don't get them into New Orleans any faster. The answer is to get the people out, not to move supplies in.

The problem a lot of people are still stuck there waiting for buses that never show, FEMA dropped the ball in evacuating the people.

[Darkdale]

The problem a lot of people are still stuck there waiting for buses that never show, FEMA dropped the ball in evacuating the people.

What are you talking about? FEMA may have the entire city emptied by tomorrow night. That isn't fast enough for you? Emptying a city in less then a week.

May I ask, exactly what your expectations were? Because, mine appear to be lower, though I don't think at all unreasonable. A disaster is a disaster. I mean... it's really hard to deal with. You can't solve it over night.

[Dark Phoenix]

What are you talking about? FEMA may have the entire city emptied by tomorrow night. That isn't fast enough for you? Emptying a city in less then a week.

City officials estimate there are fifty thousand people still trapped in the city, if they can get them out of the city by tomorrow I will be very surprised.

[Darkdale]

sorry - i just edited my post if you missed that.

[Shanti]

What are you talking about? FEMA may have the entire city emptied by tomorrow night. That isn't fast enough for you? Emptying a city in less then a week.

May I ask, exactly what your expectations were? Because, mine appear to be lower, though I don't think at all unreasonable. A disaster is a disaster. I mean... it's really hard to deal with. You can't solve it over night.


They could of dropped rations there it was above water. There was no excuse for not doing that!
They didnt have to leave them their to die waiting.
The buses that collected refugees actually dropped them off at the center with nothing, and nothing waiting for them. They were told help was coming but hey people can not live that long without food or water..thats a fact and air drops were doable. It was a large dry area.
If buses could take people there, why couldnt some have been loaded with some water? Theres room for people and bottles of water. Heck I bet people wouldnt of minded having a few gallons of water on their laps!!!
Sorry...no excuse.

[Storm Moon]

I don't think anyone here is blaming Bush for the hurricane, but only saying that he should have been there a lot quicker than 4 days. And if it wasn't safe, then he should have been risking his ass there just like the rest of those people there.

[Ivana38]

FACTS:

l. Bush drastically cut funding to finish building the levees to hold back the waters from NOLA

2. The majority of LOUISIANA GUARD, their equipment etc. is in IRAQ

3. The majority of those trapped in NOLA are Black, Poor and Democrats.
Therefore they are EXPENDABLE......


Bush would have dawdled 'til forever if there hadn't been such a s--tstorm.

GOOGLE the above first two and then, go ahead and FLAME me - see if I care



BRING THE TROOPS HOME - NOW

Love, Light and PEACE
Ivana

[Shanti]

Heres my thread!!!

[lynn271]

I don't think anyone here is blaming Bush for the hurricane, but only saying that he should have been there a lot quicker than 4 days. And if it wasn't safe, then he should have been risking his ass there just like the rest of those people there.

Would have made a great photo op.

Honestly, I don't care one whit whether he was physically there. I'm disturbed that he didn't order supplies brought in the minute it was understood that people didn't have them, and make it clear that heads would roll if it didn't happen NOW.

Too dangerous to bring in supplies, because some lowlifes were taking potshots? Bull hockey. If we're willing to risk and lose lives for the benefit of Afghans and Iraqis, we sure as hell ought to be able to do it for our own people.

[Shanti]

FACTS:

l. Bush drastically cut funding to finish building the levees to hold back the waters from NOLA

2. The majority of LOUISIANA GUARD, their equipment etc. is in IRAQ

3. The majority of those trapped in NOLA are Black, Poor and Democrats.
Therefore they are EXPENDABLE......


Bush would have dawdled 'til forever if there hadn't been such a s--tstorm.

GOOGLE the above first two and then, go ahead and FLAME me - see if I care



BRING THE TROOPS HOME - NOW

Love, Light and PEACE
Ivana

1 and 3 I know are true.
Bush did cut the funding to the point of killing the project..I watched all about it on CNN International.
He did this several years ago. He was told the risk of not letting The Army Corp of Engineers work on NOLA.

Bush cut the funding anyhow. The Army Corp of Engineers where forced to drop the plans. They knew the levees where for a Cat3 and knew it wasnt enough.

Because of that NOLA drowned.
They levees broke after the storm.
Bush was told..he refused the money.

[sari0009]

In a five-day, tabletop exercise last summer, emergency preparedness officials faced an imaginary "worst-case scenario" in which a hurricane hit the New Orleans, Louisiana, area.
Source: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/02/hurricane.drill/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/02/hurricane.drill/index.html)

Were all those involved in both the tabletop exercise and the actual emergency (not just Bush), relying too much on "the plan" but the plan was only part of the story? That's an earnest question. Seems like an obvious failure of imagination to me. Why? Because of these questions.

How much did the public know about "the plan" in general and did the public specifically understand that part of the plan was that anyone who couldn't or wouldn't leave might be on their own for some days (that was mentioned in the exercise) in a hostile raw wet contaminated environment in which looting and anarchy could occur with little deterrent ... after all they would be be on their own for a while in a hostile environment?

"Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature's inexorable imperative." --H. G. Wells

The willingness to communicate sufficiently, imagine and work together, through thick and thin and harmony and discord was and is needed in government and in the streets/domes/busyards/ports full of cruise ships ... such is the needed common ground supportive of adaptation and coordination ... from plan to reality? It's also the frontier?

[narleymarley03]

This is an observation I made today. When Bush was at the airport over in Mobile haviong a news conference. That is the exact time the trucks paraded in to the convention center.
It reminded me of when he held up the carrier and turned it like they were out to sea and came flying in in his flight suit.
Was this his other "Mission Accomplished"?

[Nighthawk]

My opinion...Bush is an awful President and leader..a disgrace, not only to the office, but to America.....It is sad. I see tons of $$$ going to HIS war. I see not a bunch going to OUR people... Oh well

[sari0009]

I just heard something I liked ... The Golden Rule Initiative ... They are going from community to community to match empty beds in homes to those in need. http://www.governorpress.alabama.gov/pr/pr-2005-09-01-02-katrina_goldenrule.asp (http://www.governorpress.alabama.gov/pr/pr-2005-09-01-02-katrina_goldenrule.asp)

Also, A Disaster Map 'Wiki' Is Born ... see http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,43412,00.html (http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,43412,00.html) and the site it refers to at http://www.scipionus.com/ (http://www.scipionus.com/)

[Nighthawk]

Well , this is a step in the right direction..

[sari0009]

Well , this is a step in the right direction..

So is this:

Offers by the thousands Via the Web

MoveOn.org Civic Action, which set up HurricaneHousing.org on Thursday, said its Web site listed offers for 50,950 beds on Friday afternoon, and the number was climbing by more than 1,000 per hour.
Others were involved too!
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175917/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175917/)

[9-2-2]

Wow. I've just finished donating, and I'm now taking Political Pagan in a new light... this screaming fight is pretty entertaining, and I'm glad that it calmed down somewhat. Entertaining yet purposeless. So who's going to donate instead of squabbling about who's more right than who? I'm just curious, since there's so much passion about pro-Bush this and anti-Bush that, we could, well, you know, focus this passion as one towards the assistance of those suffering from the disaster.

[9-2-2]

So is this:

Offers by the thousands Via the Web

MoveOn.org Civic Action, which set up HurricaneHousing.org on Thursday, said its Web site listed offers for 50,950 beds on Friday afternoon, and the number was climbing by more than 1,000 per hour.
Others were involved too!
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175917/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175917/)

That's pretty cool.