christian and pagan?

[gwen]

gwen here, just wanting to know what everyone thinks about trying to be a christian and pagan. having been a christian for most of my life and now becoming a pagan, some of the christian beliefs are so instilled in my heart, like jesus being the son of god. i,m happier being pagan, but still have feelings for certain christian doctrines. my strongest feelings are wiccan. very few people where i work know of my faith. i live in the bible belt, would not be accepted at all. have gone to church with some people from work, it was o.k. any thoughts , i m sure there are.
love to hear from fellow believers,especially missshorty, we,,re from the same state.
bright blessings, gwen

[Myst]

Some will try to tell you you can't be Christian and Pagan - well in short that's a load of crap. It is not Christian to hate anyone for their religion, even though some would like you to believe that. God did not say "thou shalt hate Pagans", nor did He say "Pagans go to Hell".

When He said don't worship false idols, perhaps he meant that false idols are greed or wealth, perhaps he meant all Gods are one thus you CAN'T worship false idols. When he said thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live, maybe he meant if you are harmed don't sit there and take it, stay away from them.

We must remember that the Bible was created by man, and even though it was for Him, man is prone to twist words to his own beliefs. So if in your heart you wish to be Christian and Pagan, you will be. You can keep your Christian beliefs and Pagan beliefs together, no matter what anyone would tell you. Only you know what is right in your heart, so go for it.

I believe if I have been mistaken, when I go to judgment, He will forgive me. Perhaps He will tell me he only meant for people to love eachother in whatever way they wanted.

I think meshing the beliefs of the two is a beautiful idea.

[bansidhe]

mmmhmmm...i agree myst...kinda like the way the celts amalgamated the old ways and the new into celtic christianity. :)

[talamh]

You might be interested in www.christianwicca.com a site someone else posted on MysticWicks a while back.

You might also find it helpful to read the section on Jesus Christ in the Barbara Walker ""Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets".. although why the book title has the word "Women" in it i can't quite figure.

A lot of Christianity came from the same mythological sources from which contemporary pagan belief comes and hence, has a lot of similarities... particularly the mythology of the god who sacrifices himself so that life may continue.

There are differences in terms of "strict" church doctrine but most of the sincere Christians i know are eclectic... taking the parts of Christian belief that speak to them and letting the rest go.

Ultimately we're all like blind people touching different pats of an elephant and describing what we find..... some are descriving a leg, some the trunk, some the tail, some the massive side.... all are different experiences but all are very valid parts of the elephant.

Maybe at some point in our journey we get to take off the blindforlds and see the bigger picture... maybe when we are capable of understanding the bigger picture. bb talamh

[bluebear]

Hello Gwen. Dont be nervous about mixing the different paths. I think it may be part of our spiritual evolution. I regularly attend services at the local Episcopal church and dont have a problem with it. I even sing in their choir. It's really a nice bunch of people ( with the exception of one or two individuals). Most of the people there know that I am Pagan and dont really care.
Blessings
Bluebear

[MammaStar]

May I add something, that may be slightly OT. I just read the posts here and I am so happy to see such positive responses! I myself, think it's wonderful if you feel you can combine the best of both religons as one. For me, being a Pagan is just that, taking from a mix of different beliefs and meshing it into one that I'm happy with. In just the short time I've been on my path, I've seen how I've changed from the beginning of my learning to now.

It's truly a wonderful thing, dontcha think? :D

[white_draco]

go with your heart....

[Kadynas]

Originally posted by Myst

I believe if I have been mistaken, when I go to judgment, He will forgive me. Perhaps He will tell me he only meant for people to love each other in whatever way they wanted.

Blessed Be! I can totally agree with that...

[ShadowCat]

Yes I agree.. go ahead!! In my opinion many if not all Christian teachings and morals are very wise and respectable!!
If you feel that the path is right for you, then it is :)

[bluebear]

If I may, I'd like to add one more thing. Although I believe that the teachings of Christian churches are a bunch of baloney for the most part, I do believe in the teachings of JESUS (as he taught them). "Love thy God with thy whole Heart, thy whole Mind and thy whole Spirit___ and love thy Neighbor as thy self.
Is this not what we as Pagans also believe and practice?
Blessed be.
Bluebear

[Niamh]

I agree with everyone here. Some of the teaching of the Church, the institution itself, go against what I believe. However, I think that the teachings of Jesus are beautiful.

I was raised Catholic, and still have "Christian tendencies" if you will. At first I was upset with myself and tried to fight them. But in getting to know myself better, and in reading a great deal about Wicca, paganism, etc. I learned to go with it.

So, if I'm feeling particularly frightened or vulnerable, I don't think twice about kneeling down and clasping my hands to pray to the Goddess. I think I might occassionally bless myself! Maybe it makes the act more "official" for me, I don't know.

What I'm trying to say, like everyone else before me, is let it flow and be comfortable with yourself!

[Dria El]

What's the difference? (I mean, really.)

[white_draco]

Really, with all the contradictions in the Bible how can anybody truly follow the Bible..." Don't do this " in one part, " Oh come on do it as much as you can " in the next part. I don't understand why alot of things are the way they are in the Bible, maybe the morals and rules in the Bible were essential during that time.




-White Draco-

[Lily Mai]

I have to agree with everyone that its totally fine. I mean, not many people know this, but I found it out the other day, Jesus was Jewish right? Well the Jewish cult he came from was an occult one, so if anyone is gonna understand, he is. From your point of of course, I don't believe in him as the son of god, but the rest of my family does, and a couple of my friends are very dedicated to it.

[bluebear]

I beleive that we are all the sons and daughters of God!!!!!!!
Blessings
Bluebear

[Aengus McTeague]

Can one be a Christian and a Pagan? I don't think so. They are two very different, and I think mutually exlusive spiritual paths. It's all very well and good to learn from, and share with other spiritual traditions, but trying to combine them muddies and weakens both.

Christianity has some pretty specific beliefs, you will find the overwhelming majority of Christians in agreement on these point:

1. Humanity is sinful by nature, and is in need of forgiveness/redemption.

2. Jesus is very literally the Son of God, and lived a perfectly sinless life.

3. Sins are forgiven only through Jesus.

Many different Christian traditions differ on other matters of belief, but these are very nearly universal. I don't find them to be at all compatible with any Pagan tradition I am aware of.

That being said, I believe that we can learn much from Christianity (and teach much to it as well). Trying to say that Jesus originally came from a Pagan Jewish cult, while posibbly true, doesn't help matters. Christianity is what it is, not what it was or what we would like it to be.

It isn't our place to try and change their religion to suit us, just as it isn't their place to try and change paganism to suit them. On the three points I listed, Catholics, Baptists, Eastern Orthodox, Quakers, Episcopalians are all in agreement. And I think you would also find them in agreement that it is not possible to follow Christianity and another religion at the same time.

Even Mathhew Fox, the incredible theologian who taught alongside Starhawk for awhile, did not feel it was possible to combine the two traditions into one. He felt that Christianity needed to recover it's compassionate, earthy, generous side, and I agree with him, but he still felt that Christianity was a seperate, distinct, religion.

Honoring Jesus is not the same as being a Christian, honoring nature is not the same as being a Pagan.

[bluebear]

Very well stated Aengus. I must agree with you completely.
Live long and prosper
Bluebear

[Ravensnest]

I think you mut do what is comfortable to you. No one can tell you what your heart feels and your mind believes. Only you can do that. Personally, I think the hardest thing for those who come to the pagan path from christianity to do is to say they are no longer a christian. I had a real hard time with that for a very long time. And I came to the pagan path at a very early age. But, still that christian belief that all other ways are false ones hangs in there. It's not something outwardly showing itself, just lurking in the shadows waiting for the moment you begin to let go and then it leaps on you and reminds you that you're going astray. I finally came to be more comfortable with simply saying I wasn't a christian I was a pagan. It took time but, now I don't feel that same pang of guilt when I say it.

The thing is only you can know when it's the right time or if it will ever be the right time for you to do that. Until then, do what is right for you!
Dottie

[Happydog]

Of course Jesus is a son of the God. He is a manifestation of the God, one of many, so having affection for him and reverencing him as a guide and a Godform is perfectly normal.

I had a friend once who was a missionary in India. The missionaries get pretty frustrated. One missionary was explaining about Jesus being the Son of God and handing out pictures of Jesus to people, and there was one man who said, "Oh, I see! Jesus is the Son of God!" The missionary was very pleased and marked him down as a Christian convert, and gave him a picture of Jesus.

So the missionary goes to visit him a couple days later and finds the picture of Jesus up there on the family altar...with all the pictures of the other gods and goddesses! "I thought you said you believed Jesus was the son of God!" says the missionary. "Yes, " said the man, "and so is this one, and this one and this one," he said, pointing to various pictures on his altar.

The great occultist and magickian Dion Fortune counted Jesus as one of her most important Guides and Master Teachers. It is not at all unusual to incorporate Christian ideas and images into Pagan work, because Paganism is where many of them originated in the first place.

[Lily Mai]

Originally posted by Aengus McTeague
Can one be a Christian and a Pagan? I don't think so. They are two very different, and I think mutually exlusive spiritual paths. It's all very well and good to learn from, and share with other spiritual traditions, but trying to combine them muddies and weakens both.

Christianity has some pretty specific beliefs, you will find the overwhelming majority of Christians in agreement on these point:

1. Humanity is sinful by nature, and is in need of forgiveness/redemption.

2. Jesus is very literally the Son of God, and lived a perfectly sinless life.

3. Sins are forgiven only through Jesus.

Many different Christian traditions differ on other matters of belief, but these are very nearly universal. I don't find them to be at all compatible with any Pagan tradition I am aware of.

That being said, I believe that we can learn much from Christianity (and teach much to it as well). Trying to say that Jesus originally came from a Pagan Jewish cult, while posibbly true, doesn't help matters. Christianity is what it is, not what it was or what we would like it to be.

It isn't our place to try and change their religion to suit us, just as it isn't their place to try and change paganism to suit them. On the three points I listed, Catholics, Baptists, Eastern Orthodox, Quakers, Episcopalians are all in agreement. And I think you would also find them in agreement that it is not possible to follow Christianity and another religion at the same time.

Even Mathhew Fox, the incredible theologian who taught alongside Starhawk for awhile, did not feel it was possible to combine the two traditions into one. He felt that Christianity needed to recover it's compassionate, earthy, generous side, and I agree with him, but he still felt that Christianity was a seperate, distinct, religion.

Honoring Jesus is not the same as being a Christian, honoring nature is not the same as being a Pagan.

Actually, I don't agree. I mean everything except the bit about you not being able to mix them is right. I don't see why you can't. In christianity, they tell you to work out what you believe. Like was Jesus the actual son of God, or an incredable man who followed the teachings of God better than anyone else could. It also teaches tolerance of other religions. So why can't you mix them?? They aren't actually that un-compatable. One teaches all about human nature, the other about respecting the earth (amoung other things, but thats really what makes it different from christianity).

[Myst]

Originally posted by Aengus McTeague
Christianity has some pretty specific beliefs, you will find the overwhelming majority of Christians in agreement on these point:

1. Humanity is sinful by nature, and is in need of forgiveness/redemption.

2. Jesus is very literally the Son of God, and lived a perfectly sinless life.

3. Sins are forgiven only through Jesus.


Nuh uh. That's your interpretation of what Christianity is. It's like saying people can't be Wiccan if they're not Alexandrian or Gardnerian. That may be your opinion but that doesn't change what other people believe or what they call themself.

Personally I don't give a darn what anyone thinks Christianity is anymore then I care about what a fundie thinks Paganism is. Just because a fundie might think I torture cats doesn't mean I do or that I'm not Pagan if I don't. No one defines anyone's beliefs but the person believing, period.

Just because you think most Christians agree on that doesn't make it the epitome of Christianity. That's like saying in the burning times most Christians thought Pagans were in league with the devil and thus tortured and killed them, therefore Paganism is really the worship of Satan and killing people for their beliefs is Christian.

It is our place to practice and believe as we see fit, regardless of what others force on us. Stating we can't do so because some guy or some people said so is the same as saying we should start praying to Satan because someone says that's what Paganism is about.

No.

[Chibi-Fallon]

Touchy touchy. Remind me not to get on your bad side.
Anyway I guess if you want to be Christian and Pagan, go for it. Have fun. No one can really stop you. If you think it's right then why not?

[Myst]

Ugh it posted twice. :razz: at the server.

*ahem* :sunny:

[white_draco]

Aengus McTeague, I don't see any reasoning of the 3 things you gave that saids that a Pagan can't have those 3 things. A Pagan is somebody who lives with Nature and learns from it, imo. Christianity has enough Pagan DNA for everybody to have some.
Christianity has tons of Sects and things are different in each one, every Christian is different. Also I would like to say that Religion is more of a social grouping, Spirituality is something that is personal, deep, and meaningful. Spirituality just like Religion is ambiguous.

- White Draco -

[Dria El]

Aren't all Gods (and to clarify, Goddesses) one God?

[Myst]

Originally posted by Dria El
Aren't all Gods (and to clarify, Goddesses) one God?

Yup, for a lot of people. I'm telling you now though if you were to say "all Gods are one God" you'd probably have someone screaming at you about how that's wrong (oh I've been there, done that). I agree wholeheartedly tho, so to me there's no problem.

[Dria El]

:rolleyes:

Gods, don't I know it! I almost hate posting my opinions anywhere anymore because it seems like everyone wants to fight about everything. Sheesh!

[white_draco]

It takes Courage and Strength to stand up and say your Opinion.....

It takes even more Courage and Strength to sit down, shuddd up, and listen.

It takes a Responsible Person to discuss topics without ripping the other person's head off....


- White Draco -

[Lily Mai]

Originally posted by white_draco
It takes Courage and Strength to stand up and say your Opinion.....

It takes even more Courage and Strength to sit down, shuddd up, and listen.

It takes a Responsible Person to discuss topics without ripping the other person's head off....


- White Draco -

I quite agree

[Niamh]

I agree too...

And I stand by my opinion that one should do whatever they are most comfortable with, and whatever they find happiness with. Some people cannot marry the two traditions. Some people can. It's all with the individual.