TV magic

[kissesree]

Do you beleve that any TV magitions have real powers, or are they all just tricks?

I ask, because I find myself questioning reality.

[kissesree]

Ok I know I sound like a flake, but I do wanna know what other people think. It drives me nuts, because I dream of things like flight, and to know that other people might be able to fly in reality might help me feel less crazy. If not, than I can stop being a flake and get back in touch with reality. It just seems soooo real.

[Bix]

I think it's just tricks...but it would be cool if we could do it. :)

[HeavensHope]

Blaine...I think it's tricks..I dont know...as for Angel...hm...the whole levitation thing looks to real to be fake...so I dont know. Unless I'm one of those bystanders and see it for myself I cant be sure of it.

[IvyWitch]

It's all fake. Smoke and mirrors. Sleight of hand. That's why it's stage magic.

Criss Angel is a very talented stage magician, but he doesn't have "real magic powers" that allow him to do the things he does. He, like all other stage magicians, are just the best at getting you to pay attention to the right hand so you don't know what the left hand is doing, so to speak.

Blaine is also a stage magician and even further away from having any sort of magic powers. He's also pretty second rate as far as magicians go.

Though, I do know one magician who's tricks are real. But he doesn't do card tricks or stuff like that, he does Carney stuff, like eating glass and hammering nails into his nose.

Wanna know how that make stuff like elephants and airplane's disappear on magic specials on TV? The audience is in on it.

[halfwaynowhere]

most of them are fake... max maven is real though, but he's not so much a magician as a hypnotist/mind reader person.. my sister met him once, and really, its just manipulation, but everything he does is what he says he's doing... but really, i don't consider any of that fake, because its all carefully planned, and i respect that... its showbiz, and if they can pull it off, more power to them..

[kissesree]

I feel better. thanks.

[RainDance]

yuck to david blane _tomatoe_
he gives me a nasty vibe that makes me wanna barf _catroll_

some of chris angel's acts are real , the others are just tricks

[IvyWitch]

Yeah that whole thing with him suspending himself from fish hooks....that's real. Creepy, but real.

It's kind of cool in some sick demented way though.

[Seshata]

It's all fake. Smoke and mirrors. Sleight of hand. That's why it's stage magic.
Criss Angel is a very talented stage magician, but he doesn't have "real magic powers" that allow him to do the things he does. He, like all other stage magicians, are just the best at getting you to pay attention to the right hand so you don't know what the left hand is doing, so to speak.
Blaine is also a stage magician and even further away from having any sort of magic powers. He's also pretty second rate as far as magicians go.

Yup. My other half does 'stage magic' and total agreement, Blaine is not the best - he tries to do the whole 'mystery man' thing and frankly falls flat on his face. They're not that difficult 'tricks' to do.

The reason why some stage magicians make it look real is the amount of time they spend practicing - trust me, those that do card stuff, always have them with them, practice, practice that is what makes it all seem so effortless.

BB

Seshata

[DragonMom]

Blane and Criss, I couldn't tell you. But does anybody remember Rudy Coby? He had a couple TV specials several years ago. And I'm sure somebody will correct me and say it's all tricks... but seriously, there were things he could do that we could NOT figure out. Him & Copperfield. The difference is Coby tapped into something happy... Copperfield did not.

[kissesree]

Blane and Criss, I couldn't tell you. But does anybody remember Rudy Coby? He had a couple TV specials several years ago. And I'm sure somebody will correct me and say it's all tricks... but seriously, there were things he could do that we could NOT figure out. Him & Copperfield. The difference is Coby tapped into something happy... Copperfield did not.I didnt mention copperfeild, because my dad can do all of his tricks. He is a total faker.

[IvyWitch]

You know who's really really good? Darren Romeo. He sings and does magic, and he's being sponsored by Siegfried and Roy. I think he may have been in the Fantastiks at some point but I don't know for sure.

And, you know, he's hot. :thumbsup:

http://www.darrenromeo.com/index2.htm (http://www.darrenromeo.com/index2.htm)

[Janus109]

Max Maven is a mentalist. A mentalist is basically a "psychic sleight-of-hand artist". He is IMHO one the best performers out there. Criss Angel and Daivd Blane cannot even come close to Max in terms of performing. With Angel and Blane doing magic on the street, they do a lot of editing and has been known in the past to use confederates or "stooges" in some of there effects.

Maven, Angel & Blane do not claim any "paranormal powers". The only person that comes to mind that makes any claims of supernatural powers is Uri Gellar. Magicians have been able to deconstruct most of his effects and in some cases improve them. He was even able to continue his psychic/ metal bending career even after being "busted" on the Johnny Carson show about 20 years ago.

I think it's good theater rather then paranormal powers.

All the best,

rk

[Seshata]

Max Maven is a mentalist. A mentalist is basically a "psychic sleight-of-hand artist". He is IMHO one the best performers out there. Criss Angel and Daivd Blane cannot even come close to Max in terms of performing. With Angel and Blane doing magic on the street, they do a lot of editing and has been known in the past to use confederates or "stooges" in some of there effects.

Yup - Max Maven is brilliant, there are a few others but I can't get to my other half's entertainment magic bookshelf at the moment - oh David Burglass (can't remember how to spell his name) is also interesting. Totally agree with your comments about stooges etc.


Maven, Angel & Blane do not claim any "paranormal powers". The only person that comes to mind that makes any claims of supernatural powers is Uri Gellar. Magicians have been able to deconstruct most of his effects and in some cases improve them. He was even able to continue his psychic/ metal bending career even after being "busted" on the Johnny Carson show about 20 years ago.

Yup. Gellar even went to a magician's convention years ago ... His brother used to be one of his 'stooges' for the spoon bending etc (pile of spoons in tray).

Thing is, if you don't know how its done and its done well - it does look very real... Of course it doesn't stop some stage magicians being Pagan (I'm not going to 'out' them, unless they've publicised it) or having 'occult' interests.

BB

Seshata

[FaerieGothMommy]

I think almost all tv magic is just tricks - i sometimes think that some of the things blane does, is more of a mind over matter thing...

[BeigeAllen]

Do you beleve that any TV magitions have real powers, or are they all just tricks?

I ask, because I find myself questioning reality.

They aren't tricks as much as they are arts. Knowing how to levitate doesn't mean you know how to make it look believable. Knowing how to saw someone in half doesn't mean you can suspend the audience's disbelief.

Once upon a time, the arts of illusion and trickery were as much a part of a ritual as the candles, the chants, and the energy raising. They were recognized as being a special form of magic known as illusion.

So yes, they have their tricks, but they have a little something else as well, that special something that isn't learned, its inborn. Who knows, they may also have a power similar to something they create an illusion for, perfect way to hide it if they did wouldn't you agree?

[morningstar2651]

I didnt mention copperfeild, because my dad can do all of his tricks. He is a total faker.
Your dad can make the statue of liberty disappear?

I'd pay good money to see that.

[Naiad]

They are definitely all tricks, they even do the odd programme where they show you how some of the major tricks are done. I personally like Derren Brown, but he calls himself an illusiobnst and doesn't claim to have any magical/psychic powers whatsoever. But he does a very very good job of manipulating people into believing he does. www.derrrenbrown.co.uk

[MysticWitch]

Chris Angel and David Blaine have already admitted its all trickery, but chris angel is like OMG!

[MelMullooly]

some of the stunts are real they make no sense but are real but they dont have magick powers the tricks are a stage act. If they had that much power dont you think theyd be using it for something other then a tv show?

[WokeUpDead]

Some of it is tricks, some of it is just being able to ignore the pain for certain stunts. I still don't have any idea how they do some of those though.

[WokeUpDead]

some of the stunts are real they make no sense but are real but they dont have magick powers the tricks are a stage act. If they had that much power dont you think theyd be using it for something other then a tv show?
Would they really be able to make more money doing something else?

[ravenhecate999]

:rant: if they were 4 real, they would understand that the power the have is a gift and we wouldnt see them exploiting retarded people

[Fluoxetine]

Stage and performance magic is the oldest form of art and entertainment. You just have to know part of it to see where the wires are to see through it.

[RunningRiot]

The fish hook thing, I don't think it should be considered magic at all. There are lots of people in my area who've been suspending themselves like that for years, and could easily do what is done on the TV shows.

I've only seen Criss Angel shows, I don't know if it's real or not.

[Xentor]

:rant: if they were 4 real, they would understand that the power the have is a gift and we wouldnt see them exploiting retarded people

Retarded people? You mean the millions who like to be entertained and really don't give a darn whether it's real or fake? I'd hardly call them retarded. I consider myself among that group, and I am an entertainment magician as well as a spiritual magician.

Keep your insults to yourself, if you please.

[Xentor]

The fish hook thing, I don't think it should be considered magic at all. There are lots of people in my area who've been suspending themselves like that for years, and could easily do what is done on the TV shows.

I've only seen Criss Angel shows, I don't know if it's real or not.

It's all real. Define "fake"?

I'm an entertainment magician. I can explain almost every magical performance by means of a trick. That doesn't mean that every magical performance must be a trick, necessarily. It only means it can be a trick.

But even when it's a trick, it's real. If it weren't real, it couldn't happen. And it does happen, so it must be real.

Perhaps the problem is, that what is actually happening isn't what you expect to happen?

[LadyTrucker]

Count me as another who agrees with the whole "slight of hand" stage magic. Chris Angel is VERY good at what he does, but there is nothing "magical" about it, it is purely a show! (And a very entertaining one at that!)

[soul_searcher]

Well I think the majority of it are magic tricks, but I do think that David Blaine has some powers. I am not the gullable type or one to believe whatever I am told, but I really do think that Blaine has some powers. I am not saying that all of his things are real magic/powers, but some could be. I was watching him on TV one day and my mom said he reminded her of a Shaman. I of course, have no idea about Shaman's but I had looked him up and it said something about him studying a Shaman person or something. Again, this is what I read, but I don't know if it is true.

Anyway other things are just stunts that have nothing at all to do with magic/powers. Some of David Blaine's stunts are true tests of the human body, but not magic. He prepares himself for such things and trains intensively. I would be more impressed if he did them without training and could last. Not only that, but there are medical "miracles" that occur every single day.

As for Criss Angel, I am not at all impressed with him. If you watch him closely, you can spot some of the dodgy things he does. For instance, the one where he stands in front of the "brick" wall and has his friend "hit him with the car", they even circle what appears to be him going under the car, but if you look just beside that, you can see the real him going to the side of the car. It is right there in front of your eyes and all you have to do is look. He has also been known to use his assistants/helpers, etc. for tricks. You can see where he messes up in just about all of his tricks if you pay close enough attention. I have tried checkout out David Blaine closely but I can't ever spot any faults, although that isn't to say there aren't any.

Anyway, at the end of the day some are entertaining to watch and that is what matters in the end. (Sorry for the long post)

[Old Witch]

They're just stage magicians...tricks...

[asheir]

I votet Tricks because I hope that those are tricks... The freak me out... Scare the crap out of me...
That's why I don't watch it... I'd dream about too...

[ValD]

All these stage and TV magicians use tricks and manipulation - none of them have any paranormal powers. It's just meant for entertainment - same as any other entertainers. For instance, when you see an impressionist imitating some poilitician, you don't really (I hope!) believe that the impressionist has physically changed himself into the politician?
If magicians were really using paranormal powers they could make themselves rich by teleporting money out of banks and so on and wouldn't need to work at any TV shows!

[Liberty]

It's makes you wonder.
Maybe they are, maybe they're not.
I know Angel has a video of "how to's" but then again maybe knowing how to do stage magic is a cover up.... hehe I don't know, either way they're nice to look at.

[Liberty]

All these stage and TV magicians use tricks and manipulation - none of them have any paranormal powers. It's just meant for entertainment - same as any other entertainers. For instance, when you see an impressionist imitating some poilitician, you don't really (I hope!) believe that the impressionist has physically changed himself into the politician?
If magicians were really using paranormal powers they could make themselves rich by teleporting money out of banks and so on and wouldn't need to work at any TV shows!

Yes, true.
But missing money is missing money, anything lost will be noticed.
People are gonna wonder why a person who doesn't work for a living and wasn't born into money has so much or where they even get it from.

Eventually the Feds. will link the two and two, probably won't figure how the person did it but I'm sure they'll be keeping a close eye on them until they figure it out.

[MankyCat]

I've worked with several magicians, some better known than others.

The tricks on tv are just tricks (I'm not talking about suspending oneself by hooks and such... that's a different thing all together). There is a reason the camera angles are a certain way and a reason why they cut to "different angles" at certain points.

I have less respect for tv magicians than I do for stage magicians... unless the tv magician doesn't have any "cutting to different angles" and such.

Most of the tricks, I learned how to do, so I can spot them pretty easily. And any I can't figure out, I ask one of the magicians I know.

[redbint]

As someone has already stated 'Smoke and Mirrors' you're just tricked into seeing or not seeing something. It's all psycological!!! (I think I spelt that right!?) now ya see me now ya don't! lol

[Darbla]

Has anyone seen that Chris Angel (I think it's him anyway) vid where he saws a girl in half on a park bench with several other people looking on? It's freaky! If anyone wants it, shoot me an email. I want someone else to watch it who can find the tricks in it. I KNOW it's got to be fake but it sure looks amazing.

Darbla

[Xentor]

The tricks on tv are just tricks (I'm not talking about suspending oneself by hooks and such... that's a different thing all together). There is a reason the camera angles are a certain way and a reason why they cut to "different angles" at certain points.

I have less respect for tv magicians than I do for stage magicians... unless the tv magician doesn't have any "cutting to different angles" and such.
I resent those remarks. Sure, there's a lot of bad magicians out there, and there's bound to be some on television as well. But you may want to look up Paul Daniels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daniels) and Tommy Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Cooper), and you'll realise very quickly that convincing tv magic is an art in its own right.


Most of the tricks, I learned how to do, so I can spot them pretty easily. And any I can't figure out, I ask one of the magicians I know.
Oh yeah, because it feels so nice to take the mystery out of the experience. :rolleyes:

[Xentor]

All these stage and TV magicians use tricks and manipulation - none of them have any paranormal powers.
Really now? All and none? Can you prove that?


If magicians were really using paranormal powers they could make themselves rich by teleporting money out of banks and so on and wouldn't need to work at any TV shows!
So paranormal means teleportation? Maybe you need an insight in what is considered paranormal.


Paranormal describes subjects studied under parapsychology, which deals with psychical phenomena like telepathy, extra-sensory perception, psychokinesis, and survival studies like reincarnation, ghosts, and hauntings. However, as a broader category, the paranormal sometimes describes subjects outside the scope of parapsychology, including anomalous aspects of UFOs, some creatures that fall under the scope of cryptozoology, purported phenomena surrounding the Bermuda Triangle, and many other non-psychical subjects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

You guessed it: that includes most magical behaviours your fellow community members right here on this site are involved in.

Now can you prove that none of those entertainment magicians are real magicians? Give me your best shot.

It isn't even possible to prove that none of the entertainment magician uses real magic on stage, even if they'd be able to use it off-stage. Go ahead and try.

[MankyCat]

Has anyone seen that Chris Angel (I think it's him anyway) vid where he saws a girl in half on a park bench with several other people looking on? It's freaky! If anyone wants it, shoot me an email. I want someone else to watch it who can find the tricks in it. I KNOW it's got to be fake but it sure looks amazing.

Darbla


Look around online or look at some books on the subject. Then watch whether they ever cut away to a different angle. Even if you think you see the same coat on the person... if you don't see their face, likely they aren't the same individual as in the previous shot.

[MankyCat]

I resent those remarks. Sure, there's a lot of bad magicians out there, and there's bound to be some on television as well. But you may want to look up Paul Daniels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daniels) and Tommy Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Cooper), and you'll realise very quickly that convincing tv magic is an art in its own right.

Oh yeah, because it feels so nice to take the mystery out of the experience. :rolleyes:


Actually, I don't feel it does take the mystery out of it. Instead, I can actually APPRECIATE the level of skill certain magicians have. I can see how convincing they are (or not). Being that I had to learn a lot of tricks, I learned how to really appreciate technique and skill. There are times a person is so good, they can still trick you even when you know how it's done.

Learning how to bellydance doesn't make someone lose the beauty of a dancer with good control and technique. It helps them appreciate it more because they KNOW how hard the movements are. It's the same thing with magic tricks.

As for being convincing on tv. Every magician I've talked to agrees that it's EASIER to fool people on tv than it is on the stage, for the exact reasons I mentioned.

A good dialog or debate is fine, but sarcasm is unnecessary.

[covenofkeys]

no rule against sarcasm i didnt think {might be wrong though} but i then shouldve been modded a dozen times on that then, cos im just a totally sarky bitch sometimes! lol
anyway...on with this thread...and no i dont actually have anything more to add at this time..lol
~walks away to grab a coffee~

[MankyCat]

no rule against sarcasm i didnt think {might be wrong though} but i then shouldve been modded a dozen times on that then, cos im just a totally sarky bitch sometimes! lol
anyway...on with this thread...and no i dont actually have anything more to add at this time..lol
~walks away to grab a coffee~

Heh. Never said there was a rule. Just that it doesn't help the discussion. It doesn't make anyone look good (especially the one using it). I've gotten to the point of responding only to the first message from a person who was sarcastic to address the issues they mentioned, and possibly stating that any further will be disregarded because I don't see the point of responding to that sort of thing. To me, it's a waste of time to deal with comments of that nature.

(Watching my words to obey MW rules.)

[puchidevil]

I kind of prefer the mystery of not knowing how they do it :)

When i know how they do it - i always miss the trick because i am concentrating too hard on spotting the 'sleight' lol

[covenofkeys]

:lol::cheers:

[LadyCelt]

I've only seen Chris Angel onces. The card stuff seems like the stage magician stuff. Some thigns seemed real. I just didn't get a good vibe from him when he got into peple's minds etc it didn't feel right.

To me, David Blaine is more stunts and stage magic.

[Hærfest Leah]

I like to watch Chris Angel if I can catch him on but I'd say he's like the rest, no real powers, just very good tricks.

[WhoseLineBabygirl]

i think Criss Angel is pretty real half of the tricks he does i have no idea how to explain them myself

[Xentor]

Well of course it's real... it's happening, isn't it? We can see it, can't we? Unless you're all figments of my imagination it must be real.

Of course there's a different question... not whether it's real or not, but whether we can explain the method behind the effect.

[Aidron]

I disbelieve that any of them are doing something more than sleight of hand, distraction, and so forth.

Though on the whole, I tend to avoid these types of magicians. They often are flashy and flamboyant, both of which are traits that tend to make me want to physically maim someone. :2G:

Kudos to their talent though.

[Fairy_Princess]

It's just tricks. At least from the guys you listed in the poll.

[Glory]

They're real. If they can make anyone believe, anyone at all, they're real. They deliver illusion, and that's certainly a real talent.

[Liberty]

The new season of Criss Angel, the episode where he walks down the side of a building with no strings (or so they say). I really wanna know how he does that.

[Fairy_Princess]

The new season of Criss Angel, the episode where he walks down the side of a building with no strings (or so they say). I really wanna know how he does that.

Radioactive spider venom


They're real. If they can make anyone believe, anyone at all, they're real. They deliver illusion, and that's certainly a real talent.

So verbally/written lies = bad
Visual flashy lies = magic.

Got it.

[Glory]

So verbally/written lies = bad
Visual flashy lies = magic.

Got it.

LOL. I never said if it was good or bad, and I definitely didn't call it magic. I called it illusion, which is a talent. So is lying.

[Liberty]

LOL. I never said if it was good or bad, and I definitely didn't call it magic. I called it illusion, which is a talent. So is lying.

Technically it's not really lying since most of these people tell the audience/viewers that what they're doing is an illusion (that's why they have the warning notice before a show ). Lying would be if they purposly hid the truth and tried to mask it as something that it's not.

[Glory]

Technically it's not really lying since most of these people tell the audience/viewers that what they're doing is an illusion (that's why they have the warning notice before a show ). Lying would be if they purposly hid the truth and tried to mask it as something that it's not.

I never said it was lying. I just said that lying and illusion are both talents.

[Liberty]

I never said it was lying. I just said that lying and illusion are both talents.

Sorry that wasn't directed to you.
I meant to write it in general but forgot I had clicked the quote button.

[Glory]

Sorry that wasn't directed to you.
I meant to write it in general but forgot I had clicked the quote button.

Rightyo, no problem. :) But I do agree with your point. I think people get caught up with the idea that it's fake just because it's not unexplainable.

[Fairy_Princess]

Whether or not it's fake shouldn't have anything to with it's explainability.

It can be real magic and be explained. It can be real magic and unexplained.

It can even be an explainable or an explainable illusion.

The question is are these men Trickmasters/Illusionists or true Wizards.

I believe they are simply showmen doing tricks and illusions, same as Copperfield and Blackstone (who died 10 years ago) before them.

[Glory]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

I don't know. I do see the difference between magic and illusion, I'm just not sure if I can call someone "fake" just because it's illusion instead of magic, whether explainable or not. I never really saw them as "magic users" to begin with.

[HedwigHarfang]

I'm surprised you think stage magicians just use "tricks" when powerful magicians, clairvoyants and mediums would all know how they do it.

I've seen shop signs change shape right before my eyes and if it is possible for a spiritualist to use such powerful magickal illusions, then it is possible to create any other kind of illusion using techniques such as astral projection, spirit manifestations, and access to spirit guides and angelic magick. As a physical medium, I regularly see my hands change shape and so it is not just stage magicians who can do these kinds of things. Being open to spirit makes a whole lot of things possible that are thought to be the preserve of science fiction or fantasy novels, and while we are hardly talking Harry Potter style magick here, it is amazing what you can do once you are in touch with your spirit guides and the Other Side.

[Lady_Door]

I personally prefer the Amazing Jonathan. He's pretty amazing. :rollingla
There are tons of websites out there dedicated to debunking Angel and Blaine.

[Liberty]

What if there's a real one among them who does seemingly explainable stage magic as a cover up?