Sicily invasion 1943

[treefae]

does anbody have any good info on this?thanks

[Cain]

Hmm, what in particular did you want to know? I know about some of the background footsy with the Cosa Nostra, but not much in the technical sense of the invasion plans and execution.

[treefae]

sure what do you got.any facts would be great,thanks.

[Cain]

Basically, when Mussolini came to power he dealt very harshy with the Mafia and nearly destroyed them within the mainland, imprisoning them and breaking up the various families. This didnt go down too well among the immigrant Italians in the US, as it can be imagined. Its not gospel, but the rumour is that the Americans made a deal with Luciano (who was currently 10 years into his 30-50 year sentence) to help with the invasion. The operations casualties were surprisingly small for the Allies, despite the landings been scattered by strong winds, although some attribute that to Italian partisans directed by the Cosa Nostra.

Either way, it was made good use of and the scattered forces did what all good elite units do when in small numbers and behind enemy lines, cause confusion and ambush patrols. The British practically sailed into the Syracruse ports unopposed (also attributed to the Cosa Nostra) and the only real resistance was made against the Americans, which Patton dealt with using reserve Parachute units.

Patton proceeded to take Palermo while the British has to change routes to capture Messina and avoid ever growing resistance. The fall of Palermo caused the coup which removed Mussolini from power and a near comical race between the British and Americans to see who could take Messina first, the Americans winning out.

[omar]

Cain what you say may be true but Patton was a General of Armoured tanks, not paratroopers.

[Nacken]

That is the US version of things. The invasion of Sicily was named operation Husky. It was the largest amphibious landing up to that time. Patton is near deified in the USA. Really, he was favoured by being allowed to take the easy route. He obstructed Montgomery and caused harm to British/US relations. He captured Palermo against orders, although it did cause Mussolini to be deposed. There was hard fighting in Sicily and mainland Italy, but it was left to the Canadian and British troops to deal with. The US army only save the day in the Hollywood version. I've read the versions written by US historians and they deviate so far from the truth that they constitute propoganda. They slander Britain and downplay anyone else's part in the eventual victory.

[treefae]

thanks everyone for responses.Nacken which books would be closer to the truth that you know of?

[Cain]

Cain what you say may be true but Patton was a General of Armoured tanks, not paratroopers.

This is true, but I thought he was the overall operational commander for the US forces in Operation Husky?

[Cain]

That is the US version of things. The invasion of Sicily was named operation Husky. It was the largest amphibious landing up to that time. Patton is near deified in the USA. Really, he was favoured by being allowed to take the easy route. He obstructed Montgomery and caused harm to British/US relations. He captured Palermo against orders, although it did cause Mussolini to be deposed. There was hard fighting in Sicily and mainland Italy, but it was left to the Canadian and British troops to deal with. The US army only save the day in the Hollywood version. I've read the versions written by US historians and they deviate so far from the truth that they constitute propoganda. They slander Britain and downplay anyone else's part in the eventual victory.

That wouldnt surprise me, although I wasnt aware of its full extent. Patton was very much into the "glory of country" business, its what made him try to capture Messina before the British.

[Nacken]

thanks everyone for responses.Nacken which books would be closer to the truth that you know of?

I would suggest that you look at British authored books on operation Husky. I find American historians to have a very alien viewpoint, very skewed and unbalanced in general. You can also read ones written in the USA for comparison, but you will find that they slander Montgomery for instance. Montgomery is controversial. Don't get me wrong. He wasn't the best general ever. But books in the USA write as though Patton did everything right and Montgomery was cowardly and incompetent. Patton nicknamed Montgomery "the Rabbit" and historians have followed his lead. Montgomery was a set piece general. He planned very well, and trained his troops well. But wasn't as strong at improvising. Both were offered the decoded material from Ultra, but were told that if they read it, they were not allowed to go near the front lines and risk capture. Monty turned it down because he knew he needed to work from the front lines. Perhaps this was a mistake, but he did. Patton accepted it but ignored orders and went to the front lines whenever he wanted. Patton used to information to discover where the German troops were, and went where they weren't. I believe the strategy is called "Hit them where they aint." He moved into where the German occupational forces were weak, leaving Montgomery to cover his flanks and clean up the messes. Despite their rivalry, and the hostility of historians from the USA, Patton would have been cut to pieces without Montgomery to back him up-- at least that is my opinion. I'm not sure if Patton would have been a team player enough to cover Monty's flank if Montgomery had gotten out in front. I'd say read from a variety of sources and make up your own mind. Just don't limit yourself to books written in one country and be properly skeptical.
For a worm's eye view from a Canadian soldier read' Letters from my Father' and 'And No Birds Sang' by Farley Mowat. You probably know Farley Mowat from his books like 'Never Cry Wolf', 'The People of the Deer', 'A Whale for the Killing', etc. Mowat was a junior officer in the 2nd Battalion, the Hasty Pees. He was the only man in the Canadian army to survive the whole Italian campaign. You've probably never heard of the Battle of Ortona, but it has been compared to the Battle of Stalingrad.
This isn't about Sicily, but to give you an idea about the realities I have to say this. The contributions of Canadian troops has never been acknowledged in the least by the USA. Apparently the USA won the war all by themselves. The reality is that we Canadians were always given the dirty jobs like liberating the Low Lands for instance. The Netherlands and Belgium are low lying lands. Most of it was swamp when the German troops blew up the dykes. Simmons, the Canadian General, had to invent a new kind of fighting, Poldor Warfare. ( It is difficult to slog through swamps and machine guns to capture fortified emplacements.) Simmonds' troops succeeded, but at a horrific cost. Just to give you some idea of things in the Canadian army, my dad lost 2 brothers in WW2. 4 more were wounded and permanent disabled. Another was captured and in prison camp for 16 months. My father, the baby of the family, was the only one who came through unscathed. Casualties were very heavy because Eisenhower thought of Canadians as cannon fodder. Canadians don't vote in elections in the USA.
Incidentally Farley Mowat, who is over 80 years old, and all of 5ft.5in. is considered to be dangerous to the peace of the USA and is banned from ever entering the country.
Sorry if I pontificated and ranted. It just came out.

[omar]

I think Montgomery got a raw deal in America. HE & Patton was the two best Alliad Generals. General "Ike" was the one that sold out the UK & America to the USSR.

[ap Dafydd]

For a worm's eye view from a Canadian soldier read' Letters from my Father' and 'And No Birds Sang' by Farley Mowat. You probably know Farley Mowat from his books like 'Never Cry Wolf', 'The People of the Deer', 'A Whale for the Killing', etc. Mowat was a junior officer in the 2nd Battalion, the Hasty Pees. He was the only man in the Canadian army to survive the whole Italian campaign. You've probably never heard of the Battle of Ortona, but it has been compared to the Battle of Stalingrad.


Another literary bit worth checking out is Hamish Henderson's song http://mysongbook.de/msb/songs/f/fawelsic.html

gwyn eich byd

Ffred