question: Celts in european mainland

[Myrica]

I was looking for some information about celts in the area I live, but almost all information (even in books in the local library) is about the irish celts and their mythology and pantheon.
I know that the there was a lot of diffrence between all celtic tribes so my question was if someone could help me with some specific information about this? The specific area I need is in belgium, more particulary near brussels, and I want to know most anything I can find to know about them, there way of living, their local pantheon, etc anything that we still know about them today.

[Shanti]

Start by looking up the iron age for the general area of interest!!

The time line (the iron age) of the Celts, is basically of the same pattern all over. Warring people, aggressive and tribal.


The difference between tribes was caused by location. The food was different, terrain different and such. So the cultures varied but because of the locations variables. The basics were pretty uniform..multiple gods, animistic, sacrifices, clan rules and loyalties.

In fact you can learn a lot just studying the history of the iron age all thought the regions of the European continent!

And Celt is a modern word.

[Xentor]

Hi Myrica!

Does this help?
http://www.anwb.nl/vakantie/buitenland/bestemmingen/land_uitgebreid.jsp?land=be


Geschiedenis
De eerste 'Belgen' zouden zich rond 500 voor Chr. hebben laten zien. Het waren Kelten die zich hadden vermengd met Germanen. In het gebied woonden ook Galliërs, de onvermengde Kelten. Ceasar onderwierp in 57 voor Chr. de strijdlustige plaatselijke stammen van Belgisch Gallië. In de eeuwen die volgden, trokken Vandalen en andere Germaanse volken, zoals de Franken, door de streek. Ze verwoestten alles wat de Romeinen hadden opgebouwd. De invloed van de Franken nam daarna toe. In de 7e eeuw begon het christendom zijn opmars. Drie eeuwen later kwam het land binnen de invloedsfeer van het Duitse Heilige Roomse Rijk.

[Xentor]

Quoting from M.T.Hooker (1999) "The History of Holland", p.70-71


The Rhine River formed the boundary between the Celtic tribes to the south and the Germanic tribes to the north. (...)
The Belgian tribes south of the Rhine were separated from the rest of the Celtic Gaul, still farther to the south, by the woods of the Ardennes. To the north of the Rhine, the Germanic tribe known as the Batavians lived on an island in the delta of the Rhine, in the present-day province of Gelderland. (...)
Belgium was named for one of the tribes (Belgae) of mixed Celtic and Germanic origin that inhabited the area between the rivers Marne and Seine in the south and the Rhine in the north. (...) They spoke the same language as the Celts of greater Gaul to the south but were much less civilized than the other Celts.
(...)
Under Augustus in 15 B.C., the territory of the Belgian tribes was designated the Roman province of Gallica Belgica. This was the outer edge of the empire (...). the Roman road from Cologne (Germany) to Boulogne (...) became the language border that now splits Belgium. To the north of it, they speak (...) Flemish (...), and to the south of it, they speak French.

[Xentor]

More references (I hope you can read Dutch):
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelten

Here's the English version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celt

Ooh, and also found this:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgen
This is nice because it uses an old spelling of Bruxelles: "Presles"

[Hærfest Leah]

I was looking for some information about celts in the area I live, but almost all information (even in books in the local library) is about the irish celts and their mythology and pantheon.
I know that the there was a lot of diffrence between all celtic tribes so my question was if someone could help me with some specific information about this? The specific area I need is in belgium, more particulary near brussels, and I want to know most anything I can find to know about them, there way of living, their local pantheon, etc anything that we still know about them today.


Good topic, my grandfather (a Verheyden) came from Antwerp Belgium so I'm interested in this area also.

A not so bad place with some info is here on the Belgae since that what they were.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgae

So I guess we need to learn about/ search for info on the Belgae.

[omar]

It is my under standing that the Welch or Brythons came to Englyne from Flanders. That the Flemish are Celts or Gauls. The Celts & Gauls arrived in Europe 200yrs. before the German,Teutonic,Goths & other related tribes. The Huns in 405ad.

[Xentor]

It seems "Celt", "Kelt" and "Gaul" are the same word.

Not only the Welsh and the Britons came from the European mainland, so did the Angles and the Saxons. They all travelled through Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and France before settling in the UK.

I don't know about the Irish and the Scots. Perhaps they came from the Scandinavian countries?

[Nacken]

The Germanics and Celts are cousins but not the same. A few years ago they did a genetic study of England. They compared the genetic markers of people from Wales (Descendants of the original celts), people from southern England, and people from modern Saxony and Fresia where the Angles and Saxon invaders came from. Historians had assumed that the English of southern England would be the descendants of both Celts and Anglo-Saxons. What they found is that the English were genetically almost identical to the people from Germany, sharing very few genetic markers with the Welsh. In other words, the Anglo-Saxons did not settle down and intermarry with the Romano-Celtic tribes. They killed them off and replaced them. It also means that these geneticists saw significant differences between Germans and Celts genetically at least. I would assume that the Irish and Welsh are genetically closer together than the English and Welsh, or the English and Irish. I haven't seen any studies comparing areas in which the continental Celts lived comparing them to the modern Irish, Scandanavian or Germans though.
The thread is more concerned with culture and religion I suppose but genetic studies would show where their modern descendants live now.

[dragoncrone]

...can be interesting. However its biggest drawback is that the information there is furnished by contributors, who sometimes possess more enthusiasm than factual knowledge. I tend to double and triple-check data that I find there.
Cheers!:wave:

[blackroseivy]

Just a quick note: "Celt" is sorta not really so modern. "Keltoi" was invented (or at least recorded) by the Greeks to describe those tribes.

[Hærfest Leah]

The Germanics and Celts are cousins but not the same. A few years ago they did a genetic study of England. They compared the genetic markers of people from Wales (Descendants of the original celts), people from southern England, and people from modern Saxony and Fresia where the Angles and Saxon invaders came from. Historians had assumed that the English of southern England would be the descendants of both Celts and Anglo-Saxons. What they found is that the English were genetically almost identical to the people from Germany, sharing very few genetic markers with the Welsh. In other words, the Anglo-Saxons did not settle down and intermarry with the Romano-Celtic tribes. They killed them off and replaced them. It also means that these geneticists saw significant differences between Germans and Celts genetically at least. I would assume that the Irish and Welsh are genetically closer together than the English and Welsh, or the English and Irish. I haven't seen any studies comparing areas in which the continental Celts lived comparing them to the modern Irish, Scandanavian or Germans though.
The thread is more concerned with culture and religion I suppose but genetic studies would show where their modern descendants live now.

Ya know I just happened to come aross this article your speaking of today and now I don't know how to find it again. It was on the BBC site.

[ap Dafydd]

Not only the Welsh and the Britons came from the European mainland, so did the Angles and the Saxons. They all travelled through Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and France before settling in the UK.

I don't know about the Irish and the Scots. Perhaps they came from the Scandinavian countries?

Many modern theorists would say that the Celts in Western Europe didn't "come from" anywhere, but were the native inhabitants who became Celtic when the culture came along.

The Scots came from Ireland, though, and Gaelicised Scotland.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Myrica]

I understand dutch its my main language, and I also understand french.
I think you all provided a lot of usefull information so I'll try to read and look up more things this weekend.
Thank you all for the replies :)
and I think wikipedia is quite good, don't forget that most information on the web isn't checked by anyone, and since you can report wrong information on wikipedia it could be one of the most reliabale websites :)

[omar]

The Celts was the original inhabitants of Europe? I read that they came from the Altai Mts. of central asia?