Coven Drama

[PEM]

I'm not sure this is where this should go...if needs to be moved...that's fine.

I'm in a group of 7 women. Much of the time we're not all in the same place at the same time.

We're getting together tomorrow to discuss just what the heck has been wrong with everyone. I say everyone...I really mean 2 or 3 members. Constantly nit-picking and irritating each other. One of them just happens to be the former HPS.

The current HPS and I are getting together to work on the issue before everyone shows up. I'm still one of the new people...having joined last summer...but she and I are really close and she looks to me for advice...(I feel really honored by that)...anyway...I'd like to do something in the room we're going to be in that will help foster honesty and respectfulness.

For the record, being on the phone with one of them...I'm about ready to start throwing things. lol

Anyway...Thanks in advance.

ETA: I realize I didn't ask any questions...see how flustered I am?

What I meant was...can someone help me?

[ShadowcatX]

I'm not in a coven so I'm probably not the best person to ask about this, but seems like calling them out in front of the entire coven is just going to put them on the defensive and start more hard feelings. Personally I'd suggest the HPS take each coven member (including those who aren't "problem members") aside and talk to them individually and privately, letting them know whatever is said is said on the condition of anonymity and ask them what the problem is. After all that has been done, then together, she should explain the problem as well as she can (w/o betraying who said what about whom) and work on it from there.

[PEM]

I'm not in a coven so I'm probably not the best person to ask about this, but seems like calling them out in front of the entire coven is just going to put them on the defensive and start more hard feelings. Personally I'd suggest the HPS take each coven member (including those who aren't "problem members") aside and talk to them individually and privately, letting them know whatever is said is said on the condition of anonymity and ask them what the problem is. After all that has been done, then together, she should explain the problem as well as she can (w/o betraying who said what about whom) and work on it from there.


I agree...unfortunately...this has been an ongoing problem...and it's now a coven problem. To the point of...we're going to have to ask some people to leave...or completely call it quits.

But you're right. People have been talked to individually...and...they all make excuses and whine and grrrr...

Regardless of what is said tomorrow...it's going to facilitate a much-needed change.
I'm rambling...and thinking "out loud" Thanks for your help. ;)

[morningstar2651]

I'm not sure this is where this should go...if needs to be moved...that's fine.

I'm in a group of 7 women. Much of the time we're not all in the same place at the same time.

We're getting together tomorrow to discuss just what the heck has been wrong with everyone. I say everyone...I really mean 2 or 3 members. Constantly nit-picking and irritating each other. One of them just happens to be the former HPS.

The current HPS and I are getting together to work on the issue before everyone shows up. I'm still one of the new people...having joined last summer...but she and I are really close and she looks to me for advice...(I feel really honored by that)...anyway...I'd like to do something in the room we're going to be in that will help foster honesty and respectfulness.

For the record, being on the phone with one of them...I'm about ready to start throwing things. lol

Anyway...Thanks in advance.

ETA: I realize I didn't ask any questions...see how flustered I am?

What I meant was...can someone help me?
Read this (http://home.mn.rr.com/bichaunt/Trolls/Troll04.html).

[Jenett]

I second the link recommendation.

In practical terms, you may not be able to save this situation, if it's been multiple people over a span of multiple months. However, being accusatory isn't going to help, either.

First, is there any particular reason that people might be more nitpicky? Are there lots of changes in these people's personal lives? Could they be feeling defensive or insecure about their place in the group for some reason? None of this is reason for nastiness - but it should give you an idea if the situation could potentially change for the better.

What things need to change in order for people to be comfortable continuing? You obviously can't come up with a total list, and compromise is a good idea when possible, but there's probably some stuff that'd be generally helpful.

As far as prepping the room: there's plenty of mundane things you can do. Are there comfortable places to sit? Can people talk to each other easily without straining (being too far away, too many noisy things nearby, etc?)

You could pick a pleasant or relaxing smell that would help relax people (off the top of my head, I'd suggest either lavender or vanilla: could be a candle, could be a few drops of vanilla essence in water, simmering on the stove, could be incense, whatever works for you all.) Scent is a really strong emotional hook for a lot of people, use it to your advantage. Baking bread is a really strong emotional resonance, too.

Magically, I don't know that you want to fiddle too much, other than starting with a neutral space. After all, if the problem really isn't fixable, you don't want these people still around in 6 months, right? It'd be better to do a thorough banishing of anything negative, blessing the space, etc. before they got there, but then let things go as they will.

One other thing to think about: is it important to you, the HPs, or anyone else that any parting be handled a certain way? (Amicably, etc. what are you willing to commit to offering...) It can be worth thinking through those things in advance, so you're not caught flatfooted.

[Akhkharu Asgard]

I have never done the Coven thing or anything but I would think if the people cannot act responsible or respectful, they should be made aware of it and given a chance to get their act together and if they cannot, maybe they should find a new coven. I see no reason why this should not be treated like any other interpersonal communication or relationship of any kind, cause it sort of is!

[PEM]

OMG. That link is fabulous. lol Thanks so much...it took me a minute to wonder if you meant I was a troll. I was fully prepared to weep openly. (Ok...not really)...

I think y'all have helped me help the HPS come to a decision.

Thank you for that. Tomorrow is going to be very interesting.
Thanks again,
Jenn

[PEM]

Jenett, thank you very much. Those are some great tips.

I like the idea of the scents...putting everyone in a relaxed, calm place...

Anyway...thanks again. :)

[Ben Gruagach]

My first thought was that there needs to be some discussion about the point of the group -- whoever is going to facilitate the meeting (and that doesn't have to be a HPS or anything, just a person who is going to fill the role of facilitator) should try to summarize the basic problem and then ask the group to brainstorm how to face the issue and overcome it. Get people to commit to making the group work. Those who aren't willing to commit to making the group work should seriously be asked to think about why they are in the group.

The group might be too entrenched in the destructive patterns, but identifying those problems and giving the group a chance to face the fact they are not helping the group itself to grow might be just the kick-in-the-pants it needs to get back on track. Part of the problem though might be that people aren't clear about what "on track" means, or whether the individuals are committed to working to get back "on track."

It might help to start researching group dynamics, how to keep a group running and healthy. Here are a few that come to mind:

"Covencraft" by Amber K. (An excellent book!)
"Truth or Dare" by Starhawk. (Has some good suggestions for different ways groups can operate.)
"A Circle of Men" by Bill Kauth. (Meant as a handbook for setting up and running a men's consciousness-raising group, but the methods in it work for any close-knit or spirituality type of group.)
"Creating Community Anywhere" by Carolyn R. Shaffer & Kristin Anundsen. (A manual about nurturing healthy communities.)
"Spiritual Mentoring" by Judy Harrow. (Really meant as a guidebook for those who are preparing for leadership roles in the Pagan community -- but has lots of good ideas about how to help a spiritual community become healthy.)

Healthy and lasting groups can and do function in a variety of ways (not all are hierarchical.) But it does seem that ones which do best are ones which have clear guidelines about what the group is there to do, and the members know and commit to those guidelines.

[brymble]

this kind of thing is actually precisely the reason why i'm solitary.

[Astara Seague]

I'd say find a new coven, I know it sounds drastic but how can you all work together if your constantly on each others case?

[morningstar2651]

Ben's advice is very good. I know that at least one of the books he recommended was on my Amazon suggested book list - now it's on my wish list.

[Lunacie]

this kind of thing is actually precisely the reason why i'm solitary.

I'd guess that we only hear about the ones that are having problems and we never hear about the multitude of groups and circles and covens that get along well and enjoy working and doing rituals with each other. I love being part of a group (it's not a traditional coven).

[Ben Gruagach]

There are groups that last and are healthy. The group I'm in now does pretty well. And when I lived in Phoenix Arizona I was a member of a group there that was also pretty healthy (and is still going strong).

Don't let the stories about the bad groups fool you into thinking that they're all like that.

[morningstar2651]

People rarely vent or request advice about how to fix healthy covens. :p

[PEM]

That is very true...about not speaking of the positive enough.

Last night went...as typically as it could. Platitudes and submissive stances...nothing was resolved.

I'm meeting with another group this weekend. And I'm actually moving June of 07...so...it's not permanent here.

Thanks for your help...I really appreciate all the thoughts on the matter. :)
Blessings,
J