Witches in WWII

[Dawa Lhamo]

I think there were witches pre-Gardner, but not wiccan, i've heard that the Nazi's and the Allies used occult groups (and the nazi's officially used witches) in their war, is this true? (this would also show that witches aren't all fluffy, as anyone who works for the nazi's deserves what they get). In Paths: Wicca, David19 wrote this query, and I thought it might need a thread of its own.

From Bedknobs and Broomsticks to Lammas Night, there's no real shortage of stories regarding the activities of witches during WWII. However, I'd like to look at what can be proven.

It is my understanding that we can pretty clearly make a link between Nazism and the occult. Several high-ranking officers (Himmler, etc.) were involved in occult groups. http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=95711&highlight=nazi+occult

I believe it is also documented the use of astrologers on both sides of the war.

And the symbols of pre-Christian Germanic culture were at least commandeered for Nazi purposes (swastika, sowelo).

And I have read of certain claims by British occultists (incl. Dion Fortune) as having participated in magical workings against Hitler/the Nazis.

The "founder"? of my own Craft tradition is said to have claimed to have taken part in a "Grand Cone of Power" (he was at least in the right time and place, but I have no evidence to verify the claim) to repel Hitler.

So, what can we say definitively about these stories? Certainly there were magicians in both England and Germany (Golden Dawn, OTO, etc.), and it's not a leap to suggest that British magicians might very well have done magical workings to protect their shores from attack/invasion (I certainly would have).

But what do we know about the level of organization? What do we know about the nature of their magical practice (ceremonial, folk, witchcraft)?

These are all questions I'm dying to have answered. ^_^ Has anyone here researched this at all?

Tashi delek!
Dawa Lhamo

[Paracelsus]

Okay - for the Nazi side, I would recommend a quick perusal of Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke's seminal "The occult roots of nazism". As far as the UK side is concerned, many of the stories of the Cones of power raised against Hitler (as they were against Boney) are of dubious historicity. There were rumours during the war of occult elements of british intelligence making efforts against the nazis (lampooned by Evelyn Waugh in his Sword of Honour Trilogy), but again, there is no evidence.

[Zephyrstorm]

Hotep!

A specialist in White Supremacists, Diane Dentice, from Texas Women's University gave a lecture to my Anthro Magic and Religion course three weeks ago about the occult background of the Nazis.

She explained that the Nazis were involved in several magical practices, ranging from the use of the Nazi flag as a means of bestowing blessings, to the killing of soldiers in order to communicate with the German ancestors, to sending couples to have intercourse on the graves of older German soldiers in hopes that a child would be born who was the reincarnation of one of the deceased.

All in all it was a fascinating lecture. *gets notes*
There was also William Pelley here in the States, who was a big supporter of Hitler and Henry Ford. Pelley perpetuated a story that, get this, Jews were demons disguised as humans. He also had visions and believed that Christ would come in his life. One of his more dramatic visions occurred when he met Hitler, though she didn't explain what the vision entailed.

I love that class.

[SageofThyme]

I've talked to a few witches who claim they were involved in the England magcal group

So as to not betray confidences (as I see it if they haven't said things publicly about their own lives then I shouldn't -its a moral thing not a oath bound gag)

from what they said it still seems unclear exactly what happened and what was just said for effect

[David19]

This thread is interesting. I don't know that much about the history of occult and Nazism and the Allies, but i have heard that both sides did use occult groups and witches to help them (i think i've read the Allies used them unofficially, and the Nazi's used them officially, although i'm not sure how reliable the information is).

I don't think i'd believe every occult group and witch that said they helped stop the Nazi's or whatever, because it seems a way for some people/groups to look good or gain prestige, but i think that some occult groups and witches were used.

I've heard that the Nazi's were influenced by certain occult groups, and their beliefs, one book review i found on Jordsvins (http://home.earthlink.net/~jordsvin/Jordsvins%20Writing/Book%20Review%20-%20Fire%20and%20Ice%20by%20Flowers.htm)site, is about the Brotherhood of Saturn, i've googled it, and from what i've found, they were supressed also under the Nazi's but they did (maybe still do have?) a very strong anti-Semitic belief, they had a 'no Jews allowed' policy so that may have influenced the Nazi's (although the policy is ironic, as group uses a lot of Kabbalahistic/Jewish magic).

I read in Triumph of the Moon, that Gardner's story of raising the cone of power against the Nazi's may have been borrowed from Aliester Crowley who said he was hired by the British secret services to help fight Hitler and the Nazi's but i'm not sure how true that is, also i think i've read Aliester Crowley was very, very anti-Semitic and hated the Jews.

Anyway, that's all i could find, i'll try look for more, anyone else know anything?.

[Morgandria]

My own high priestess has sworn to me (without revealing anything specific) that the 'Grand Cone of Power' was indeed raised in Britain during the war. I don't know anything about it other than that.

[Cerulean_damselfly]

Some bits and pieces.

1. I'm fascinated by what people have said, especially including Dion Fortune's name. I'd love to research and discuss what might have came from Britain and European shores.

(See below for Dion Fortune link and story).

2. Rudolph Steiner:

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/adept/steiner.htm


3. There was information about A. Crowley in one of Lon Duquette's books

If you have a log-on in the Amazon.com, you can search inside Lon Milo Duquette's book for "World War II and Duquette writes...

"..at the request of friend and Naval Intelligence Officer Ian Fleming, (11) Crowley provided Winston Churchill with valuable insights into the superstitions and magical mind of the leaders of the Third Reich. He also suggested to the prime minister, if the reports can be believed, that he could exploit the magical paranoia by being photographed as much as possible giving the two-fisted V-for-Victory gesture. This sign is the manual version of the magical sign of Alphois-Typhon, a powerful symbol of destruction and anniliation which according to magical tradition, is capable of defeating the solar energies represented by the swastika..."

p. 8, Understanding the Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot.
....

Other than knowing some trivia such as Pamela Colman Smith, the artist of the RWS Tarot, doing things such as rolling bandages for soldiers (?), I'll have to check the above tidbits out.

By the way, if the small bit below is not relevant, I'll remove it when I correct/edit my references above.

Just as a very sad aside on the historical symbolism of the other side, I've heard of people today who still shudder when they see a 'swastika' symbol, even if it was seen in its erstwhile prayerful and peaceful setting prior to the 20th century and in indiginous culture...so much was the horror associated with it. One traditional use:

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm

[Cerulean_damselfly]

Battle of Britain and Dion Fortune
from Supertarot site in UK.

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/adept/dion.htm

[David19]

I'd thought i'd bump this thread up, as i'd like to learn more about WW2 and the Occult, especially those used by Nazi Germany, like what Zephyrstorm mentioned.

I've seen this book in my local library called 'Hitler's Jewish Clairvoyant', i haven't read it, but it looks interesting.

Anyone have anything else to add?.

Off topic:I just love resurrecting old threads, ;).

[Garm]

I'd thought i'd bump this thread up, as i'd like to learn more about WW2 and the Occult, especially those used by Nazi Germany, like what Zephyrstorm mentioned.

I've seen this book in my local library called 'Hitler's Jewish Clairvoyant', i haven't read it, but it looks interesting.

Anyone have anything else to add?.

Off topic:I just love resurrecting old threads, ;).


The inevitable wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult_Hitlerism

[Cindlady2]

OK, in 1970 when I was in High School I wrote a paper for World History about this subject. I read a ton of books racking up facts and stringing them together in a coherent manor. (At this point I do not recall all the titles, it was over 30 years ago!) As far as writing goes it was probably a little above average. As far as research went is was well into collage level!
I got a 'D' because it was not what was taught in class. I even took it to the principle. I was told "although it was well done, it was not a subject for high school." Even with all the fact and research (which was documented) I don't think they believed me that such a thing had existed. GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damn closed mined teachers!!!!!

*Rant over*

Yes, I do believe there was allot of occult involvement in WWII.

[coaxialkettle]

indeed there was.did you keep the literature references,or even better,the papers you wrote in 1970?

[Cindlady2]

I wish I had! But even though I was a mature teen, that event got me so upset I burned it. It was one of the worse blows to my self esteem I had. I did more true research than anyone (including probably the teacher) and was essentially told it was worthless. I know I read 6 books and got bits out of at least 8 more. Plus some other bits and pieces. About all I really remember of it now was that a group called the 'Thoule Society' (spelling?) was the group that formed the Nazi Party and many of Hitler's advisers were in some way involved in the occult. As a matter of fact they actually were looking for someone like Hitler who they could manipulate into power and pull the strings.

I think History Channel did something on it a while back but I missed it. I would have love to have gotten hold of my old teacher and principle and rubbed there noses in that show!

[Paracelsus]

Thule Society.

[coaxialkettle]

thule society were a bunch of amateurs.they did,however,have
some connections with a few Very long-haired ladies who gave
them some energies to pervert,which they sure did,massively.

[coaxialkettle]

all warfare starts (and ends) in the minds of men
wwII was very many leveled to say the least...

[Cindlady2]

Thule Society.

Thanks!
I know there was allot more about them and who they were linked too, I just don't remember now. Yes, I wish I had kept the paper now too. :(