Empires

[gurlygurl2004]

What's the longest running empire and the shortest? Also what has been the smallest and largest(in size) empires ever?

[Valnorran]

As for longest, I'm going to say Egypt. The largest in size I would say would be the Mongols. I don't know about smallest or shortest but I'd guess one of the Mesopotamian empires.

[gurlygurl2004]

What about the great empires of Rome and Britain?

[Valnorran]

What about the great empires of Rome and Britain?
I know the Mongols took in more territory than Rome ever did. I don't know for sure but I suspect they also outdid the Brits in that respect, too. Everything I've read about them says Genghis Khan came closer to actually conquering the world in terms of sheer physical territory than anyone else. Britain had India, but the Mongols had India and the rest of Asia. In terms of longevity I'm pretty sure Egypt had them both beat. I have a theory that those empires that use aggressive expansion policies the least last the longest.

[Laisrean]

Germany during WW2 might be considered one of the shortest lasting empires. It emerged and collapsed within the space of 5 years... I don't know if it really is the shortest, but it is one of the shortest...

As for longest, I would say either Egypt or China. But can China be properly considered an empire when it is ethnically homogenous? The problem with empires over a few thousand years is the people tend to homogenize and at that point it may be more appropriate to call them large nations than empires...

[Snapdragon]

The answer to this question depends upon how 'empire' is defined; it could mean simply one nation's control of another, or it might mean more--much more.

[Valnorran]

Germany during WW2 might be considered one of the shortest lasting empires. It emerged and collapsed within the space of 5 years... I don't know if it really is the shortest, but it is one of the shortest...
Good one. I hadn't thought of that one.

As for longest, I would say either Egypt or China. But can China be properly considered an empire when it is ethnically homogenous? The problem with empires over a few thousand years is the people tend to homogenize and at that point it may be more appropriate to call them large nations than empires...
I don't know a whole lot of Chinese history, but it seems like they generally didn't go far past their borders. Seems like I once did a comparison and Egypt was in business longer. I'm at work now and don't have any of my books handy to look things up.

[Philosophia]

What about Iran, Tahuantinsuyo, or Peru?
Heres a link that could be of some interest:
http://www.cusco-peru.org/cusco-history-cusco-tahuantinsuyo-history.shtml

[Little Billy]

What's the longest running empire and the shortest? Also what has been the smallest and largest(in size) empires ever?

The Greater Canadian Horde sphere of influence is though by most historians to be the longest running, mightiest, and just plain meanest.

Shortest? Alexander or Hitler's empires, I suppose.

[David19]

I'm not sure but what about Saladin's empire, i think his lasted a while ~(although i know it wasn't the longest).

[omar]

Smallist Mussolini's? El Duce's. Italy WW2.?

[gurlygurl2004]

Smallist Mussolini's? El Duce's. Italy WW2.?


So basically there was a series of small wartime empires(in Western Europe) during WW2?

[Zibblsnrt]

What about the great empires of Rome and Britain?

Britain's empire lasted for about 350 years, about 200 of which were at what someone could consider the height of their power. For land area, it was quite substantial at its height (http://www.fcscanada.com/British%20Empire.gif); I'd have to see the exact land area figures to know for sure whether it directly competed with the Mongols' empire. (On the other hand, if it didn't, I'd still give the British points for the maritime control as well; the Mongol empire was a land one only.)

The Roman Empire was nowhere near the top for land area, although it was also very large (http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/262/268312/art/figures/KISH106.jpg) at its (brief) height. In terms of endurance, it's one of the longer-lasting ones out there. Defining its "empire" is a bit fuzzy - Rome had an empire before it was an empire, since the Republic was already controlling overseas territories in its middle phase. (You might even count the conquest of Italy itself to be an imperial act, but I'm splitting hairs there and starting with when they seized Sicily.)

You also have to argue whether you consider the Dominate or the Byzantine Empires to be continuations of the original one. For these purposes, I will - the Byzantines called themselves Romaioi until the very end - which means the Roman empire lasted for over 1,700 years, from about 260 BC until 1453. That's not the number one position, but it's a very respectable span and near the top of the list.

[Zibblsnrt]

So basically there was a series of small wartime empires(in Western Europe) during WW2?

Sortakinda. The only relevant ones in Europe itself (Britain, Japan, what was left of France, the Netherlands and the United States each had imperial possessions) were the Germans' and the Soviets'. (I would still qualify the present Russian state as an empire, in the "acquired by conquest, composed of several distinct cultures/peoples" sense. The Soviet Union was the same, only much moreso.) Italy was for all practical purposes a satellite state from very early in the war.

[LadyCelt]

I'd think Mesopotamia would be the longest running and biggest in size. I think the Roman Empire would come close for size.

[Little Billy]

I'd think Mesopotamia would be the longest running and biggest in size.

Not even close. The largest Empire of all time was the USSR.

[Zibblsnrt]

Not even close. The largest Empire of all time was the USSR.

The Mongols still have them beat for land area, at least briefly. It gets fuzzier if you count the Warsaw Pact as part of the empire, which one might as well. You're right on Mesopotamia, though; even the larger Mesopotamian empires weren't that large (http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/worldhis/map09.gif).

LadyCelt, one thing to keep in mind with Mesopotamia is that it's a region first, a civilization second, and a state third. While there was a discrete area thought of (in one form or another) as "Mesopotamia" from the dawn of civilization until sometime after the Second World War, a dozen or so seperate empires have taken up the region in that time. Mesopotamia, as an idea, outlasts most empires, but the empires in Mesopotamia usually only lasted a few centuries. It's much like early Europe in that sense.

[Little Billy]

The Mongols still have them beat for land area, at least briefly. It gets fuzzier if you count the Warsaw Pact as part of the empire, which one might as well. .


I was. It would be pointless NOT to, as the citizens of Hungary found out.

[Cain]

How large was the Mongols? Brits had a quarter of the worlds landmass, even if most of it was uninhabited. Large amounts of Africa, Canada, Australia, India, parts of the Middle East (post WWI) and so many islands and cities I cant be bothered to count.

Shortest would probably be Il Duce's abortive attempt. Nazi Germany had been annexing since '37, so that makes it 8 years...when did Mussolini head into Africa again? Was it '38 or '34?

[Laisrean]

How large was the Mongols? Brits had a quarter of the worlds landmass, even if most of it was uninhabited. Large amounts of Africa, Canada, Australia, India, parts of the Middle East (post WWI) and so many islands and cities I cant be bothered to count.

Shortest would probably be Il Duce's abortive attempt. Nazi Germany had been annexing since '37, so that makes it 8 years...when did Mussolini head into Africa again? Was it '38 or '34?

Italy had control of Libya and (I think) Somalia before Mussolini came to power, didn't they?

[Cain]

Italy had control of Libya and (I think) Somalia before Mussolini came to power, didn't they?

Libya maybe, but Somalia they had been driven out of in 1896, I think. I also remembered that the invasion took place in '36, but with Libya as a possesion its making Nazi Germany look like a contestant for shortest lived empire. Even the Athenians did better than that and they were hopeless.