The Ba and the Ka

[Romani Vixen]

Hotep!

What is everyones take on the Ba vs. the Ka? What is the difference that you see between the two? How does each of the two manifest in your life? If you believe in reincarnation, how do they relate to that belief? How do they relate to your Parents?

I'm entirely too tired at the moment to post my thoughts on the matter at the moment, but if I don't post it now, I'll forget by morning! LOL And I thought that it would make a good discussion.

Senebty and goodnight,

Ankhetbast

[Meirya]

My take on it:

The ba is the core immortal part of your soul; it is the part that reincarnates; it's also akin to the Reclaiming idea of the "Higher Self". The ka is you-this-life, does not reincarnate in most cases. The ba is like the skeleton of the soul; the ka is like the flesh. Or more accurately, the ba is like the concept of temperament in psychology (a genetically set base that you're born with) and the ka is like the personality (which develops as you grow, with the temperament as the base).

I think the ka leaves imprints, impressions, etc on the ba, so that the ba is more or less molded by each ka it wears, yet the ba retains its same basic nature. The ka goes onto the afterlife, taking its memories with it; this is why most people do not remember their past lives, and when they do remember past lives, they're mostly getting the basic impressions left on the ba from those lifetimes. (This is also why people tend to remember their more eventful lifetimes, because those lifetimes had more of an impact on the ba and left a stronger imprint.) When people remember a past life in great detail, they're often somehow managing to connect to that lifetime's ka (which is in the afterlife), probably through their ba.

I have met some people whose ka reincarnates along with their ba from life to life. I've met others who have a limited set of kau that rotate lifetimes, or a limited set of kau that incarnate with the ba each lifetime in the same body, resulting in multiple personalities.

I kind of like the idea I heard in the HoN forums that your Parent(s) created your ba and your Beloved(s) created your ka. I don't know if I agree with it, but it's an interesting idea that bears more thought, I think.

[maiem]

I agree mostly with Meirya, minus the whole reincarnation thing that I do not beleive in.

[argento_occhi]

It's not that I don't believe in reincarnation, I just don't think it's compulsory. But, apart from that, Meirya said it how I see it. That the ba is the eternal part and the ka is for this lifetime. It makes sense, to me anyway. Meirya, you said it how I'd love to be able to explain it.

Argent

[OrionNeb87]

Ah the ba and the ka, I can never seem to get these two straight. Thank you Meirya for the wonderful explanation. :)

[Zephyrstorm]

Pretty much what Meirya said.

[magickman12]

I see the Ba as the mortal soul that is colored with the energies of the zodiac. If it fails to pass the feather test of Maat, it is destroyed to be replaced with a new one. The Ka, which is the immortal Spirit, is your ture self, devoid of all traits, fears, and desires, being only complete and pure awareness. This may stray a bit from Egyptian thought, but it works for me and my quasi-Egyptian path.

MM12

[NefertSatSekhmet]

My take on it:

The ba is the core immortal part of your soul; it is the part that reincarnates; it's also akin to the Reclaiming idea of the "Higher Self". The ka is you-this-life, does not reincarnate in most cases. The ba is like the skeleton of the soul; the ka is like the flesh. Or more accurately, the ba is like the concept of temperament in psychology (a genetically set base that you're born with) and the ka is like the personality (which develops as you grow, with the temperament as the base).

Um... I would agree with most of what you said, except from my understanding it is backwards, swap Ba and Ka around in your explanation, ie, the ka is the immortal part of your soul that animates you while the ba is the part of your soul with your personality in this life (regardless of if you believe in reincarnation or not)

[kheretsenu]

I'm pretty sure that your Parents made your Ba and your Beloveds your Ka... and that it's your Ka that becomes an Akh and your Ba gets to do any number of things (like reincarnate, etc).

[NefertSatSekhmet]

I'm pretty sure that your Parents made your Ba and your Beloveds your Ka... and that it's your Ka that becomes an Akh and your Ba gets to do any number of things (like reincarnate, etc).

Grr... ok thanks, I am back to reading about it cos I must have gotten it all confuzzled in my mind... too many soul parts to tell apart...

[Sobeq]

So *that's* it. So fascinating, so annoyed that I missed the latest beginner's class...

[Meirya]

So *that's* it. So fascinating, so annoyed that I missed the latest beginner's class...

Hey, I haven't taken the beginner's class yet. *heh* It's my understanding that the Egyptians didn't talk about reincarnation much; there was a pretty colorful afterlife (the Field of Reeds), but only rarely was reincarnation mentioned, and in those very rare cases, the ba was the part that reincarnated. (I think. Note that most of this is stuff I've gleaned from some egyptology books and various sources around the internet, so take it with a few handfuls of salt because I can't check my sources at the moment.)

The connection of the ba and ka to reincarnation is just my own conclusions. If they're the same as someone else's, great. But I have no idea how accurate it is as far as ancient Egyptian belief or modern Kemetism; it's just what makes sense to me from what I've read and what I've intuited.

[Meirya]

Grr... ok thanks, I am back to reading about it cos I must have gotten it all confuzzled in my mind... too many soul parts to tell apart...

*hehe!* I've somehow managed to get them all (ba, ka, sekhem, yb, khaibit, khat, ren, akh, sahu) memorized. o.o Not entirely sure how I did it, either. The ba and ka did give me trouble for a while too, though. I remember it by thinking about the ba as the base. Ba begins base.

[Zephyrstorm]

The only way I keep track of the ka and ba is to remember that the Ka becomes the Akh. ;) Ka-Ak. I still get confuzzled occasionally.

[Senushemi]

OK, let me get this straight... the Ba is your "base", and your Ka (hopefully) becomes an Akhu... cool! Thanks guys! :)

[Gitli]

Its pretty fascinating. I have done research in a number of different religions, and the more you look, the more you realise there are patterns that hold true in many religions. Ex. Im a firm believer in the Spirit/Body ideal, and not only does the Kemetic religion believe in this, but also many eastern religions and Native American religions. The one thing I do belive in, in addition to the whole Ka/Ba Body/Soul thing, is a third facet which consists of the mind. Instead of having it as part of the Ba, i feel it is to "different" from it that it needs to be its own form.

[Meirya]

Well, there are more parts to the self than the ba and ka. From this page (http://kemet.250x.com/soul.html):

Khat-The human body. Absolutely mortal, the KHAT dies and must be preserved or else it will decompose. To some degree the KA and KHAT are tied together- the KA must recognize its tomb and thus the dead must be preserved.

Ka-The KA is the spiritual double. . . The KA reflects the human aspect of the soul, that part which remembers earthly existence and may remain on this planet, in its tomb, or visiting friends and relatives. It recieves offerings and must eat and drink(spiritually) or else it may starve or become angry.

Ba-The BA is the part of the human soul that is divine; the immortal soul, represented as a bird with the head of the deceased, possibly to symbolically represent its ascent into heaven. In those texts and faiths that had a belief in reincarnation(though they are very rare), the BA would be the part of the soul to return to inhabit a new body. The BA can travel both to the Duat(Netherworld) as well as return to earth to visit family, friends, even its body and its KA and converse with it(its KA).

Khaibit-One of the most difficult aspects of the soul to define, the KHAIBIT is translated as "Shadow" or perhaps "Shade" and was clearly tied to the KA. [I think of it as the Jungian shadow.]

Sekhem-This is the life-energy or power of the deceased. Although some sources speak of the SEKHEM as being mortal and dying with that KHAT, the Pyramid Texts seem to indicate the SEKHEM as traveling to the Netherworld with the deceased.

Ib-This is the heart. The Kemetic people believed the heart to be the seat of thought, logic and knowledge, and regarded the brain as useless; they realized of course that the brain, if damaged, could cause disability or death(this is apparent by the fact that they performed minor forms of brain surgery) but considered it otherwise meaningless. [This would be the "mind".]

Ren-This is the individual's Name. All people have a Name which describes the person as a complete entity. In many cultures the name of an individual is considered powerful- in the Aboriginal culture of Australia, for example, a child gives up his or her name at adolescence and keeps it hidden for fear that its use could empower others to control him or her. In like fashion the Kemetic people believed that the Name, or REN, contained power that could be used against him or her in magickal incantations.