Islam

[Agaliha]

I did a search in Paths for a thread dedicated to Islam and didn't find one. So I made one.

I'm not looking for any bickering like in PP about Islam...
This thread has nothing to do with the Israel-Lebabon crisis, terrorist or anything else.
This thread is for Islam. The real Islam, not the warped, deluded path terrorists follow.

*I'm curious has anyone here seriously considered Islam as a spiritual path?
---If yes, what positive things did you take away and what negative things (or what made you not stick with it) did you take away?
---If no, why not?

*Has anyone read the Qu'ran either for spiritual reasons, understanding or just to read it?

I'm reading about Islam right now. The Qu'ran and some books about what Islam is not.
A good book that's simple and explains what Islam is not (as in not what the terrorist and wackos believe) is:
Islam Explained (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565848977/sr=8-1/qid=1155336053/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0841627-3445628?ie=UTF8) by Tahar Ben Jelloun, Franklin Philip, and Tahar Ben Jelloun (Paperback - April 2004)
I'm also reading about women in Islam and some other stuff.

Not too sure why...I've suddenly got an interest in the faith. It's the only of the "big three" that I haven't looked into. If anything its a good history and theology lesson.
And actually, there are aspects of it that make sense to me. I like some of their views, for example I like now there is no Original Sin in Islam; the woman was not seen as a seductress that is to be blamed for eating the apple-- both man and woman are at fault and they were forgiven and did not live in sin afterwards.

Anyway...just curious if anyone else has looked into it too.

[Duwayitheru]

I've read the Quran to learn about and understand Islam, also I believe all religious texts contain spiritual lessons - so for that reason as well.

I've never consitered Islam as a path I would follow, mainly because I think I'd make a bad monothiest. ;) I do still continue to study it (as I do many religions) and there is a lot of beauty in the religion. There are also somethings I did not agree with (though, nothing very specific somes to mind right now) of course - as there are in all religions. It's been very interesting to learn about. In my study, I have been amazed to see how many lies there are about the religion around, and how many people close their minds up to it without really knowing anything about it.

[Agaliha]

Thanks for sharing :)

I enjoy learning about all religions as well, it's a passion of mine (my sister thinks I should become a theology major).
I find them all interesting in their own way and I often take away may lessons and ideas from each one.


In my study, I have been amazed to see how many lies there are about the religion around, and how many people close their minds up to it without really knowing anything about it.

Exactly. That's one of the reasons I wanted to read and learn more.
With Islam being caught in the position it is today (linked to terrorists and wackos) I think it's even more important for people to learn about the real Islam. Plus it's the second largest relgion in the world, that's a lot of people and places. I think learning about Islam would be quite helpful in understanding them.
I just wish more would open their mind to learn....

[Cat]

I took a class in Islam ages ago as an undergrad. It was an intro level class that just gave an overview and brief history ofthe religion. It was really fascinating. We did read the Koran, though I don't recall most of it. The poetry was beautiful. I'm thinking of the later mystics, Rumi might have been one. They described the relationship between the seeker and Allah as that of lover and Beloved. So they basically wrote love poetry to God. Pretty good poetry, at least in my undergrad mind.

I have not considered Islam as a spiritual path for myself, because:

1) I already have one
2) I'm not a monotheist
3) I don't worship the Old Testament or New Testament God(s), and Allah is supposed to be cognate with Them.
4) The usual dogma about their way being the One True way and Islam as being better than other trads etc., etc, ad nauseam
5) Prohibitions against alcohol turn me right off. So do snarky comments about dogs. I like dogs.
6) A religion whose established heirarchy tolerates the execution of girls and women whose only crime was to be raped...that's not a group I could willingly join.

[Thunder]

I find all of the Abrahmic religions rather limiting.

[Agaliha]

I like Rumi and other Sufi poets, awesome stuff. There's a Lj community that posts his work: http://community.livejournal.com/dailyrumi/ (there are tons in the archives there).
Sufism in intersting, I plan on looking more into it later.

As for the killing women for being rape victims, I was under the impression that that was a cultural, warped practice that has no part in the Qu'ran. Ditto it honor killings. And female genital mutilation. And forced veiling. And tons of other stuff.
From what I understand if there were passages in the Qu'ran, they were misused, warped and misinterpreted so sickos could justify their actions. THe same thing happen in Christianity where people pick and chose passages to justify injustices.

::shrug:: Thanks for sharing :)

[Cat]

The problem is that culture and creed intermix. I'm guessing I'd be much happier in an American Mosque than in a Saudi one, though.

While killing rape victims is absolutely *not* in the Koran, this passage is : Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great. Quote found on http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/, which is a searchable version of the Koran.

To be fair, Islam is hardly the first religion to advocate mistreatment of women. And I do think it was one of the first big ones to allow female inheritance--but I'm no scholar.

[Cain]

I am reading the Koran again, as I can't seem to remember much of reading it the first time (I have the same problem with some Hindu texts too). I also find both Sufism and Ismalism in particular fascinating divisions. I don't know too much about the former, but could talk at length on the latter.

[Carla O'Harris]

Please do.

[Cain]

Alright, I'll try, but its quite complex and I may be kicked out of this library soon. Give me a moment to gather my thoughts...

[Cain]

Alright, back now. Like most Shi'a sects, the Isma’ilis relied on a mystical, esoteric interpretation of the Quran for guidance and to reveal the wisdom of Allah. This method is called Ta'wil and has many similarities with Qabbalah and quickly became institutionalized to a large degree. Essentially there was the surface truth, the truth of allusion, the occult truth and the spiritual truth, all intended for different audiences. Only a Prophet could aspire to the fourth level however, so it is not uncommon to see references to only the first three levels.

More on ta'wil can be found here http://www.quran.org.uk/articles/ieb_quran_tawil.htm

The Isma’ilis also used this in reference to their own cosmology. So the first level equates to earth and physical matters, the second to water and religion and the third to air and the spiritual world. However, only a Prophet could transcent beyond these and access reality itself, which corresponds to the symbol of fire, as divine agency was needed to be able to do this.

In fact, this esoteric explanation extended outside of just the Quran and was often applied to the whole of reality itself. Neo-Platonic philosophy was a heavy influence on the sect, as this idea shows. Plotonius was a huge influence, his concept of "The One" from which all derive and wish to return to. Also, "the One" created the universe before the existence of time, so in effect the Universe is The One, who the Isma’ilis identified as Allah. Obviously there is a paradox here, as Allah is the Universe yet seperate to it, this paradox being at the heart of Isma’ili thought.

Creation came before logic and so it is impossible to comprehend how Allah carried out the act. However, as creation is an act of Divine Command (like The Word in the 4th Gospel) Isma’ili philosophers turned their attention to that, calling it the First Intelligence, the link between the Unknowable and the Creation. In total, there are considered to be 10 such Intelligences, which is important for understanding their interpretation of The Fall. Each Intelligence is best thought of as a different world or planes of existence, as similar to some Sufi thought. Each level also has its own denizens, with orders of Archangels and Angels and so on and so forth. To attempt to cross into these other planes is considered highly impious, especially since Allah is already one with everything, so there is little point to trying it.

This was once attempted by an Archangel of the Third Intelligence, which led it to believe it was The Divine Source itself. To punish him, he was demoted to the Tenth Intelligence, the lowest of them all, taking a large number of angels and beings with him. He told them to seek their old stations by following orders from the Higher Intelligences, their former subordinates. However, they took badly to this and started to rebel. The archangel, realizing how serious this was, made himself into a Demiurge and created the physical world for these creatures, so that they may be able to redeem themselves and be enlightened. Note also the drop from 3 to 10 in Intelligences equals 7, the mystical Isma’ili number.

I'll add more later, as I figure out how to write about it. Obviously, I am trying my hardest to avoid talking to much about the Assassins, which is hard when dealing with this material.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Working all day everyday alone with 3 muslim guys (who I absolutly love) I have learned quite a bit about Islam. One thing Iv learned - Islam is about denying your desires in this life, so you can have all youve ever desired in the afterlife. Muslims believe in the christian bibles and in Jesus, they dont believe jesus was the literall son of god they believe he was a prophet of god, like mohammed was later. They believe in heven and hell, and Adam and Eve. They believe some pretty harsh shit for the end of days, the only thing I dont like about the religion is the part about going to a really wicked sounding hell if you didnt accept allah as the one and only god and mohammed as the final prophet...other than that it is a really morally correct way of living. Islam is a way of living. No drinking or drugs, no sex before marriage, no adultry, no hurting people, no stealing ect ect...I could type more, but its to early for this. lol. Somthing to look up if your interested is the hadiths, words written by people who were close to mohammed the prophet. Study the history of the areas as well, that also explains Islam.

[David19]

I haven't studied Islam, but i'd like to (i'd like to study a variety of religions, such as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, 'pagan' religions, and Islam, etc).

Thanks for the links you provided Agaliha, and also thanks Cain for your post :).

[Agaliha]

Yay for people posting. Thanks for sharing.
Interesting stuff. I'll read the posts more indepth later.

Sufism is pretty interesting as it's the mystical sect of Islam.
Here's some sites I saw when I did a search:
Sufism, Sufis, and Sufi Orders: Sufism's Many Paths (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur8rO95Ev1cAwphXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2aGQxcG10BGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMwRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANQUkVWX zc4/SIG=11ok8m4og/EXP=1155501227/**http%3a//www.uga.edu/islam/Sufism.html)
Sufism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geur8rO95Ev1cAs5hXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2a3ZlcHFrBGNvbG8DZQRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANQUkVWX zc4/SIG=11n2ieauf/EXP=1155501227/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism)
Sufism & Me (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=96580550/SIG=111hev318/*http%3A//nurihsan.blogspot.com/) -- a personal blog about it
American Sufi Institute (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=7016073/SIG=11ito1rrj/*http%3A//www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2717)
Sufi Poetry (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=97000644/SIG=119enutgf/*http%3A//wahiduddin.net/sufi_poetry.htm) --------------
Sufi: Selected Articles (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=97000638/SIG=10t65safd/*http%3A//www.sufism.ru/eng/)
Sufi Women Organization (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=45440509/SIG=10tncvb4e/*http%3A//www.sufiwomen.org/)
Sufi Traditions (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=22434199/SIG=11jhe3ccq/*http%3A//www.webcom.com/~gnosis/sufi.mystica.html)
Sufism: An Inquiry (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=50506743/SIG=111629rva/*http%3A//www.sufismjournal.org/)
List of Sufi-Related Resources on the Internet (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=261690/SIG=119jdopq4/*http%3A//world.std.com/~habib/sufi.html)
International Association of Sufism (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=261686:D1/CS=261686/SS=261689/SIG=10nuqfqer/*http%3A//www.ias.org/)

I'll have to look though those later.


Oh and I thought this was intersting too.





Question.
[I]Al -'The', lah - 'God'. It means the God. It was one of the gods worshipped by the Arabs. His female equivalent was Allat, al- 'the', Lat 'goddess'. Muhammed's followers did not like the concept of worshipping a female diety.



Answer.

"Allah" was NOT "one of the gods" of the pre-Islamic Arabs, but was recognised by them as the supreme, abstract God. There was no idol which they called "Allah". The Quran quotes the idol-worshippers as presenting the argument that:
"We worship them (i.e. the idols) only so that they may bring us nearer to Allah." (39:3)
Obviously then, "Allah" was not just one of the gods.


It is also entirely wrong to say that Al-Lat was a feminine form of Allah. Besides Allah, the different tribes of the Arabs believed in their tribal gods. "Al-Lat" was the tribal god of the Thaqeef tribe who lived in the city of Taif (where there was a shrine with an idol of Lat). The Quraish worshipped Uzza as their tribal god, and similarly with other tribes.

So it is simply incorrect to say that the Arabs regarded Lat as being a female equivalent of "Allah". "Allah" was, as said above, regarded by them as their supreme God. Lat, Manat etc. were believed in as tribal gods.


Moreover, Lat, Manat and Uzza were believed by them to be daughters of Allah, as the Quran says:
"Have you then considered Lat and Uzza, and the third, Manat? Are the males for you and for Him the females" (53:19-21). The Quran is here pointing out the contradiction in their beliefs, that they ascribed daughters to Allah, but preferred to have sons themselves! So Lat being believed as a daughter of Allah, could not possibly be regarded by them as the female equivalent of Allah.


In Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon the words ilah (god) and Allah occur under the root A-L-H, but the word Al-lat is given under an entirely different root L-T. Therefore, "Al-lat" is not the feminine form of the word Allah (for in that case it would occur under the same root as for "Allah"), but is derived from a completely different root with a totally different meaning.
The root from which al-lat comes means (among other things) "to moisten". Lane quotes several reports on how the idol came to be so called. It is named after a man called Al-Lat. Sometime before Islam, there was a man who used to give pilgrims a barley meal (known as saweek), moistened with either water or clarified butter. He thus became known as Al-lat. After he died, the rock where he was buried came to be worshipped and was known by his name. And thus there came to be the idol named Al-lat.

From this site (http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm)


I read that Allat was just a feminine version of Allah before and it made sense on the surface so I just assumed it was correct...guess it's not. Interesting.

ETA: There are some pre-Islamic pantheon info online it anyone is interested...

[Toby Stimpson]

Hmm, an interesting question. Theres certainly a lot of nteresting things when it comes to Islam, but to be honest I dont think it in it's entirety is for me. The major problem first and fore most is that it is diluted a lot with cultural biases...and an almost horrible lack of discussion of issues. One fundamentalist Muslim may say soemthing and not be challenged because to challenge a literal interpretation of the Koran and Sunna...is almost unheard of, or very difficult to do nowadays. The basis of the religion...submission to God and his prophets is interesting...but I myself cant believe strictly in a saviour figure becasue its counter to my personal beliefs and what I have found to be necessary in my life. I do have a lot of Muslim friends, ad indeed it was a Muslim guy who first introduced me to Hinduism (hes very open minded and calls himself a Muslim because his mom and dad are, and also his view of Allah is very open.) I find soem of the ideas, especially in the Sufi tradition to be very interesting. Its an interesting religion, and in amny respects the eqaul in the world to Christianity...good and bad.

[Iris]

I recently read a book called 'Nine parts of desire' which is about the culture of Islamic women...however, written by a western woman, there's an obvious negative bias. I'm also quite interested in Islam. There's actually a mosque very close to where I live, and I've also traditionally been fascinated by aspects of eastern culture, and I've always said that I'd love to someday be able to say I'd read the holy books of all the major religions :)

[Toby Stimpson]

A really good book, hat sort of follows the history of the role of God in islam, and subsequently the religiona s well in a very posituive light is "A History of God" and "Muhammed" By english scholar Karen Armstrong...my fast becoming fav abrahamic scholar hehe. Very interesting stuff.

[Agaliha]

I'm also quite interested in Islam. There's actually a mosque very close to where I live, and I've also traditionally been fascinated by aspects of eastern culture, and I've always said that I'd love to someday be able to say I'd read the holy books of all the major religions :)

I am facinated by (Middle) Eastern culture [not the negative, wacko aspects] as well, something about it seems...familiar? I don't know. I won't get into that now though. Heh.
There isn't a Mosque close to my home (there are some churches though), but there is one near by. I want to go there eventually. I'd have to call them and see if it'd be okay first. I think they'd be friendly about it, but I just want to be respectful.
There's a series of books, How to Be a Perfect Stranger: A Guide to Etiquette in Other People's Religious Ceremonies (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1893361012/sr=8-3/qid=1155442550/ref=pd_bbs_3/002-2473207-6360803?ie=UTF8) by Arthur J. Magida, Stuart M. Matlins-- I think there are four in the series now. I forget which one talks about Mosques (might be the 3rd one), but they have really good info for those not familar with things and how to act, what to do, what not to do, and what to expect. My public library has them all :)

Oh and the Qu'ran. I'm reading this totally english-ifed version. Heh. The library I was at had the real Qu'ran checked out, so it'll have to do for now. I'm still on AL-BAQARA (The Chapter of the Cow). :lol: I'm a slow reader.
I need to find a good book that explains things in the Qu'ran, like guide or something. Anyone know any?

Sacred-texts.com has the Hadith, BTW.


The Hadith, second only to the Qur'an in importance and authority, are collections of Islamic traditions and laws (Sunna). This includes traditional sayings of Muhammed and later Islamic sages. By the ninth century over 600,000 Hadith had been recorded; these were later edited down to about 25,000.
A Manual of Hadith (http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/hadith/index.htm)
Translated by Maulana Muhammad Ali [1944].

Hadith of Bukhari (http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/bukhari/index.htm)
An extensive collection of Hadith.


Now to read the other replies :)

[omar]

I bought an English version of the koran to understand them. But as far as I am concerned "all religions" was created by small minded people to leed other small minded people. GOD, has NO religion.

[Toby Stimpson]

I bought an English version of the koran to understand them. But as far as I am concerned "all religions" was created by small minded people to leed other small minded people. GOD, has NO religion.

LOL not really...he believes in Himself so that must mean soemthing...if not atleast we have a very self confidant God on our hands *thumbs up*