Green Witchcraft/Green Wiccacraft?

[_Banbha_]

:wave:

I was wondering about the Green Witchcraft Tradition and how it's defined.


A Green Witch is a woman of power,
whose religion is her life,
whose life is her art,
and whose art is the wise use of the green.
~Susun Weed

My favorite Green Witchcraft books are written by Susan Weed. But when I search further in Pagan specific realms, of books and URL's, I come up with what seems more like "Green Wiccacraft."

Using for example a well-known and liked author Ann Moura (http://www.annmourasgarden.com/):



1. The Self is elevated to a union with the Universe, enhancing the personal power of the Witch through the energies of herbs and natural objects and directing this to accomplish a goal.

2. Ritual, magical tools, and conscious spellwork function through the Elementals, and a Grimoire is created to codify tables of magical correspondences for a successful practice.

3. Religion plays no part, save as the Witch and the Unnamed All work together through Nature with honesty, instinct, and intuition, which I address in Witchcraft: An Alternative Path. With this style of practice the holidays are lived and experienced rather than observed as ritual Sabbats and Esbats. " --- Ann Moura

These three options leave the door open for non-ritualistic, non-wiccan practice and she says so; but in her book _Green Witchcraft: Folk Magic, Fairy Lore & Herb Craft_ she is constantly just tweeking the distinctions between her practice and Wicca (and they are mostly small distinctions that fit in philosophy of Wicca, imo). She seems Wiccan but just doesn't really like the word Wicca.

Moura's extensive rituals and belief system of diety are highly Wiccanesque as well. When you add some of her sketchy history (i am not alone in this particuliar criticism) in the beginning of her book ...it's much like any Wicca 101 book with the required lists of stones, herbs , etc. in the flavor of Green (like the way some Wicca comes in in 'Celtic' variety). This is completely acceptable in Wiccan tradition. But I'm finding while searching for Green Witchcraft in most places to be more Wiccan; even if it's not labled as such.... (I don't mean to pick on Ann Moura, I'm using her as the best known example and I still have a ways to go in my search).

Does anyone else feel this way? Or know of any books/URL's on Green Witchcraft that are not Wiccan in practice? Or even less Wiccan maybe? (no offense to Wiccans. I'm Irish Recon and Wicca doesn't mesh with my belief system. :) )

[Nitefalle]

Very good questions and very good point!! I did notice that about Ann Moura, myself - especially when she said that one of her family's gods was Shiva. That sort of threw me for a loop. Tasted very eclectic to me.

Anyway, I have personally found that to find good "green" information of the non wiccan flavor, you start to veer down the path of Hedgewitchery, with all its many definitions. Also, learning old herb lore and flower language, things like that, help a great deal. I also greatly enjoy Ellen Dugan - I find her books to be a very easy read with very easy charms / activities without being overtly denominational. Other than sort of forming your own information base, there isn't any strict definition of Green Witchcraft. I believe Ann Moura was one of the first to really set the term as a "path" (I could be wrong), but to me it just means working closely with the Earth, working closely with the bounty of magical energy all around us in the form of plants, stones, crystals, etc. Hope this helps.

[_Banbha_]

Very good questions and very good point!! I did notice that about Ann Moura, myself - especially when she said that one of her family's gods was Shiva. That sort of threw me for a loop. Tasted very eclectic to me.

I'm glad somebody else noticed, because I'm always hearing the buzz from people talking about her saying, she's not Wiccan. When you are an actual 'not Wiccan' and look at her work, you can't help but notice she IS...:awilly: Teh Eclectasatismism, it does confusal me!


Anyway, I have personally found that to find good "green" information of the non wiccan flavor, you start to veer down the path of Hedgewitchery, with all its many definitions.

Exploring the ways of Hedgewichery sounds like an excellent plan. :) I'd still like to find some non-Wiccan Greenwitchery sources too.

It was my linking to Susan Weed and identifing myself as Green Witch before the LLywellyn franchise stepped in... _inabox_ I'm not going to turn this into a rant. Promise. I like Moura almost as much as Cunningham for a Wiccan author and I have most of his books. I have an old book by the Campanelli's that I just love too. Sentimental value, even though I never took the path. It just seems like Green Witchcraft had been trademarked and branded and it's...ta daaa...... Wicca. /end: not really a rant/


Also, learning old herb lore and flower language, things like that, help a great deal. I also greatly enjoy Ellen Dugan - I find her books to be a very easy read with very easy charms / activities without being overtly denominational. Other than sort of forming your own information base, there isn't any strict definition of Green Witchcraft. I believe Ann Moura was one of the first to really set the term as a "path" (I could be wrong), but to me it just means working closely with the Earth, working closely with the bounty of magical energy all around us in the form of plants, stones, crystals, etc. Hope this helps.

Yes, it does, thanks; and I feel much the same. Researching old herb lore back to the classics, Irish and Heathen folklore, modern herbals; and books on trees are a big collectible for me. I'm always looking for earth-loving, earth-speaking-to-me-books and they are often not in the Pagan/newage section at the bookstore. Heh, too bad.

I gave an Ellen Dugan book as a gift to a friend. I'll have to look more closely at her work next rainy day I'm lounging around the bookstore. I choose it because it did seem open to many traditions since my friend is not Pagan (but is discovering her inner-Witchiness ). :)

[Nitefalle]

Actually, Ellen Dugan does give a lot of flower language and lore in her books, as that is a personal interest of hers. She is also a master gardener for her state (or is that county?) *and* a psychic/energy-sensitive person, so what she writes about plant energies she can back up with personal and practical experience/advice. I consider her to be more of a "green witch" than Ann Moura - though I don't think she calls herself that. She ties a lot of it into the home and very simple, non-denominational decorations/celebrations. She does a lot of this with her family, so most of it is kid friendly, too. I have her Cottage Witchery and Garden Witchery book, as well as her Herbs for Beginners book (even though I'm not a beginner, it had lots of great info in it, I couldn't resist). I have heard a lot of good things about Rae Beth, as well (or is it Beth Rae - I always get it confused! 8O ).

Isn't it strange how books I consider to be innately "pagan" are often in different sections of book stores? Books on Celtic history and gods in the mythology and history section - what silliness! :nyah:

[_Banbha_]

I am definately going to check Ellen Dugan's books. I think I'll like them. :)


Isn't it strange how books I consider to be innately "pagan" are often in different sections of book stores? Books on Celtic history and gods in the mythology and history section - what silliness!


:geez: I know and they are generally the best books too. Which is a shame. Hopefully this will change when people who publish Pagan books wake up to the need in the community/market place for more scholarly books.

[_Banbha_]

I found LiveJournal nonwiccanwitch Group (http://community.livejournal.com/nonwiccanwitch/profile) that looks interesting for a try....
Are you a Witch, but not Wiccan? This community is for you!

Hedge Witches
Kitchen Witches
Green Witches
Hoodoo/Conjure/Rootworkers
Wise Women and Cunning Men
Folk Magic Practitioners
Solitary or Covened, Dianic or Traditional
Whatsamawitch (As in, et cetera)




Also this essay Green Witchcraft and Kitchen Witchery. (http://www.geocities.com/astraeaaradia/greenwitchcraft.html) Meh. I'm off to the Hedges... :shift:

[Tanya]

I find in my day to day practice I'm very green witchy, but the religious background for my practice is Wicca, though I refuse to participate in the Alexandian/Gardnerian debate....I believe in basic Wicca religious tenets, and refuse to takeon any sort of reconstructed and psedo-historial practice.

[ap Dafydd]

I think it's a rare Pagan who's not Wiccan-influenced in some way in this day and age unless you resolutely root out everything that might be considered that way.

But I certainly don't regard myself as Wiccan, I see my tradition as being far more ancient: CT rather than Wylde's CR but rooted in folk tradition and knowledge.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Zephyrstorm]

I just picked up the Cottage Witchery book and am loving it so far.
My own practices are influenced by Wicca, but I don't think they qualify anymore for truly being Wiccan. *shrug*

I've met relatively few Pagans who weren't influenced at some point in their lives by Wicca, and most of those that weren't were Recons.
:)
Z

[_Banbha_]

I find in my day to day practice I'm very green witchy, but the religious background for my practice is Wicca, though I refuse to participate in the Alexandian/Gardnerian debate....I believe in basic Wicca religious tenets, and refuse to takeon any sort of reconstructed and psedo-historial practice.

If I were Wiccan I'd stay away from that debate too. I think it has very little to do with what's really important religiously or spiritually. The psuedo/history debate that occured here made my eyes bleed. _inabox_ I'm a great lover of folk-lore though, and it seems that it just gets unfairly devalued in those arguments, even though I agree psuedo-history is bad. Too much flaming ruins good debate.

I'm just looking for sources not imbued with Wiccan philosophy. CR is very different at it's elemental core in a number of directions. I don't want to give the impression that I don't like or value Wicca. :)



I think it's a rare Pagan who's not Wiccan-influenced in some way in this day and age unless you resolutely root out everything that might be considered that way.

Well, Wicca has adapted many things from many older Traditions and cultures in one form or another; so my Trad infulences Wicca not the other way around. ;)



But I certainly don't regard myself as Wiccan, I see my tradition as being far more ancient: CT rather than Wylde's CR but rooted in folk tradition and knowledge.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

:smile: :cheers:



I just picked up the Cottage Witchery book and am loving it so far.
My own practices are influenced by Wicca, but I don't think they qualify anymore for truly being Wiccan. *shrug*

I've met relatively few Pagans who weren't influenced at some point in their lives by Wicca, and most of those that weren't were Recons.
:)
Z


I agree. Which Cottage Witchery book did you pick up btw?

It's the huge popularity of Wicca that causes most books to be so heavily infulenced. It's just frustrating sometimes. Even in Paganism, most everything is so mainstream. I'd like to find a more in-depth Witchcrafting book; purer in it's study of folklore and myth and practices and less Wiccan.


My first use of the new Multiquote. :)

[Zephyrstorm]

It's the Ellen Dugan Cottage Witchery book :)

Indeed - I think it'd be wonderful to have an in depth exploration of European folklore from almost any time.

Though the history debates around Wicca don't bother me that much - though I think ultimately it's not what's important - being a better person through the path and Walking the Path - talking the talk - that's what counts.

And Neato! multiquote. :lol: (didn't know about it until just now - I'm kinda... technically illiterate at times.)

Part of the problem that I see with...well, pretty much everything - once it gets popular, it gets dumbed down, and then the simpler version eventually becomes institutionalized. That's what we're seeing in the "Wiccan" books.
Z

[Nitefalle]

Perhaps we should work to come up with our own definitions for the Green path in this forum? Something that is general, but allows for everyone's UPG?

For me, as I said before, my definitions of "Green" pathworking involve working closely with "low magic", namely natural objects (stones, gems, plants, etc.) for charms, sachets, etc. To me, it is separate of pantheons/deities/religions and can be practiced by anyone.

How does that fit with everyone else's definitions?

[_Banbha_]

It's the Ellen Dugan Cottage Witchery book :) Oh, :bigredblu
I've only seen her Garden book. 8O


Indeed - I think it'd be wonderful to have an in depth exploration of European folklore from almost any time. Well, I've made a suggestion for a new forum or subforum for Folklore discussions in general for all traditions and cultures. If anyone wants to read more or put in a good word for the suggestion it's here:

http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137827 (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137827)


Part of the problem that I see with...well, pretty much everything - once it gets popular, it gets dumbed down, and then the simpler version eventually becomes institutionalized. That's what we're seeing in the "Wiccan" books.
ZThat's true. It happens with everything popular; but the neo-pagan section in the bookstore, even in a good bookstore, is embarassingly bad, with far too few gems, for such a book loving group in general.



Perhaps we should work to come up with our own definitions for the Green path in this forum? Something that is general, but allows for everyone's UPG?

For me, as I said before, my definitions of "Green" pathworking involve working closely with "low magic", namely natural objects (stones, gems, plants, etc.) for charms, sachets, etc. To me, it is separate of pantheons/deities/religions and can be practiced by anyone.

How does that fit with everyone else's definitions?

That's nice. I like it except for the term "low magic." I know it's only a technical term, but it's not low to me.

Mine fits closer to herbs, healing and connecting to the green and wild things, the cycles in/on the earth and and above in the sky. It's mystical, natural and a way of being. When I started the thread I opened with Susan Weed:
A Green Witch is a woman of power,
whose religion is her life,
whose life is her art,
and whose art is the wise use of the green.


Being a Green Witch is how I see things and process them. It's part of how I belong and connect. It's a matter of perspective. So for me it is not a practice with dieties and rituals, that comes more from my culture, Irish Recon. And yet it does also come from that too. :smile:

[Nitefalle]

Ya, I don't like that term either, that's why I put it in quotes. To imply that Ceremonial "high" magic is somehow better affronts me quite a bit, but that's just me. I recognize that they are terms used to describe different approaches to magic & ritual.

Yes, being a witch, and moreso a witch who uses 'green' methods, is a way for me to connect to nature, to connect to and honor the forces in nature that I don't understand but respect; I realize they make the plants grow, the rivers run, etc. I don't "command" or "use" the energies, I partake of them because I am part of nature, too. I put forth energy to help my garden grow, so it's a balance, a trade off. I come at it from my path, which blends my Celtic and Germanic roots, but that's not necessary for me to practice it. Indeed, I only capitulated to the Celto-Germanic path a couple of months ago, before that I was merely a witch searching for deity.

[Zephyrstorm]

For me, as I said before, my definitions of "Green" pathworking involve working closely with "low magic", namely natural objects (stones, gems, plants, etc.) for charms, sachets, etc. To me, it is separate of pantheons/deities/religions and can be practiced by anyone.

How does that fit with everyone else's definitions?
Hmm... *thinkthinkthink*
my definition is working with the natural powers in a way that reflects the cycles and flow of the region I'm in and in my own life, and may or may not include deities. It's a way of living and breathing, a way of being, and of moving along one's own journey.



That's true. It happens with everything popular; but the neo-pagan section in the bookstore, even in a good bookstore, is embarassingly bad, with far too few gems, for such a book loving group in general.

One can be book loving and still not recognize drivel from literature. ;)
Gods know I've been guilty of not knowing the difference. 8O Granted, I've never found any non-fiction book that didn't have something I disagreed with - and I've never found one that didn't have something I could put to my own purposes. :) even if it wasn't what the author intended. heh.




Mine fits closer to herbs, healing and connecting to the green and wild things, the cycles in/on the earth and and above in the sky. It's mystical, natural and a way of being. When I started the thread I opened with Susan Weed:
A Green Witch is a woman of power,
whose religion is her life,
whose life is her art,
and whose art is the wise use of the green.


Being a Green Witch is how I see things and process them. It's part of how I belong and connect. It's a matter of perspective. So for me it is not a practice with dieties and rituals, that comes more from my culture, Irish Recon. And yet it does also come from that too. :smile:

:nodnod: indeed. :smile:



Ya, I don't like that term either, that's why I put it in quotes. To imply that Ceremonial "high" magic is somehow better affronts me quite a bit, but that's just me. I recognize that they are terms used to describe different approaches to magic & ritual.

Yes, being a witch, and moreso a witch who uses 'green' methods, is a way for me to connect to nature, to connect to and honor the forces in nature that I don't understand but respect; I realize they make the plants grow, the rivers run, etc. I don't "command" or "use" the energies, I partake of them because I am part of nature, too. I put forth energy to help my garden grow, so it's a balance, a trade off.

I have always struggled with the idea of high v. low magic, and personally tend to use ceremonial magic instead of high and just magic for everything else. lol probably not the best solution.

As for the rest of what you say here, yes, I agree.
Working with nature, rather than power over nature. Not dominion, cooperation. 'course saying it like that sounds a little more hippy-ish than I am, but that's okay. this time. :ballonsmi
Z

[Nitefalle]

LOLOL Yes, it's a very fine line we walk between Green Pathwalker and granola hippy nut (no offense to hippies out there!). :lol:

[Zephyrstorm]

:lol: too true!

[Sage]

This (http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Green_Witch.htm) was a nice read on the Susun Weed site. I found Susun's site during the first trimester of my pregnancy. Love it and boy was it useful during that time in my life.

Green Wise Woman Healing :boing:
Sage

[Xirian]

Susun Weed has a wonderful site and forum and I am going to be taking her correspondence courses when I return from my vacation in South Dakota.

After having travelled to Woodstock, New York years ago, I can understand how she is so inspired to do this.

[Nitefalle]

Oh, I love Susun Weed!!! I always look forward to her articles in Sage Woman, and have checked out her website quite extensively. I wish she would put out a sort of general "herbalism info" book for those that can't afford classes or to actually intern at her place in New York state.

[Sage]

Nitefalle, she has an installment plan for her classes. $50 per month, may be that can be of help to you. Also I have read that she is very understanding and very accommodating. May be you could talk to her about your situation and interest in her classes?

Just a thought and my 2 cents.
Sage