The Planets Ruling The Zodiac Signs

[RedRose]

Hi all,

Until the modern era, Sun ruled Leo and Moon ruled Cancer and all the other planets ruled 2 signs each. There was the lower and higher octaves of Mercury (Gemini and Virgo), Venus (Taurus and Libra), Mars (Aries and Scorpio), Jupiter (Sag. and Pisces) and Saturn (Capricorn and Aquarius).

Since the discovery of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, Aquarians, Pisces and Scorpios have been almost completely taken over by the "Outer" newly discovered planet archetypes. Pisces are Neptunian for instance, yet frankly, here on earth, does that help Pisces? I often find that I push my Pisces friends/clents to follow their Jupiter, so that they can actually achieve their goals this life. Likewise, as an Aquarius ruled by Uranus, I notice that I am very weird and unconventional, and folks tend to marginalize me and other Aquarians as "kooks" or deviants. Practically speaking, befriending Saturn has helped me socially bridge and actually get stuff accomplished here on earth.

I won't speak for Scorpios and the role of Pluto and/or Charon and Pluto yet, but I basically think we should build from the ancient system, and let the new discoveries add in their new flavorings as they arise.

RedRose

[The High Queen of Faerie]

How would we do that? Any suggestions? Since we'd be out of astrological signs to assign new houses. :P

I don't anything we have now should be CHANGED directly - just perhaps built upon. Though that in itself seems incredibly artificial - 'oh so let's say.... this new planet symbolises, uh... musical interests! yeah, that sounds great!'

[plumedsnake]

I am interested in knowing how people view the planets and how the defination of the planets is expressed in the signs. Let's take Venus for starters. What is it that Venus confers to an individual and how do we see these things in Taurus and Libra?

[RedRose]

Hi The High Queen of Faerie,

Astrology springs from the universal unconscious and it evolves. We each play our part in that evolution but it is a greater "We" who has the power, not me and thee. I experience that at its core astrology assumes that the Creation and the Creator are One and the same. Astrology can't work unless the Great Caster And Sourcer Of Scopes exists; or maybe the cosmos is a big machine? But no. Astrologically speaking, reality is a dream and symbols matter.

The fact that Pluto is smaller than we thought and that it has a partner, does change our perceptions of reality. What that MEANS we will see as we go along.

Chiron is a mere asteroid and it has not yet reached it's full circle since its discovery in 1977. Chiron has not yet experienced Chiron's own Chiron return. But I am in MY Chiron Return and I have a lot to say about what that is like. My experience is joining with many others and books are being written about what the experience of Chiron brings. It is believed that Chiron (rather the Chiron archetype) is teaching us.

So as Chiron entered Aquarius and came into the last square of his own R. Chiron Return AND R. Pluto conjuncted Galactic Center, while Saturn is opposite Neptune...all these BIG astrological happenings, happening all at once, has CHANGED the nature of Pluto.

Since Pluto rules the Dark Side, this will probably play out in a positive way - or so I am predicting.

We will see. We have a ring-side seat.

RedRose

[RedRose]

<<I am interested in knowing how people view the planets and how the defination of the planets is expressed in the signs. Let's take Venus for starters. What is it that Venus confers to an individual and how do we see these things in Taurus and Libra?>> plumedsnake

Hi plumedsnake,

Here is a start:

Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo - communication and research - MENTAL

Venus rules Taurus and Libra - pleasure, love and beauty and art - YIN

Mars rules Aries and Scorpio - overt action , covert action - YANG

Jupiter rules Sage and Fish - outer adventure, inner adventure - SPIRITUAL

Saturn rules Capricorn and Aquariums - builders and inventors - CREATIVE

Sun rules Leo - outer personality - PAPA

Moon rules Cancer - inner personality -MAMA

RedRose

[plumedsnake]

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[plumedsnake]

Mercury rules Gemini and Virgo - communication and research - MENTAL

Venus rules Taurus and Libra - pleasure, love and beauty and art - YIN


Yes but, how does the pleasure, love and beauty and art manifest itself in Taurus and Libra. What's the difference between taurus and libra. Would someone with a strong influence of Libra be more tuned to pleasure, love beauty and art? Can you back that up with cases? Ie. the charts of famous people that we can all study and compare notes.
I am kinda playing devil's advocate a bit because though I agree with you I want to test what I think I know by taking the other side.

What makes venus yin and mars Yang?

IF you were to sum up venus in one word or one principle what would it be?

Why is Venus not mental (you say that mercury is mental)?

I would disagree that mercury was communication, because though in the guise of Gemini he does communicate, as Virgo he can be very reticent. REsearch? yes I would agree although I would use the word curiousity. I think that Mercury drives us to seek novelties.

[PeatBog]

Yes but, how does the pleasure, love and beauty and art manifest itself in Taurus and Libra. What's the difference between taurus and libra. Would someone with a strong influence of Libra be more tuned to pleasure, love beauty and art?

Here's my take on this: Venus in Taurus is pleasure, love, etc. in an earthy mode, that is, the earth mother, ruled by the Star. (The waters of Isis are poured onto the earth.) Venus in Libra is the same, but transformed into higher Art(Thoth card title) (air sign). (The water is juggled in the air between two cups.)

[Quiet_Storm]

As of right now, I'm sticking with Traditional Rulerships. It's much less confusing when delineating a chart. With the added Modern Rulerships (i.e. Uranus for Aquarius, Neptune for Pisces, Pluto for Scorpio), I think of them more as co-rulers or higher octaves than rulers of the signs. I do see their association with these particular Zodiac Signs. There hasn't been as much study with the Modern Rulerships as the Traditional ones. It doesn't mean Mars relates to Scorpio any more or less than Pluto does, but we've seen the relationship between Mars & Scorpio for a much longer period of time. Just my $.02.

[Xander67]

I think it is too arbitrary and too hasty to yank scorpio with mars.. it doesnt wash with me...

as I said before, I shall continue to cast my charts and do my work with pluto as is/was before last weeks facade of a conference...

we will just have to disagree on the rulership...

[RedRose]

From the internet:

http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/miscarticles/venus_rules.htm
Venus ruling Taurus - Our Internal Balance Sheet

Libra and Taurus may seem as different as chalk and cheese, yet they are both ruled by the same planet: Venus. The mythology of Venus seems to reflect this dual nature. The Greeks saw Aphrodite as a goddess of love and beauty, which reflects Libra traits. The Romans saw Venus as an agricultural goddess of gardens and vineyards, which sounds more like Taurus.

Taurus is an Earth sign, and as such is connected to the body and the physical world. The Taurus side of Venus is rooted in sensuality, pleasure and celebrating the blessings of the material world. This includes money, possessions and resources of all kinds that collectively represent what you "have." The Taurus bull's horn becomes a Horn of Plenty, overflowing with Venus' gift of luscious abundance.

What we "have" reflects what we're worth and what we value. But material worth is not the same as self-worth, even though we often equate the two. If our bottom line is low, our self-esteem may become deflated too. Our "things" can become a mirror that we take a bit too literally. In that sense, Venus and Taurus also symbolise our sense of self-worth. The Taurus side of Venus is our internal balance sheet that tallies up the gains and losses in our sense of self. It is what we "have" ― what we have going for us, the resources we can rely on. It is whatever we can use to barter for what we want, which might be tangible (like money) or intangible (like the talents, abilities, credentials and people we can draw on when we need them).

It is also what we "have not" ― the qualities, gifts and advantages that we lack or feel we don't have enough of. At its worst, this can produce a kind of poverty mentality where we tend to assume that our heart's desire will always be just out of reach. Alternatively, to ensure that this does not happen, we may become so obsessed by material accumulation and possessiveness about what we "have," that we lose sight of the inherent personal worth and value that are our birthright.

At its best, our experience of Taurus-Venus can also take a very down-to-earth view of both the tangible and intangible things in life. Venus' Taurus nature can see the value and worth inside any person, thing or situation, and can appreciate it for its true worth. Venus can also show us how to achieve a feeling of security and groundedness in the ways of the material world. Ultimately this is not done by becoming a workaholic ― it's done by learning to appreciate what we have and to be satisfied with "enough."

[Fluffmeister]

I think it is too arbitrary and too hasty to yank scorpio with mars.. it doesnt wash with me...

as I said before, I shall continue to cast my charts and do my work with pluto as is/was before last weeks facade of a conference...

we will just have to disagree on the rulership...

Hasty? We've had over 2000 years of Scorpio being associated with Mars! That doesn't make it right necessarily, but it's not a case of Pluto *always* being associated with Scorpio prior to last week - Pluto is a relative newcomer. When my mother was born, he hadn't even been discovered!

[business voodoo]

Chiron is a mere asteroid and it has not yet reached it's full circle since its discovery in 1977.

i would also point out that we have yet to see pluto through all of the signs too ... the re-emergence of the pluto debate that raged when it was first discovered and being integrated into the astrological scene in the first place is coming back ... and it moves direct in a couple of days ... right on the 6th? ... i've been moving and haven't looked at my calendars, but a discussion on rulerships should be taken like a discussion of the rulership of everything ... 'to everything there is a season' ... that means different things at different times ... and something will change and/or be different for different people at different times of life.

for me ... venus and taurus has also been problem for me ... venus never worked with the 2nd house or taurus ... same with mars/scorpio and mercury/virgo and definitely jupiter/pisces i just never even considered that combo to be a valid option

... and what about saturn and aquarius, only IF co-ruling with uranus, then it makes perfect sense; but alone ... i don't see it.

[KEishin]

I can see the logic in the older systems, but in some instances I don't think the doubling up always applies. Could just be my perspective, so who knows. Co-ruling is probably the way to go.

Mercury with Virgo always puzzled me. While that sign carries the intelligence of Mercury nicely, it doesn't seem to have much in the way of his changability and quirkness. Venus in Taurus never quite fit either, but I think those two mesh better than some others. If we ever do non-geocentric astrology as a standard, then I vote for Taurus to be ruled by the Earth. :)

But Mars/Scorpio, Jupiter/Pisces and Saturn/Aquarius always made perfect sense to me. Think about how Scorpio gets when it has something to get done. It throws 120% of itself into a project and never thinks of giving up or flattering. That determination to succeed has Mars written all over it. Jupiter - have you every met a really flighty Sagittarius? They aren't very far off from Pisces in that respect. Both have a deep interest in what isn't seen, such as religion, spirituality, psychism and such. Sag is much more social and jovial than Pisces but I've also seen some very jovial Pisces types. Saturn - took a bit longer, but Aqaurius is the antithesis of Saturn normally, or what happens when you build up all the pressue to conform and then lose it for a while.

[plumedsnake]

For me to keep from getting more and more perplexed by these posts I need to know what exactly people understand the planets as meaning as well as the signs and then why they think that certain signs do not work with certain planets.

From my understanding of Saturn it works pretty damn well with aquarius just as jupiter works with pisces and mars with scorpio.

If saturn organises in space and time creating a cosmos and an all encompassing vision based on certain principles (or laws) then it fits perfectly with capricorn and aquarius. This organisational ability it confers when fixed gives ideologies and visions of how the world is organised, should be organised or could be organised. The fixedness gives it a tenacity that allows it to withstand any contradicting circumstances. When the same energy is made more flexible as in cardinal signs it manifests as Capricorn which has organisational ability too and ideology however is more capable of adaptation hence capricorn may be seen as utilitarian because it's concepts and ideals only hold for as long as they work. The nonsense about capricorn being stuck in one gear is just not true. Save for jupiter and mercury all the planets have two modes of expression, Fixed and flexible (which is also called cardinal).
A proper understanding of the most basic principles of the Zodiac would help to eliminate such tosh, IMHO.

[Fluffmeister]

For me to keep from getting more and more perplexed by these posts I need to know what exactly people understand the planets as meaning as well as the signs and then why they think that certain signs do not work with certain planets.

From my understanding of Saturn it works pretty damn well with aquarius just as jupiter works with pisces and mars with scorpio.


I can understand the confusion; when I started learning astrology, we used the "keywords" method. Write down the keywords for Mercury, and you get: communication, swiftness, letters, writing and so on. Write down the keywords for Gemini and you get communication, letters, writing, conversation. Write down the keywords for Virgo and you get precision, discrimination (in the positive sense of sorting the wheat from the chaff, I don't mean things like race or sex discrimination) and health. The Mercury keywords sound a lot like Gemini, and not much like Virgo.

However, I think the reason for this is our re-invention of various houses, signs and planets which came about as a result of Zip Dobyns' "astrological alphabet" where she linked signs, planets and houses using a number - so "letter three" as she called it referred to the third sign (Gemini), the ruler of the third sign (Mercury) and the third house. I'm beginning to think that this clever astrological idea, which is great as a simplistic teaching aid, has become distorted and we've lost a lot by using it. It's because of this idea that house=sign=planet that we end up with such travesties as the fourth house being mother (the fourth house has always been father, and no one prior to 1960 ever thought differently), or Leo having an affinity with the 5th house (traditionally the house of children, whereas Leo is a barren sign totally incompatible with children - hands up if you think putting kids into a lion's cage is a neat idea).

As a result of this we've redefined Mercury to mean all the third house stuff, and redefined the third house to be all the Mercury stuff. Say "third house" to lots of modern astrologers, and they'll say "communication", rather than "siblings", the first thing that springs to mind for a traditional astrologer. Communications certainly *is* part of the rich third house melee, but it's not the be all and end all. Similarly, Hermes (the Greek equivalent of Mercury) is associated with healing and the symbol of the Caduceus - the two snakes intertwined, and symbol of the British Medical Association. Mercury is about mental activity, and Virgo's qualities of discrimination fit that perfectly.



If saturn organises in space and time creating a cosmos and an all encompassing vision based on certain principles (or laws) then it fits perfectly with capricorn and aquarius. This organisational ability it confers when fixed gives ideologies and visions of how the world is organised, should be organised or could be organised. The fixedness gives it a tenacity that allows it to withstand any contradicting circumstances. When the same energy is made more flexible as in cardinal signs it manifests as Capricorn which has organisational ability too and ideology however is more capable of adaptation hence capricorn may be seen as utilitarian because it's concepts and ideals only hold for as long as they work. The nonsense about capricorn being stuck in one gear is just not true. Save for jupiter and mercury all the planets have two modes of expression, Fixed and flexible (which is also called cardinal).
A proper understanding of the most basic principles of the Zodiac would help to eliminate such tosh, IMHO.

All planets (except Moon and Sun) have two modes of expression, masculine and feminine. Curiously, modern astrologers take what they see as an archetypically male planet - Saturn - and assign him solely to a female sign (Capricorn). This is because the astrological alphabet links Aquarius to the planet Uranus and the 11th house, so Aquarius is all about being sociable and quirky. To traditional astrologers, Aquarius was *fixed* (not flexible) air - single-minded, dogmatic and something of a loner. It's the same thinking that's made many modern astrologers put sex in the house of death - "I suppose it could have been worse - they could have put it in the tenth", quipped John Frawley, who fulminates about these modern attributions!

So yes, I agree we need to think much more deeply about what the planets and signs mean; the astrological alphabet has some benefits to beginners (though I'm beginning to doubt even that now) but to use it as the final answer has done much to damage modern astrology.

[plumedsnake]

So yes, I agree we need to think much more deeply about what the planets and signs mean; the astrological alphabet has some benefits to beginners (though I'm beginning to doubt even that now) but to use it as the final answer has done much to damage modern astrology.


At the end of the day it seems that there are certain things that do not allow for shortcuts. Nothing beats understanding the basic principles, ie the elements and what they mean and also the modes (fixed, cardinal, and mutable) and what those mean. Without these basics, yes you can learn a lot of keywords and be able to talk about (and around) the zodiac (mainly with people who don't know anything about it) but ultimately you will just be huffing and puffing a lot of hot air.

[RedRose]

Hello All,

So many great insights. I must agree that Pluto is still very powerful and profound - hooked up to Galactic Center - alive and well!

Big healing hug to the Fluffmeister! I am so thrilled to read that you are being a leader among astrologers. Pluto is sure making your face stand out. Ouch!

And Monk is so right about that little bitty asteroid Juno and how she makes things go big boom - who would have thunk? So is size the key issue? Wee Juno seems linked to big terrorist events. Pluto may have a partner in Charon and be smaller than other objects in space, but I picked up Steven Forrest's book on Pluto and wow, deep truth there.

Meanwhile Ceres, the great Mama (Pluto's Mom-in-Law), is not called an asteroid anymore but rather a dwarf planet. This all happened while She is conjunct Neptune. Soon as she moves out of conjunction I suspect we will start to understand what all this exciting new mystery might mean.

Wacky times, but then Chiron and Neptune are in Aquarius, so what do we expect?

Uranus certainly is very Aquarius like. Still at the same time, I think both Capricorns and Aquariums are here to leave something concrete and Saturnian behind them. They are both "builders" - Aquarians are simply far more futuristic, and wild-eyed than Capricorns.

As for who rules Virgo and also Libra, I have often experimented with the idea that Chiron rules Virgo and the Goddesses (the asteroids) rule Libra.

RedRose

[business voodoo]

Mercury with Virgo always puzzled me. While that sign carries the intelligence of Mercury nicely, it doesn't seem to have much in the way of his changability and quirkness.

interesting ... being virgo, the 'changling' nature of mercury was the only part of him i felt was being the thrust behind the mutable virgo (albeit after a wet blanket had been thrown on top of the energy) ... but that's about all i attributed to the connection mercury and virgo ...

the 'quick' intelligence of mercury i never felt jived with the more 'long winded intelligence' i find with most virgos ... they seem to know everything about everything ... not the gemini mercury-type intelligence which is quick & not too patient to explain (more like 'here's the answer, don't ask me to explain') ... where explanations are the only kind of answer i think virgos are allowed to give.

[RedRose]

RE: Mercury

Freud talked about folks having "anal retentive" personalities and also "anal expulsive" personalities. Certainly we all think "Virgos" when we think "anal retentive" or "anal" for short. Nobody talks anout "anal expulsive" folk but the description fits Geminis well. They talk a lot, have 15 thoughts for every one thought the rest of us have, they are generous, ambitious, creative and can be "loose cannons" - so to speak.

RedRose

[plumedsnake]

RE: Mercury

Freud talked about folks having "anal retentive" personalities and also "anal expulsive" personalities. Certainly we all think "Virgos" when we think "anal retentive" or "anal" for short. Nobody talks anout "anal expulsive" folk but the description fits Geminis well. They talk a lot, have 15 thoughts for every one thought the rest of us have, they are generous, ambitious, creative and can be "loose cannons" - so to speak.

RedRose


Bet I can think more thoughts standing on my head with my hands behind my back.

[business voodoo]

RE: Mercury

Freud talked about folks having "anal retentive" personalities and also "anal expulsive" personalities. Certainly we all think "Virgos" when we think "anal retentive" or "anal" for short. Nobody talks anout "anal expulsive" folk but the description fits Geminis well. They talk a lot, have 15 thoughts for every one thought the rest of us have, they are generous, ambitious, creative and can be "loose cannons" - so to speak.

RedRose

i would suggest that the anal tendancies freud talked about would be indictive more on the sign and aspects to the IC/MC line rather than a person's sun sign ... i don't know too many anal retentive virgos ... me and my husband included ... although i would put him in that anal expulsive category as he talks more than any gemini could possible ever dream about talking!

[RedRose]

Hi business voodoo,

I find that I am not, in truth, wishing to put Freud anywhere except up on the shelf of history books.

Back to lower octive (Gemini) and higher octive (Virgo) both ruled by Mercury energy. I agree with Fluffmeister that Mercury is described in the books as being so Gemini like and the Virgo side of Mercury is not written about.

Still when I ask myself what Geminis and Virgos have in common, I suddenly see all my Gemini and Virgo friends yearning for.......IMPUT! They gotta KNOW. Geminis and Virgos are crazy and fanatic about more information and better information systems.

RedRose

[business voodoo]

Still when I ask myself what Geminis and Virgos have in common, I suddenly see all my Gemini and Virgo friends yearning for.......IMPUT! They gotta KNOW. Geminis and Virgos are crazy and fanatic about more information and better information systems.

and that's probably the FIRST thing i would agree with relating Mercury to Virgo ... but then, the higher octave of Mercury is Uranus ... and virgos are all about service to others (which uranus would be more about than mercury) ... so taking input and dealing with it for the collective ... gemini i find are "get information for me to use for me" ... virgos, "absorb information for me to use for everything."

as i have uranus 1 degree conjunct my sun in virgo, i always felt like my need for unending input came from uranus more than my sun sign ruler of mercury.

i also see mercury as being the 'messenger' from the source of the sun ... e.g., being the closest planet to the sun, it is the "dumping ground" for all the sun (ego, self) energy to flow into and then mercury is to transport it and disseminate it as quickly as possible. so its very 'me' centric and virgos are synthesizers and/or analyzers of not just internal information, but external information too -- i find virgos way more detached from the ego than geminis.

geminis i always find their self-centered (and i do not mean that in a bad way) focus is admirable because they always use the information for themselves ... coming from the self and all the external inforamtion is used to help the self express; virgos more get the information and how to use it for everything we see around us and even the next couple of generations to boot ... but perhaps that's the difference between the air sign and the earth sign ...

interesting online article of 'octaves' ... http://members.tripod.com/~Trismegistos/Octave-2.html

but ... freud is interesting to read if you take it from the context of his own life and then say, 'yeah, i guess if i had his life i would think that too' ... his writings and teachings really helped me understand how someone can have such a different perspective of the "why's" of personalities and motivations ... he, in fact, is the person that has helped me understand the human 'need' or even 'drive' for war and separation from one another. but yes, beyond that, a shelf is a nice place once you've at least read his work and considered that point of view ... i also think he is helpful to understand the 'skew' of power within personalities and experiences that have now been psyche/genetically embedded in all humans who have been living on this planet for generations.

[RedRose]

Thanks business voodoo,

Lots and lots of wisdom in what you write.

Freud was a Victorian old goat; but sure, a genius in his time.

Again, the more I hang out with Chiron energy, the more I feel that Chiron rules Virgo. The Virgo archetype is the Doctor or healer, but astrologer, teacher, and warrior are also very Virgo-est. Only Barbara Hand Clow agrees with me, and she is a maverick, mucho woo woo, not fully accepted by the other notable astrologers. I have Chiron at 0* Aquarius and Barbara says we Chiron in Aquarians will greet the ETs! I knew it would be me!

Meanwhile Jeff Green says that the Virgo/Pisces axis is the S and M axis. He also asserts that Virgos flip from being "good" to "bad", they put themselves on purifying regimes and then they fall off the wagon and binge. You agree or not?

RedRose

[business voodoo]

hmmmm ... i have thought about the chiron long and hard ... perhaps because he is the 'bridge' or 'key' between uranus and saturn, he gets a lot of virgo flavor to him, but i find chiron to be the key in the current age we are moving to ... e.g., that of aquarius ...

so rather than the attaching to the sign, i view chiron as the "ruler" or "leader," more appropriately, of the tranisition we are making right now. after all, the wounding of the age of pisces, with its 'separation' motis operendi (just looking at the glyph for the sign that we use and the original, true glyph of pisces of vesica piscis ... it is one of separation of the whole, not the combination of the whole) ... has been perpetuated throughout the age of pisces ... war has been the underlying theme of the past 2000 years, the entire age of pisces. what is more humanly unnatural than the murder of the self one does in the killing of another human?

i do, however, believe that virgo is one of the main astrological signs that supports and naturally crusades for the energy of chiron, so perhaps 'exhalted' in virgo is a definite placement if feel, but definitely not as its ruler ... chiron would never be a ruler, i do not think.

the ability to heal one's own's wound would truly bring us to the individualization and collective place of the more positive view of aquarius. i view the co-rulers of pisces (jupiter and neptune) to personify the journey of individualization that will lead us to a collective consciousness of individuals that merge together as one.

chiron is in essence the story of jesus, ironically. the healing of the self, the finding of truth of the 'i am' within ... not that too many christians can understand it, but in essence, the story of chiron and its energy is very much told in the story of jesus and what he taught. ... also, not ironically, although they have NO CLUE what it all means, the symbol of early christianity was the in tact vesica piscis ... the two that became one ... but the need for individualization is what allows two complete circles to willingly and consciously come together, overlap and create the vesica pisces ...

a collective made of up of whole, healed people fully individualized merging with others of the same, truly the age of aquarius in its most highest levels ...

chiron, the leader for the transition, but, i don't see chiron as a ruler of virgo or any of the signs.

As for what Green says about virgos ... hmmm ... not me nor any of the other virgos i know (and i have more than 7 in my immediate close life ... including myself, my husband, his father, my best friends from high school and college). can we be auster, yes definitely. i fast several times a year, but it less to do with being a virgo and more to do with spiritual development, politics and what's happening on the planet ... virgos are some of the only people i know who can quit something cold turkey and it works.

virgos, being earthly and mutable will move from one side to another, dive into something for a while than back away or leave it ... but usually its because something was planted, the time for attention to it is over, and now, just let it grow, let the land rest, wait and come back to it later.

so, while i appreciate virgos being on the opposition of pisces (my mother and my moon placement tropically), which is why perhaps people like to put chiron as a potential ruler of virgo, and the considering the perspective of virgo as being the opposite of pisces, i think there is a whole school of thought that have an understanding of pisces that is tempered and indoctrinated by the judeo/christian patriarchial perspective of this age, and looking at it from that point of view, i see how green and others take that stand and position ... and i do, similar to how i view freud, believe it is valid and operating for many, many people on the planet.

[KEishin]

While I agree Virgo doesn't entirely fit with Mercury, I've never been comfortable with assigning it to Chiron either. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong years from now, so then I'll start looking for recipes for humble pie. :D

Basically, while the wounded healer myth fits Chiron I don't see a major correlation to Virgo. First off, when Chiron is in Virgo I usually see someone who is obsessed over their imperfections - "OMG, my hair is out of place and I have a zit on my nose! I'm horrible and ugly and nobody will ever love me!" Usually a planet(oid) in the sign of it's dignity express itself more positively.

Second, Chiron seems more involved with inner stimulation than Virgo and tends to make for some exciting transits (which isn't totatally Virgoan IMHO.) I think about such exciting times as the Chiron square, or as RedRose can attest to - the Chiron Return. Now that said, I know Virgo is more than the timid librarian of the zodiac that so many make her out to be - those folk tend to be witty, insightful and sensitive with a decidedly earthy sensuality. (Virgin doesn't mean a lack of sensuality, at least in the original understanding of the word.) But not very exciting unless they have other influences going on. (Granted I'm an Aries Moon and think everyone is boring, but still . . . :abanana: )

Third, Chiron is more than just a healer and teacher - into warfare, poetry, ethics, etc. Unless they're strategists you don't tend to see Virgo on the battlefield - it's too icky and germy. Even if the average Virgo isn't a neat freak they still have standards of cleanliness. (Even the messiest Virgo takes care of their appearance a little. Most of those still carry a comb with them.)

So to use the keywords of the signs, my thinking is this: Chiron could be for more than one sign. Chiron does such things as synthesize (Virgo), balance/create wholeness (Libra), dies and gets reborn (Scorpio), plus was a teacher (Sagittarius). So why Virgo? If we're going to focus on one aspect of the guy, why that one?
<< curious

[RedRose]

Hi KEishin,

I'm exploring, not in the least attached to any of my opinions about astrology, which is one of the reasons I enjoy it.

But to answer you question, Virgos, at their best, seem "called". They are called to be healers, or called into service. They seek utter perfection, but fail, of course. Chiron wasn't like other centaurs, he was called by a higher energy, to be a healer, an astrologer, a spiritual teacher and warrior etc. He is a doctor.

And I dunna agree that Virgos aren't warriors, Joan of Ark was a Virgo - yes?Well I imagine she was!

Virgos dull? Not when I'm around they aren't! But that is because I enjoy dancing across a Virgo's lawn while s/he is busy, on hands and knees, ironing the grass. They perk right up when they hyperventilate.

RedRose

businessvoodoo - I am not speaking about you, of course. Not with Uranus conjunct Sun in Virgo. Grass wouldn't dare get wrinkly around you!

[KEishin]

I enjoy dancing across a Virgo's lawn while s/he is busy, on hands and knees, ironing the grass. They perk right up when they hyperventilate.
:lol:
Spoken like a true Aquarian!

[business voodoo]

businessvoodoo - I am not speaking about you, of course. Not with Uranus conjunct Sun in Virgo. Grass wouldn't dare get wrinkly around you!


heck, my pluto side of the sun conjunction wouldn't care if the grass died ... but yes, perhaps the uranus side of the conjunction would dare the grass to wrinkle, but the pluto side let's it all go fairly easily (when it so chooses!) ... i'm manic is such a freaky way, my husband, more of a true 'typical' virgo calls me "aquarian" when he's *trying* to insult me ...

of course, i LOVE being called aquarian ... i get to go out and dance on my lawn in the rain ... of course, i only have rocks because i live in the desert ... but when we do get those thundershowers, we do dance in the street in the rain (my daughter and i anyway) while our neighbors peek out their windows at us ... perhaps its my leo ascendent and her leo moon that gives us that liberty !!!