Christian or Catholic?

[Liberty]

Okay, I thought I had this all figured out in my head but now that I've thought about it the past couple of years. I think I've been getting it wrong.
I've always assumed that Catholicism was a branch of Christianity, catholics are consider Christians but not all Christians are considered Catholic.
Now I'm confused.

Which one came first?

I've always considered, Methodist, Protestants, etc. to be Christian Christians (except for Lutherans, to me they lean more towards Catholicism).

I assumed Catholicism came from Christianity because well it's called Christianity. Where as Catholicism is called just that.

I guess it never really occured to me before while sitting in class but the last year or so I've been taking classes on European politics and with that comes European history.

I know the whole thing about Emperor Constantine starting out as pagan then converting to Christianity and making the Roman Empire more Christian tolerant.

Then jump forward decades later to the whole deal with Henry VIII and breaking from the Catholic church, forming the church of England (protestant).

So again my question is what came first? which came from which?
Was the Christianity that Constantine accepted what we consider Catholicism today? That's what I'm confused about.

I tried googling it, too much reading. I thought it would be easier if I just asked someone. :hahugh:

If Catholicism was the original form of Christianity why is it called Catholicism?

[Cat]

Catholicism came first. Reformation Protestants split off in the 1500s.

[Liberty]

Catholicism came first. Reformation Protestants split off in the 1500s.

So why is it call Catholicism and not Christianity?
How come Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc. are all considered Christians but not all are considered Catholic?

[Shanti]

Catholic, Lutheran, Protestants, etc, are all forms of Christianity.
They all believe in Jesus Christ, but how they practice their belief, and the systems they have within their belief, is different from form to form.

Asatru, Wicca, Druidry, etc, are all pagan belief systems. (pagan meaning not of mainstream religion) Wiccans are pagans but not all pagans are Wiccans.

Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic.

[Cat]

The early christians were Catholic, by our lights, but they called themselves Christians. It wasn't till the Reformation and Martin Luther that they had a need for a more precise name to distinguish themselve from other Christians. Earlier breakaway Christians were called heretics and destroyed, so there was no need for a linguistic seperation.

However, I believe the East-West Schism predated the Reformation, and I'm not sure how that worked out in terms of nomenclature.

[Ceres]

So why is it call Catholicism and not Christianity?
How come Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc. are all considered Christians but not all are considered Catholic?

I think the name is just semantics. "Catholic" roughly translates to whole or universal. When different branches started shooting off catholocism, I assume since much of the reason they branched off was from what they felt was a lack of christ's teachings in the religion, they called themselves christian or protestant christian to show their emphasis.

Growing up catholic, I can tell you that catholics see themselves as the original christ based religion (though there were some exceptions in the centuries following the death of Jesus), but that other christian branches see catholics as either a misguided branch of christianity or even more likely, not even "true" christians.

[MariThorn]

First off, Catholic means universal and is a word that was applied to the Church sometime in the early Medieval times. Catholicism is a branch of Christianity and is the oldest branch in existence. It was founded by Jesus when he gave St. Peter the two sets of keys. St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, and therefore is considered the first Pope. (Note that the Church in Jerusalem did exist before Rome and that Christians were first called by that term in Antioch . . . most discussions do revolve around Rome though.) All Magesterium or Canon Law is passed down through apostolic succession, along with the right to become Bishops and Priests. What this means is that Peter made his successor Bishop and they continued in the process. Proof of this is that St. Paul named St. Timothy to take his place in many places. Therefore, Catholics do see themselves as the apostolic successor and true Church. In truth all other forms of Christianity are heresies, and prayer is offered daily for them to return to the Mother Church.

Protestantism came about during the Reformation and all forms of it have different beliefs about Christianity and what it is supposed to be. (Here is a big difference . . . all Catholics will agree with the Canon Law and what the Vatican says . . . hence it is universal.) The Protestant churches are branches of Christianity but are not part of the original Church because of their schismatic beliefs. Therefore, Protestants are not allowed to partake of Eucharist at Catholic churches. Techanically it is a big mess because people couldn't agree back in the Renaissance and wanted to do their own thing. (Which the Bible clearly teaches against.)

The best comparison is that Catholics and Protestants are all Christian, but hardliners on both sides will say that their branch is the only way. Much like the different branches of Wicca and those who swear their branch is the oldest and purest form.

Hope that wasn't to confuzzling. :nyah:

Marithorn

[Brightshores]

The words "catholic" and "orthodox," in terms of religious usage, both mean basically the same thing - they are both claiming to uphold the True Faith. I always wondered about this, because growing up as a Lutheran, our services included references to the "true apostolic and catholic church."

From a historical viewpoint, the way it happened was:

Christ died (and apparently came back again) ca. 30-35 AD. His followers spread throughout the Roman world over the next few centuries, chiefly at first via cities and military installations. (There are other very early but non-Roman branches of Christianity, such as the Copts in Ethiopia, but we won't get into that now - too complicated. :) )

In the 300s AD, the Roman empire split in half - the western half centered at Rome, the eastern half centered at Constantinople (Istanbul). The western half collapsed as a centralized government in 476, but the eastern half (the Byzantine Empire) lasted for another thousand years. Over the next several hundred years, the belief systems of the western and eastern Christians began to diverge. (This is the short-short version. :hahugh: See http://www.roman-empire.net/ for more information.)

During the 10th and 11th centuries AD, there was a very serious doctrinal dispute over the Latin word "filioque," which means "and the son." Western Christians (Catholics) believed the Holy Spirit came from both the Father and the Son, and Orthodox Christians believed that the Holy Spirit only came from the Father. Seems like a small thing, but it went straight to the heart of the Christian definition of God and the Trinity, and this was a major factor that led to the Great Schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Catholicism. The Catholic Pope and the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch excommunicated each other in 1054, and the churches have been separated ever since. (If you're interested in this particular theological argument, just Google "filioque" and you'll get tons of very dense theology.)

Others have done a good job of explaining the 15th-17th century Reformations - basically, there were several religious and political disagreements, conflicts, and wars, resulting firstly in the Lutheran faith, then the Anglican-Episcopal, then a whole pile of other interpretations followed. Protestantism has since fragmented into hundreds of denominations, which are basically unified only by the fact that they are Christian, but neither Roman Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox.

Hope this helps!

[Toby Stimpson]

Well theres all different levels isnt there? I mean catholicism is High religion....as is it's english cousin Church of England Anglicanism. I think that the distinction is made in church doctrine...as well as where the church draws it's power. The Catholic church draws theological doctrine from several sources, such as the Catholic Bible, and the Apocrypha.

Now to say that Catholicism is the oldest form of Christianity is not entirely true...as there are the Gnostics and the Mystics. However it is the oldest form of mainstream organized branch. Then came the orthadox Byzantine Church...followed by the protestants...and then followed by the Anglicans. And after that the huge diverse dispora of other churches.

[Ceres]

It turns into quite a tangled mess, once you get into the gory details....

[Tigerlily]

Catholicism came first. Reformation Protestants split off in the 1500s.

Wasn't it Orthodox?

[Liberty]

Thanks everyone!

Wow, so confusing. :lol:
Think I got it though.

One more question, as someone else mentioned before and I've read this else where too. So the west were under the Catholic church, so what were the east?

Is the Greek Orthodox church the same thing as the Catholic church?

[Tigerlily]

No, it isn't Liberty. Wikipedia and Google it. It's much more traditional than the Catholic church.

[Liberty]

No, it isn't Liberty. Wikipedia and Google it. It's much more traditional than the Catholic church.

Okay, I didn't think so but wanted to make sure.

[Zibblsnrt]

So why is it call Catholicism and not Christianity?

In their own mind, the two were the same thing. Christianity was the One True Church; calling it the Christian church was simply redundant to Catholic theology. The term "Catholic Church" basically means "the universal church," which is how Catholics saw their belief. The Orthodox churches have the same thing going on, they just use a different word.


Wasn't it Orthodox?

The Orthodox churches split off from Rome in the great schism, which was I think 1054. The Protestant split began in 1517. There were of course numerous smaller "heresies" splitting off here and there prior to and since then, but those are the major ones.


One more question, as someone else mentioned before and I've read this else where too. So the west were under the Catholic church, so what were the east?

If you draw a line through Europe running (very, very roughly) from Poland's eastern border to Albania, you'll get a rough border of the main old-style Christian denominations; west of that is predominantly Roman Catholic, and east of that is predominantly Orthodox churches inspired by the Byzantine or, more recently, Russian example.

There's exceptions on both sides; for instance, Ukraine has an "eastern Catholic" community of churches which have full communion with Rome but who carry a great deal of Orthodox style to their liturgy and so on, there's Orthodox communities throughout western Europe, and of course Protestant denominations all over the place. Those are mainly concentrated in northern Europe. Before the 1500s, of course, there were only really the big two in Europe.

[Liberty]

In their own mind, the two were the same thing. Christianity was the One True Church; calling it the Christian church was simply redundant to Catholic theology. The term "Catholic Church" basically means "the universal church," which is how Catholics saw their belief. The Orthodox churches have the same thing going on, they just use a different word.



The Orthodox churches split off from Rome in the great schism, which was I think 1054. The Protestant split began in 1517. There were of course numerous smaller "heresies" splitting off here and there prior to and since then, but those are the major ones.



If you draw a line through Europe running (very, very roughly) from Poland's eastern border to Albania, you'll get a rough border of the main old-style Christian denominations; west of that is predominantly Roman Catholic, and east of that is predominantly Orthodox churches inspired by the Byzantine or, more recently, Russian example.

There's exceptions on both sides; for instance, Ukraine has an "eastern Catholic" community of churches which have full communion with Rome but who carry a great deal of Orthodox style to their liturgy and so on, there's Orthodox communities throughout western Europe, and of course Protestant denominations all over the place. Those are mainly concentrated in northern Europe. Before the 1500s, of course, there were only really the big two in Europe.

Thanks!