We're Pagans not Neo-Pagans

[Hærfest Leah]

I was on this page today and I saw the list of religions & the #of adherents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

.....Pagans & neo-pagans are listed seperately and Asatruar/Heathens are on the link that goes to the Pagans page & not neo-pagans.

I'll admit I like seeing 300 million next to Pagan.....but stay with me here....

Now on the page for paganism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism#Neopaganism) under neopagans it states...(it almost makes it sound confusing)


Neopaganism includes reconstructed religions such as Hellenic polytheism, Celtic Reconstructionist Paganism, and the many Germanic revivals such as Ásatrú, Heathenry, Norse paganism and Theodism. Due to the fact that Reconstructionist religions are polytheistic revivals and elaborations based on surviving cultural practices, many Reconstructionists prefer to be called Pagans, not Neopagans. It might best be assessed that they inhabit a grey area between Pagan and Neopagan.


I know a lot of Heathens prefer never to be called neo-pagan and some don't even want to be called Heathen due to it's derogatory connotation. I remember people saying "there are no more pagans only neo-pagans", now were back to saying just Pagan? (but only when it comes to Recons)

I see, you have to be a recon to be able to use the loop hole to get to call yourself a Pagan and not a neo-pagan that makes us all sound like a hoard of fruitloops.

Edited to add: Disclaimer.....Do not take this this last sentence seriously as an insult to neo-pagans. This is sarcasm that has to do with how some recons (not this one, notably hardcore Asatruars ) view neo-pagans. It was a Heathen joke that obviously isn't that obvious. Poor job on my part.....Ok I digress, nevermind.

[Carla O'Harris]

If the shoe fits ...

[Seren_]

If the shoe fits ...

:huh:

Personally I think as a Celtic Recon I'm a neopagan rather than a pagan, even though the term's rather clunky (as CR is...). There's no continuous link back to pre-Christian times in my practises - they haven't been passed down from generation to generation to me, I'm reconstructing my spirituality based on what I know, and can feasibly reconstruct in a modern society.

Add to that, what little I know of the history of CR, it seems to be a direct reaction from neopagan religions like Wicca, back in the 70s. Like it or not, CR has been influenced by other neopagan religions, even if it's to try and do something different and more 'authentic' from them.

[_Banbha_]

I'm IR (Irish Recon) and my culture is not something I have to re-create out of whole clothe. There are many pure Pagan elements that were lost and will remain a mystery. They will never be known with documentable certainty without a codex being found. I am not going to hold my breath. Besides, I'm still learning what we know. That's a life-time commitment. :hehehehe:

My ancestors are my continual link to the land and practices; Catholicism in Ireland was not a break in the indigenous culture and folklore practice. I also happen to know Irish Reconstructionists who are mildly Catholic, who are atheist/Humanist, so it's not entirely about Paganism with a Neo-Pagan* attitude, if that makes any sense.

So, the 'Celtic' Reconstructionism I know rises more out of Nationalism and tribalism. The Neo-Pagan movement has influenced and help spread what has already existed. It did not create this branch of CR out of the '70's Neo-Pagan movement. Within IR I see those that are trending toward the Neo-Pagan spectrum, others Pagan. It depends on the individual, I guess. :)


*Neo-Pagan as I'm using it here connotes trending towards some New Age ideals and philosophies.

[Phoenix Blue]

I see, you have to be a recon to be able to use the loop hole to get to call yourself a Pagan and not a neo-pagan that makes us all sound like a hoard of fruitloops.
ADMIN MODE

You've been warned once about attacking members of other religions, i.e., calling Wiccans or neopagans "fruitloops." You will not be warned again.

[Fiamma]

I was on this page today and I saw the list of religions & the #of adherents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

.....Pagans & neo-pagans are listed seperately and Asatruar/Heathens are on the link that goes to the Pagans page & not neo-pagans.

I'll admit I like seeing 300 million next to Pagan.....but stay with me here....

Now on the page for paganism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism#Neopaganism)under neopagans it states...(it almost makes it sound confusing)



I know a lot of Heathens prefer never to be called neo-pagan and some don't even want to be called Heathen due to it's derogatory connotation. I remember people saying "there are no more pagans only neo-pagans", now were back to saying just Pagan? (but only when it comes to Recons)

I see, you have to be a recon to be able to use the loop hole to get to call yourself a Pagan and not a neo-pagan that makes us all sound like a hoard of fruitloops.


wikipedia is slantedby whoever writes the article. I take wikipedia with the restaurant-sized can of morton's :-P

as for asatruar etc, just about every one of 'em that I know DO prefer to be called Heathen.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the word "pagan". I'm not a country-dweller first off, and secondly, the word is so....nebulous, it has little meaning. i only use it to describe myself if I have good reason to not be specific. In speaking of particular traditions and religions, I usually use specific names. When speaking of a large collecting, heterogenous group, i usually say "pagan religions" or "people who practice pagan religions" or somesuch.

[David19]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the word "pagan". I'm not a country-dweller first off, and secondly, the word is so....nebulous, it has little meaning. i only use it to describe myself if I have good reason to not be specific. In speaking of particular traditions and religions, I usually use specific names. When speaking of a large collecting, heterogenous group, i usually say "pagan religions" or "people who practice pagan religions" or somesuch.

I agree with you, the word 'pagan' doesn't really mean anything, for one thing, it was always an insult even in Roman times, i think it was used against those that lived in the country and also those that wouldn't join the army or something (not sure if that's right?).

It was even applied to the early Christians too (something some people don't seem to be aware of).

I usually prefer calling a religion by it's name, e.g. like Hellenic reconstructionism or Hellenismos(sp?), Sumerian religion, Asatru, etc.

[Nitefalle]

The problem lies in the diversity of "pagan" paths - some don't have names as they are particular to an individual, and so they may only identify as "pagan". To me, NeoPagan and Pagan are the same word - EVERYTHING that all pagans do is new, there isn't anything that has survived the European Christian invasion (I am not counting Shinto, Buddhism or Hinduism as they don't self-identify as "pagan" and I don't identify them as "pagan", either).

[Hærfest Leah]

ADMIN MODE

You've been warned once about attacking members of other religions, i.e., calling Wiccans or neopagans "fruitloops." You will not be warned again.

Edit: Oh wait I have to delete that....silly me.


Thanks for the replies here, I just thought what I ran across here was interesting. I do agree on wiki, but it's still one of my fav reference sites as long as they include sources.

[Fiamma]

The problem lies in the diversity of "pagan" paths - some don't have names as they are particular to an individual, and so they may only identify as "pagan". To me, NeoPagan and Pagan are the same word - EVERYTHING that all pagans do is new, there isn't anything that has survived the European Christian invasion (I am not counting Shinto, Buddhism or Hinduism as they don't self-identify as "pagan" and I don't identify them as "pagan", either).


I would beg to differ on the sentiment that EVERYTHING is new. Now, complete unbroken traditions? Nope, sorry, not happening. But some things are not new. For example the Greek tradition of offering the first and last bite of a meal to Hestia. Straight outta Homer.

[Hærfest Leah]

as for asatruar etc, just about every one of 'em that I know DO prefer to be called Heathen.



Oh I wanted to respond here. I agree, I think most Asatruar I know like the word Heathen but I had one on a yahoo grouo I think it was that said specifically " I do not like being called Heathen" and his reasons were because of connotations. I have no problems with Heathen, that's what I use a lot.

[Rick]

The term Asatru was coined in the 1800s. I prefer Heathen.

...as for the Romans using derogatory terms to describe a given people, well, I reckon it's only natural to deride those that you can't conquer...

[Theres]

the Romans never conquered any Pagans?

[Hærfest Leah]

Well the main focus of this thread is just changes in term usage. Before I remember being told (I've seen it even on the board here in a few spots) that we couldn't call ourselves Pagans only Neo-pagans since all the real Pagans died off a long time ago. Now it seems people can call themselves Pagan again, but you have to be a recon to do it.

[Rick]

the Romans never conquered any Pagans?
:hahugh: As far as I know, they conquered mostly Pagans (there were some Jews, I reckon). I had the "heathens" north of the Rhine in mind... http://bestsmileys.com/oneofakind/9.gif

[Theres]

ah, i see, that makes sense. i misunderstood.

[StormVixen]

does being called a neo-pagan or pagan make any difference to what you are? i dont think it does...

but...

to some people the only people who are pagans are those prehistoric/anciant/historical "original" pagans... that would make all modern pagans neo-pagans...

i dont see how people could find "neo" offencive in anyway...

thats why i call myself a neo-celt... and a pagan...

you can be a wiccan and call yourself a pagan without the neo... i dont care if wicca is modern!

pagan and neo-pagan, to me, mean exactly the same thing...

[Rick]

i dont see how people could find "neo" offencive in anyway...
...and yet, many people do find it offensive... or at least misrepresentative...

pagan and neo-pagan, to me, mean exactly the same thing...
...and yet, to many people, these terms don't mean the same thing, and are not interchangeable...