Do modern people lack the passion into history?

[Grimr]

So many times I have talked to people where they say that they have no interest in the past or the sense of history at all.

Do you think that history has become less influential on the populance these days?

Do you believe that the interests have lowered?

I believe there needs to be a renewed interest into history.

I believe people need to learn where they come from as a culture or as a nation.

I believe people need to understand the foundations of the world that shape the present and what could shape the future.

[Shanti]

Maybe you need to talk to differant people?

And this is the history forum, I think thats is whats talked about here.


And to answer your questions:

Do you think that history has become less influential on the populance these days? No.

Do you believe that the interests have lowered? No.

And in my little neck of the world, history study and talk seems to actually becoming more popular.

[Brightshores]

I agree - people should be more interested in history, but for different reasons. I'm a history teacher, and I do hear a lot of "Why do we have to learn this stuff? What good will it do me in my life?" in my social studies classes. I usually tell the kids that it's impossible to understand why the world is the way it is without knowing how it got this way, and that to deal with any current problems in the world, we must understand their roots. Also, I tell them that to understand why different groups of people (Muslims, especially, in this day and age) do the things they do, it's important to know something about the history of the people and the area which they come from.

In general, among rational, thinking adults, interest in history is just as high as it always was. There are, unfortunately, a lot of people that don't fit the category of "rational, thinking adults." :abored:

[Of10Rot10]

I agree - people should be more interested in history, but for different reasons. I'm a history teacher, and I do hear a lot of "Why do we have to learn this stuff? What good will it do me in my life?" in my social studies classes. I usually tell the kids that it's impossible to understand why the world is the way it is without knowing how it got this way, and that to deal with any current problems in the world, we must understand their roots. Also, I tell them that to understand why different groups of people (Muslims, especially, in this day and age) do the things they do, it's important to know something about the history of the people and the area which they come from.

In general, among rational, thinking adults, interest in history is just as high as it always was. There are, unfortunately, a lot of people that don't fit the category of "rational, thinking adults." :abored:

Very well said! I couldn't agree more with this!

To me; History is the greatest soap opera ever written!!! It has it all: murder, intrigue, mystery, drama, comedy, tragedy, rumors, innuendo and sex. You have to read all sides of it the whole picture but it is worth it.

I don't think people are less interested in history, I think they have specialized their historical interests. My interests is Pre-Dynastic Eygpt and I can bore my friends to tears once I get going. By the same tolken I have a friend who once he gets going can bore us all to tears over the Pacific Theatre during WWII. What I am finding is people generally do not care much about history outside of their specific area of interest beyond the basics.

[Infinite Grey]

I have a keen interest in history, it allows a grasp of the present... but I do not lament or dwell in history... the future is more important.

[Bix]

Like Peacock said, I don't think you should just dwell on history and forget the present. I do think people need to know where we have come from. It helps people understand different views.

[Brightshores]

To me; History is the greatest soap opera ever written!!! It has it all: murder, intrigue, mystery, drama, comedy, tragedy, rumors, innuendo and sex. You have to read all sides of it the whole picture but it is worth it.

:fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: That is the best description of history I've ever seen, and it's definitely the way I look at it..

The thing that drives me absolutely insane is the attitude that a lot of historians, history teachers, and ideologues of all sorts have; the "We must understand history in order to overcome it" philosophy. I can't tell you the number of history classrooms I've seen with a quote on a poster that goes something like: "History is a nightmare from which we are trying to awaken." (I don't know who said this; Elie Wiesel, perhaps?)

I detest that quote; it is the exact opposite of my philosophy of history. I see history as the whole continuum of human experience, of which we are a part- we can't simply divorce ourselves from the past because "people did bad things," or because we don't currently like or approve of some of the things that happened. Plus - as a teacher, I don't at all see how a quote like that will get the kids to do their history homework!!! It sends a message that history is boring at best and nightmarish at worst... hardly a recipe for engaging the kids in the material!

[wolf]

So many times I have talked to people where they say that they have no interest in the past or the sense of history at all.

That is a scarier statement than most people will realize.

Do you think that history has become less influential on the populance these days? Absolutely.

Do you believe that the interests have lowered? Yes.

I believe there needs to be a renewed interest into history. I agree with you. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I believe people need to learn where they come from as a culture or as a nation.

I believe people need to understand the foundations of the world that shape the present and what could shape the future. People without a sense of place and history are easier to manipulate.

When History, Economics, Civics, and a lot of other stuff merged and became "Social Studies" we lost a lot in our education system. When they stopped teaching math it all went to pot.

What is taught of history now has been so reframed, repositioned, and changed that it bears little relation to what I learned.

[Of10Rot10]

:fpraise: :fpraise: :fpraise: That is the best description of history I've ever seen, and it's definitely the way I look at it..

The thing that drives me absolutely insane is the attitude that a lot of historians, history teachers, and ideologues of all sorts have; the "We must understand history in order to overcome it" philosophy. I can't tell you the number of history classrooms I've seen with a quote on a poster that goes something like: "History is a nightmare from which we are trying to awaken." (I don't know who said this; Elie Wiesel, perhaps?)

I detest that quote; it is the exact opposite of my philosophy of history. I see history as the whole continuum of human experience, of which we are a part- we can't simply divorce ourselves from the past because "people did bad things," or because we don't currently like or approve of some of the things that happened. Plus - as a teacher, I don't at all see how a quote like that will get the kids to do their history homework!!! It sends a message that history is boring at best and nightmarish at worst... hardly a recipe for engaging the kids in the material!



Why thank you!

Actually I think James Joyce said that.

Wolf just posted my most detested "quote"
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." which is a paraphrase of a George Santayana quote.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes.

I am not knocking your teaching style but I have always seen the problem in the way history has been taught. Most of the ones I end up tutoring have spent 5 years at least learning the same history over and over and over again. By the time they get into HS they are bored at the thought of another History class. The fell asleep sometime during the second year of that 5 year US History course and only a few of them get woke up to learn what HS has to teach about History outside of the US.

And why on Earth is so much of History class focused only on war? Yes I know all the major changes in the world have been the after effects of war but come on... this is exactly what turns girls off history! But there has just as many world changing events happen due to royal marriages. Start teaching Elenor, all of Henry VIII wifes, just what all Elizabeth had to do in her early years to hang on to the throne and so many other women in history and I'll bet a lot more women would have history degrees.

And if you are going to teach the French Revolution try doing it through David paintings. He captures it all. The spirit of the people at the begining, the horror of the executions, the joy of triumph and the despair of the betrayal of Napoleon.

[Zibblsnrt]

I'm a history teacher, and I do hear a lot of "Why do we have to learn this stuff? What good will it do me in my life?" in my social studies classes. I usually tell the kids that it's impossible to understand why the world is the way it is without knowing how it got this way, and that to deal with any current problems in the world, we must understand their roots.

Heh, I pulled a lot out of my HS history classes, but the one thing that ended up sticking with me from one of them in particular is just how deep cause-and-effect chains can go. The teacher wouldn't be satisfied with someone's knowledge of an event unless they could follow a causal chain back four or five significant steps. ("What happened at such-and-such?" "(Answer)" "Why?" "(Additional answer)" "Why?" "... (Additional answer)" "Why?" etc.)

These days, people will have you believe that some major events Just Happened 'Cause Some Dude Went Crazy or whathaveyou, but the realization that it's never that simple is a good one to have.

[Zibblsnrt]

Wolf just posted my most detested "quote" which is a paraphrase of a George Santayana quote.

Besides, history doesn't repeat itself. As someone pointed out once, though, it certainly rhymes..


And why on Earth is so much of History class focused only on war? Yes I know all the major changes in the world have been the after effects of war but come on... this is exactly what turns girls off history! But there has just as many world changing events happen due to royal marriages. Start teaching Elenor, all of Henry VIII wifes, just what all Elizabeth had to do in her early years to hang on to the throne and so many other women in history and I'll bet a lot more women would have history degrees.

Funny, my history honours graduating class was split right down the middle on gender lines, and guys are generally in the minority in classes these days.

Most history as taught in the schools is still focused on war, but political and military history is taking a back seat to social and cultural history in the universities these days. (It's almost to the point where it's taking too much of a back seat, but it doesn't bother me too much.)

[LostSheep]

I wonder if people are losing interest in history? From the number of books that are constantly being published, and on some pretty specialist subjects, like the mistresses of Louis XIV (for instance), not just the usual wars and things, and all the TV series about various aspects (even if a lot of it is all about the nazis yet again), interest in it still seems pretty strong... even if it is outside of schools.

Maybe it's like a lot of things - if it's forced on people, they won't find it enjoyable. Like Shakespeare, or religion, perhaps.

[Of10Rot10]

Besides, history doesn't repeat itself. As someone pointed out once, though, it certainly rhymes..

Which is why I detest that quote.


Funny, my history honours graduating class was split right down the middle on gender lines, and guys are generally in the minority in classes these days.

Most history as taught in the schools is still focused on war, but political and military history is taking a back seat to social and cultural history in the universities these days. (It's almost to the point where it's taking too much of a back seat, but it doesn't bother me too much.)

When I went to school, in the dark ages, honors classes we called college-prep classes and in mine it was mostly male. We had taken the same history class from the 6th grade thru freshman year. I got to the point I was starting to fantasize that the Mayflower sank, the South won the war and Alexander Bell married Henry Ford. Sophmore and junior year we got World History but it was pretty much all wars except for the Black Death and Inquisition. College was where I really fell in love with history.

College didn't stop teaching the wars but it drove history home for me through art, politics, intrigue and all the other sorid details.

[Zibblsnrt]

When I went to school, in the dark ages, honors classes we called college-prep classes and in mine it was mostly male.

When I say "honours class," I mean a thesis-level seminar to cap the undergraduate program - basically the last thing a history major who wants to do graduate work at the university I attended takes. We had honours history classes in high school, but the difference between those and "normal" ones was inconsequential, save that the students were considerably more arrogant.

History in the local schools prior to tenth grade, though... ugggggh. I had an opportunity to help work on a curriculum unit to bring something into that other than Standard National Mythology at the junior high level and did I ever jump on it with glee.


College didn't stop teaching the wars but it drove history home for me through art, politics, intrigue and all the other sorid details.

Yeah, that was a bit of an adjustment for me, since I was used to political history, but I ended up doing my thesis on a social/medical topic, so someone obviously converted me somehow. Either way, my history courses ended up pleasantly varied between generic $REGION $ERA history on the one hand, and things like technology and history, nationalist memetics, and public history on the other. I still likes me some vanilla chronological history, but it's awash in garnishes now.

[Brightshores]

Why thank you!
Anytime. :)

Actually I think James Joyce said that.
Huh. I don't like him either. 8O (I was forced to read Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man once - I never recovered.)

I am not knocking your teaching style but I have always seen the problem in the way history has been taught. Most of the ones I end up tutoring have spent 5 years at least learning the same history over and over and over again. By the time they get into HS they are bored at the thought of another History class. The fell asleep sometime during the second year of that 5 year US History course and only a few of them get woke up to learn what HS has to teach about History outside of the US.

When I went to school, in the dark ages, honors classes we called college-prep classes and in mine it was mostly male. We had taken the same history class from the 6th grade thru freshman year. I got to the point I was starting to fantasize that the Mayflower sank, the South won the war and Alexander Bell married Henry Ford. Sophmore and junior year we got World History but it was pretty much all wars except for the Black Death and Inquisition. College was where I really fell in love with history.

College didn't stop teaching the wars but it drove history home for me through art, politics, intrigue and all the other sorid details.
Me too, actually - I disliked history in high school for the exact reasons you mentioned - the overemphasis on US history, the same things Again. And. Again. And. Again. And. Again. Then, I went to college and fell in love with ancient and medieval history... and now here I am, a high school history teacher. Ironic. I try to teach differently than most people do - I tend to have a very eclectic teaching style - I've been known to do rather bizarre things like break out in song during class and have the kids write campaign speeches for Russian tsars. :) So - no you certainly won't offend me by criticizing the general pedagogy of history teachers - I agree with you!

BTW - LOL about Alexander Bell and Henry Ford - I think they'd make a charming couple! :lol:

Heh, I pulled a lot out of my HS history classes, but the one thing that ended up sticking with me from one of them in particular is just how deep cause-and-effect chains can go. The teacher wouldn't be satisfied with someone's knowledge of an event unless they could follow a causal chain back four or five significant steps. ("What happened at such-and-such?" "(Answer)" "Why?" "(Additional answer)" "Why?" "... (Additional answer)" "Why?" etc.)
This is the kind of thing I think there should be more of - people really need to understand the Why rather than just the dates and names and places and things... and in history classes these days you sometimes don't even get that much.

These days, people will have you believe that some major events Just Happened 'Cause Some Dude Went Crazy or whathaveyou, but the realization that it's never that simple is a good one to have.
This is brilliant. I hope you don't mind if I use this in class.. :)

[Of10Rot10]

When I say "honours class," I mean a thesis-level seminar to cap the undergraduate program - basically the last thing a history major who wants to do graduate work at the university I attended takes.

I should have figured thats what you meant but I was so fixated on kids being bored of history before they get to college thats were my mind got stuck! So Sorry!

[Of10Rot10]

Me too, actually - I disliked history in high school for the exact reasons you mentioned - the overemphasis on US history, the same things Again. And. Again. And. Again. And. Again. Then, I went to college and fell in love with ancient and medieval history... and now here I am, a high school history teacher. Ironic. I try to teach differently than most people do - I tend to have a very eclectic teaching style - I've been known to do rather bizarre things like break out in song during class and have the kids write campaign speeches for Russian tsars. :) So - no you certainly won't offend me by criticizing the general pedagogy of history teachers - I agree with you!

EXCELLENT! What ever it takes to wake them up. So like how many of them promise free flowing vodka if elected?

I got one for the Battle of Hastings. JRRTolken preposed that the reason the Norman won was because they had horses. The Saxons did have horses but the Normans were more skilled at using horses in combat and had the forethought to bring them along. You could divide the class and have them debate Tolkens idea that horses were the deciding factor.


BTW - LOL about Alexander Bell and Henry Ford - I think they'd make a charming couple! :lol:

I know I am a very sick person.


This is brilliant. I hope you don't mind if I use this in class.. :)

I agree. I'm thinking of stealing it myself. ;)

[ap Dafydd]

If you don't know where you are coming from, how do you know where you're going?

One thing that I've noted over the last 30 years or so is that whenever an oppresssed group or culture has begun to struggle for freedom, one of the first things they have done is to rediscover their history.

But I would have to agree with Grimr on this, that people are losing an awareness of the references and traditions that have been handed down as part of the culture, what Terry Pratchett referred to as "white knowledge", the things which we just know because they're out there.

With the rise of satellite and cable TV and their non-stop diet of US entertainment and music videos, where is the space for the "white knowledge" to get through?

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[wolf]

One thing that I've noted over the last 30 years or so is that whenever an oppresssed group or culture has begun to struggle for freedom, one of the first things they have done is to rediscover their history.

For the most part they discover a romanticized, carefully edited to reflect the agenda of the moment, version of their history. Not the same thing.

[Johnathan Brisby]

So many times I have talked to people where they say that they have no interest in the past or the sense of history at all.

Do you think that history has become less influential on the populance these days?

Do you believe that the interests have lowered?

I believe there needs to be a renewed interest into history.

I believe people need to learn where they come from as a culture or as a nation.

I believe people need to understand the foundations of the world that shape the present and what could shape the future.

if you dont know it youll repeat it

[Of10Rot10]

For the most part they discover a romanticized, carefully edited to reflect the agenda of the moment, version of their history. Not the same thing.

Which is the reason you read more than one version.

[dragoncrone]

IMO it takes a couple of things to get young people interested in history to begin with. One is parents who read, who are constantly curious about the past and all its weird occurrences. An atmosphere of joy toward learning is a must.
Another is teachers who can make history come alive, not just boring words in some dry old book. What did people eat? What did they wear? What entertained them? How did they get around? Who were the 'good guys' and villains in their society? What did they battle for - with whom - and why? Details that are funny and even shocking can give students a slap upside their iPods and arouse their curiousity.

[Of10Rot10]

IMO it takes a couple of things to get young people interested in history to begin with. One is parents who read, who are constantly curious about the past and all its weird occurrences. An atmosphere of joy toward learning is a must.

Without a doubt! There were books all over our house and both of my parents read and read to us. They had us reading ourselves before were started school. I was always in trouble for stealing the flashlight so I could read under the covers instead of sleeping.

We had these 2 HUGE books on the Civil War that had been printed in 1868 & 1872 covered everything! One of my all time favorite stories was about Rebs on one side of the Ohio River holding up a small town on the otherside with a stove pipe on a raft made to look like a cannon. About 10 years ago a friend had gotten a collection of Webb B. Garrison books on unknown Civil War facts and that story was in one of them.

[Grimr]

I have a keen interest in history, it allows a grasp of the present... but I do not lament or dwell in history... the future is more important.


The future is nothing without the foundation of the past in every aspect.

There are two types of people I am seeing. One who doesn't care about history or those like yourself who will study history but see themselves with no connection to it that in my opinion resembles a secular form of thinking.

[Grimr]

That is a scarier statement than most people will realize.

Do you think that history has become less influential on the populance these days? Absolutely.

Do you believe that the interests have lowered? Yes.

I believe there needs to be a renewed interest into history. I agree with you. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

I believe people need to learn where they come from as a culture or as a nation.

I believe people need to understand the foundations of the world that shape the present and what could shape the future. People without a sense of place and history are easier to manipulate.

When History, Economics, Civics, and a lot of other stuff merged and became "Social Studies" we lost a lot in our education system. When they stopped teaching math it all went to pot.

What is taught of history now has been so reframed, repositioned, and changed that it bears little relation to what I learned.

Agreed people without a cultural or historical foundation are docile easily manipulated.

I agreed with the rest of your post as well.

[Grimr]

I wonder if people are losing interest in history? From the number of books that are constantly being published, and on some pretty specialist subjects, like the mistresses of Louis XIV (for instance), not just the usual wars and things, and all the TV series about various aspects (even if a lot of it is all about the nazis yet again), interest in it still seems pretty strong... even if it is outside of schools.

Maybe it's like a lot of things - if it's forced on people, they won't find it enjoyable. Like Shakespeare, or religion, perhaps.

Take out or lessen the cultural historical differention and it is that much easier to control people. Political Globalism at work.

[Grimr]

Good to see that others here on MysticWicks support history.

Though outside of the arena of this site I still feel people who advocate history is a minority.

[ap Dafydd]

Possibly (and hopefully) the fact of our being Pagans does give a certain sympathy towards history, given that many of us

- consider ourselves modern interpreters of the Old Religion
- revere the Ancestors, and regret their having been deprived of the Land
- are fascinated by the ways in which cunning folk worked their craft

Applies to me, certainly.

But for Joe Ordinary, maybe not. Would be good if schools were doing a better job.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Grimr]

Possibly (and hopefully) the fact of our being Pagans does give a certain sympathy towards history, given that many of us

- consider ourselves modern interpreters of the Old Religion
- revere the Ancestors, and regret their having been deprived of the Land
- are fascinated by the ways in which cunning folk worked their craft

Applies to me, certainly.

But for Joe Ordinary, maybe not. Would be good if schools were doing a better job.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

I was just thinking that alot of pagans have to know history in order to formulate their ideals in spirituality. That would explain the historical class here on the site.

Of course as you said average Joe off the street knows nothing.........


Education of course could use a better improvement.