Legend of Santa

[inkywitch]

I found this on a website recently and found it interesting. I thought I would share...

Witten by Lady Dolphina


The Yule season is upon us and upon the commercial industry. At every turn we
see some image of "Santa Claus"; but, does anyone know who he really is? I
think that our world has all but forgotten.

The true Santa Claus is actually Thor. Why do I say this? The parallels are
too distinct to be ignored. Santa brings gifts and blessings to the homes of
Midgard, Thor also brings his blessings and protection to Midgard. Santa rides a
sleigh drawn through the sky by horned beasts, Thor rides a chariot drawn by
horned beasts. If you will recall, Santa's two main reindeer (before Rudolph)
were "Donner" and "Blitzen"; these words mean "lightning" and "thunder" in the
German language. These names represent the two common manifestations
of Thor's power.

Now that we have the physical comparisons out of the way, let us consider the
philosophy of the Santa/Thor idea. Throughout time children and their
families have looked to Santa Claus for hope during the Yule season. Thor, being the patron of mankind, was petitioned out of hop and need. Santa's
blessings came to the "good" children, whereas Thor would answer those who called to him out of sincerity. Need is need, and sincere faith is goodness in effect.
Therefore, their purposes are identical.

Let us take this a step further and look to the minute details. Santa's home
is hidden by the Aurora Borealis. It has been surmised by some that Asgard is
hidden from human eyes by that same veil. In addition, Mrs. Claus is mostly
known for cooking pastries, decorating for Yule, and preparing Santa's red suit
for his Christmas evening ride. The Goddess Sif, the wife of Thor, is one of
the "domestic" Goddesses, and the patron of wives and housemakers.

Consider now, if you will, the "dominion" of these personages. Santa
has numerous short stout elves that carve, craft, and forge toys for the
children of the world; but, Thor's people are the short stout dwarves that craft
the finest pieces that men or Gods have ever known. In reality, Santa's elves
bear a greater resemblance to dwarves than they do to elves.

In some European countries, any home that Santa came to would be blessed for
the following year. Thor's hammer and the sunwheel (also a sacred symbol of
Thor), are used as blessings and are carved over windows and doors as wardings.
Santa's presence drives away sorrow and grief, whereas Thor wards the world
from darkness.

These similarities are too blatant to be ignored. Fact is fact, Santa is Thor. The sad part is that once our children reach a certain age they stop believing in him. Each day as you see another image of Santa, don't discard him as a character from a children's story. Because the man in the sleigh is not Santa Claus; he is Thor. As a grown man, I believe in Santa, who is Thor. It is odd that we teach our children to believe, only then to tell them he doesn't exist. (I have a relative who told her children that Santa was the victim of a "hit and run", and died; not a good idea).

This Yule season, teach your children about Santa, if you have children; but,
tell them who he really is, perhaps he will bless you as well.

[Ceres]

I suppose Thor could be one of the characters on which the legend of Santa was based, but I think its a leap to say he IS Thor. There really isnt that much evidence there and some of it is a weak connection.

For example, the names of Santa's reindeer originate with the poem attributed to Clement Moore, written a little over a hundred years ago. Naming two of them after thunder and lightening seems less a reference to Thor than an implication of their speed. Also, I have never heard of Santa's home, the North Pole as being "hidden" by Northern Lights.

[_Banbha_]

I think you'll find some interesting folklore about Santa at these links from Myths and Folklore subforum here:

Santa Claus: Myths and Folklore (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=145390)
Yule Folklore (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=145897)

There are many connections to Nordic myth and folklore and some misconceptions too about American origins of myths and the marketing of them, like the famous coca-cola add that made his red suit famous.

The one thing I think is funny is that People have assumed Santa's reindeer are all male. In fact, they'd have to be female because male reindeer shed their antlers before the Christmas season and females do not. :)

[Denikke]

Maybe I'm crazy or maybe I'm just clinging to the child inside myself, but I believe that Santa Claus was a real person who really existed.
I read a (kids) book somewhere, and the story in it really rang true for me.
The basic gist of it was:
A man named Nicholas, a toy maker, ran a small shop. A very poor woman and her children came into the store. She was looking for a small gift for them to share. She'd saved up all year to get them something special. (the tradition of gift giving at christmas/yule, whatever had already been established). Unfortunately, the woman is too poor to buy anything.
Here I have seen the story go 2 ways.
The first way is that Nicholas breaks down right there and gives the children the toys.
The second is that the woman leaves the store. Nicholas struggles with his conscience for several days. By this time, it's actually Christmas Eve. He goes to the womans house with the toys that the children were especially fond of. ( I believe it was a toy soldier for the boy, a doll for the girl and a plush animal for the toddler in this story) and leaves them for the children annonymously. The children find the toys the next morning and are delighted. Nicholas feels so good about this, that he starts doing it for more and more children every year.

This actually sounds very plausible to me. I don't believe that he went on and became immortal like some stories say. It is very possible that he used reindeer to travel. Not flying ones of course, but yea.
Personally, THAT, I believe, is the origin of Santa Claus. I also believe that the story has been twisted over the generations, as most stories are, to include different aspects. His immortality, the flying reindeer, etc. It is quite possible that aspects of different gods were included. Santa Claus has almost been raised to a god-like status anyways.

Anyways, just my own beliefs and interpretations.
Denikke

[TygerTyger]

I don't believe in Father Christmas, as he is more often referred to here in Britain, per se, but I do believe in everything he stands for.

I think we need a festival like Christmas when we think more of others than we do of ourselves. It is also a time to meet up with family and friends that our everyday lives don't always give us the opportunities to see.

It's a suggestion that magic still exists in the world, not just the receiving of presents but the way in which Christmas can make people feel a little different even if it is only for a few hours.

It is my favourite holiday.

Father Christmas might not exist but the world is a better place for the idea of him.

:santasmil:reindeer::frosty:

[Phoenix Blue]

Why the obsession with "reclaiming" other religions' mythology? Leave well enough alone.

[Deerwoman]

We "reclaim" because we are pagans and all we have is what has come before through our heathen ancestors, our origins.

Many more parallels are drawn between Santa and Odin than the Norse god Thor. Odin rode his horse Sleipnir with eight legs leading a great hunting party through the sky on the Winter Solstice. He is usually also depicted in manuscripts wearing red. It was believed by the Germanic peoples that on the eve of Midwinter he would come down the chimney and leave a blessing or prediction of the future drawn in the ashes of your fire. In Ireland, Brighid was believed to do the same thing at Imbolc. One of Odin's names was Jolnir meaning "Yule figure". At the advent of Christianity, it was St. Nicholas who gained in popularity, especially in Holland and Germany, replacing Odin's role at Yule.

For a more academic coverage of the topic try A Prehistory of Religion: Shamans, Sorcerers and Saints by Brian Hayden. He covers comparisons of pagan gods to Santa Clause and the symbolism behind the chimney/smoke hole - which is surprisingly deep and associated with the World Tree, Ygdrasil.

[Toby Stimpson]

I would put it out there this way: Santa is Santa... Thor is Thor.

Santa is a composite spirit, taking on characteristics from various peoples and spirits...and is regionally different. Pere Noel is different from Sinter Klaus, and Father Christmas is different from Santa Claus. They all have an overlay of the general Santa Claus we see now but when you look at traditions connected to him in each country he is slightly different.

You cannot say that because he may have had roots in either Odin or Thor, that he IS those entities... anymore than I can say I am my mother because I exhibit certain personality traits and similar DNA that are hers. Case in point... Im with PB on this one... no reclaiming needs to happen here because Santa Clause is NOT a Pagan spirit. He's neither a Christian spirit now either, and has as little to do with the religious observance of Christmas as the easter Bunny does with Easter. He is a thing upon himself, with his own traditions that might have originally evolved from pagan stuffs... but are definitly contextual to the modern world right now.

[David19]

Maybe I'm crazy or maybe I'm just clinging to the child inside myself, but I believe that Santa Claus was a real person who really existed.
I read a (kids) book somewhere, and the story in it really rang true for me.
The basic gist of it was:
A man named Nicholas, a toy maker, ran a small shop. A very poor woman and her children came into the store. She was looking for a small gift for them to share. She'd saved up all year to get them something special. (the tradition of gift giving at christmas/yule, whatever had already been established). Unfortunately, the woman is too poor to buy anything.
Here I have seen the story go 2 ways.
The first way is that Nicholas breaks down right there and gives the children the toys.
The second is that the woman leaves the store. Nicholas struggles with his conscience for several days. By this time, it's actually Christmas Eve. He goes to the womans house with the toys that the children were especially fond of. ( I believe it was a toy soldier for the boy, a doll for the girl and a plush animal for the toddler in this story) and leaves them for the children annonymously. The children find the toys the next morning and are delighted. Nicholas feels so good about this, that he starts doing it for more and more children every year.

This actually sounds very plausible to me. I don't believe that he went on and became immortal like some stories say. It is very possible that he used reindeer to travel. Not flying ones of course, but yea.
Personally, THAT, I believe, is the origin of Santa Claus. I also believe that the story has been twisted over the generations, as most stories are, to include different aspects. His immortality, the flying reindeer, etc. It is quite possible that aspects of different gods were included. Santa Claus has almost been raised to a god-like status anyways.

Anyways, just my own beliefs and interpretations.
Denikke

I think he was, St. Nicholas was a Turkish Saint, and/or Bishop, who delivered presents to orphans, and/or other kids.


Why the obsession with "reclaiming" other religions' mythology? Leave well enough alone.


We "reclaim" because we are pagans and all we have is what has come before through our heathen ancestors, our origins.

Many more parallels are drawn between Santa and Odin than the Norse god Thor. Odin rode his horse Sleipnir with eight legs leading a great hunting party through the sky on the Winter Solstice. He is usually also depicted in manuscripts wearing red. It was believed by the Germanic peoples that on the eve of Midwinter he would come down the chimney and leave a blessing or prediction of the future drawn in the ashes of your fire. In Ireland, Brighid was believed to do the same thing at Imbolc. One of Odin's names was Jolnir meaning "Yule figure". At the advent of Christianity, it was St. Nicholas who gained in popularity, especially in Holland and Germany, replacing Odin's role at Yule.

For a more academic coverage of the topic try A Prehistory of Religion: Shamans, Sorcerers and Saints by Brian Hayden. He covers comparisons of pagan gods to Santa Clause and the symbolism behind the chimney/smoke hole - which is surprisingly deep and associated with the World Tree, Ygdrasil.


I would put it out there this way: Santa is Santa... Thor is Thor.

Santa is a composite spirit, taking on characteristics from various peoples and spirits...and is regionally different. Pere Noel is different from Sinter Klaus, and Father Christmas is different from Santa Claus. They all have an overlay of the general Santa Claus we see now but when you look at traditions connected to him in each country he is slightly different.

You cannot say that because he may have had roots in either Odin or Thor, that he IS those entities... anymore than I can say I am my mother because I exhibit certain personality traits and similar DNA that are hers. Case in point... Im with PB on this one... no reclaiming needs to happen here because Santa Clause is NOT a Pagan spirit. He's neither a Christian spirit now either, and has as little to do with the religious observance of Christmas as the easter Bunny does with Easter. He is a thing upon himself, with his own traditions that might have originally evolved from pagan stuffs... but are definitly contextual to the modern world right now.

I agree with Phoenix Blue and Toby, I don't see the point in reclaiming, and since St. Nicholas was the original Santa, he belongs to Christianity, not Paganism. You can't say that he's the "same" as Odin, or Thor, or whoever. Santa is part of the Christian pantheon. Yes, Christians may have taken some things from "pagans", or "pagan" religion 2 thousand, or whatever, years ago, but, other ancient people have taken things from other cultures since the Dawn of Time, I'm a Sumerian Recon, but, do I bitch that Apollo may have his origins in Utu?, No, I don't, 'cause, it's not important (also, I don't believe Apollo and Utu are the same).

Just enjoy Christmas, don't complain about how it was "originally a Pagan holiday", or whatever, enjoy it, spend time with family, friends, etc, celebrate it, if you want too, I'll be doing that.

[Toby Stimpson]

Thankyou David!

I would also go a step further. I find a lot of times modern people try and say that they want to go back to a traditional, more ancestral belief system.

The one logical flaw with this is...how far back are you willing to go? And are you really willing to ignore more than a thousand years of history and tradition merely because it came from Christianity? Further more... there is no direct line of succession with Paganism, what we know is what scholarly peoples have founded through research and parallel making. as Paganism is such a broad term as well... and ancient pagan religions were never defined to a specific region that exists on political maps now, who is to really say what their bloodline really is. You might assume that you are say...celtic... but looking at history being from england does not make one celtic any more than it makes you purely germanic. I do take issue with people trying to 'reclaim' things that did not belong to them in the first place, if we go by bloodlines. Reclaiming also seems to become a very interesting managerie of opinions and beliefs rather than facts.

[David19]

Thankyou David!

I would also go a step further. I find a lot of times modern people try and say that they want to go back to a traditional, more ancestral belief system.

The one logical flaw with this is...how far back are you willing to go? And are you really willing to ignore more than a thousand years of history and tradition merely because it came from Christianity? Further more... there is no direct line of succession with Paganism, what we know is what scholarly peoples have founded through research and parallel making. as Paganism is such a broad term as well... and ancient pagan religions were never defined to a specific region that exists on political maps now, who is to really say what their bloodline really is. You might assume that you are say...celtic... but looking at history being from england does not make one celtic any more than it makes you purely germanic. I do take issue with people trying to 'reclaim' things that did not belong to them in the first place, if we go by bloodlines. Reclaiming also seems to become a very interesting managerie of opinions and beliefs rather than facts.

QFT, a lot of people seem to think if it's Christian (or Jewish or Islamic), then, it has "no worth" at all, or they'll directly avoid anything Christian (or, again, Jewish, or Islamic), or they'll work with something Christian, but, create some kind of psuedo-defence about it actually being "pagan", or having "pagan" origins, it's like saying something Christian, or Abrahamic can't have any value on its own. For example, I'm part of a Yahoo group that is into Solomonic Magic, but, a lot of the people on there, while very knowledgable and, I think, do actually practice a lot, will actually try put the Solomonic Grimoires, and magic, into some kind of "pagan" context, like they'll say it's origins can actually be traced back to Iamblichus's system of Theurgy, which may, or may not, be true, or that the demons that are summoned are actually some kind of "nature spirits", or that Angels and Gods are similar types of being, etc. To me, that's just not true, not only do I not think Angels and Gods aren't the same type of being (for a start, Gods are a lot more powerful, Angels are servants of Gods, or a particular God, like YHWH seems to have an infinite amount of them, and others), also, I don't think you can suddenly take demons from the Mythology they are from (Christian, and/or Jewish, Islamic, etc), and make them into something you want (e.g. "nature spirits", etc).

If someone wants to work with nature spirits, they should, if someone wants to summon demons, from the Christian Hell, or Jewish Abyss, etc, they should (not saying it's easy, though), etc. Just 'cause something is Christian, doesn't mean it has no value, or that you should find some "hidden" pagan origin.

Ok, that got OT, guess it's been on my mind for awhile ;).