Closets within closets within...

[Windsmith]

My wife and I just came back from Winter Witchcamp. Witchcamps are the main gatherings of the Reclaiming witchcraft tradition, and WWC is my "home camp." I love the land, the work, and the people.

But this was my first time at WWC since realizing that pantheism was my spiritual home, and I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to beleive in the work, and that these witches would reject my worldview. Of all the modern Pagan traditions I know, Reclaiming seems most able to encompass a wide range of beliefs, but would they draw the line at someone who believes that magic is psychology and deity is a pretty idea that helps us encapsulate difficult concepts? Funny, but now that I know what I believe, I was more afraid of being "found out" than I was for all the years when I had no idea what comprised my belief system and felt like I was faking every spell.

And then the conversations started. As we get hours of pathwork and ritual under our belts, people start sharing their experiences, and I started running up against the assumption that I believed the same things the other person did. Every time, I faced the decision: to tell, or not to tell? It's a great testament to the "rightness" of pantheism for me that I told every time. It sparked amazing conversations, fierce debates, and blank stares. A couple of times, it prompted the "confession" that others in the discussion had beliefs more similar to mine than I ever would've imagined.

People ask me why I come out of the various closets I'm in. They accuse me of "flaunting it" and say it's nobody's business but their own. This weekend I realized that it's crucial to understanding. And understanding is crucial to communicating, to moving relationships farther and deeper.

Have other pantheists been in similar situations with Pagans from other traditions? Whom do you choose to tell, and when, and how much, and how do you decide when to speak up and when to stay silent?

[cheddarsox]

My experiences have been very similar to the responses you received. I meet a fair number of people who say that their beliefs are similar to mine, but don't use the term pantheism, and some who feel I am not a pagan, that 'true' pagans are hard polytheists, at best they mights allow me the term "neopagan".

That's fine...I have a term for what I believe, pantheist. Don't need to ride anyone's coatails, especially if they are set on shaking free of me.

The more time passes, the less I identify with the pagan movement, and the more I simply identify as a pantheist. No bad feelings, it is just that as my path becomes more clear to me...I see I have less and less in common with that group, as it tends to define itself.

I find less of interest in the pagan section of the bookstore, etc, than I used to. My field of interest has narrowed, no one kicked me out, I just slowly wandered in a different direction.

Still, I find many people I deeply enjoy among the pagan community, and many with whom I share a concept of the cosmos. I appreciate the welcome, support and freedom that the pagan community has always provided for me, and I hope that in my small way I am a worthwhile member of that community. I do support it, in a variety of ways. I think it serves an important function in bringing people of alternative spiritualities together to share ideas, fellowship, encouragement, information and resources.

cheddar

[equinox2]

A couple of times, it prompted the "confession" that others in the discussion had beliefs more similar to mine than I ever would've imagined.


Overall, like Cheddar, my experiences have been like yours. In fact, I've very often described the situation as a closet within a closet, as you have. In general, other Pagans usually are quite accepting. Also like you, on mentioning my views to the most well-known Pagan in the area, he also said his beliefs were roughly similar.

I also agree with you that being completely open about it is the only way to have integrity. I try to be open and authentic with everyone at all times - it's just part of being a real person. I don't "flaunt" anything (flaunt = mentioning something as a new topic, for show). I do mention it if conversation, activities, or circumstances bring up the topic of beliefs. Thus, if I attend a supernatural type ritual, and afterwards someone asks me if I enjoyed it, I may well say "though I don't share the supernatural beliefs, I enjoyed it a lot as an expression of magic I feel in our earth."

I've found a very similar feeling when I'm amoung other environmentalists. I'm a strong environmentalist, but in a rational and scientific way, not the emotional way that seems so common. I don't value animals over people, (nor vice versa). If nuclear power is less polluting overall than coal (1 ounce of nuclear waste seems preferable to literally tons and tons of CO2, which adds to global warming), then I advocate nuclear power, and get looks of horror from others.

So it goes.

Have a fun day-

[ravenscape]

Language is such a clumsy tool. It's sometimes very difficult to even say for sure whether two people's beliefs/approaches to spirituality are similar or not. Similarity of words doesn't mean similarity of thoughts. And I find, time after time, that the more deeply I discuss a topic with people who *seem* to be on a completely different page, the more commonality we actually share.

Language also permits a degree of chameleon-like behavior in group settings. IRL, I am likely to explore concepts and share beliefs with another pagan or a secular humanist, because I have a possibly self-fulfilling expectation that we have something in common. Language allows exploration without revelation, sometimes, which is useful in some ways but extremely self-limiting in others.

It would be easier if I had a 30 second elevator speech. Since I don't, it's a judgement call whether the time expended will be worth it. I may miss some opportunities, but I've seldom been disappointed when I've decided to share in depth.

[Windsmith]

Thus, if I attend a supernatural type ritual, and afterwards someone asks me if I enjoyed it, I may well say "though I don't share the supernatural beliefs, I enjoyed it a lot as an expression of magic I feel in our earth."That's a lovely way of phrasing it. To a certain extent, that's my feeling, too. When I talk about a ritual's energy, I think of the energy of the people who were there - how we interacted, how involved and effective did we feel, were we having a good time? It took me years to realize that when most other people in my home community talk about a ritual's energy, they're referring to divine or supernatural energy. A lot of opportunities for connection and growth get missed that way: we want to believe that other people share our worldview, no matter how many times we're shown that that's just not so.


It would be easier if I had a 30 second elevator speech. Since I don't, it's a judgement call whether the time expended will be worth it. I may miss some opportunities, but I've seldom been disappointed when I've decided to share in depth.We would've loved a 30-second elevator speech, too! On the last night of camp, after the last ritual, at about 11:15 at night, one of our cabinmates got talking about the imbalance he perceived between female and male divine energy in the camp and asked if it had bothered us. I said, "We don't work with deity, so it's not something we notice." Intrigued, he asked if we would please explain in depth. My wife blurted, "No!" and we giggled uncontrollably. We wanted to talk to him about it, but the idea of a conversation that would let us say everything we needed to, plus time to discuss and debate, and still get to bed at a reasonable hour...that was laughable. So we might want to work on a sort of "abstract of non-deist Paganism," and then they can decide if they want to read the whole paper.