Remains of Jesus Found??

[SSanf]

New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family.

The findings also suggest that Jesus and Mary Magdalene might have produced a son named Judah.

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.

A documentary presenting the evidence, "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," will premiere on the Discovery Channel on March 4 at 9 p.m. ET/PT. The documentary comes from executive producer James Cameron and director Simcha Jacobovici.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/02/25/tomb_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20070225073000Personally, I don't believe it but it makes a good story, anyway.

[_Banbha_]

Interesting though I'm skeptical.

Isn't this more for the history forum than PP?

[Lares]

Seems a bit to neat, don't you think? And how is it that all these coffins just sat around for 20 years before this great archeologist (I mean film director) came along and figured out what they were.

Personally I believe most of what is said about Jesus marrying, but a James Cameron connection? I think this is just more people from Hollywood thinking that they know 'Oh so much more than the rest of us". Not to mention some artistic license with a hammer and chisel to get the names right.

[David19]

That sounds very interesting, and I'd like to see that documentary, does anyone know if you can watch it online or anything?.

Also, it was discovered by actual archeologists and scholars, not authors, like Dan Brown or the authors of 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail', so it gives it a little more credence.

[Pagan Warrior]

Article: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0226JesusFilm26-ON.html

There's obviously some debate whether or not this is really the remains of Jesus and his family... but made for an interesting read. I don't buy into it, but might set aside time to at least watch the documentary.

[_Banbha_]

I'm highly skeptical but will probably watch the documentary. I think with James Carmaron behind it, it's bound to be entertaining. There is a thread on this in the history forum too. :)

[LostSheep]

Some interesting theological implications there ... though the argument that
One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus may have had a son, according to the documentary. seems a little :hrmm: since according to Wiki,
The name "Jesus" is an Anglicization of the Greek Iesous, itself believed to be a transliteration of the Hebrew Yehoshua or Aramaic Yeshua, meaning "YHWH is salvation". so would it actually say "Jesus" on the casket? Depends what language it was in, I guess. Judah is a Hebrew name I think, but Jesus isn't.

:hrmm: .

[Nitefalle]

I guess what it really boils down to is, how allegorical is the Bible and how common a name was "Jesus" (in whatever language it is)? I mean, if it's a name like "John" or "Dan" or "Bob", then we may find 500 caskets like that over the years. People have found the remains of what they believe to be Troy, but are Hellenic Recons jumping around the media, claiming Zeus was real? People seem to forget to put it in context. Even if we do find that Jesus was a real person, that doesn't prove that he was a son of God or that he could perform miracles. If we found the remains of Cuchulainn, people wouldn't believe in the Celtic gods as literal stories / myths. I don't understand why this is different.

[Willow Rosette]

According to Christian beliefs arent we all "children" of God? So if some guy named Jesus said he was the son of God wouldnt he be correct?

[Pesha]

James Cameron was on the Today show this morning talking about this discovery. It could be intgeresting to watch the documentary. I am sure it is going to upset alot of the xian institutions. But interesting none the less.

[ap Dafydd]

I guess what it really boils down to is, how allegorical is the Bible and how common a name was "Jesus" (in whatever language it is)? I mean, if it's a name like "John" or "Dan" or "Bob", then we may find 500 caskets like that over the years.

Apparently it was a very common name and over 70 caskets have been found in recent years with the name Jesus on them

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2022252,00.html

So I don't think we'll be seeing the overthrow of Christianity just yet

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[bbnflpn]

i think it would be cool if it was true. i have never had a problem with jesus him self just some christians. and i had always felt that he had lived.

if it is true, then the whole davinci code thing is going to hold alot more marit than just a theroy (which is a good one)

[David19]

I wanted to bump this up with 2 articles in 2 papers today about this.

1st one from here (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_headline=has-hollywood-star-found-tomb-of-jesus%2D%26method=full%26objectid=18680195%26siteid=89520-name_page.html):


TITANIC director James Cameron yesterday unveiled a 2,000-year-old "bone box" - and said it was Jesus's coffin.

It is one of 10 metre-long caskets discovered by builders who stumbled on an ancient tomb near Jerusalem. The others are allegedly caskets that held the bones of Mary, Joseph, Mary Magdalene and Judah - said to be Jesus's son.

In New York, Cameron showed a press conference the caskets of Jesus and Mary Magdalene - calling them "one of the greatest archaeological finds of all time."

He said one has "Jesus, son of Joseph" scratched on it in ancient Aramaic while the other has "Mariamne" - Mary Magdalene's real name - in Greek.

Another casket is said to have the inscription "Judah, son of Jesus". Cameron, who has made a documentary about the caskets, said the find bolstered the theory that Jesus married Mary and had a child.

He added that finding the names of the holy family together was the equivalent of discovering a grave marked Ringo alongside a John, Paul and George.

Cameron said DNA tests on the coffins showed Mary and Jesus were not related - further proof they may have been married.

But he has angered clerics who say claims that Jesus had a coffin contradict Christian belief in the resurrection.

And Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to study the caskets when they were found 26 years ago, branded the claims "nonsense". He added: "They are the most common names among Jews at the time."

Another one from here (http://www.metro.co.uk/fame/article.html?in_article_id=38807&in_page_id=7&in_a_source=):


DNA evidence and statistical analysis of a set of 2,000-year-old stone coffins found in Jerusalem in 1980 suggest they once held the remains of Christ and his family, according to a new documentary.

It says tests on human residue taken from the "ossuaries" believed to be those of Jesus and Mary Magdalene indicates they might have been a couple - and the filmmakers believe they may have had a son, Judah.

Cameron, who produced the Discovery Channel film set to air on Channel 4 in the UK, will unveil the two key coffins at a press conference in New York on Monday.

The team said their findings did not necessarily conflict with the fundamental Christian belief that Jesus was resurrected three days after his crucifixion - contrary to some reports that they would claim the evidence meant the resurrection did not take place.

The Discovery Channel claimed the evidence could be the "greatest archaeological find in history".

"It doesn't get bigger than this," Cameron said. "We've done our homework; we've made the case; and now it's time for the debate to begin."

Personally, I'm not sure, I think it's kind of cool, especially the part about Judah, being Jesus's son.

Although, as some in the 1st article said, they were common Jewish names in that time, so it could be a different family, although it's a really big coincidence that you have 1 Jesus, 1 Mary, and Judah all in the same tomb (although it's kind of annoying when people think Jesus was his real name, it was Joshua (Yeshua in Hebrew), but that's just a pet peeve, I have.

[~Belladonna~]

Cool story :)

[Pagan Warrior]

Apparently it was a very common name and over 70 caskets have been found in recent years with the name Jesus on them

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2022252,00.html

So I don't think we'll be seeing the overthrow of Christianity just yet

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

Don't really want to see Christianity overthrown, but they could do for a little humility ;)

[ShadowcatX]

I'm not really interested in the theological implications of this, if it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt it was not Jesus's remains, people would find another and say they were, and if was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt it is Jesus's remains people will still not believe it.

However, what I'm curious about, is what would this do to Easter and Christmas?

[SoulFire]

New scientific evidence, including DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggests a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family. . . .

The DNA findings, alongside statistical conclusions made about the artifacts — originally excavated in 1980 — open a potentially significant chapter in Biblical archaeological history.


So just whose DNA are they talking about here? And how in the heaven ;) would they know if they found the alleged Jesus and Mary's alleged DNA in the first place? I'm trying to picture this: a team of scientists are huddled over a microscope, and one of them says, "Oh, yes, that's Jesus' DNA alright."

:fpraise:

[Thunder]

I know this to be false. Jesus is still alive and lives in Tucson, Arizona.

[Willow Rosette]

what would this do to Easter and Christmas?

:lol:

[omar]

Jesus's name was Joseph Ben Yusef= Son of Joseph.

[lamoka]

If the semitic language is so hard to translate and understand.. what was the bible originally written in and can we trust it through the many translations..
myself I think it was messed with in a myriad of ways..

[Catiana]

Bummer the documentary is on at the same time as "The Dark Ages" on the History Channel. oh well maybe they'll show it again.

[DarkDancer]

I just plan to grab some popcorn, sit back, and be entertained... ;)

[Thunder]

Ain't nobody gonna ask???

[_Banbha_]

Ain't nobody gonna ask???

I already guessed. :idea:

[Pesha]

So this year they found the tomb of Jesus, what will it be next year. This so reminds me of the sixties and the stories about aliens being the authors of the Bible and Noahs ark being found.

[Tambou]

Me thinks it's "plug" for a new movie by James Cameron.

[aeroeng]

I think the whole thing about it isn't that they found a tomb with Jesus (a common name from that time) on it...but the "supporting cast" in the group of 10 that they found and how they match up with bible. Another reason people are making lots of noise about this is that Jesus isn't supposed to have remains since he ascended to heaven. Either way, I plan on watching the documentary just to see what was found and stuff. I'll form my own opinions later.

[aeroeng]

So just whose DNA are they talking about here? And how in the heaven ;) would they know if they found the alleged Jesus and Mary's alleged DNA in the first place? I'm trying to picture this: a team of scientists are huddled over a microscope, and one of them says, "Oh, yes, that's Jesus' DNA alright."

:fpraise:

They didn't determine if it was the real jesus or not (i'm going to assume). What they did was compare the DNA from the "Jesus" remains with the DNA from the "Mary" remains to determine if they were related, which results say the weren't. Being buried together would indicate that those two were a couple if they weren't blood related. I'm hoping that the scientists also compared the "Judah" remains to see if "Jesus" and "Mary" were the parents.

There is no way to DNA test and confirm that it was the real Jesus unless someone has some Jesus DNA locked away somewhere to compare it to.

[Thunder]

They didn't determine if it was the real jesus or not (i'm going to assume). What they did was compare the DNA from the "Jesus" remains with the DNA from the "Mary" remains to determine if they were related, which results say the weren't. Being buried together would indicate that those two were a couple if they weren't blood related. I'm hoping that the scientists also compared the "Judah" remains to see if "Jesus" and "Mary" were the parents.

There is no way to DNA test and confirm that it was the real Jesus unless someone has some Jesus DNA locked away somewhere to compare it to.I'm sure he will send you some... would you like for me to ask?

[omar]

Jesus supose to have went up into a cloud. Beam me up Scotty. A space ship hid in a cloud?

[omar]

If the tomb said Jesus Christ,it was fake. His REAL name was Joseph Ben Yusef or son of Joseph. Thats like saying Buddha, his REAL name was Siddhartha Gautama. They put your name on your grave not your title.

[SoulFire]

They didn't determine if it was the real jesus or not (i'm going to assume). What they did was compare the DNA from the "Jesus" remains with the DNA from the "Mary" remains to determine if they were related, which results say the weren't. Being buried together would indicate that those two were a couple if they weren't blood related. I'm hoping that the scientists also compared the "Judah" remains to see if "Jesus" and "Mary" were the parents.

There is no way to DNA test and confirm that it was the real Jesus unless someone has some Jesus DNA locked away somewhere to compare it to.

Ummm. That was sort of the point of my sarcastic post. And merely because DNA tests indicate that the couple were not related does not prove that it was the Biblical Jesus either.

Umm. Oh, I know--they could take DNA samples from the Shroud of Turin! Of course! Silly me.

[Bethra]

I know this to be false. Jesus is still alive and lives in Tucson, Arizona.

You must have a false Jesus then because I know him to live in North Wales :D

[Rick]

ZZ Top said Jesus went to Chicago...

[elessar]

I watched the documentary and it made alot more sense than the Bible version. It reflects a well done investigation , and even if that isn't the actual tomb where Jesus was buried it at least makes us think. What pisses christians off is that Jesus was an ordinary man, that had a wife and kids and tried mobilize the jews against the Roman invader. He wasn't holly or the son of god. Just a man.
The problem is that the majority of historians and archeologists mention the Bible as an history book, instead of a fictional novel of religious belief. And when someone has a different idea or discovers something that would contradict the Bible that person is putt aside and said to be a nutt or a quack.
After the gospels of Judah and Mary Magdalene, the Da Vinci Code and now this it's time people start realizing that all christian organizations have been lying since day one.

[David19]

After the gospels of Judah and Mary Magdalene, the Da Vinci Code and now this it's time people start realizing that all christian organizations have been lying since day one.

I haven't seen this documentary, although it sounds interesting, and I've got the Gospel of Judah as a PDF, which is really good (although I haven't read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene), but I don't think the Da Vinci Code "proves" anything as that is just fiction, it's not historical, it doesn't mean Jesus and Mary Magdalene might not have got together, it does seem from Gnostic sources, they had some kind of relationship, but I don't think anyone should base their opinions of what this relationship was like on Dan Brown's work.

Personally, one of the books I'd like to read is 'Jesus and the Shamanic Tradition of Same-Sex Love' by Will Roscoe (http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Shamanic-Tradition-Same-Sex-Love/dp/0974638838), which states Jesus had some kind of sexual relations with a man (or men), it's also got an interesting mystical side to it, as supposedly, it was to enable to man to get a taste/glimpse of godhood, and there is evidence the early Christians practiced magic (and Jesus did say to cast out demons, raise the dead, do other magics, etc), so it's not so "ridiculous" when you think about it.

Although the right wing fundamentalists and Bush's heads would probably explode at that, lol!.

[elessar]

[QUOTE=David19;3075272]I haven't seen this documentary, although it sounds interesting, and I've got the Gospel of Judah as a PDF, which is really good (although I haven't read the Gospel of Mary Magdalene), but I don't think the Da Vinci Code "proves" anything as that is just fiction, it's not historical, it doesn't mean Jesus and Mary Magdalene might not have got together, it does seem from Gnostic sources, they had some kind of relationship, but I don't think anyone should base their opinions of what this relationship was like on Dan Brown's work.


The Da Vinci Code mentions that Mary Magdalene traveled to France where she gave birth to Jesus's daughter. That girl later married with a powerfull noble wich led to the creation of the merovigien blood line ( of kings like CharleMagne ).
This reminds me of a portuguese fictional book where Columbo is referred not as a man from Genova but as a man born and raised in Portugal. It's fictional but the facts mentioned are interesting and now it led to a full investigation. Now we know he is not Italian and he is probably portuguese born in Cuba.

[Xander67]

If the tomb said Jesus Christ,it was fake. His REAL name was Joseph Ben Yusef or son of Joseph. Thats like saying Buddha, his REAL name was Siddhartha Gautama. They put your name on your grave not your title.

I was taught that his name was Y'shua (his hebrew name. Him being Jewish he would not have been called "jesus" because jesus is the transliterated version of the greek.. or something like that)

also, yeah... that would kinda blow the whole "ascension" concept out of the sandbox...

[Naroddrec]

Maybe Jesus was a Shaman. Maybe he was a hypnotist. Maybe he is not even real. Who knows. I doubt they found his remains though.

[Jadewynd~]

If you are speaking of the documentary that was on the History Channel, I saw that documentary and it was interesting. The names Jesus, Joseph and Mary were common names ( though in Hebrew form not the English translation) . Here is a case of probability especially when dealing with so many years behind us. Is it the tomb of Jesus who died on the cross and had 12 apostles who really knows? Not to denounce anyone's belief but, I am taking a time and lack of direct DNA. If you can get DNA of present decendants of Jesus and then trace backwards to Jesus that would be something. According to historians Jesus had siblings. There was a documentary on this also not that long ago tracing Jesus's decendants. Anyway, very interesting documentaries.

[SoulFire]

I am taking a time and lack of direct DNA.

Huh???


If you can get DNA of present decendants of Jesus and then trace backwards to Jesus that would be something. According to historians Jesus had siblings.

It would be a miracle indeed. And how would they know they had Jesus'--the biblical Jesus'--DNA??? I would be amazed--I'd convert--if anyone can prove conclusively that Jesus's bloodline can be traced. I could show you my blood on a slide and tell you it's Elvis'. How would you know?

[Jadewynd~]

Huh???



It would be a miracle indeed. And how would they know they had Jesus'--the biblical Jesus'--DNA??? I would be amazed--I'd convert--if anyone can prove conclusively that Jesus's bloodline can be traced. I could show you my blood on a slide and tell you it's Elvis'. How would you know?

I totally agree. This documentary on tracing Jesus's bloodline was just based on pieces of information from families that have lived generation to generations in Israel. But again the probability to trace that far back the bloodline has thinned out since Jesus; it is truly difficult to prove these's families are a direct bloodline. You would need a true DNA sample of Jesus's blood and the only closest blood would be the Shroud of Turen (sorry on the spelling of Turen) or finding the true tomb. But, we are fighting against time anyone can claim this is the shroud of turen , this is the tomb of Jesus. If I am correct the shroud was burned several years back in a church with in Rome. There is barely anything left of it or it is destroyed.

But, they did make some interesting discoveries of his time where he might have lived as a young child given where his mother lived. What might he have looked like given the bases of archeological findings of other human skull structure dated from his time(carbon data) and history. It's a puzzle with pieces missing, I find it the base way to discribe it.

[MacMorrighan]

Yes, while I saw the documentary, I will freely admit that I was not convinced by their claims; though, what did impress me was how the producers confronted not only scholastic "special pleading" and enshrined "double standards" (which, I will point out, British historians of Witchcraft and paganism have in spades!), but during the debate at the end of the film, rather than directly tackle the evidencee at hand that was confronted, a scholar in this field sat on his percieved "laurels" and shouted, as his ownly (lame) "defence", "You're not a specialist in the field!" which is character assasination and serves only to discredit one in the most under-handed of means. I, personally, do not tollerate such behaviour; one's thesis should stand or fall based solely upon the merrits of the (say it with me, Class) evidence, rather than bowing and scraping to academic politicization (and anyone who hasn't realized this-- even in certain scholars that are presently en vogue-- seriously need a clue-by-four, and a doze of objectivity, as well as a smattering of common sense [not to mention a good education in quantifiable logistics!]).

[Adrianus]

I believe the usual English spelling for Jesus' name is Yehoshua Ben-Yusef.

Interesting thread, but as for the entire concept , :geez:.