Why do you think Christ was crucified?

[gurlygurl2004]

Do you really think it was to free us of sin (like that really works)? Or do you think he was basically a martyr? And also do you find it odd, Christianity's own leader was persecuted and crucified for his outspoken beliefs but most of Christianity persecutes pagans, witches, and other nonChristian religions?

In a way I find common ground with Jesus as a pagan. So ironic. I became pagan many years ago to rebel against what I thought was Christ's word and teachings but in the end found common ground with him.

[Jade Moon]

First of all - you can't equate Christ's teachings with the majority of people who call themselves "Christians." Hypocrisy seems to have become the most important doctrine for most of them.

I agree with you, I too have found alot about Jesus that I like and that inspires me, but none of it is what I was taught in Sunday School!

[LostSheep]

I know what you mean. That's just what i did, but then, as i began to find out about what Jesus was probably like and how he was treated by the authorities, and how much he was opposed to organised religion and of persucution in God's name, I started to find him so much more interesting.

Why he was crucified, i think was probably for that reason - that the Jewish authorities were afraid of upsetting the applecart with the Romans, and someone came along preaching these subversive messages, and the common people were calling him the messiah who was promised in the Old Testament (though Jesus almost certainly never called himself the Messiah), so he became too much of a threat for the Romans and the Jewish authorities under Pilate who just wanted a quiet life and keep on the right side of the Romans.

Did he think he was the son of God? Well, who knows what may have happened out there in the wilderness. Who may have spoken to him.

[gurlygurl2004]

Isn't it ironic that Jesus didn't like organized religion, yet look what happened to Christianity and it's younger brother, Islam?! Anyway, it's so sad that to this day Christians blame Jews for it and thus antisemetism lives on.

[LostSheep]

yes, people have used that as an excuse for hundreds of years, when it was really the Romans who saw him as a threat and bullied Pilate into it, who didn't really have much choice unless he wanted a war with Rome.

[Morr]

Jesus was a revolutionist and a reformist. He got too much power and support for his revolutionary and reform ideas at the time.

Both Jewish religous leaders and Roman political leaders wanted him dead to prevent an uprise against both parties. So they crucified him (as 1/4 of a million Jews at the time were for various reasons and crimes) to try to set an example of him, and to shut him up for good.

That's why he was crucified.

I think he may have had Shamanistic abilities and healing abilities. He definitely had a more advanced vision of Judaism and spirituality than most of his peers at the time.

But really, he was just made an example.

He never spoke of HIMSELF being the leader of the church, or of his followers to worship his image on a cross, etc. Today's Christianity is very different than what Jesus had imagined. He certainly viewed himself as a Jew, not as anything else either.

[Stormbeard]

I believe Christ was crucified because Future Christ went back in time and told him that in order to preserve the fabric of time he must accept his fate and not use his superpowers to escape.

[gurlygurl2004]

I believe Christ was crucified because Future Christ went back in time and told him that in order to preserve the fabric of time he must accept his fate and not use his superpowers to escape.

:Shrug: You never know, I guess :lol:

[LadyCelt]

Historically spekaing, he threatened power. He threatened the power of the high up people in Judaism. He threatened power of others as well.

Spiritually, it was to save people from sin. I don't know how to define exactly what is a sin and what sin is what (if that makes sense) personally speaking. I'd say Jesus was born knowing he'd be crucified.

[Cassie]

"Do you think Christ was crucified?"
I believe there is historical evidence that somebody called Jesus was crucified.

Do you really think it was to free us of sin (like that really works)? Or do you think he was basically a martyr? And also do you find it odd, Christianity's own leader was persecuted and crucified for his outspoken beliefs but most of Christianity persecutes pagans, witches, and other nonChristian religions?


I don't believe in the concept of sin so I don't think that is why he died. I think he was seen by both the Jews and the Romans as an aggitator and that is what lead to his crucifixion. So yes, he was a martyr.
I don't find it so unusual for the leader of Christianity or prominent people of any belief system to be persecuted for their beliefs. I do find it sad though.


Isn't it ironic that Jesus didn't like organized religion, yet look what happened to Christianity and it's younger brother, Islam?! Anyway, it's so sad that to this day Christians blame Jews for it and thus antisemetism lives on.
I agree with the first part of what you say, that it is ironic that Christianity became a highly organised and powerful religion although Jesus himself seemed critical of some aspects of organised religion.

The second part of what you say is not really true. Most modern Christians are not anti semetic and do not 'blame' the Jews for Christ's death (although some have done so in the past). There are quite good relations between most modern mainstream Christian churches and the state of Israel and genuine moves towards reconciliation and understanding.

Sadly anti-semitism lives on for all sorts of reasons and Christians (while not blameless) are no more guilty than many other religious and non religious groups.

[plumedsnake]

"Do you think Christ was crucified?"
I believe there is historical evidence that somebody called Jesus was crucified.

I think there were probably loads of people called Jesus that were crucified. Afterall Jesus was a common Jewish name and if, as Morr says 1/4 million jews were crucified, then I think it would be safe to presume that quite a few of them might have been called Jesus.



I don't believe in the concept of sin so I don't think that is why he died. I think he was seen by both the Jews and the Romans as an aggitator and that is what lead to his crucifixion. So yes, he was a martyr.
I don't find it so unusual for the leader of Christianity or prominent people of any belief system to be persecuted for their beliefs. I do find it sad though.

If, as the gospels claim, Jesus was descended from David, ie he belonged to the true royalty of Israel (as opposed to the puppet king installed by Rome, namely Herod) then his mere existence whether he was outspoken or not would have been cause for concern. I can imagine that in that position people would have flocked to him anyways and tried to get his endorsement for their agendas. I imagine Jesus, like all political leaders, having to juggle the conflicting demands of the various parties that flocked to him. Some of those parties would have been revolutionary, others not so. Whatever Jesus actually thought would be overshadowed by others telling him what he ought to do and ought to be.




I agree with the first part of what you say, that it is ironic that Christianity became a highly organised and powerful religion although Jesus himself seemed critical of some aspects of organised religion.



It is very interesting research looking into the history of christianity. Especially with characters like Irenaeus the bishop of Lyon and other church fathers whose names I can't recall, that basically imposed the orthodoxy on christians. Irenaeus felt that christianity needed to be more organised if it was to withstand the persecutions from the pagans.

[wolfjan1]

WOW! IF that doesn't sound like modern times, I don't know what does!
The "powers that be" basically wanted Jesus out of their way. His "big mouth" was making people THINK. Since they could no longer ignore his reputation, He had to go. From what I read of him, he was a Kind man, a HUMAN man. So, as has happened through the ages, they not only tried to "get rid" of him, but to do it in the cruelist, most painful and humiliating way possible.

[LostSheep]

It is very interesting research looking into the history of christianity. Especially with characters like Irenaeus the bishop of Lyon and other church fathers whose names I can't recall, that basically imposed the orthodoxy on christians. Irenaeus felt that christianity needed to be more organised if it was to withstand the persecutions from the pagans.

Don't forget Augustine, who we have to thank for all the dogma about "original sin" that made people so miserable over the centuries.

[ajc2184]

How about another POV, maybe non of the Bible is literal, maybe it is a book of fables!

[Semele]

How about another POV, maybe non of the Bible is literal, maybe it is a book of fables!

Well don't be absurd. Of course its fables. Who here believes a man got swallowed by a whale and hung out there for a while, unaffected by the stomach acid, then got spit out to go tell the folks of Nenevah to repent? And why don't we ever see people getting turned to stone or pillars of salt today? Where are the giants fighting little boys with stones? Its a good book but so is Harry Potter. *shrug*

As to the original question, I think he was crucified because he was deified.

[zionwood]

Well, no offense, but i do believe the story about Jonah.
('course, i'm not saying anyone else has to.) I think there have been more recent reports of similar phenomena tho. even if there weren't, i think stuff still happens today that modern science can't explain. i don't mean that in every one of those cases, that it must be divine intervention. Perhaps it's something scientific that hasn't been discovered yet.
but i digress.

[Nighthawk]

Semele is about right on...if she is wrong..then it is because of jealousy...pure and simple jealousy and greed....

[Les_Nubian]

I believe that Jesus Christ could have possibly been "perceived" as pagan by the Jews of his time, but I do not think he was actually pagan in the heatenistic sense of the word. He was very righteous, and upright. He knew/believed in his father in heaven, one God, and that we all had sin to be attoned for. I'm not sure that's a very "pagan" concept.

:D

[Nighthawk]

That might be a problem...none of THEM were righteous.... at least, not many

[Mab]

I don't believe the idea was to free us from sin as in "there will be no more sin in the world" or "you will not sin anymore", but to free us from the wages of sin.....ie, death---spiritual death, not physical death.

And, yes, I do find it infuriating that Christianity, like many other religions, has been organized & politicized & used as a tool to oppress others. I do understand the belief that as a Christian one must "witness" to others, but telling your story & sharing your beliefs is a far cry from telling ppl that they are evil & they must convert to my beliefs or die.

[wtfidka]

Well here is a different twist, I dont believe he was crucified, I dont believe he actually existed, I dont believe half of the things in the bible happened. I do believe the Bible is a book of fairy tales. That is just my opinion.

[Lady Valkyrie]

Well here is a different twist, I dont believe he was crucified, I dont believe he actually existed, I dont believe half of the things in the bible happened. I do believe the Bible is a book of fairy tales. That is just my opinion.

And this is a part of the board where those who are actual Christopagan, Christian Witches, and Christian Wiccans can come here and discuss their chosen path. It's quite obvious by your bashing of our chosen path in other sections of Mystic Wicks that you would never even believe Jesus existed so this is a pretty moot point and you really didn't need to weigh in on this issue in my humble opinion.

I don't mean to be a biotch but the same goes for Stormbeard. I know he is a Satanist. And he comes in here to basically poke fun and make sarcastic comments about Jesus. Why? What's the point.

Granted I've been to the Satanism section and posted a few things and I'm not a Satanist and have stated as much. However, I am currently reading the Satanic Bible along with the companion book of Satanic Rituals to gain a better understanding of this belief system. So when I post in the satanism section I am posting in all seriousness and in with the fullest of intentions of learning more about Satanism. I'm not there to poke fun at other's beliefs... I'm not there to loudly proclaim my reasons for disagreeing with such beliefs. So why do some people feel the need to come into certain sections here in "Paths" and cause discontent?

[Lady Valkyrie]

Jesus was a revolutionist and a reformist. He got too much power and support for his revolutionary and reform ideas at the time.

Both Jewish religous leaders and Roman political leaders wanted him dead to prevent an uprise against both parties. So they crucified him (as 1/4 of a million Jews at the time were for various reasons and crimes) to try to set an example of him, and to shut him up for good.

That's why he was crucified.

I think he may have had Shamanistic abilities and healing abilities. He definitely had a more advanced vision of Judaism and spirituality than most of his peers at the time.

But really, he was just made an example.

He never spoke of HIMSELF being the leader of the church, or of his followers to worship his image on a cross, etc. Today's Christianity is very different than what Jesus had imagined. He certainly viewed himself as a Jew, not as anything else either.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. And because of I believe this of Jesus he is my "inspiration" and "savior" of sorts... not a savior from "sin" as so many mainstream Christians believe, though. That's just my personal opinion, though.

[Shadow Angel]

Christ was crucified to make an example out of him I think.

[LacyRoze]

Christ was crucified to make an example out of him I think.

I tend to agree with this. I see it as a "don't go against the status quo" type of thing..

[harrypottertew]

i believe he was crucified because the people were afraid of change, something unfamiliar, something that cannot be explained. he did help and cure people of their illnesses out of the blue. so i guess people "back then" were afraid of change.

[David19]

Well here is a different twist, I dont believe he was crucified, I dont believe he actually existed, I dont believe half of the things in the bible happened. I do believe the Bible is a book of fairy tales. That is just my opinion.

I agree with what Lady Valkyrie said, if you don't believe in the Christian god(s) then that's fine, but why post in here where there are Christian Pagans, Witches, etc who do?.

Personally, I'm a Pagan, and I do believe there was a Jesus, and YHWH as perfectly valid and powerful gods, etc, but the path isn't for me, and I don't worship the same god, but I still respect the religion (and also I like learning about different parts of it).

[LacyRoze]

If you don't believe in the Christian God, that's fine, no one is trying to make you. However, I find it rude to come into the Christian Witchcraft forum and call the Bible a book of fairytales. I was under the impression that the "Paths" forum was a place for people to share their paths and beliefs, to learn about others, not to belittle them. Guess I could be wrong..