Ifa/Santeria Questions

[Lyra76]

So, I was called by Yemaya earlier this year. It was pretty unmistakeable but it still feels very personal, so I'd rather not go into detail about it. Anyway, I started reading up on her and Ifa/Santeria (I'd never had so much as an inkling of interest in these paths until this happened). I've used the search function and Semi's posts from when he taught a class on this have been invaluable, but I need more guidance. I know for a fact that I will not participate in animal sacrifice (not a vegetarian and I know it's part of a religious ritual, but I still can't do it), and as I understand it, that would pretty much preclude me from joing an established house - in fact, if I'm correct, Semi had to start his own house due to this.

Semi was also big on feeling free to do things on your own and untraditionally, if that's what's feels right, and I'm cool with that. The problem is, I don't want to get in over my head. For example, Semi once wrote regarding the orisha and blood, that once they have some, they'll want it regularly, which is why it would be an extremely bad idea to offer your own. Very lucky he wrote this and I read the post, or I might have gotten into trouble - this wouldn't have occurred to me. Others have written comments like it can be extremely dangerous to dabble in this if you don't know what you're doing, which is why I'm hoping someone who practices this path can help me. I would never ask anyone to reveal things that are supposed to be known to initiates only, but I also don't want to make any very bad or dangerous mistakes, and with Semi gone from MW, I'm not sure who I can turn to. I don't want to dabble, I do want to go further in this, but I also definitely don't want to pop into a random botanica and offer myself up as a student to someone I've never met and have no way of knowing I can trust. No one I know practices Ifa or santeria, so I'm hoping someone here on MW would be willing to help guide me (or at least warn me about definite no-no's). Any help really would be hugely appreciated.

[Anubis RainHawk]

My suggestion to you would be to do a google search and see what Santeria groups have open rituals. I my area theres a group (and I'm sure there must be more) that do open temple services every month. I haven't had the chance to attend yet, but I'm sure I'd be a great learning experience.

[Morr]

PMing you now.

(I am Semi's wife).

;)

[Ochareo!]

So, I was called by Yemaya earlier this year. It was pretty unmistakeable but it still feels very personal, so I'd rather not go into detail about it. Anyway, I started reading up on her and Ifa/Santeria (I'd never had so much as an inkling of interest in these paths until this happened). I've used the search function and Semi's posts from when he taught a class on this have been invaluable, but I need more guidance. I know for a fact that I will not participate in animal sacrifice (not a vegetarian and I know it's part of a religious ritual, but I still can't do it), and as I understand it, that would pretty much preclude me from joing an established house - in fact, if I'm correct, Semi had to start his own house due to this.

Semi was also big on feeling free to do things on your own and untraditionally, if that's what's feels right, and I'm cool with that. The problem is, I don't want to get in over my head. For example, Semi once wrote regarding the orisha and blood, that once they have some, they'll want it regularly, which is why it would be an extremely bad idea to offer your own. Very lucky he wrote this and I read the post, or I might have gotten into trouble - this wouldn't have occurred to me. Others have written comments like it can be extremely dangerous to dabble in this if you don't know what you're doing, which is why I'm hoping someone who practices this path can help me. I would never ask anyone to reveal things that are supposed to be known to initiates only, but I also don't want to make any very bad or dangerous mistakes, and with Semi gone from MW, I'm not sure who I can turn to. I don't want to dabble, I do want to go further in this, but I also definitely don't want to pop into a random botanica and offer myself up as a student to someone I've never met and have no way of knowing I can trust. No one I know practices Ifa or santeria, so I'm hoping someone here on MW would be willing to help guide me (or at least warn me about definite no-no's). Any help really would be hugely appreciated.

Wow! I am trying to not over step my bounderies. When I read that a person stated that "the oricha once they have blood they always want it?" First I dont know what Semi said or where he/she said it. I dont want to take his/her words out of context but can only go over what you just stated.

I am sorry but there is no such thing as vegeterian orichas. Sacrificing or giving blood to oricha is done for 1. Ceramonial purposes 2. Ebbo's 3. Promises offered to the oricha. It is un true that the oricha once recieves blood will always want it. Thru divination or ceramonies you will know if blood is required and its objective for it.

AT NO TIME IS HUMAN BLOOD EVER ask in oricha worship. They are those individuals whom with there own beliefs and practices think they can turn oricha into vegitarians. In oricha if animal sacrifices are isolated or abandon then you are no longer practicing oricha, you frauding yourself and others. There is no way around it! Like in the christian faith. Jesus sacrifce his blood for his people or when the jews offered animal sacrifices to there god on there behalf like wise with the oricha. I will never go into details of ceramonies and will tolerate no one do reveal secrets. If animal sacrafice is not for you then ORICHA is not for you. Ignorence to the process perhibts your spiritual growth. When and until one understands the concept of why we do sacrifice you will appreciate the process till then, seek another practice.

I new of an Ile (house)----in oricha worship we dont have churches, rarely temples but more commonly practice are houses or Ile's ----like congergations per say. The Ile had an individual that frowned on animal sacrificing here in California. When she made ocha about 15 years ago she went to cuba and there she witness her ceramony and had no room to put her demands, however, years later decided to tell an Oraite can you use minimal sacrifices. The answer is of course absalutley not. She was scolded and told to rethink her purpose in this tradition. Sacrifice gives birth to a new begaining regardless if its for ebbo purposes or ceramonial purposes. With out them you are not practicing oricha if you are ignoring or purposely not following thru with the demands of the oricha to save your life or whatever reason.

Remember there are rules and practices that are in exisitance for its reason. Rules, practics and traditions that are not negotiable. Those who stray and invent or adopt other practices that are NOT ORICHA, are NOT PRACTICING ORICHA. If a person that wants to be a doctor choses to operate with no trainig, no medical lisence---has only taken worskshops in health. Does that make him a doctor NO! To have minimial training and even as initiated individuals when we do "non traditional" practices that are not in harmony with oricha worship then, the bottom line is you are not longer practicing oricha worship, you are basically destroying its existance, because of ones errors or ignorent mistakes or changes---many will follow and see that its common practice when in fact its not. Thats why I caution about frauds and liars.

In regards to Semi, I dont know him/her or his/her background. But if he/she trully has made changes to the fundamental practices of oricha then I asked how do you genuinely think this is fundamental. I am not bashing on this person charactor just bringing light and telling you how it is in this practice. If people get offended for being exposed or questioned about the difference of practice, then they are hiding or have egg on there face but if its part of teaching and learning to join in and clear up to have harmony in teaching this practice I embrace that.


Ochareo!

[Artiste-LiLi]

Bendicion Ochareo!

Question:

What of those who carry the belief that you can obtain the blood in another manner other than actual sacrifice? (such as from a slaughter house or butcher's shop) Then "cleanse" the blood and "dedicate" it and use it in that form.

My family does not approve of this; like you, we believe that by doing things such as this, you are fundamentally changing the practices of our family beliefs and are therefore no longer practicing "our way".

[Ochareo!]

Bendicion Ochareo!

Question:

What of those who carry the belief that you can obtain the blood in another manner other than actual sacrifice? (such as from a slaughter house or butcher's shop) Then "cleanse" the blood and "dedicate" it and use it in that form.

My family does not approve of this; like you, we believe that by doing things such as this, you are fundamentally changing the practices of our family beliefs and are therefore no longer practicing "our way".


Santo! Artiste:

This not ok! In Oricha worship everything is ritual. From the moment we obtain the rooster, or chicken ......we asked the blessing of Olodumare and the animal is presented to the individual prior to sacrifice. I will explain when I come back I am on my way out to do an interview so when I return I will continue my dialgoue.......good question by the way.

Ochareo!

[aranarose]

Even in my limited learning, I would say that obtaining the blood in any other way would not be acceptable. Permission must be granted, blessings must be received, and without direct contact with the animal, I just don't see how you can get that at all.

[Artiste-LiLi]

Santo! Artiste:

This not ok! In Oricha worship everything is ritual. From the moment we obtain the rooster, or chicken ......we asked the blessing of Olodumare and the animal is presented to the individual prior to sacrifice. I will explain when I come back I am on my way out to do an interview so when I return I will continue my dialgoue.......good question by the way.

Ochareo!

Please, I am simply "LiLi"...."Artiste" is what I "do"..I am an artist. :)

[Artiste-LiLi]

Even in my limited learning, I would say that obtaining the blood in any other way would not be acceptable. Permission must be granted, blessings must be received, and without direct contact with the animal, I just don't see how you can get that at all.

I agree.......I have heard this from people though. It is completely unacceptable within my family. For me, ritual is ritual and one does not change it! There are reasons for doing things the way they are done. Our paths are not always easy for us, but for one to be true and dedicated...one must abide by the rules or they are not practicing truly.

[aranarose]

I agree.......I have heard this from people though. It is completely unacceptable within my family. For me, ritual is ritual and one does not change it! There are reasons for doing things the way they are done. Our paths are not always easy for us, but for one to be true and dedicated...one must abide by the rules or they are not practicing truly.

I think there is some room for personalization and modification, but not much, and not until you've learned why certain things are done the way they are done, the purpose behind the ritual, the meaning of all the various things that occur in a ritual. So many people do eclecticism without regard to the meaning behind the paths that they are drawing from. They disregard the history of the ritual and the path, it loses meaning, and it loses power, then they dismiss the entire path as meaningless because it didn't work for them.

[~Elise~]

So many people do eclecticism without regard to the meaning behind the paths that they are drawing from. They disregard the history of the ritual and the path, it loses meaning, and it loses power, then they dismiss the entire path as meaningless because it didn't work for them.

QFT!!! (Quoted for Truth!!!)

Elise

[Ochareo!]

I think there is some room for personalization and modification, but not much, and not until you've learned why certain things are done the way they are done, the purpose behind the ritual, the meaning of all the various things that occur in a ritual. So many people do eclecticism without regard to the meaning behind the paths that they are drawing from. They disregard the history of the ritual and the path, it loses meaning, and it loses power, then they dismiss the entire path as meaningless because it didn't work for them.


Aranarose you are on the right path. You see in other way would be cosidered an isult and frankly deviates from the objective. You see the process gives ache---grace. You cheat yourself out of that and the oricha.
Funny thing that Artiste mention the question. Many who dont like that process or quiet frankly who dont grasp the concept of the reasoning behind the sacrifice have a hard time understanding the steps or the why this is important. We as humans dont like substitutions of our favoriate foods, like wise oricha.

Ochareo!