Why We Don't Believe in God(s)

[SSanf]

OK, so with all the world saying god(s) exist, why don't you believe?

[Trithemius]

I'm an agnostic, not an atheist, but to answer the question, I've never seen proof. Now people will say that's what makes faith 'faith' - you just believe, proof isn't necessary, or maybe isn't even possible. But here's the thing, and I'm sure a lot of people will consider this to be insulting to the gods - when you worship a god or goddess, to my way of thinking, it's supposed to be a two-way deal. You devote your time to this deity, providing attention and offerings, and in return, that deity should answer your prayers. Well, no deity has ever answered any of my prayers, or acknowledged me in any way. So why should I waste my time BS'ing around with a deity who won't so much as give me the time of day? What reason do I have for believing said deity even exists? That's right, there is no reason.

[Shanti]

Haven't met any.
Met a lot of entities from all different realms in my work, but no deity.
Not a whisper, hint, clue.
Not even the suggestion from any entity I have met either.
Even my NDE didn't produce any hint of any deity.

Do they exist for others? Very well may but as I am not others and thus for me they do not exist.

They are a non-issue for me because they are not in my realities.

[Fairy_Princess]

OK, so with all the world saying god(s) exist, why don't you believe?

The bastard/bitch never RSVP's my tea parties.



Haven't met any.
Met a lot of entities from all different realms in my work, but no deity.



With that being said... Would you even know a deity if you met one? What if the diety didn't want to be recognized as such?

[Glory]

Like Trithemius, I'm an agnostic, rather than atheist.

I don't have the ability to believe in things I have no evidence of, but I don't have the conviction to believe in the absence of gods. So it's not that I don't believe in any deities, it's just that I don't know, and I practice what I know, excluding deities from my practices

And as for the rest of the world telling me of the existence of gods... the world tells me a lot of things I don't believe in. So.

[Juliana]

I see no reason to believe in a god. I've seen no proof, no indication, no reason to believe that a god exists. If evidence presents itself I will consider it, but until then I have no belief in a god.

[~NightFire~]

Well, just like some people follow their heart/instincts/feelings/whatever, & believe that there is a God(s), I follow mine, & I believe that there isn't. ;)

[Shanti]

The bastard/bitch never RSVP's my tea parties.





With that being said... Would you even know a deity if you met one? What if the diety didn't want to be recognized as such?
In answer to both your questions, the end remains the same...I still wouldn't have any in my realities. :)

[Merrilyn]

No proof, no feeling, no will to label, name or personify, no need. When I was young I used to fear a god, until logic and heartfelt searching led me to the conclusion that I didn't know, wouldn't know, and it was just fine.

[Endless Rain]

The whole thought of an almighty creature sounds kinda ridiculous to me. I believe in forces of nature. I like to call those forces God and Goddess though, but they're not intelligent beings, they're not creators who 'designed' mankind.

[Rudas Starblaze]

OK, so with all the world saying god(s) exist, why don't you believe?

of course i exist! you all see me pretty much every day. :)

[cheddarsox]

I don't believe in deities because I've never had any experiences that make me think they exist.

I am a pantheist. I see the universe. I do stuff, and it responds. So I believe in it.

I used to try to pray and have a relationship with other deities, but they never played back.

They seem to play with others...so, if they do exist (and I don't think everyone is just making it up or crazy) they apparently aren't interested in me, but the universe is, so...I'll stick with it.

cheddar

[gwendar]

Well, as a person who was once a devout theist (Pentecostal Christian), and is now an atheist:
I don't believe in gods because there is no evidence. Personal experiences don't count, otherwise I'd be satisfied knowing "god" "healed" me of an illness when I was 14 years old. But the doctors never did know what the problem was. So there's no "before" and "after" to compare. How do I know I had what they suspected? How do I know I was healed?
I don't.
To believe in a god I'd have to rely on faith, and that is something I do not consider to be a virtue.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and all that.
:)

[Golias]

I will also add lack of evidence.

By this I mean repeatable, falsifiable objective measurable "hard" evidence that cannot be mistaken for anything else kind of evidence. That kind. Yea.

There seems to be an emotional component to this 'religious belief' thing that I lack. All belivers that I have encountered have an emotional attachment to their constellation of religious beliefs. I just don't have the same emotional buzz around mine--but none of them could be called religious, so there I stop.

Maybe it's like not being able to see certain colors or something. I don't feel any distress at my lack of it; I like my life and all. . .

It certainly is a fascinating subject to think about, tho'.

Golias

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

I would add to this that the reason I choose not to believe in gods/goddesses is that I believe them to be human creations. I feel that they are creations for explaining the ways of the universe and a way for humans to relate to and personify that which they can not remotely relate to as a whole.

I believe that there may well have been some intelligent design in the creation of the universe but I do not believe in divine beings that watch over us.

[Golias]

I would add to this that the reason I choose not to believe in gods/goddesses is that I believe them to be human creations. I feel that they are creations for explaining the ways of the universe and a way for humans to relate to and personify that which they can not remotely relate to as a whole.

I believe that there may well have been some intelligent design in the creation of the universe but I do not believe in divine beings that watch over us.

Deism?

[DoktorSick]

Being a former christian now proud atheist.
Beside the lack of evidence of any sort of god or goddess.
There is no point.And varies religions that proclaim there god
is real.I'd rather believe in the prophet stan lee and disciples spider-man,
hulk and the x-men.

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

Deism?

In a way I guess yes though I don't use that word to define myself.

[Golias]

In a way I guess yes though I don't use that word to define myself.

What is the difference between deism and your point of view?

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

What is the difference between deism and your point of view?

Very little I guess other than they believe in a god/ creator who set the wheels in motion and let the cart go it;s own way. I am unsure as to how often the original creator intervened along the way or how much has been manipulated.

[Golias]

Very little I guess other than they believe in a god/ creator who set the wheels in motion and let the cart go it;s own way. I am unsure as to how often the original creator intervened along the way or how much has been manipulated.

I see. Thanks.

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

I see. Thanks.

I'm also unsure if I believe that the origin of the intelligent design is still around in it's original form.

[Golias]

I'm also unsure if I believe that the origin of the intelligent design is still around in it's original form.

Now, *that's* an interesting thought! Please tell me more.

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

Now, *that's* an interesting thought! Please tell me more.

Well I kind of have it in my mind that the big bang was something along the lines of (for want of a better title) god blowing itself up in order to create the universe and as a bi product life as we know it. So while it's still all there it's just kind of spread out like atoms across the universe. Rather than being a distant being separate from the universe it would therefore be an actual integral part of the universe in that it is the universe. This also explains the need for gods to be made up since people find it hard to relate to a concept of this nature and for the most part religion is about control. How much control would those who crave it have if someone came round saying "Hey guess what God blew himself to bits to create everything you see and stuff you can't. So we're all God yeah and that tree over there and that mountain".

[Theres]

I've never seen proof.


Haven't met any.


I've seen no proof, no indication, no reason to believe that a god exists.


No proof


I don't believe in deities because I've never had any experiences that make me think they exist.


I don't believe in gods because there is no evidence.


By this I mean repeatable, falsifiable objective measurable "hard" evidence that cannot be mistaken for anything else kind of evidence.


the lack of evidence of any sort of god or goddess

in response to what seems too be a common thread here, i have to admit that i can't offer any imperical proof that would convince someone who chooses not to believe.
and just for the record, i (in direct opposition to most of the people here who have posted their personal histories) was an atheist for my entire life until about 15 years ago.

but just to play the devil's advocate (yeah, did ya like that? lol!) i have to point out that no one here, or any where else for that matter, has offered any 'proof' that they don't exist either.

so until that happens i have to say that atheism is as much a matter of faith as theism. and since the 'proof card' is no longer in play, that brings it down to little more than my word against yours.

so all in all it's no big deal OTHER than faith, which has proven to be good enough for me.

carry on...

[Golias]

Well I kind of have it in my mind that the big bang was something along the lines of (for want of a better title) god blowing itself up in order to create the universe and as a bi product life as we know it. So while it's still all there it's just kind of spread out like atoms across the universe. Rather than being a distant being separate from the universe it would therefore be an actual integral part of the universe in that it is the universe.

Sounds pantheistic--very creatively expressed (BTW).



This also explains the need for gods to be made up since people find it hard to relate to a concept of this nature and for the most part religion is about control. How much control would those who crave it have if someone came round saying "Hey guess what God blew himself to bits to create everything you see and stuff you can't. So we're all God yeah and that tree over there and that mountain".

Well, people* have *always told stories about what they were trying to figure out. . .

[Golias]

in response to what seems too be a common thread here, i have to admit that i can't offer any imperical proof that would convince someone who chooses not to believe.
and just for the record, i (in direct opposition to most of the people here who have posted their personal histories) was an atheist for my entire life until about 15 years ago.

but just to play the devil's advocate (yeah, did ya like that? lol!) i have to point out that no one here, or any where else for that matter, has offered any 'proof' that they don't exist either.

so until that happens i have to say that atheism is as much a matter of faith as theism. and since the 'proof card' is no longer in play, that brings it down to little more than my word against yours.

so all in all it's no big deal OTHER than faith, which has proven to be good enough for me.

carry on...

1)I wasn't aware that anyone was trying to convince me of anything
2)As far as I can tell, belief isn't something one chooses.
3)I don't have 'faith' that dieties doen't exist, I haven't encountered any evidence that convinces me that they (if multiple) do exist.
4)I'm happy that you have faith in something that meets that requirement.
5)I'm not disputing your belief. I simply do not share it.

Golias

[Branwen_Yr_Hardd]

Sounds pantheistic--very creatively expressed (BTW).




Well, people* have *always told stories about what they were trying to figure out. . .

Well I Googled pantheistic because I'm terrible with names and labels and it sounds almost similar in many way but I still wouldn't use the exact label. :)

I have bard blood so they tell me, it's my job to be creative :D.

And my job to tell stories :D.

[Theres]

1)I wasn't aware that anyone was trying to convince me of anything
nor am i aware of any such thing. i certainly am not.


4)I'm happy that you have faith in something that meets that requirement.
thank you, so am i.


5)I'm not disputing your belief. I simply do not share it.
good enough. i'm not bothered whether anyone else on the planet shares my belief, and i'm glad you feel the same.

[Golias]

nor am i aware of any such thing. i certainly am not.


thank you, so am i.


good enough. i'm not bothered whether anyone else on the planet shares my belief, and i'm glad you feel the same.

Thank you for the friendly response--I'm always interested in hearing more from people with different beliefs. I like learning.

A question for you: what do you mean by faith?

Golias

[mystic_zoe]

like other posters, i have seen no evidence on whether the gods do or dont exist, on countless times i have prayed to the gods i have had no feeling like there is anyone actually on the recieving end, or that i was being listened to.
i believe that the gods did exist when life was first created, but they arent around now, not watching over us or anything like that.

[wolfjan1]

I don't go by the "God is watching us, from a distance" theory. If God were there, there should have been some "divine" intervention.

[Golias]

I don't go by the "God is watching us, from a distance" theory. If God were there, there should have been some "divine" intervention.

Deism proposes a 'first cause' type of god that started everything and does not intervene after that.

Golias.

[mystic_zoe]

Deism proposes a 'first cause' type of god that started everything and does not intervene after that.

Golias.

I've actually been reading up on Deism..would i be right in saying that Deism proposes that god created life and got it started and then left. So therefore god is no longer around (not sure if that is the right phrase?).

[Infinite Grey]

Why do I not believe in god(s)?

Many reasons, but the most simplistic reason for not believing in a god or gods in a supernatural sense is that I've yet to a see a logical reason for a god(s) let alone empirical proof that they/it exists.

Deities started out as a way of explain natural phenomena; thunder, lightning, earth-quakes, the sun, the moon, fire, child birth... as our perception of the world around us grew more sophisticated, so did our gods. Human qualities were attached to these gods to make them a little less scary... you see, humans see the world in patterns and any answer, even the more fantastical one, is better than no answer.

But as science and culture progresses, our understanding of the world around us increases and the poor old goddies find themselves with less and less room to move.

That's what gods are, dumbo's feather, a comfort blanket to ward off the scary unknown and unknowable.

That is why I do not believe in a god or gods.

[gwendar]

in response to what seems too be a common thread here, i have to admit that i can't offer any imperical proof that would convince someone who chooses not to believe.
and just for the record, i (in direct opposition to most of the people here who have posted their personal histories) was an atheist for my entire life until about 15 years ago.

but just to play the devil's advocate (yeah, did ya like that? lol!) i have to point out that no one here, or any where else for that matter, has offered any 'proof' that they don't exist either.

so until that happens i have to say that atheism is as much a matter of faith as theism. and since the 'proof card' is no longer in play, that brings it down to little more than my word against yours.

so all in all it's no big deal OTHER than faith, which has proven to be good enough for me.

carry on...

Not sure if the bolded part has been responded to...
Generally, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim.
"Gods exist" is a claim.
"I don't believe gods exist" is not. (However, "gods certainly do not exist" is a claim requring evidence as well).

I personally do not have faith that no god exists. I just feel there is insufficient evidence to believe one does; therefore, I do not.
And faith isn't good enough for me. :)

[darkchild]

Well I kind of have it in my mind that the big bang was something along the lines of (for want of a better title) god blowing itself up in order to create the universe and as a bi product life as we know it. So while it's still all there it's just kind of spread out like atoms across the universe. Rather than being a distant being separate from the universe it would therefore be an actual integral part of the universe in that it is the universe. This also explains the need for gods to be made up since people find it hard to relate to a concept of this nature and for the most part religion is about control. How much control would those who crave it have if someone came round saying "Hey guess what God blew himself to bits to create everything you see and stuff you can't. So we're all God yeah and that tree over there and that mountain".

This fascinates me. I have never heard or read anything like it (I know, I lead a sheltered life :T). Thanks for this post, it made me think!

[The Amityville Ghost]

Generally, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim.
"Gods exist" is a claim.

It depends on the nature of the claim being made.

If you authoritatively assert that "Gods exist" (i.e., stating it as a fact), then the burden of proof weighs down on you, and you must prove that Gods exist. Of course, this is impossible, therefore it is best not to make this claim in the first place.

A much safer claim to make is that "I believe Gods exist" (i.e., stating it as an opinion). Since you are not actually claiming that Gods are real, you are just claiming that you believe in them, this is much easier to demonstrate and prove.

Now in my experience, there are many atheists who do not seem to understand this distinction, and who will say that if you believe in a deity at all, you must prove it. This is not the case. The only time a theist must prove their belief is when they are trying to persuade others to follow that belief.

For instance, if I were to say, "Everyone on this board is a wretched sinner and will burn in Hell unless they worship my God," then everyone would have the right (and the responsibility) to demand proof of my God's existence, and of my theological claims about my God. And since I could not give such proof, then I would be forced to accept the fact that I cannot win any converts.

(In reality, proselytism is considered a sin in my religion.)

Likewise, if an atheist says, "Everyone who believes in a deity is an idiot and needs to learn to accept the fact that there is no God," that atheist will be required to provide proof of their claim. This would actually be much more difficult, since it is pretty damn hard to prove a negative. But the burden of proof would nevertheless be there. The burden of proof is always there whenever an attempt at persuasion is made. If there is no attempt at persuasion, there is no burden of proof.

The following is something I wrote for my blog a while back:

http://amityvilleghost.livejournal.com/2786.html

It cannot be proven that God exists.

It cannot be proven that She doesn't exist.

It is a logical fallacy to authoritatively assert that God exists, simply because there is no evidence that She doesn't.

Likewise, it is a logical fallacy to authoritatively assert that God doesn't exist, simply because there is no evidence that She does.

However, theists will be theists, and atheists will be atheists. Neither side will ever be able to convince the other, at least not in the long run.

Since neither side can be proven or disproven, reason dictates that adherents of both sides should agree to disagree. Instead of wasting our time arguing over whether God exists or not, we should accept each other for what we are, and resolve ourselves to live in peace.

[David19]

Not sure if the bolded part has been responded to...
Generally, the burden of proof is on the one making the positive claim.
"Gods exist" is a claim.
"I don't believe gods exist" is not. (However, "gods certainly do not exist" is a claim requring evidence as well).

To be fair, both claims need "proof", an Atheist will say "Gods don't exist" or "the supernatural doesn't exist" - prove it, a Theist will say they do exist, again, needs proof.

IMO, agnostics have the better path - they admit you can't be sure one way or the other, also agnostics lack the fundamentalism and bigotry of both Theistic religions and Atheism.

[Golias]

It depends on the nature of the claim being made.

If you authoritatively assert that "Gods exist" (i.e., stating it as a fact), then the burden of proof weighs down on you, and you must prove that Gods exist. Of course, this is impossible, therefore it is best not to make this claim in the first place.

A much safer claim to make is that "I believe Gods exist" (i.e., stating it as an opinion). Since you are not actually claiming that Gods are real, you are just claiming that you believe in them, this is much easier to demonstrate and prove.

Now in my experience, there are many atheists who do not seem to understand this distinction, and who will say that if you believe in a deity at all, you must prove it. This is not the case. The only time a theist must prove their belief is when they are trying to persuade others to follow that belief.

For instance, if I were to say, "Everyone on this board is a wretched sinner and will burn in Hell unless they worship my God," then everyone would have the right (and the responsibility) to demand proof of my God's existence, and of my theological claims about my God. And since I could not give such proof, then I would be forced to accept the fact that I cannot win any converts.

(In reality, proselytism is considered a sin in my religion.)

Likewise, if an atheist says, "Everyone who believes in a deity is an idiot and needs to learn to accept the fact that there is no God," that atheist will be required to provide proof of their claim. This would actually be much more difficult, since it is pretty damn hard to prove a negative. But the burden of proof would nevertheless be there. The burden of proof is always there whenever an attempt at persuasion is made. If there is no attempt at persuasion, there is no burden of proof.

The following is something I wrote for my blog a while back:

http://amityvilleghost.livejournal.com/2786.html

It cannot be proven that God exists.

It cannot be proven that She doesn't exist.

It is a logical fallacy to authoritatively assert that God exists, simply because there is no evidence that She doesn't.

Likewise, it is a logical fallacy to authoritatively assert that God doesn't exist, simply because there is no evidence that She does.

However, theists will be theists, and atheists will be atheists. Neither side will ever be able to convince the other, at least not in the long run.

Since neither side can be proven or disproven, reason dictates that adherents of both sides should agree to disagree. Instead of wasting our time arguing over whether God exists or not, we should accept each other for what we are, and resolve ourselves to live in peace.


Thank you for this post. It made my brain light up all over.

I find myself able to agree with everything you say here.

Golias.

[Golias]

To be fair, both claims need "proof", an Atheist will say "Gods don't exist" or "the supernatural doesn't exist" - prove it, a Theist will say they do exist, again, needs proof.


This athiest does not say "Gods do not exist" or "the supernatural does not exist". Those are knowledge claims; I do not claim to have that knowledge.

Any such claims I make are based on my beliefs regarding such matters.





IMO, agnostics have the better path - they admit you can't be sure one way or the other, also agnostics lack the fundamentalism and bigotry of both Theistic religions and Atheism.

Do remember that although some people who identify as athiests do, at times, express their opinions in a funamentalist and bigoted fashion, they do not represent the opinions of all atheists.

Golias

[Silvan]

someone who chooses not to believeI don't think you can choose to believe. You can choose to try to believe, but you either believe, or you don't.
was an atheist for my entire life until about 15 years agoI was until... Um. 1997 I think? Now I'm an Arborvitian, but I still don't really know if that's a religion or a philosophy.

no one here, or any where else for that matter, has offered any 'proof' that they don't exist eitherIt's almost impossible to prove a negative.

so until that happens i have to say that atheism is as much a matter of faith as theismI'd agree with that in principle, though I still find the whole notion that we're supposed to believe in gods kind of silly and irrational.

I guess that's where my quest has taken me. Why is there so much pressure from society to believe this goofy stuff? I like the goofy stuff, and I use a lot of goofy stuff in my own simulated artificial religion-like thingie, but I don't take any of it that seriously. I think things tend to go badly wrong when anyone takes any of this too seriously, and closes one's mind to other perspectives.

and since the 'proof card' is no longer in play, [I]that brings it down to little more than my word against yoursThat has always been true. It helps if you can back your word up with a book supposedly written by the one true all-powerful everything deity though. Which at least two major world religions do with great vehemence.

I started to write my own book too, the Arborvitian equivalent of the Bible, but I found I had no more than about five pages to say about any of this stuff. Some Bible.

Maybe I should publish it anyway. It's a very succinct and non-prescriptive religionesque philosophical thingie.

Nice to be back at MW, and to find a place for non-theists to play. Though I'm not sure I'm entirely a non-theist. Sometimes I feel like believing in Gaia, and sometimes I think it's all stupid and ludicrous, but I always think magical symbols are awesomely cool, and that taking anything too seriously is scary.