Do witches pray?

[Sage Rainsong]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask their respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?

[VioletJadeWolf]

I think practitioners of every religion pray in some way, including witches. I personally pray almost every day.

[~*Sacred*~]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask theor respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?

I pray.
When I want something, I will for it to happen with the guidance of the Sacred. If/When it comes true/happens, I do another prayer/ritual thanking the Sacred and sending my thanks to the Earth to replenish the energy I took for my spell to work.

I think prayer can be many different forms. I use the word prayer interchangeably with spells/rituals etc...

I'm sure some witches don't pray. We aren't all the same or have the same beliefs.

[Catiana]

I do, every day.

[Philosophia]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask theor respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?

I pray. For me, it helps me to calm me down and think more clearly. So, I disagree with the statement.

[ravenscape]

I think of ritual/spellwork as intensified prayer. As Emeril says, "let's kick it up a notch".

[moonbride]

I pray... just about every day.

[Snapdragon]

Without a definition of 'pray' and 'prayer', any response is not going to be terribly meaningful.

That said, the best discussion of this by a witch that I've found, is by Diane Sylvan in her excellent little book, The Circle Within. I commend it to you.

[David19]

I think a lot of witches pray, to their deities (if they have one) or just general well-being prayers (whether they have any deities or not).

I personally don't see magic and prayer as the same thing - prayer is usually asking a higher power (god, angel, saint, hero, even demon, etc) for something or blessings, magic is more using your own power (mane or whatever you want to call it) and willpower to make something happen (although some magic uses a lot of supernatural beings, like Goetic magic, Enochian, etc).

[Semele]

Just because ne might choose to take a more active role in spiritual matters, ie Will, as you mentioned, they still give thanks to the powers that they are allowed to weild. They tend to see the beauty in mundane things.

[Laoghaire]

I do pray, but I do not pray for everything and nothing...

Good, before I give my explanation, just keep in mind that I live in Belgium...

When I came here, I was so surprised. Especially the paths-board drew my attention. Gradually, I discovered more and more... So I came across the Helping Hands-board. When reading the messages there, I noticed you guys pray so much... For everyone it seems... Most be a lot of praying all day long...

I pray for myself, in other words, I talk to my God and my Goddess. I do not pray for other people, although I will light a candle if they want me to (and only if they want me too!). The thing is... Praying is for me a very Christian thing to do. And again, that's MY personal view on the matter.
It's also, if you will excuse me, a very 'American thing' to do... I can see it on tv, whenever something needs to be done, Americans tend to pray. I do not say that's wrong, not at all! It's just how I perceive it... And in a way, I can see this extensive prayers here on MW.

[Willow Rosette]

I do pray. And sometimes in the old fashion fingers laced together eyes closed pose. I use prayer as more of a method of giving thanks. Like praying at a meal, I am giving thanks for the food we have been blessed to have and the company that is there with me.

If I "pray" for someone who is sick typically I will light a stick of incense and ask that the smoke take my Prayer to be heard. I ran pray through Dictionary.com and here is what came up:

"To utter or address a prayer or prayers to God, a god, or another object of worship."

[serenarian]

I speak to the God and Goddess regularly, during ritual, or when I feel I need strength. I suppose you could call that prayer, I certainly think of it that way - although I don't refer to it as praying. :)

[LisaT4P]

I think of ritual/spellwork as intensified prayer. As Emeril says, "let's kick it up a notch".I agree with this. The only other types of prayer that I usually offer are of thanks... for a beautiful day, for living through traffic, etc. LOL

I would like to recommend Ceswir Serith's book on pagan prayer. I've found it to be quite useful when trying to incorporate a more spiritual (as opposed to social) feeling in my rituals.

[Rudas Starblaze]

taken from my post asking is non-theists pray......



i wouldnt call so much of a prayer or that its directed at anything. just more a daily spell for protection, healing, help, and happiness for my few loved ones.

[Teresa]

To me, a spell is a form of prayer. Sending out your desires to the Universe willing it to come to be. Also to give thanks as well .

Some may see communing with the Ancestors, Loa, Spirits, Creator/Divine Entities as a form of prayer as well.

Ask others and you may get different answers. IMO it is a personal choice.

[River]

I pray.

[Autumnsong]

I personally believe that prayer and spells are two completely different things. While in my group we do ask the Gods/Goddesses to watch over our ritual and protect us, we are working our own will inside the circle.

A prayer, then, is asking those deities for help, for strength, etc. It's like a plea directly to them for guidence, or in some cases directly thanking them for assistance.

That said, I do pray, but not often. I feel like my life is mine to control, and only when I am absolutely out of options do I ask for assistance. What's that saying? "God only helps those who first help themselves"? I think that applies pretty much anywhere... and so if I need something or want it to happen, I try my hardest before I go and ask for help. Otherwise I kinda feel lazy and guilty for not giving it a shot first. Heh

[Mahren]

I pray. Actually I prayed a lot more once I began to follow a pagan path, I never prayed much as a christain.

As for prayer being an American thing, yeah I see that. Sort of. T.V. shows like Seventh Heaven, Big Love, The Book of David and Carnivale (For you HBO fans out there) have christian themes. This country has a strong and vocal christian community and that comes up in our T.V. shows.

[KylalaKitty]

I pray.

[Xirian]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask theor respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?
I see prayer as a tool just as I see witchcraft as a tool and religion as a tool. They all are useful at certain times for me and I try to use my intuition to realize what I need when. Yes, I pray, I always have and probably always will. I also will for things to happen, but that rarely involves the Gods.

However, I also believe that prayer isn't just talking to the Gods. I believe that prayer is a bit more involved than simply communicating with the deities. I believe it involves reverence of some kind, perhaps a lowering of one's self. When I am communicating with my deities, I am not always specifically revering them for being who they are, I do not feel like I am their equal, but I do not feel as though I am beneath them as I do when I pray, if that makes any sense.

I do not know if all witches pray. Some may not. Some may not worship any deities and therefore may have no need to pray. I worship deities and I communicate with some deities and I pray to some deities. It all depends.

[Liesl]

I think that's personal to every witch and his/her system of belief.I pray,because it's almost second nature to me bing raised a catholic but since witchcraft is so diverse and there are such varying definitions of deities(if they're even acknowledged) there's no consensus on prayer.At the end of the day,each witch is unique and must do what feels right acording to their system of belief.

[Shanti]

Yes to both. Some do pray and some don't.
It all is individual choice and perspective.

[Beowulf]

I pray three times a day. Its like eating.

[Rudas Starblaze]

i just want you all to know that i do hear your prayers and i dont answer them for a reason. :lol:

[Naroddrec]

I pray to Brighid at times... I feel that is just as valid a method as any. Spells are good for some things, prayers for others, sheer willpower for yet other things. Some would even argue that they are one and the same.

[Xirian]

i just want you all to know that i do hear your prayers and i dont answer them for a reason. :lol:
Well, at least you're listening!!! :lol: :lol: That's all one can ask for.

[Voyager]

I am Wiccan that practices Witchcraft. I do spellwork, but I also pray. When things manifest, I have a wonderful thank you prayer I love saying.

[Fairy_Princess]

Prayer = wishing = "Willing something to happen" it's all the same thing.

[maelstrom]

Yeah, I pray. I can't say I do it everyday, but I do it more days than I don't. I usually say thanks, for the things in my life that I'm grateful for, and ask that the Lord and Lady watch over those I love. If I have something important on my mind, I find it helps to talk it over with Deity. I also say grace over meals when I remember, thanking the gods for the bounty I receive in my life.

[happynomad]

I speak to my Gods daily on an informal basis, mostly I curse at them and they laugh at me, then I do as I'm advised and things usually turn out for the better. I also give thanks at every meal, but this is a recent development due to a recent epiphany, which I find quite gratifying, as it appeals to me appreciation of an elegant solution. It should be noted that this thanks goes to the Gods and to that which had to die to feed me.

Do I pray for help? Not lately, but I used to. if you live your life as fully as you can, to take everything in life as useful and important, show respect for others until they no longer deserve it, live your life according to solid ethical principles, and try as hard as possible to have your words, thoughts and deeds all in accordance, your life is a prayer, and a temple to your gods.

Just a thought
-Nomad

[Libris]

I do sometimes, not every day, not even every week. Although I quietly mutter "please go back to sleep, please go back to sleep" over and over again when Midi starts to wake up in the middle of the night. It seems to work sometimes LOL

[aluokaloo]

yes many d, and I'm sure there are those who don't. My friend sums it up nicely, praying is talking to divinity, meditating is listening. I pray

[IvyWitch]

The problem with the statement is that it assumes that the only use for prayer is asking for something. I think that's a faulty assumption to start with. The way I have observed the dynamics of practices of many Pagans, prayer is the simple act of conversing with the Gods. Magic is for when you want/need something.

[RainInanna]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask theor respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?

IvyWitch has an excellent point. There are many different kinds of prayers. My prayers are usually devotionals - prayers of thanksgiving and re-affirming my connection with the Sacred. Aside from that, I consider life to be a co-creative process - me *and* God, not just one or the other.

[Cassie]

My prayers are usually devotional or thanksgiving, but I sometimes pray for advice or strength before attempting any complicated spellwork.

I also use prayer for other people when I honestly don't know what is the best way to help them, or when I would normally do energy work but feel run down or lacking in personal energy.

For whatever reason I pray it always (or mostly) makes me feel closer to my matron Goddess and to the divine in general.

[Adrianus]

I think a lot of witches pray, to their deities (if they have one) or just general well-being prayers (whether they have any deities or not).

I personally don't see magic and prayer as the same thing - prayer is usually asking a higher power (god, angel, saint, hero, even demon, etc) for something or blessings, magic is more using your own power (mane or whatever you want to call it) and willpower to make something happen (although some magic uses a lot of supernatural beings, like Goetic magic, Enochian, etc).

Exactly correct.

[*oonagh*]

i also pray three times a day. i try to include gratitude in each one. to me, rituals and spells are "prayers with props" and i perform those as well on holidays and on the full and new moon.

[LadyWinter]

I pray and it usually goes like this:

DEAR GODS!!!!!!! I dont know how but I have screwed up again...could you help me out?

OR

DEAR GODS!!!! THE HO HOS...WHERE ARE THE HO HOS????

Seriously I would agree with what others have said.....I talk to my Gods and they talk to me...

but they wont really give me a straight answer on the ho ho location...probably for my own good...

Winter

[Whitewolf]

It depends on the witch. Some do, others don't.

[SilentDreams]

This comes into one's definition of a witch.

To me it is someone who practices the art of witchcraft, not a religion or spiritual path. So, a witch could pray to help achieve their goal but that wouldn't be witchcraft. That would be using their spirituality to gain what they want.

Or perhaps you mean Pagans and other practitioners of "alternative" faiths? Yes they do pray. It really depends on the person though, not so much the path. I'm Pagan and I pray every time before I go to sleep. I ask my Mother and Father that my family and I are protected from various negative things and I thank them over and over for being so wonderful and magnificent.

But to me that's my spirituality. Nothing to do with witchcraft. If a witch is praying he/she is just turning to their spirituality not their craft.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

[aluokaloo]

I pray and it usually goes like this:

DEAR GODS!!!!!!! I dont know how but I have screwed up again...could you help me out?

OR

DEAR GODS!!!! THE HO HOS...WHERE ARE THE HO HOS????

Seriously I would agree with what others have said.....I talk to my Gods and they talk to me...

but they wont really give me a straight answer on the ho ho location...probably for my own good...

Winter


uh-oh *runs for her life clutching the ho-hos desperately to her chest!*

[Theres]

Do witches pray?
this one does.

[aluokaloo]

Dear Gods please pleasem please don't let ladywinter catch me with her secret stash of hohos!

[childofbast]

I pray often. I also consider praying to form of magic.

[Autumn-Forest]

I think of ritual/spellwork as intensified prayer. As Emeril says, "let's kick it up a notch".

Haha, I agree. Our form of praying comes in spellwork, ritual work and light work. I do, however, pray. I try to pray twice every day. I ask the Goddess and God for me to have a good day and wish them the same, and then at night I ask to have a good night with sweet dreams and them the same. :)

be well,
Autumn

[Race_Angel]

I also pray almost everyday, for several reasons. But I also disagree with the statement. I think that everyone pray`s once, we all have those moments i think . Where you need help, hope, convedence etc.

[Jayms_fallen_angel]

I pray all the time. When my pets are ill you see me praying until I literally pass out from exhaustion! But on normal occassions....
I will often talk to the gods such as "Oh please Cronus father of time, help me make this deadline" it's natural. Especially with pagans as our gods (well in my sect anyway) are part of our daily lives. They're not some abstract being watching over us they are part of everything we do and everwhere we go.

[imapepper]

Well for me, magick and prayer are the same thing because the ultimate outcome of magick is Gods decision. Those are just my views though. However, I also don't see magick as the only form of prayer, I think just living a life with heart and being an honest, true person, are forms of prayer as well, because by honoring yourself and your heart, IMO you honor God, you honor life. Prayer, to me, isn't just about asking for things, it's also about being thankful and gnosis.

When I'm true to myself, when I perform magick, when I exercise love and kindness, when I go to church, or when I just close my eyes to meditate and speak with God, to me, that's all prayer. So yeah, I pray all the time. My favorite way to pray is just talking out loud when I'm alone to God, like an old friend, and just saying "What's up? This is what's going on...", though formal prayers are nice too.

[happynomad]

Heres a recent one of my conversations:

There I was, no kidding, finning along in forty feet heading back to shore after a lovely dive at the Metridium Fields, and lo, I behold a dive light on the bottom.

Me: Free dive light! Yay! “Does happy neutral buoyancy dance”.

Mysterious Female Voice In My Head: See if it’s got a name.

Me: Go away! My light, Finders keepers, losers weepers!

MFVIMH: Check it.

Me:, yeah, so it’s got a name, but it’s weird, I’ll never find this person, it’s too odd, I bet it’s some company or something.

MFVIMH: ‘Metaphorical eyebrows raised’ Check it later. You were an investigator, investigate. Didn’t you once find someone with a misspelled name and a bad address that was forty years out of date? Surely you can just check.

LATER:

MFVIMH: Did you google it?

Me: Nope.

MFVIMH: Hmmmm.

Me : OK, whatever.

Me: it’s a research organization, studying the kelp ecosystem.

MFVIMH: Imagine that. Now you can send it back.

Me: Finders keepers-

MFVIMH: Losers weepers, so you keep saying. This organization seeks to better understand Me. In order to preserve an ecosystem under threat from your species lack of understanding. They do My work. They seek to balance the environment and your species. When the kelp beds are lost, and the otters missing, and the sea lions have no haul outs to rest, and the sharks leave, and there are no fish, will you weep? I think so.

Me: It’s just one light.

MFVIMH: Yes it is one small light. But they will have to replace it, drawing resources away from their main purpose. Avalanches are started by one flake of snow, and floods with one drop of rain. The drop not does think it’s responsible for the flood, but it is. It’s not about one light, but thousands of lights gone dark. It’s about resources being drawn to the wrong place, it’s death by thousand small neglects, the death one fish is nothing, but millions die uselessly, because their true value goes unknown. Humans curse the Fey because they are given gold, and then they return to their world, and see it’s a bucket of fallen maple leaves and think they are cheated. I ask you, what is cold metal next to the wellspring of the next generation of life? Those leaves will decay, and in turn feed you all for as long as the world turns, and you mock it. It is my very essence, and turn it away, and say “its just leaves” It is truly Me, life incarnate. All large things are made of countless infinitesimal acts.

Return the light, let them do their work. Or not. The choice is, as always, yours.

I shipped the light back today.

[Rosetta Morrigan]

I pray. And when I do spells, I consider that prayer too. Prayer with props.

[Darth Brooks]

To me, a spell is a form of prayer. Sending out your desires to the Universe willing it to come to be. Also to give thanks as well .

Some may see communing with the Ancestors, Loa, Spirits, Creator/Divine Entities as a form of prayer as well.

Ask others and you may get different answers. IMO it is a personal choice.

QFT.

IMO prayer and magic are really the same thing, even when it comes to such distinctions as "lower magic" (which I prefer to think of as "operative magic" rather than "lower") and "higher magic" (which I prefer to call "initiatory magic").

I see operative magic as essentially following the same principle as supplication, which is otherwise called a "prayer of petition." In both cases, one attempts to influence a higher power into accommodating oneself with a particular result one desires - whether that higher power happens to be an external deity, an impersonal force, or one's own higher self.

I see initiatory magic as essentially following the same principle as prayer in the more mystical sense of the word, which is a meditative state of communion with a higher power. In both cases, one attempts to unify oneself with a higher power, both temporarily and (eventually) for good - again, whether that higher power happens to be an external deity, an impersonal force, or one's own higher self.

In principle, it is very difficult for me to see how casting a spell for one's mother to recover from a terrible illness is really all that different from praying to a God or Goddess for the same result. It is also difficult for me to see how a Thelemite "crossing the Abyss" to "converse with the Holy Guardian Angel" is really any different from a Sufi mystic attempting to dissolve the barrier between himself and Allah by entering a state of intense meditative prayer. The rituals, the litanies, the particular forces invoked, and the way the process is described may be different, but I believe the principle is ultimately the same.

So to answer the question, yes, I believe witches do pray. But whether they pray to an external deity or to their own immanent divinity is for them to decide, and whether they characterize what they do as prayer or magic is also for them to decide. But to my thinking, even a Sufi mystic would count as a variety of witch, and a Wiccan who Draws Down the Moon would count as a mystic. (Alas, I do have a tendency to annoy people by reconciling "opposites" in ways that disturb their neatly compartmentalized views of the world, Set willing.)

Sorry if I've offended anyone, but that's just the way I see it.

[green aventurine]

It's an interesting perspective, Darth, still thinking about it...

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

Wouldnt a petition be similar to a prayer?

[Sage Rainsong]

Wow, I kind of forgot about this post. I'm glad that it has been revived. Anyway, since I have posted the thread I have come to the conclusion that prayer and spells are not quite the same thing. I may have stated my position on a couple of threads but I think that it is an important topic. To me prayer is communing with some kind of spirit and/or deity for various purposes. A spell is sending out your own will in order to get something accomplished. It can get a little fuzzy because you can call upon the aide of various spirits in a spell however, asking for a spirit to lend power/blessings to a working is not the same thing as asking a spirit to do something for you. IMO you need spirits to pray but not to do spells. Many witches do not call upon any sort of spirit for help. However, many do, myself included. So I do not subscribe to the belief that all real witches never pray. It merely depends on the witch.

[WildThing]

I pray more often than I will for things. It goes along with the fact that I try to follow a modernized code of chivalry (owing loyalty not so much to my liege lord, but to my Goddess, etc.) -- part of it is that I seek to be humble.
I will when it seems appropriate, and I pray all times else.

Technically speaking, alot of magick is a form of prayer. Alot of religions pray without calling it prayer.

Witches pray often, in my opinion, whether they call it prayer or not.

Prayer is defined as; "A thought or intention sent out to something someone believes in."

[Darth Brooks]

Wow, I kind of forgot about this post. I'm glad that it has been revived. Anyway, since I have posted the thread I have come to the conclusion that prayer and spells are not quite the same thing. I may have stated my position on a couple of threads but I think that it is an important topic. To me prayer is communing with some kind of spirit and/or deity for various purposes. A spell is sending out your own will in order to get something accomplished. It can get a little fuzzy because you can call upon the aide of various spirits in a spell however, asking for a spirit to lend power/blessings to a working is not the same thing as asking a spirit to do something for you. IMO you need spirits to pray but not to do spells. Many witches do not call upon any sort of spirit for help. However, many do, myself included. So I do not subscribe to the belief that all real witches never pray. It merely depends on the witch.

You make a very good point - people who pray normally believe in external deities, while people who practice magic don't have to believe in external deities. But, if we understand the term "Will" to mean something along the lines of how Crowley used it - i.e., your higher Self, the part of you that compels you to fulfill your personal destiny, and which is like a river spouting from the universal Will - then IMO at least, practitioners of magic are still invoking, supplicating, and/or entering into a state of prayer with a higher power. I don't think it matters if the higher power one engages is believed to exist outside or within the person; the idea of attempting to influence that higher power to change situations or things as one desires fits the label of "supplication" just as easily as it fits the label of "operative magic." (Supplication counts as a form of influence.) And the idea of tapping into that higher power to change oneself fits the label of "meditative prayer" just as easily as it fits the label of "initiatory magic." IMO, to believe that the higher power invoked comes from within rather than from without is only a difference in perspective, not a difference in principle.

Again, JMO. Not trying to step on anyone's toes.

[Darth Brooks]

Wouldnt a petition be similar to a prayer?

Yes, it counts as one definition of prayer. But the word "prayer" has been used to mean a lot of different things, and in its most basic sense, it is simply a state of communion with a higher power - like if you were to focus and meditate on a particular deity for an hour every day, or something like that. In this kind of prayer no particular request is made of the deity - one is just basking in the deity's presence. Some people use the word "supplication" to refer more specifically to the sort of prayer when one asks a God or Goddess for things. Like if one asks a deity to help them find a better job, that is an example of supplicating said deity.

[Ladysadefairy]

I pray sometimes , to say a small thank you to the lord and lady and God and Goddess..

to show how much I Appreacite them .for all they done..for this wonderful planet..that beholds so many beautys

[Pagan's Sword]

Most definitely!

[Louisvillian]

I have often heard it said that witches do not pray. When they want something, they will for it to happen rather than ask their respective deities. Other people say that prayer is simply talking to the gods and so many witches pray all of the time. So what do you think MW? Is their any truth in the statement, a witch never prays?

Well, not all prayer is supplication.
But, even so, I see no reason why a witch would not pray, provided that they are theistic.

[AmadoreEdana123]

i know i pray almost everyday. :hyper:

[Kalioppee]

Although I am not Wiccan which Diane Sylvan is, I did find her book rather good reading. I am a witch and practice witchcraft and do not worship any deities, but I have been able to adapt her prayers and devotionals to give respect and honor those I work with. I also found a book by Galina Krasskova and Raven Kaldera Northern Tradition for the Solitary Practitioner very good too in that respect. It is a book of prayer, devotional practice, and the Nine worlds of Spirit for the Norse practitioner.


Without a definition of 'pray' and 'prayer', any response is not going to be terribly meaningful.

That said, the best discussion of this by a witch that I've found, is by Diane Sylvan in her excellent little book, The Circle Within. I commend it to you.

[~*Sacred*~]

As of my beliefs now.. I pray. I pray to the Sacred, I pray to my Goddesses, I pray to my higher self etc..

[herbal_legends]

I don't pray to any particular God or Goddess but I do often pray to, what I like to call, my Source.

[Selah]

Yes, I pray all the time. :)

[Aaden Aeval]

Yes, all witches pray - that is essentially what spellcraft is, IMHO. An epic prayer. :P

[TheLittleWitchy]

I don't pray to any deities, but I do pray to nature and any spirits that may be lurking in there. ;)