Can't Stop Astral Projecting/Having OBEs

[IrishDancer]

My mom and I seem to have a natural talent for astral projection. We used to do it together (accidentally), and she discovered it in her 20s, having no idea what it was or what was happening to her. I learned about it at age 13 and actually attempted it, with success on my first try.

Since then, I CANNOT STOP. It doesn't happen as often anymore, but sometimes I just WANT TO SLEEP. I experience sleep paralysis, hear the I'm-about-to-leave-my-body loudness and start fighting to stay in my body.

Astral projection started to scare me when mom and I started being pulled from our bodies when we didn't want to be. I asked her one day, "If we're not doing it, who is? And who on earth would want us out of our bodies so badly and why?" At the time, it scared me that maybe someone scary was waiting for me on the other side. Now I just wonder if something wants to take over my body or something.

Point is, it scares me when I can't control it. If I could do it when I wanted to, great. But it happens when I'm really tired and just want to sleep. So I have a few questions.

a.) Why is this happening to me and why did it happen to my mom?
b.) How do I stop it from happening? Sometimes I have to fight ALL NIGHT and signal my husband to wake me by wiggling my fingers or trying to breathe erratically.
c.) Do you think it's possible to visit dead loved ones via astral travel?
d.) I know it was happening before she died, but is there a chance my mom's trying to make me do this to visit her?

[Rudas Starblaze]

youve been under alot of stress ID, you might not actually be astral traveling when you sleep, but you could be having VERY vidid dreams caused by the stress. when im stressed, i have a very hard time telling the difference between reality and the dream state because they are both identical and ill feel like i havent slept in weeks. try astral traveling while youre awake and then compare the differences between the two. youre consious mind may not be shutting down properly when your subconsious mind should be in control (as in sleeping) and that could be causing your problems.

[IrishDancer]

Well, I might agree with you because I have been having lots of nightmares about mom -- but with the astral travel thing, I'm not actually going anywhere. Like there aren't any vivid dreams going on. I've been fighting it off, which is always exhausting to do. Also, this isn't a new thing since the stress. This has been happening for yeaaars. It just so happens I really need sleep now, so I'm really fed up and want it to stop!

The other night, I woke my husband up because my hand was on his shoulder, and I fought the paralysis enough to wiggle my fingers a lot and wake him up. He thought I was having a nightmare and woke me. I told him what was happening and that I couldn't stop, and even AS I WAS TELLING HIM, it was happening! I was being pulled from my body and I couldn't stop it. I've never had it happen to the point where even waking myself up and talking won't stop it.

Does this change your opinion at all?

[Rudas Starblaze]

it does bring on an interesting point. ive never met anyone that does it unwillingly though. its hard enough for some people who've studied and practiced AT/AP to get it down. have you been meditating and/or thinking alot before you go to bed? that might be automatically triggering it to happen if you do.

if you dont have a TV in your room, you might get one, put it on the science channel or cartoon network and try watching that for a while before you fall asleep. you might need to bore your consious mind to tears and watching stuff like that helps me take my mind off of reality and helps me sleep. (well, unless the kitters are climbing all over me!)

[IrishDancer]

I guess I do always think a lot before I sleep, and I know my mom did too. I don't meditate, but I think when I pray before I sleep, it's like a deep meditation. When I pray, I feel really dizzy and like I'm sinking as I slowly spin. Does that ever happen when you meditate?

For some reason, astral travel's never been a problem for me or my mom. She did it accidentally and I never knew that anyone had to work on it until I was much older. Maybe that's why it was easy for me. I was 13 and didn't know any better, but then it was like that first time unlocked something for me.

The weird thing is, when I do astral travel, I can just think "oh hey, I want to be back in my body" or if I get scared, I'll just pop right back in. So you'd think if I'm screaming in my head, "NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO THIS" and if I'm struggling to move my toes and "wake up," I'd stay in my body and wouldn't have to fight so much. This is 100%, completely against my will. That's what freaks me out about it. God gave me free will, so WHAT is doing this to me?

I'll try your TV idea and see if it works. That often helps me sleep when I'm thinking too much.

[Rudas Starblaze]

you also might try praying a couple hours before you go to bed and make sure your body is not relaxed while doing so. im sure God will understand and wont hold it against ya.;)

another option, before you go to bed, focus on finding the door from your mind that leads you to the astral realm and focus on "picking up the key" that unlocks and opens the door. tell yourself over and over before you fall asleep....

"i have control, i will take the key, i will unlock the door and enter when i want to enter, i have control."

then while youre holding the key, shut and lock the door and put the key into your pocket. and always remember where you keep the key for when you want to astral travel so you can open and close the door at will.

give that a try, its worth a shot.;)

[IrishDancer]

That's a great idea! I'll try that visualization every night for a little while.

[Glowy]

I would cleanse the house, especially the bedroom. I wold also wear an amulet to bed. Taking those steps might subconsciously make you feel safer and not worry that AP is going to happen.

[Sobeq]

I, personally, would light candles, pray, and make an offering of cool water. I don't know that this would resonate with your personal path, but if you can translate it into something that does, I do hope it helps. I would also write out a prayer or something on an index card and draw a meaningful symbol on it above and/or below the prayer. Under my pillow I have a prayer to the Set-animal to turn evil away, with a picture of the Set animal above the words and an udjat below them. Writing a Hail Mary, or a prayer to a saint associated with sleeping if you venerate the saints might be equivalent.

As for your questions...
a.) It might just be a tendency your mom and you have. I find it improbable that anyone would astral project independent of their own will, but I suppose it's possible if it's happening to you... there's got to be a reason.

b.) Well, I already answered that above. ;)

c.) Yes and no. I think there's a middle meeting ground where you could meet up, but I'm not sure that you can travel to the dead-place, being alive.


d.) Only you can know that.

[IrishDancer]

Rudas, so far your idea (the visualization and TV)'s been working. Then again, I tend to go through spurts where I astral project and fight with it every night, and then sometimes it won't happen for a couple months. I'll definitely keep you updated!

I also wondered the other day if it might happen when I'm very tired. If I'm way overtired and have been up for ages, I get kind of hyper when I'm beyond sleepy, then I decide to go to bed because my body feels tired, and I think my body may go to sleep but my brain may stay awake.

Anyway, so far, so good. Also, great ideas from Autumnglow and Sobeq! As far as an amulet, I can't do that religiously, but cleansing in the form of praying and maybe some holy water would probably work. Do you think another entity might be trying to get me to do this? That's what I kind of sense, and that it isn't God, but I hear that's a common occurrence in the sleep paralysis state. Then again, that doesn't mean it's not really happening to those people.

And yes, Sobeq. Not sure why offering cool water would help, but maybe the holy water idea? Or offering something to God? Christians don't really make offerings to God anymore, but a month or two ago, I was eating honey dew and had the perfect, most juicy bite, and I decided to give it to God. It was gone a couple days later! I watched it wither, and it smelled great. But it withered into nothing! So maybe did you mean offering God some water? If it's to appease the spirit that may be doing this to me, I'd rather not (personal path thing you mentioned :hugz:). But I remember when this was happening when I was around 14 or 15 (mom and I also had spirits knocking us out of bed and opening our doors, among other things), she blessed the rooms with holy water. That night, the "thing" got more violent, but then it went away. That might be a good idea. What do you think is happening?

Thank you for answering my questions!

[Fairy_Princess]

YOu should just get really drunk every night before bed!

[Rudas Starblaze]

Rudas, so far your idea (the visualization and TV)'s been working. Then again, I tend to go through spurts where I astral project and fight with it every night, and then sometimes it won't happen for a couple months. I'll definitely keep you updated!

I also wondered the other day if it might happen when I'm very tired. If I'm way overtired and have been up for ages, I get kind of hyper when I'm beyond sleepy, then I decide to go to bed because my body feels tired, and I think my body may go to sleep but my brain may stay awake.


hopefully now you will have full control of the AP experiences.:) and definatly keep me updated either in PMs or here!

and yep, that will cause it too. when youre in a state where your consious mind and your subconsious mind are both actively working at the same time when your consious mind should be shutting down. ironically, FP is right about drinking before bed, theres also meds that can be taken all of which is primarily to shut down the consious mind. boring your consious mind to the point of shut down is why i mentioned TV. im glad its working so far!:)

[IrishDancer]

Ah ha! So there was a method to your madness, Rudas ;)

As far as getting drunk, I'll have to talk to my husband about that. "But honey, I have to get sh**faced! Otherwise my soul will leave my body!" ^_^

[Fairy_Princess]

Nothing wrong with you a 1/5th of Sailor Jerry couldn't cure.

Tell your hubby Doctor FP said so!

[IrishDancer]

Haha, will do and I'll get back to you.

[Rudas Starblaze]

Ah ha! So there was a method to your madness, Rudas ;)

As far as getting drunk, I'll have to talk to my husband about that. "But honey, I have to get sh**faced! Otherwise my soul will leave my body!" ^_^

:lol: getting drunk isnt necessary, maybe just one beer or wine cooler or whatever you prefer. just enough to relaxe the consious mind is all one really needs. as for the kind of meds i was talking, they expect ya to take em daily which is a waste and unless ya have medical insurance, gets expensive.

which is why i suggested alternatives before hand.:)

see! im not mad!! maybe sometimes a little weird... just a little... but not mad!;)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Irish Dancer...

For some reason , I cannot access the first page ,
so I do not know if anyone suggested this...

Two very old methods to stop involuntary
astral traveling...

one for upright , moving around...

carry a flat piece of jade , at least half the size
of your palm , in your pocket , or in a sash around waist ;

It does not work , carrying it in a purse at your side...
closer to skin , the better...

one for laying down...

flat river stone , not too heavy , but about the size of
your palm , or larger...placed on the belly , between
sternum and navel...

If you wish , you could write or draw a symbol of
protection , you feel comfortable with , on the river rock ;

Hope this works for you...Old Shamanic Trick...

[IrishDancer]

Shawn, thank you so much for that advice. No one seems to have heard of involuntary astral projection. It makes me feel a lot better to know that it's enough of a problem for some people for there to be old remedies for it.

Was there any folklore or anything attached to why people would do it involuntarily?

And Rudas, I'm going to ask you for advice more often!

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Stone age remedies , my friend Irish Dancer...

Some things relating to the experience...

Personal Power
Kaendealeene Serpent Seperating
Ascension
Old Soul
Giving Up The Will

I can also tell you it has to do with the throat
center...

So I will ask you , and from what I understand ,
your mother...?

Are you speaking your Truth...?

That is enough , for now...

[Fairy_Princess]

Stone age remedies , my friend Irish Dancer...

Some things relating to the experience...

Personal Power
Kaendealeene Serpent Seperating
Ascension
Old Soul
Giving Up The Will

I can also tell you it has to do with the throat
center...

So I will ask you , and from what I understand ,
your mother...?

Are you speaking your Truth...?

That is enough , for now...





WHAT?!

[IrishDancer]

You mean, am I *telling* the truth? Yes.

Or are you asking, like, am I living my truth.

As far as I know, the answer to both is yes. I'm confused. The throat... my mom had thyroid problems? It's inherited, maybe I have it? Um. ... Help, I'm really trying here!

[Rudas Starblaze]

And Rudas, I'm going to ask you for advice more often!

so i take it my suggestions are working rather well then?:)

[IrishDancer]

So far, so good!

[Rudas Starblaze]

:cheers: good deal!:hahugh:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Sorry if there was confusion there Irish Dancer...

I was around for hours , but then went off site...

Of course , when you came back on...

And Fairy Princess ...Calm down...It's all Ok...

Post # 1 Irish Dancer...You said you and your mother
both had this happen...

The throat center , is connected to communication issues ;
I was looking for a connection to why both of you had this
tendency , and wondering if there was a link...

For instance , sometimes with people I personally have
encountered , and worked with , who have involuntary
astral travelling experiences...and it is more common than
what you have found thus far , at least in my experience...

have tended toward not fully being able to express their full
truth to people around them...not feeling they could speak up
and be heard...

now in no way am or was I saying this is or was , your and
your mother's experience...It was a question...and I did not
see she passed , the first time...computer glitch...I am sorry...

It is interesting she had thyroid problems...Do you...?

Any throat blockages , physical , or psychic...?

Any feelings of blocked Will , which is also , though
normally associated with solar plexus center , connected
to the throat...?

You asked for help...and these are things I have found
personally , in my own , and others I have worked with...

So I thought of the possibility...That is all...Sorry I was not
here to immediately answer your question...

But I kept checking my mail for hours , then left...

Murphy's Law...

There are of course , other possibilities...
and the things I listed , as connected to the astral traveling ,
under involuntary conditions , are only a few...

In situations such as these , it takes time , and questions ,
to narrow down the possibilities...

So we do not just treat the symptom...which is what you are
doing now , which is working , with Rudas' advice...

I know you want to get to the root of the problem...

Blessings...And no stress...:)

[IrishDancer]

Thank you for your post, Shawn, that makes a lot more sense. Interesting that you noted communication issues. I, myself, don't have any. I'm a very confident person who will freely confront people that bring infants to movie theatres. However, my mom had terrible communication issues, stemming from an abusive mother, then an abusive husband, and the kind of family that never speaks about anything honest openly.

She raised me to be different than she was. She wanted me to be confident and to always say what I felt. So I didn't have the same problems. *However,* you also mentioned "will" and being heard. A lot of things have happened in my life that caused me to live in a way that I didn't want to live, and to hide. So maybe that has something to do with what you were talking about. At the moment, I feel like nothing's really happening according to my will, apart from having just gotten married. My little bright spot :)

As far as thyroid problems, I'm not sure whether or not I do. It's possible.

If it has to do with will or not saying something, is it that something/someone's trying to get us to leave our bodies in order to teach us something? I don't understand the purpose it serves.

Also, a scary thing I've wondered is if it's happening unwillingly because it's a sort of "death practice run." My mom got sick with cancer in her early 20s, and it happened to her around this time. She was diagnosed at 26, but I knew she was sick when she was as young as 23. She started taking naps a lot, which was very unlike her, and seeing a doctor for bleeding.

All this time, she'd had cancer, and all that time, she was projecting unwillingly and fighting with it.

A few days before she died, when they were saying she could still have weeks, she woke me up out of bed -- although she was miles away at a hospice. She came to my bedside and I immediately, happy to see her, was like, "MAMA!!!!"... then my thought was, "Oh no, she died and she looks freaked out. How do I comfort her?" Then, when I was about to tell her it was all ok, she looked all confused and just said, "No... no, not yet, not yet...." I told her to wait, but she left. She died a few days later. It seemed like it was an astral projection of sorts, since she lived a few days after she appeared to me.

So, if I'm unwillingly astral projecting too, could it be a sort of death practice run? Could I be about to die too?

[Sage Rainsong]

So, if I'm unwillingly astral projecting too, could it be a sort of death practice run? Could I be about to die too?

I have unwillingly astral projected a few times and I am still alive. There are many people who do it over and over again and are still alive so I think that you have nothing to worry about. I'd hate to open emotional wounds but many people use the skill to commune with spirits. Maybe you are subconciously (or consciously) missing your mother and you are trying to see her again on the spiritual plane. Especially considering the fact that you guys may have done it together. maybe you could try pouring your heart out to her and ask her to pray for you. It's worth a try.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well , Sage Rainsong , you beat me to it...

Irish Dancer , NO STRESS...

We can do all sorts of things to ourselves with the power
of the mind , including making ourselves unwell , THEN
not wanting to be in the body...

No one wants you to do that , nor am I saying you have done that ;

What a sensitive soul you are...and this is a good thing...

Yet , such a soul must take care of the body one resides within ,
and tune the mind to thoughts which shall nurture , embrace ,
and heal , thyself , and others...

And in the process , remain GROUNDED...

So , a suggestion , while I frame my best response to you , over
the next 24hrs...

Earth tending...Do you have a garden...? Potted plants ?
Can you do anything which involves getting your hands
in the soil ? Any HARD labor ?

In other words , something which grounds the mind frequency...
Talk to spirit , however you approach it , and ask it to bless the
world around you this day , let the world know how glad you are
to be here , in body , and with your husband...

Build sand castles , if you have to , just touch the earth ...
Plants , flowers , trees , forest , the glory of the gift of
nature...

Enjoy your day , and remember...you are loved , and many I know ,
are glad such a soul as you , is here...:)

[IrishDancer]

I live in an apartment now, Shawn. I don't have a garden, but I've recently become a raw vegan. Because of that, I'd like to have a garden in the future, and am about to move to my husband's parents' briefly, and they live on a farm! I've already asked his father if I can help on the farm. It sounds like a lot of fun! So I'll be doing that as soon as I'm there.

As for now, I live in Arizona, so it's hard to find much to do outdoors. I can spend more time outside, though, in the evenings when it isn't storming. And I'll pray to God.

I feel bad because I don't really have the will to live without my mom currently, and I know that's not the right way to feel. I know it isn't my time yet, so I should be more thankful to be here and be healthy than I am right now. I guess this is normal. I'll pray more.

I look forward to your next response, and thank you for all your kindness. I know it's only a message board, but it means more to me than you know :)

And thank you, Sage, for your response. It's good to know you've experienced the same thing, along with others you know. I'd love to see my mom. I've had visits from a lot of dead relatives, and even some people that have been related to friends of mine. I'm eagerly awaiting a visit from her every single night.

[Fairy_Princess]

I live in an apartment now, Shawn. I don't have a garden, but I've recently become a raw vegan.


That's too bad, because a full english breakfast just before bed was my other cure...

Mmmmm BACON!

[IrishDancer]

God, as much as I'd love that, have to admit that I've become a full fledged sissy now.

[Fairy_Princess]

Your Veganism was medically induced?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Well , Irish Dancer , I kept going over in my head , and heart , how to offer this information to you...

And that is what the information , will be...from both head , and heart perspective...

I will do my best , while taking care of myself , and others , and having some fun ,
to answer all the questions you may have...you are a seeker...this is good...

I will attempt to offer you the best information , I know...others will have theirs...
this also , is good...

In a PM , you asked me how I know the things I know...I do not mind posting that
answer here...Many years of study , listening , and direct initiation , or gnosis ,
as well , oral tradition , passed down...and , a code , which is part of that whole
package...

I do wish you would get your hands in soil , somehow...you will understand ,
perhaps more , why I say this , after I finish this post...I would hope so...

Let me address some things , one at a time...

1. With what you are going through , raw veganism , is not the best...
And I do not care what kind of firestorm that sets off with others here...
Between you , and me , and you have asked for my help , that is one
of the worst things , right now...And that is coming from someone who was
vegetarian , and a raw fooder for years , as well , running a juice plant in
Arizona , many years ago...I lived at a raw foods , naturopathic center , and
do know enough , more than enough , to state this to you...You are over - Yin ,
and you need Yang energy...( Don't know...Look terms up...)...As a native elder
said to me once...You should be carrying around two pockets of rocks , and be
eating buffalo meat...Now , I am not advising this , however...I would definitely
check into a Asian Specialist , not an American , trained in Asian Medicine...
They are familiar with over- Yin conditions , and know more generally , than
their American trained counterparts...

2. Have you gotten any Jade...? I am more than willing to help , but do try what I am suggesting , even if you run it by Rudas , first....Which I support you doing , as well
of course , your husband...It can be normally obtained relatively cheaply , as California Beach Jade , found at a Rock Shop...Which you should have plenty of
in Arizona...

3. Even buying a bag of potting soil , putting it in a dishtub , or bucket , will
help discharge some of the current which is causing some of these experiences...
As well , I recommend getting some sea salt , at your local health food store ,
putting it in spring , or purified water , and washing your hands and feet in it ,
at least once a week , for now...followed of course , by nice skin cream , so as not
to dry out your skin...

4. You might also , look into a purification of the auric shield , by sage...sage and
cedar is fine , normally , but right now , sage would do more to help ...
( again , this deals with what is called the Yin - Yang balance of your energy )

5. We will address your issues surrounding your mother , in a moment...

6. The contact with the dead relatives , and other's relatives , combined with your
stated desire not to be involuntary astral traveling , or having OBE 's is a sign of
Yin imbalance in your energy...Psychism is fine , in those truly prepared , but even
then it puts a strain on the auric , and astral / etheric fields of a person...whether
they realize it , or not...This is well known , in the Shamanic community...

7. Back to your mother...Again , I am sorry for her passing , and I am sure , regarding the age aspects , you brought up , your age now , must create a little stress...It is alright , breathe deeply...And I do mean that...Feeling stressed ? Three deep
breaths , in through the nose , and out through the mouth , only , helps reset the
system , emotionally , and physically...then breathe normally...but healthily...

Now , what you stated , about your desire to be here , in body , is exactly the type of
thing I was sensing , when I made that post , which originally confused you...

I myself , am a Sensitive , or Psychic , ( Just Irish ) , and felt you...When I asked you
if you were speaking your truth...here it is...Third paragraph , of your last major
post...That is honest truth...and a major crux , of your situation...All these other
things , I am offering you , suggesting , including the specialist , are stopgap methods to that blockage in your WILL TO LIVE ...which you , and only you
alone , can claim back...And it sounds , like your husband is your anchor , in the
world right now...Blessings upon him ...May he continue to be the best for you...
However , this is something you must come to terms with...I would suggest , that
you look into a liscenced psychiatrist / psychologist , specializing in grieving
issues...This is not playtime...yet no worry...just do what is necessary...money an
issue...? go to your local church...talk to them...very often they have funds , to help those in the congregation...

This is what I will give for now... We shall talk about symbols , and numbers , and how they apply , and can assist , another time...Blessings...:)

[Fairy_Princess]

1. With what you are going through , raw veganism , is not the best...
And I do not care what kind of firestorm that sets off with others here...


See I told you, omnivores have more control. Eat a full English breakfast before bed and you'll be content!http://www.urbanhonking.com/digest/archives/englishbreakfast.jpg

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Yes , Fairy Princess , this is one of those times , we are in full
agreement...Maybe not bacon , but some organic meat...even
venison...properly prepared... but under doctor's care...

Yet , your question regarding her turning to raw veganism , is justified , and important...Why...?

[Fairy_Princess]

Some people are advised by a physician to take a certain diet and some choose it themselves for non-medical reasons.


It seemed important enough to clarify that point before advising any further dietary aids.

What's wrong with bacon? (All meat is carbon based BTW it comes from animals)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Sorry , Fairy Princess...Another one of Blackwolf's Question / Statements left hanging halfway there...

That why was for Irish Dancer , regarding her choice ( Why ? )

However , thank you for answering...

Probably helped Irish Dancer understand both of us better...

As far as Bacon...Nothing wrong , except most , not all , is pretty fatty ,
and pigs treated with hormones...

Venison , when prepared traditionally , has particular spicing ,
and , as well , is ritually blessed , while preparing , and curing...

Has " magical " healing properties...Great Spirit , or " God "
to them...is imbued within the meat....Holy Food...

[Fairy_Princess]

Venison while exceptionally taste is also prone to Chronis Waisting Disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_Wasting_Disease) in this day and age I am afraid.

In my home we eat a lot of Pork, Chicken and Prawns actually. It;s about 30% Chicken, 30% Pork, 25% Prawns , 10% beef and 5% lamb.

[IrishDancer]

Your Veganism was medically induced?

Well, in a sense. I started looking into how to cure my mom's cancer last year, when I saw that the doctors weren't trying and had no hope for her. I read and read and read, every day for months, searching. I even tracked down scientists, practically stalking them, and lecturers from the University of Arizona medical school and set up appointments to talk to them, begging for some hope.

Early in the year, by chance on a bus, I actually just ran into a guy that worked in a medical lab, researching cancer for the U of A. He heard my story and told me that cancer, specifically colorectal, which I didn't even know my mom had at that point, could *not grow without animal proteins.* I ignored it... until I started doing all this other research and started talking to all the other researchers.

Of course, there are always naysayers, you know, but I've been talking to some pretty unbiased people and getting this from reliable sources. The doctors who told me you should eat meat seemed old and stuck in their ways, laughing me and my worries off, and just said drugs were the way to go. And told me I had no hope and I'd better get used to not having a mom, like it was nothing and just the way the world was.

What struck me about the whole situation was that VETS have more training on nutrition in school than doctors do in medical school. Most doctors don't even get any -- and what we eat now is *preventative medicine.* If you don't eat right, you're going to get sick. And let's say you get cancer. What do they do? They give you chemo. What does chemo do? IT GIVES YOU CANCER. You have to sign all these f-ing forms before they'll agree to give the chemo to you, saying you understand that you'll probably get cancer from the chemo they're giving you!

Basically, once you get cancer, you're supposed to believe and just accept that even if they "cure" you, you're going to get cancer again. It's a death sentence, whether they "cure" you or not. My mom lived for 14 years after they gave her 6 weeks to live and wanted to send her home to die. She got cancer again and died a horrific death, and I don't accept that this is the way it has to be.

So that's my story. In my mind, it was medically induced.

There's also more to what I found out while researching. If you look at herbivorous, carnivorous and omnivorous animals and compare them to us, you'll see that we have the same exact features as herbivores.

[IrishDancer]

Shawn, or do you prefer Blackwolf?, thank you so much for your long response. You mentioned my running things by Rudas. I welcome Rudas to respond and PM me, as I trust him, but you've also earned my trust just by virtue of devoting so much time and energy to helping me. Plus, I have a good feeling about you :)

The latter may be because we have so much in common! Wow, an Irish guy who was in Arizona that was a raw foodist. I don't know what the faery path is, but I'd like to learn more about it, also. My mom, although a strict Christian like me, taught me a lot about old Irish ways and raised me to believe in them undoubtedly.

1.) I'll look into Yin imbalances and what Yin and Yang exactly is. I can see that what you're wanting is to somehow get me more grounded, which is why the rocks and the soil. I'm just hoping there's a way that'll be as effective as eating meat. For my health, I'm quite against eating meat and hoping it doesn't get to that. Also, I now believe that it's the way God intended for us to eat, in the Garden of Eden, so it's also a little religious for me.

2.) There are a lot of rock shops here, so obtaining Jade shouldn't be a problem. Could that be considered a talisman, though? (I can't do that religiously.)

3.) I have sea salt, and I can definitely get some soil.

4.) I've used sage before, to clear rooms, when I was going through a phase for a short time where I was dabbling in the New Age. Would Holy Water be at all effective?

6.) Can you tell me more about how this shows Yin imbalance? I don't mind seeing or talking to dead relatives. I even had one boy come to me that I didn't even know at all, that was molested and murdered in the back room of an office building. I wanted to help, but it turned out that he just wanted someone to listen. And I don't feel drained by such accounts. I like them! I don't even mind not having control over them, I just want control over leaving my own body, you know?

My husband is definitely my anchor. That's the only reason I feel any need to be here at all. I just feel like if I died, it wouldn't be fair for him. I feel like I have too much responsibility here. But I also feel like that isn't the right reason to want to live. They have bereavement counselors that the hospice provides for free. I just haven't taken them up on it because I feel like it'll do no good. How can anyone make you feel better about something that's just bad? There's no getting around it.

But I look forward to learning more from you. I'm very interested. Thank you for this post :)

[Fairy_Princess]

There's also more to what I found out while researching. If you look at herbivorous, carnivorous and omnivorous animals and compare them to us, you'll see that we have the same exact features as herbivores.


Sorry but that is completely and utterly untrue. Apes, Monkies and Pigs are Omniverous and those are the animals we are closest too from a lot of medical and scientific standpoints.

You can eat how you choose, but it is a scientific fact that humans are omniverous.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Soil , Salt Water , Sage focus for now...Remember , I
told you , you could put a symbol of your choosing , on
the river stone...A talisman is a symbol , on an object...

By definition , and please understand , I understand ,
AND respect your path...I was raised Catholic / Christian...

A cross , used to dispel " evil " spirits , is a talisman...

Tomorrow , I can talk to you about Holy Water , and
it's uses , and applications...In this instance...Blessings...

[IrishDancer]

Sorry but that is completely and utterly untrue. Apes, Monkies and Pigs are Omniverous and those are the animals we are closest too from a lot of medical and scientific standpoints.

You can eat how you choose, but it is a scientific fact that humans are omniverous.

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/

I have a few books about it, and scientifically it makes the most sense. To me, anyway. Yes, it is said that we are closest to those animals, but I guess our teeth, saliva and intestinal tracts aren't. I'm not sure, I haven't looked into those things on the animals you mentioned. All I know is that those animals sure are smart :)

[Fairy_Princess]

That site is biased and compares Humans to carnivores NOT Omnivores to make it's points. We omnivore teeth not Herbivore teeth there is NO room for argument there.

We're omnivores, I never tried to claim we're carnivores. Real science books show this not Vegan Propoganda.

[IrishDancer]

After all my reading, I've found that it seems we're herbivores, not omnivores. And that site actually does touch on herbivores vs. omnivores: "But aren’t humans anatomically suited to be omnivores?

Nope. We don’t anatomically match up with omnivorous animals anymore than we do with carnivorous ones. Omnivores are more similar to carnivores than they are to herbivores. For a more detailed summary table that compares the properties of carnivores, herbivores, and omnivores side by side, see this page:"

But I see that link doesn't work anymore. So:

Facial Muscles
CARNIVORE: Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
HERBIVORE: Well-developed
OMNIVORE: Reduced
HUMAN: Well-developed

Jaw Type
CARNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HERBIVORE: Expanded angle
OMNIVORE: Angle not expanded
HUMAN: Expanded angle

Jaw Joint Location
CARNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HERBIVORE: Above the plane of the molars
OMNIVORE: On same plane as molar teeth
HUMAN: Above the plane of the molars

Jaw Motion
CARNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
HERBIVORE: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back
OMNIVORE: Shearing; minimal side-to-side
HUMAN: No shear; good side-to-side, front-to-back

Major Jaw Muscles
CARNIVORE: Temporalis
HERBIVORE: Masseter and pterygoids
OMNIVORE: Temporalis
HUMAN: Masseter and pterygoids

Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
CARNIVORE: Large
HERBIVORE: Small
OMNIVORE: Large
HUMAN: Small

Teeth: Incisors
CARNIVORE: Short and pointed
HERBIVORE: Broad, flattened and spade shaped
OMNIVORE: Short and pointed
HUMAN: Broad, flattened and spade shaped

Teeth: Canines
CARNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HERBIVORE: Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
OMNIVORE: Long, sharp and curved
HUMAN: Short and blunted

Teeth: Molars
CARNIVORE: Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
HERBIVORE: Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
OMNIVORE: Sharp blades and/or flattened
HUMAN: Flattened with nodular cusps

Chewing
CARNIVORE: None; swallows food whole
HERBIVORE: Extensive chewing necessary
OMNIVORE: Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
HUMAN: Extensive chewing necessary

Saliva
CARNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HERBIVORE: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
OMNIVORE: No digestive enzymes
HUMAN: Carbohydrate digesting enzymes

Stomach Type
CARNIVORE: Simple
HERBIVORE: Simple or multiple chambers
OMNIVORE: Simple
HUMAN: Simple

Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach

Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract

Length of Small Intestine
CARNIVORE: 3 to 6 times body length
HERBIVORE: 10 to more than 12 times body length
OMNIVORE: 4 to 6 times body length
HUMAN: 10 to 11 times body length

Colon
CARNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HERBIVORE: Long, complex; may be sacculated
OMNIVORE: Simple, short and smooth
HUMAN: Long, sacculated

Liver
CARNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HERBIVORE: Cannot detoxify vitamin A
OMNIVORE: Can detoxify vitamin A
HUMAN: Cannot detoxify vitamin A

Kidney
CARNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HERBIVORE: Moderately concentrated urine
OMNIVORE: Extremely concentrated urine
HUMAN: Moderately concentrated urine

Nails
CARNIVORE: Sharp claws
HERBIVORE: Flattened nails or blunt hooves
OMNIVORE: Sharp claws
HUMAN: Flattened nails

Also, as far as apes most closely resembling us, I'll take from this letter from someone:

"In using comparative anatomy to determine what man was "meant" to eat, we should look at the species most similar to man, namely the anthropoid apes--chimpanzees, gibbons, gorillas, and orangutans. Of all animals, man's digestive organs and teeth most closely resemble these apes. In captivity, some of these animals will eat meat if forced to rather than starve to death. But in the wild, all eat a vegetarian diet.

Another strong clue that man is naturally a vegetarian is the fact that vegetarians in general are much healthier than omnivores. The American Dietetic Association has acknowledged that vegetarians are less at risk for a number of chronic diseases, including heart disease, some types of cancer, obesity, high blood pressure, and adult-onset diabetes."

All of this makes the most sense to me, so this is what I believe (although I also know that apes very occasionally kill each other and eat their babies, I choose to refrain from that sort of thing). You believe what makes the most sense to you, and that's fine. I love bacon, and I don't blame you if you don't want to give it up. I cheat occasionally myself :) So no need to be antagonistic, no one's telling you to stop eating meat. I'm not throwing red paint on your fur coat, I was just answering a question.

Let's get back on topic.

[Fairy_Princess]

Sorry but apes in the wild eat anything, not just plants. They are NOT herbivores and neither are humans. The chimpanzee society is marked by violence: war, incest, murder, cannibalism. So much for "peaceful vegan" chimps! (A more accurate description would be "occasionally violent, omnivore chimps.")


But mountain gorillas are vegans! :

No, Not really; they have been observed deliberately eating driver ants, and they also consume considerable insects on the leaves that are the major part of their diet. Given that many vegans reject honey, avoid foods colored with cochineal (a dye made of ground insects), and get all grossed-out by descriptions of humans consuming insects (common in many hunter-gatherer societies), it is reasonable to say that an ape that deliberately eats ants is not a vegan, even if ants are a small part of their diet.


First, as mentioned above, the idea that apes (or primates in general) are strict vegetarians in the normal human sense of the word is a misconception of the past. This point is clarified in Sussman [1987, pp. 166, 168]:

In fact, most species of primate are omnivorous (see Harding [1981]) and omnivory should be considered an evolutionarily conservative and generalized trait among primates. Primates evolved from insectivores....

Thus, omnivorous primates are mainly frugivorous and, depending upon body size, obtain most of their protein from insects and leaves. In all large, omnivorous, nonhuman primates, animal protein is a very small but presumably necessary component of the diet.

In the above, the term omnivore has the usual definition; e.g., from Milton [1987, p. 93]: "By definition, an omnivore is any animal that takes food from more than one trophic level. Most mammals are in fact omnivorous...". ["Trophic" refers to the different levels of the food chain.] Note that some experts use a different, more precise definition for the term omnivore, and disagree that mammals are omnivores--instead they suggest using the term faunivore for animals that regularly include fauna (other animals) in their diet.

I hate to tell you this sugar but a human with a properly BALANCED diet, not just an omniverous junk food diet, is MUCH healthier and happier than ANY vegan EVER!

[IrishDancer]

I'll definitely look into omnivorous health more.

[mucgwyrt]

Hia,

I used to have a very similar thing happen to me - I still do on occasion, but not so often now. I have CFS, and that makes me very sensitive to energy and disrupts my sleep, allowing me to be able to perch on that knife-blade of awareness between sleep and wakefulness which is so condusive to successful astral travel.

Ironically, I think all the stressing and all the energy you put into attempting to keep yourself lucid - all the "I dont want to travel tonight!" - is probably aiding your tendancy to astral-travel. It's keeping you on that knife-edge, and stopping yourself from falling past the knife-edge and into a deeper sleep.

Something to think about, anyway :)

[latin_baller]

i read a book about astral projecting that had a supposed true story that a woman died because she couldnt come back to her body.

[gurlygurl2004]

The only way I know I had an astral projection is that I will feel like I fell and get a jerky sensation in my body, usually when I sleep. THe only thing I can remember is falling from a tall building in the process.

[IrishDancer]

mucgwyrt, you're probably right. I'm probably thinking about it so much that it's keeping me partially awake! CFS = Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Wouldn't that make you sleep deeply? In any case, I think it was Rudas who earlier explained that being very sleepy and fatigued can sometimes aid in astral traveling. So that's interesting to note.

latin_baller: How did they claim to have known in order to write about it?

gurlygurl2004: I know dreams about falling are quite common, and can make your body jerk. Another thing that can make your body jerk is that when you start falling into a pretty deep sleep quickly, your heart rate drops rapidly and makes your brain think the body's dying. So the brain sends a signal to the body telling it to jerk, and that's why when you're extra tired, sometimes your whole body'll jerk when you're falling asleep, or a leg'll twitch or something. It may be astral travel, but I'd think you'd remember since astral travel puts you in a lucid state. And I mean ultra lucid -- more lucid and clear minded than you are awake!

[Lajmar]

I find this interesting because I use to unconsciously project. It became such a problem that I actually placed wards around my bed to keep me "in" rather than keeping other things out.

[mucgwyrt]

mucgwyrt, you're probably right. I'm probably thinking about it so much that it's keeping me partially awake! CFS = Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Wouldn't that make you sleep deeply? In any case, I think it was Rudas who earlier explained that being very sleepy and fatigued can sometimes aid in astral traveling. So that's interesting to note.


Yes, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. You'd think, wouldn't you?! No, I sleep very badly, and the slightest noise wakes me - I think this is quite common, as I understand doctors often prescribe sleeping tablets to people with CFS. I have often wondered if this is because I am so tired all the time that I'm used to struggling to keep myself awake, and this continues through sleep.

[Morgaine_cla]

Greetings,

I can't pretend to have all the answers, but the first thing I would say to you is this:

Banish (cleanse & clear)
Ground
Shield

Being 'pulled out' of your body is not a good thing no matter who or what might be doing it. It is possible for something else to get in and once it's in, it will not be easy to evict it. For one thing, while there are loads of people willing to jump in and take action, there are few people who have any real training in how to do that safely and ethically. So my first advice to you would be:

Clear and cleanse your own aura from the centre out (I call this banishing, because the intent is to clear unwanted energies)

Ground your energy (meaning root your energy deeply in the earth)

Shield yourself (create an energetic barrier to other beings or entities getting in)

I would suggest doing this in the morning as part of your shower routine, and again just before going to sleep. You can use whatever methods work best for you. You are right to be concerned. It is vital that what we do we do by our own free will and not because someone or something else is forcing us. In most cases, the above procedure will stop the problem.

However, if this keeps happening after you are established in your Banish-Ground-Shield routine then (assuming you have done your work properly) the problem is likely not originating from outside of you. In that case I would suggest asking yourself whether you like being in your body.

I know that sounds silly, but I have known quite a few people who actually disliked or feared being in their bodies and spent most of their time finding ways to 'get out'. Whatever the reason, you will need to find it out and deal with it before the problem will stop.

That'sabout the limit of my advice. I hope it is helpful to you and wish you the best in resolving this issue!

[Lady_Door]

I eventually began wearing an amulet to bed. I would project and go to the exact same spot every time. Eventually I had unwanted attention drawn to that area and had some really unpleasant things happen.
I would ask in prayer that you want to be the one that decides when you project.

[IrishDancer]

Just a little update, months later.

I'm doing better regarding my mom's death. I'm in therapy (for her death, not the crazy crap I'm about to talk about, I swear! I'm sane!), group therapy and even started going to AA occasionally because I realized I was drinking to cope with my problems. I feel like my life's getting back on track.

Since this thread, my astral projection problem's gotten a LOT better. I mean, with the exception of a few incidents. It happens occasionally, but it also seems easier to make it stop. I don't fight with it ALL NIGHT when it happens now. I've noticed that not feeling fear and being calm about it has really helped. Then, once I can move again, I stay awake for a few minutes before trying to go back to sleep. I've even calmly allowed my astral-body to hover mostly-inside-but-a-teeny-bit-outside over my physical-body and just calmly stated that it wasn't my will and that seemed to work better. I mean, maybe it's just not as stressful because I'm not fighting it. It can still take a while, but definitely a lot better.

I don't know if my emotions are directly causing it, but I do think they affect it. My personal belief is that something is making me do this against my will, not God, and that it has an easier time preying on me during horrible times in my life.

You all are going to think I'm insane, but I have been possessed before. I was exorcised by Bob Larson. My mom and I went to see him as a form of entertainment, to be honest. We were giggling beforehand and expecting to see some awesome and kind of funny stuff. And it was definitely funny... for about two seconds until I was reacting like some people in the audience and getting really angry and sobbing uncontrollably. Next thing I know, people come over to me, I black out but hear someone screaming, realize *I'm* the one screaming and saying weird stuff, then I wake up being helped up off the floor. What on earth?! Yeah, definitely interesting. I had a splitting headache for days. Why? Holy oil and a Bible were on my head. Seriously, it was like a movie.

He said after it happened, people would walk out with different lives. I did. I ditched all my bad friends and started talking to my now-husband. It changed my whole life immediately.

I believe that since I was little, bad spirits have been trying to get me. I used to see "angels" when I was very tiny that would scare me, they were bad angels. I feel like it's a constant battle, like some battle I'm not seeing, but only see the effects of occasionally. I think trying to get me to astral project is a part of this.

On Coast to Coast am, back when it was hosted by Art Bell, a priest was often on, who ended up being killed or something later. He cautioned against astral projection, saying it was a way for demons to possess you. Now I wonder. It really made sense to me, from my experience. Although I don't believe I was possessed because of the OBEs, I think I brought it on by making bad decisions, being really depressed and hanging out with bad people.

Also, just to make you all question my sanity even further, I'd like to tell you that I was recently awoken with sleep paralysis, you know, usual deal. I was like, "Oh great, going to try to stay in my body now," waiting for it to start happening. But no. Instead, a bright light and aliens standing around me. I literally LAUGHED. I cracked up. In my head, I said, "You have got to be kidding me. You really expect me to believe that I'm being abducted by aliens?"

Now, this was a strange reaction because I watch UFO stories on TV and become terrified. TERRIFIED! My dad used to tell me he got abducted by aliens (he was just a coke head, in reality), and he'd scare the crap out of me with his stories when I was a toddler. I am SCARED of aliens! And I don't even know if they're real! But in this case, it was laughable to me. It was clear they were demons that wanted me to think they were aliens, and it was hilarious. Like, "What a stupid trick."

So anyway, I started praying and telling them to leave in Jesus' name, etc etc. They started backing away and then bam, gone.

Yeah, SO. I know, I know, I'm insane. Actually, I assure you that I'm a normal 22-year-old girl! I'm not a hippie or extremist or anything! But it really happened. And further, I didn't "wake up" from it. I was awake when it ended and couldn't go back to sleep.

So anyway, that solidified that something was trying to do something to me. Since that, it's gotten a lot better too.

Also, I don't think leaving my body has to do with my having had no real desire to be in my body or on earth. I actually have TRIED to die that way, during a suicidal period. No dice. In fact, I couldn't astral project at all when I tried to do that. Quite frustrating. And when I started later and thought, "I just won't go back to my body," suddenly I was just floating in my body and couldn't get beyond it. So it seems that lack of desire to live actually does the opposite.

[LadySnake]

You are lucky. I've been trying for near 10 years to astral project and still haven't succeeded. The closest I've come is astral paralisys, where I am half in and out of my body, and have absolute no control of anything.

[LadySnake]

And, I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine losing a parent. My condolences......

[IrishDancer]

Lady Snake, thank you for your kind words. My mom was my best friend and sister, basically, and missing her is a pain like I've never known -- BUT! I know she'll be the first person to greet me after I'm gone. I'm pretty excited to see her again. I might even get a visit with her before I die <fingers crossed>

As far as astral projection, I think as soon as you decide to do it and you *do* do it, you'll have control over it. I think when I did it my first time it unlocked something, and then I just couldn't stop it. It's like instinctive or intuitive to your body/soul. It's very natural.

The way I did it the first time was I looked it up. Also, I was VERY excited, so there was no fear, and I think that helped a lot. I was just dumb and curious. I think I pumped myself up. I wasn't sure if other people would see the way I was dressed or if my hair could get in my face, so I got into my cutest, comfiest pajamas and braided my hair. I think that helped because I felt "suited up" and ready. I think it's just all very mental.

What I read online was very simple. First, you wear very comfortable clothes, and make sure the temperature isn't too cold or too warm. Then, when you go to sleep, do so with your arm held up. You rest your elbow against the bed, but you keep your arm up. This way, every time you start to fall asleep, your arm will fall. You focus on what you want to do, but you let thoughts float in and out of your mind. If your mind wanders, gently push the thoughts out and bring your focus back, like your thoughts are floating on water. Then, I think it said to imagine a vertical line over your body, imagine it at the ceiling, then imagine floating up towards it. Anyway, at some point during all of this, you'll vibrate, and that's good. And then, your "eyes" will open.

Weirdest thing was that my first time, I realized my eyes were open and I was looking at the ceiling and could look around the room. And I thought, "crap, I ruined the whole thing, I'm going to have to start over." I tried closing my eyes several times before I realized they WERE closed and I was just squinting them down harder. I could SEE through my eyelids! Then I was just like, "I want to astral project" and stating it made it happen, just like if you're out and you say "I want to be back in my body" or "I want to go home" you'll just whiz right back in.

Also, at some point, when you realize your body's vibrating and your mind's very alert and you feel it beginning, you can gently put your arm down. Often my mom and I would keep ours up, but you don't have to. It's just very easy to basically meditate, relax yourself and fall asleep when you do this.

I'm not sure if any of that helps, but that's how I did it, and it worked the very first time and I never had problems ever again. But that could also be because I was 13 and didn't know anyone had a hard time with it. I just thought most people didn't know about it. I think the mentality of "This'll be easy and exciting and I'm all dressed and ready" is the most important thing. Any bit of urgency or fear won't allow you to do it.