Adversity

[Eleisawolf]

So, we all have tough knocks in life. Many religions look at those down moments as atonments for sin; others look at them as gifts from the gods that make us measly humans stronger.

As Pantheists, what are the ways we view adversity? How do you look at the troubles in your life? Do you ascribe meaning to them? Do you gain something by them, even in loss? Do you always try to find the silver lining? Even if there's no meaning or silver lining inherent in them? I've heard some of you say that Pantheism helps you get past adversity more easily, because you don't feel the need to say it's a lesson or a "blessing in disguise," as it doesn't come on you with a purpose. But do you sometimes feel that nagging pull that your troubles are making something in your life clearer or more meaningful?

I recently had some dental work that is driving me crazy. It's a long, involved process and is draining my already down-the-drain finances far too much. I'm in pain. Quite literally. And with that, the money woes, the job woes, the depression that attempts to claim me every day, I've been in what would be a rough spot in my life.

Through most of my life, I have looked at rough spots like this as the strength builders, the "character" that Dad talked about so much. When I am in pain, I might complain loudly, but I bear it and look through to the other side, where I will have gotten something for that struggle--whether it's stronger teeth or a deeper understanding of what real pain is, allowing my compassion for those who suffer more than I to grow. When I was a Catholic kid, it was punishment for having done something bad. But now it's grown into a perception that what doesn't kill me makes me stronger, more compassionate, more easily able to understand life.

My personal Pantheist Pagan underpinnings say that the universe exists in all its infinite variety because of a serious desire to learn what existence is. Every experience the universe has makes it larger, more complete. It, like us, somehow learns and becomes new with each new experience. Does the death of a star mean as much as the birth of one? To my mind, yes, in that as much can be learned from adversity as from joy.

How do you look at adversity, and how is that informed by or how does it inform your Pantheist beliefs?

Peace

[Silverfangs]

I always tend to look at adversities as quests to be overcomed. With any intent or not behind them, I always look as something to be conquered and to learn from. If it is from the Cosmos or any minor deity or spirit I do not know. Maybe it is just Life itself that generates, in its frenzy, all the random problems that appear in our lives.

[Kylie]

I'm in the "it makes us stronger" boat. I guess I believe that everything happens for a reason, but even if there is no reason, it still happened, and if it sucks, why dwell on it? I just try to learn from all experiences, good or bad, and move forward.

[Windsmith]

I think that crap just happens. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to most of it. But if there are lessons I can draw from what happens to me, if there are ways that enduring and (hopefully) overcoming adversity can make me stronger, wiser, more patient, or in other ways more fun to be around and more attuned with the world and myself in it, then let me at that lesson!

Still, it's nice not to have to learn something. Sometimes I don't want to learn. Because there are some things in our lives that are so sucky that simply surviving them is plenty to celebrate, without demanding that we learn something from it. Five years ago, my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given two years to live. The fact that he's still not only living but thriving is so amazing; to demand that he learn something from all this suffering and uncertainty would be in the poorest possible taste.

Then, too, there are other things that happen that just seem so pointless that you think, what could I have learned? What lesson, for instance, was there for me to learn from having to miss my grandfather's funeral because I developed the worst migraine of my life that morning? "Don't get migraines"? Not really a lesson I can implement. Sometimes the only thing you get out of adversity is adversity.

As for the Cosmos...there may be some sort of sentience to it, but if there is, I think it's of a completely different kind than we humans can possibly fathom. So I have a hard time saying that the Cosmos learns from its experienes the same way we do - heck, I even have a hard time saying that the Cosmos has experiences the same way we do.

[peggyelizabeth]

As for the Cosmos...there may be some sort of sentience to it, but if there is, I think it's of a completely different kind than we humans can possibly fathom. So I have a hard time saying that the Cosmos learns from its experienes the same way we do - heck, I even have a hard time saying that the Cosmos has experiences the same way we do.

I'd like to think that there is some kind of sentience, but I agree, I don't think it's unfathomable by humans. Maybe the cosmos is sending shit in my direction for a reason, but I also acknowledge that in all likelihood, it's a cause & effect relationship. It may be raining down badness here, but it must be raining down good some place else. It's a constant balancing act.

I'm just starting to wonder when the shift happens and I get some more good!

[Windsmith]

And knowing that, knowing that I was experiencing something so universal, made me feel a real kinship with all of humanity, back through the ages and forward as well. And I appreciated being able to experience that and to be aware of it.Someday, when I have more time, I will tell you exactly how much these words have been a revelation and a gift to me. Until then...:hugz: Thank you.

[Diotima]

<P>Sometimes bad stuff happens. Life is not fair, but it is a miracle neverthless. I say again: life is not fair. But, as far as I know, Universe does not make deals with people, promising a money back guarantee if life treats us unfairly. This is not a punishment, it is simply how things are. </P>
<P>&nbsp;However, as a virtue ethicist I believe that everything that happens to us is an opportunity. One may not see it, one may ignore it or even misuse it- but the opportunity still exists. I wouldn't call this a silver lining though- I know from experience that pure, solid evil crap exists. The fact that with hard work and skill, one can make good come out of evil, does not make the evil any less.&nbsp;</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>
<P>I don't, however, think that the "lessons" we can learn from these opportunities are always big tasks. For example, if one is already brave, a dangerous situation may not teach her a lesson on how to be brave, just strenghten the virtue she already possesses.</P>
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't think either, that a given experience (say, giving birth or recovering from cancer) teaches -or should teach- the same lesson to everyone who has gone through it. We are different people, therefore though common experiences may unite us, they may also teach different people different lessons.</P>

[airmist]

Thank you for the thread. It has been really nice to read everyone's thoughtful posts. I am comfortable with just accepting what happens. Sometimes it's nice, sometimes it hurts. It is not good or bad. I do not think it happens for a reason. But as some of you have said so well here, there is a growth that can occur from the pain or the challenge.

For me, assigning reasons or explanations are simple rationalizations trying to alleviate the pain or justifying the pleasure. I do better with simple acceptance. And acceptance for me is not the same as "liking" what happens or finding it "ok". It is not a judgment but simply an acknowledgment of what is.

[Windsmith]

I went into a sort of rage the other night when a woman on TV speaking about the collapsed bridge said "This shouldn't happen in America."

Why?

Should the laws of the universe alter at our borders? Should we not be subject to the realities of life on earth? Just what power of our own, or from "above" should prevent such tragedies? Would it have been OK if it happened in some other country?

I know she was speaking out of emotion, frustration, pain and helplessness, but I got so angry, because that is an underlying belief of so many people so much of the time...life...it's that thing that happens to OTHER people, but not ME.It's even worse here, cheddar, where the local news crews and talking heads are saying, "This shouldn't happen in Minnesota." How does that even make sense?!?

Human creations fail. Infrastructure is fallible. People die. It happens everywhere.

I am touched by the people who were near the bridge but not on it, and the people who live nearby, who did what they could to help people in those minutes after the collapse but before the First Responders arrived, sometimes putting their own safety at risk to do so. I am touched by the people across the country who know I live in Minneapolis and called or emailed to make sure my wife and I were OK. I am touched by the way so many of my local friends mobilized to create phone and email trees to reach out and make sure everyone was accounted for. And in the days that have followed, I am touched by the way people in the city are carpooling and taking public transportation and doing whatever they can to stay out of the way of the recovery operation.

This is some heavy-duty adversity, here. And what I am choosing to learn from it is that there is still some good in people and that, when times get rough, we can move beyond fear and do what we need to do to not just survive, but thrive, and to help each other thrive, as well.

[Eleisawolf]

I agree with you, ultimately, that death is a natural part of life and that, yes, unhappy events do occur in this country regardless of our technological or supposed cultural "superiority." Arrogance is one of the most frustrating aspects of nationalistic pride.

However, I do have a problem with the unsaid part of what you seem to be expressing, even though I'm sure you didn't mean to leave it out. So, I will say it. You see, as pervasive as reality is, it's no excuse for complacency in those things that we can prevent. I apologize for being nitpicky, but while I do agree with the point you're trying to make, I do feel that this part must nevertheless be said out loud.

The reason this "shouldn't have happened in America" is not because we are theologically or culturally or intellectually immune, but simply because we have enough money, materials, and humanpower to fix this nation's infrastructure problems--but we're not fixing them, and we haven't been. That's what I got from the comment. We shouldn't have let it happen, and we could've prevented it if only by using our resources to fix the darn bridge instead of letting it deteriorate to the point of collapse.

Fact is, we've simply been ignoring infrastructure in this country, from the levees in New Orleans to national highways and bridges. So infrastructure maintenance is, like education and other similar needs in the country, pitifully underfunded. I'll leave the speculation about what that money is otherwise being spent on, federally or individually, to each person's own pondering.

Yes, there are some natural laws that we cannot fully overcome no matter who we are--sorry, no dice. One is gravity. Another is death. But the fact is we could have put both off in this situation if we had paid attention to what needed to be done. And natural law--and a belief in Pantheism--is no excuse for not repairing the bridge to prevent this accident from taking those nine lives in the way that it did. So no, this shouldn't have happened in this country. It shouldn't happen anywhere that people have the ability to repair a bridge. Again, yes, I agree, the reporter said it badly. But the point is taken.


I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something; and because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do something that I can do. ~Helen Keller

Peace

ETA: To reconnect with the thread topic, this is a case where adversity definitely gives a lesson, should we choose to take it. This is an adversity we brought on ourselves and can prevent in future.

[Windsmith]

The reason this "shouldn't have happened in America" is not because we are theologically or culturally or intellectually immune, but simply because we have enough money, materials, and humanpower to fix this nation's infrastructure problems--but we're not fixing them, and we haven't been. That's what I got from the comment. We shouldn't have let it happen, and we could've prevented it if only by using our resources to fix the darn bridge instead of letting it deteriorate to the point of collapse.

Fact is, we've simply been ignoring infrastructure in this country, from the levees in New Orleans to national highways and bridges. So infrastructure maintenance is, like education and other similar needs in the country, pitifully underfunded. I'll leave the speculation about what that money is otherwise being spent on, federally or individually, to each person's own pondering.

Yes, there are some natural laws that we cannot fully overcome no matter who we are--sorry, no dice. One is gravity. Another is death. But the fact is we could have put both off in this situation if we had paid attention to what needed to be done. And natural law--and a belief in Pantheism--is no excuse for not repairing the bridge to prevent this accident from taking those nine lives in the way that it did. So no, this shouldn't have happened in this country. It shouldn't happen anywhere that people have the ability to repair a bridge. Again, yes, I agree, the reporter said it badly. But the point is taken.

Peace

ETA: To reconnect with the thread topic, this is a case where adversity definitely gives a lesson, should we choose to take it. This is an adversity we brought on ourselves and can prevent in future.I don't want to get this thread too much further off-topic, but I feel a need to address this. Because I understand your point, Eleisawolf; I hear where you're coming from, and part of me agrees. But a big part disagrees, too.

Yes, the U.S. government has been neglecting the infrastructure. Yes, the American people have, too, insofar as I bet there are people who don't even realize that our roads, our sewer system, our electric grid, are all part of this thing called an "infrastructure;" that it doesn't just exist as if by magic. But blaming this tragedy on the complacency of the people is disingenuous at best. Perhaps we were naive to believe the Department of Transportation when it told us that the bridge had been inspected, and that it was safe. I'm not trying to be nitpicky, either, I suppose, but your use of the "we" in your post - we are ignoring infrastructure; we could've prevented it. In my opinion, the only thing "we" could've done differently was to distrust our government. Not a bad idea, all things considered, but not a policy I'm eager to endorse.

I agree with Ms. Keller that I can do something - and most of all, I can choose my battles. One thing I've learned from the adversity in my life is not to bang my head against brick walls. This isn't about apathy or complacency; it's about the fact that my resources are limited and, frankly, I choose to expend them elsewhere. Does this mean that I deserve whatever infrastructure failures I get? Possibly. Could I be better educated about the roads and bridges I drive on everyday? Certainly. But I can't crusade for every single cause that needs crusading for. I have to make choices.

I am one person. I can do many things. But I could not have prevented that bridge collapse, and that is reality as I see it.

[Windsmith]

Arrrrrgh. I'm not sure if this is the thread to wake up, but I'm having adversity here, and I need a place to vent.

I'm job-hunting. I have a job, but it's not in my field, and recent changes in my company make it less stable every day. I'm trying to get into something that matches what I want careerwise in the long-term. Last week I had my 2nd interview for a job I really wanted. I walked feeling pretty good, feeling like I'd done the best I could. I sent my thank-you notes, and then all I could do was wait.

I didn't get the call. I didn't get the job.

I'm no stranger to disappointment on the job front. I thought I was prepared for the possiblity that it wouldn't come through. But yesterday I was inconsolable. I cried all the way home; I cried through the afternoon and evening.

And during all that crying, I kept having these moments where I wildly wished I believed in God or gods, in fate and predestination. I wished I believed that All That Is had a plan for me, a destiny to follow. I wished I could say that Someone or Something was guiding my life, and that I hadn't gotten the job because I wasn't meant to, that something else better and more fitting would come along at any moment. If I could believe that, I could believe that I hadn't lost the job because I'd done something wrong - or worse, that, as my wife put it, I did everything right, but someone else did everything a little bit righter.

It's still hard today, but it's getting better. I'm remembering that my life's only purpose is the one I give it, and that's making me twice as determined to go out there and give it a damned good one.

Sometimes it just sucks to be responsible for your own life, you know?

[RavenStars]

I've often wondered if I really would feel better if I had a fate mapped out for me. I doubt it. Too stuborn, too independent. I'd be suffering fighting it. It seems easier to live in the moment (not that I'm very good at it). Dinner time.

[cheddarsox]

Windsmith, I'm sorry. I know how much that hurts. I find job hunting to be one of life's most trying challenges, that "selling" of self. Dealing with "no's" is so hard, it all feels so personal, it plays on all our hopes, wishes, dreams and insecurities.

Sometimes I also feel like I wish I could believe in "something" that I could hand my life over to, because I feel like I need a break.

The Universe IS that something, and I don't have to hand my life over, it already is fully embraced. That can be the scary part. sometimes I look at my life and think "THIS is IT?!", but at the same time, I usually find comfort in the fact that even when I feel completely out of hope and resources, things keep chugging along...it is a source of terror and comfort all at the same time (paradox, paradox, the Divine paradox).

All the same things that didn't land me that house, job, friend, opportunity today...are the same things that will get it for me tomorrow. So, it's OK to feel and express my anger, disappointment, fear, frustration, and tomorrow it will be just as appropriate to cheer, dance, celebrate and strut.
I can't go as far as saying "it's all good"...but I do often tell myself "it's all real"

I often place reminders for myself around my life, notes, or symbols that keep me aware of what's what, and help me "see" beyond the surface.

I've been having some issues dealing with an old addiction...so I've put a note "FINL" on the part of the machine I'm assigned to at work. It means "Food is not love", so when I reach for something to stuff my loneliness, I get a reality check.

One I often use is "this, and this, and this too...is Life", to keep myself from retreating. Reacting, is NOT retreating. Denial scares me more than emotion and venting. Resorting to anesthetizers scares me more than turning to friends for support.

My point ( I think I have one) is that I suspect that wanting that big someone up there who has a plan for us...is a sort of denial of reality. A way to excuse ourselves from having to feel the true depths and heights of feeling (because overwhelming joy is also terrifying), because we numb it all down by saying "Its in BLANK's hands", "it's part of BLANK's mysterious ways" etc. Instead of "this hurts like sh*t" or "I am so proud of myself"

Life IS...scary, wonderful, tiring, invigorating...all those things in turn, and sometimes all those things at the same time.

Thanks for sharing what is going on with you! Of course I find myself thinking..."huh? Who WOULDN'T want Windsmith for a job?" and the answer I get...is someone who might be scared. YUP. sometimes people don't get jobs because the job isn't big enough for them, or the supervisor isn't big enough, can't handle a great employee. It's the truth. For some supervisors...great employees are threatening.

Keep us posted!

Love and "aw nuts!',

cheddar

[Windsmith]

I've often wondered if I really would feel better if I had a fate mapped out for me. I doubt it. Too stuborn, too independent. I'd be suffering fighting it. It seems easier to live in the moment (not that I'm very good at it). Dinner time.::sigh:: Yeah, me too, if I'm honest. I'd be that chick in the corner saying, "This is my fate? This fate sucks. I'm going to be over here doing something better."


Windsmith, I'm sorry. I know how much that hurts. I find job hunting to be one of life's most trying challenges, that "selling" of self.I hate looking at it as selling myself. I prefer to think of a job as mutually beneficial parasitism. I remind myself that the process isn't just about getting myself a job: it's about getting the right person for the organization into the job. I just wish that person could've been me, darn it all.


All the same things that didn't land me that house, job, friend, opportunity today...are the same things that will get it for me tomorrow. So, it's OK to feel and express my anger, disappointment, fear, frustration, and tomorrow it will be just as appropriate to cheer, dance, celebrate and strut.Thanks - and keep reminding me of that, would you? It's hard to convince myself that it's OK to lose it when things go badly. Last night I went off the handle, and I feel the need to get that under control, but I tend to have one little cry and then go back to "stoic-face," and that does me no good.


I do often tell myself "it's all real"I need to put that directly over my computer at work.


My point ( I think I have one) is that I suspect that wanting that big someone up there who has a plan for us...is a sort of denial of reality. A way to excuse ourselves from having to feel the true depths and heights of feeling (because overwhelming joy is also terrifying), because we numb it all down by saying "Its in BLANK's hands", "it's part of BLANK's mysterious ways" etc. Instead of "this hurts like sh*t" or "I am so proud of myself"I hadn't thought of it that way. I've seen "It's in BLANK's hands" as a way of avoiding responsibility for our lives. "I don't have to do anything about homelessness or my asshole neighbor who beats his wife or the fact that I'm 50 pounds overweight, because BLANK is taking care of it. It's part of BLANK's ineffible plan, and it's not up to me to do anything about it." I hadn't considered the other side of that coin, that it disconnects us from fully experiencing what does happen to us. That gods can be a solace but also an anaesthetic.


Thanks for sharing what is going on with you! Of course I find myself thinking..."huh? Who WOULDN'T want Windsmith for a job?" and the answer I get...is someone who might be scared. YUP. sometimes people don't get jobs because the job isn't big enough for them, or the supervisor isn't big enough, can't handle a great employee. It's the truth. For some supervisors...great employees are threatening.You. are. the. BEST! You always say exactly what's needed to make me view the world in a whole new way and feel better about everything.

Of course that's not the whole story. I have deficiencies as an interviewee that I need to work on. And I suspect, with this job, that there was an experience level I just barely scraped - and probably another candidate cleared the bar more fully.

The other weird thing is that in the several interviews I've had of late, I've been asked one question that has me reconsidering my entire career game-plan (again). See, I went to school to become a windsmith mainly to get a more solid technical understanding of wind energy systems, but my career aspiration was to get an clerical or communications job with a non-profit that works with wind and other forms of renewable energy. I never planned to work as an actual tower monkey or site assessor, because the turbines and potential turbine sites are in far-flung rural areas (a.k.a. Not Here), and relocation isn't an option.

But at every one of these interviews with energy nonprofits, someone has asked me why, if I went to the trouble of getting the windsmith certification, I'm not looking for jobs in that sector (where, honestly, there are more jobs to be had). I've been hemming and hawing and giving this sort of B.S. line about being afraid of heights, but the truth is: I don't know why not.

I've been looking into the technician and site assessor jobs, and a fair number would allow me to be based in the Twin Cities and travel around to the sites. I wouldn't have to relocate. And I'm forced to ask myself: am I looking for an office environment because it's what I want, or because it's really all I know, and a tower monkey's or site assessor's work environment is soooo far outside of my comfort zone that my brain won't even look at it? Am I going to have to rechart my career path? Again?!?


Love and "aw nuts!',

cheddarThank you, cheddar. Thank you and thank you again. I'm definitely feeling both of those right now.

-Windsmith

[Eleisawolf]

What I've gotten from reading this part of the conversation is: There may not be anything like fate (and who would want it), but there is always a lesson to be learned from a sucky situation (I need to be a better interviewee, I need to find the people who really recognize me for what I can contribute instead of any other motivation, etc...).

Even if the lesson is, "This sucks, so I have to vent and cry and kvetch and it's time to move on," it's still a lesson. Even if the lesson is, "Wow... some things don't have a lesson for me... I hope they do for someone else."

One thing I learned from Basha is that I will never feel ashamed of being sad, even violently sad. Nor will I be ashamed of letting people know that I am sad.

Peace

[Windsmith]

What I've gotten from reading this part of the conversation is: There may not be anything like fate (and who would want it), but there is always a lesson to be learned from a sucky situation (I need to be a better interviewee, I need to find the people who really recognize me for what I can contribute instead of any other motivation, etc...)I don't know if I'd agree that there's always a lesson. As I think I mentioned someplace waaaay up-thread, sometimes things just happen because they happen, and I just want to experience them without having to learn something from them.

Or maybe there always is a lesson, but we have the choice to ignore it - or to not even look for it in the first place.

[RavenStars]

Now this is just me, but I've always had a problem with the concept of a "lesson" from events and outcomes. Partially because there's a judgemental aspect attached to it:
- that any event is evaluated as a good or bad lesson;
- that I'm supposed to use the concept of a lesson to decrease the pain or increase the joy;
- that one lesson can have more weight then others.

I can't think of anything else at the moment, but I'm sure there are others.

So there's the judgement aspect, but I also have problems with everything having a lesson. No offense intended. Life just is. I don't need to go looking under the rug for a lesson when I tripped on it and broke my leg. I feel confined when everything has a lesson. I feel like every choice is bound by lessons yet to come. I'd fuss and fret even more then I'd normally do about what's just happened and what I have to decide about the future. Life is just life, the good, bad and ugly.

Windsmith, my heart goes out to you. My sister has a master's degree and she's having to apply for administrative assistant jobs. I'm still making the transition to pantheism, I still have vestiges of wanting the comfort and protection of a goddess. Intellectually I'm putting together what I've always thought and believed. Emotionally I live with a great deal of fear, something that can't be intellectually solved or compartmentalized. I'm not saying that I can understand your situation, I'm saying the I empathize with you. Like I tell my sister, this isn't fate or that you're a bad person, this is bad things happening to a good person. You are capable, passionate and intelligent, and so is she.

In my opinion, life is a process, not a series of judgments from some mysterious source. Or even judgments I myself make about what happens to me. Life just is. For awhile I was using a quote from Peter Matthiessen as my signature about not seeing a snow lepord, he spent a year looking for it under horrendous conditions, and he exclaims at one point that this is wonderful indeed! Sometime life just is. And dang it, it hurts.

[Eleisawolf]

Or maybe there always is a lesson, but we have the choice to ignore it - or to not even look for it in the first place.

Bingo. Should I say, there's always the potential for a lesson, should you choose to find one?

Does that help, Raven Stars?

Peace

[Eleisawolf]

Now this is just me, but I've always had a problem with the concept of a "lesson" from events and outcomes. Partially because there's a judgemental aspect attached to it:
- that any event is evaluated as a good or bad lesson;
- that I'm supposed to use the concept of a lesson to decrease the pain or increase the joy;
- that one lesson can have more weight then others.

No offense intended. Life just is. I don't need to go looking under the rug for a lesson when I tripped on it and broke my leg. I feel confined when everything has a lesson. I feel like every choice is bound by lessons yet to come. I'd fuss and fret even more then I'd normally do about what's just happened and what I have to decide about the future. Life is just life, the good, bad and ugly.


Hey, I agree.

I don't agree that finding the lesson in things automatically means judging it. When I find lessons in things, it's because they're things I want to emulate or not. No judgment about whether they're bad, but just the way I want my life and my personhood to be.

Yes, the death of my cat hurt like hell. I could choose to look at that just as a life experience, and it would be just as rich. But I chose to look at it as an example of the way I want to see death. Graceful, meaningful, and a reason to express my love and, yes, my anger at losing someone I love.

Not a judgment, just something I've learned. I didn't have to, but I chose to.

All I'm saying is everything can be that way. It certainly doesn't have to be. I find my life more fulfilling if I make the choice to learn from everything I experience, along with having the experience itself. But that doesn't mean I think anyone else has to feel the same way.

Peace

[cheddarsox]

Lessons...

I find myself, in my own life, flickering back and forth.

I don't think the "lesson" is the point of the experience, that it is WHY a thing happens, to teach me something, or that I am "here to learn", etc. That would mean seeing the Universe as all about ME, that I was the reason things are the way they are, and I don't believe that.

Sometimes looking for or seeing a lesson in a situation helps me deal with it, it can be either a coping mechanism, or give me satisfaction. Other times, I find it to simply be annoying,sometimes it takes away from the experience of just having the experience.

I expect it has to do with brain function, human brains always seem to be trying to find patterns and make sense of things around them, even when there is no inherent pattern...(seeing faces in conglomerations of tree leaves for instance) and some brains are more attuned to doing that. Some people cannot function if they can't make sense out of things, it is a good coping mechanism for them to satisfy their minds by finding a lesson or cause in a thing. Other brains are more comfortable with loose ends, and just having the experience, they don't always need to fit it into the "big picture". They can enjoy the pieces of the puzzle, the varying shapes, the colors, etc, without having to place them into place and understand the whole image.

Most of the time I can enjoy the shape and colors of the pieces on their own, and I know (from experience) that often...at some point down the line, without me forcing it...I will see how they fit together, and then I can appreciate some of the bigger picture as well.

I wonder if the lesson thing has any correlation with whether or not a person likes to do puzzles, and how they approach them...

I HATE chess because it involves thinking so many steps ahead, and for me, that robs me of the delight of playing as I go.


cheddar

[Eleisawolf]

Thanks, Cheddar. You put it quite well, to my mind.

For me, well, I feel I can enjoy (or loathe, depending) each piece just as much while still using the part of my brain that wants to see the big picture. Perhaps that's also why I always enjoy following scientific discovery...

But I think the biggest thing I need to clarify is that I don't think the universe conspires to teach me anything... but what I do and how I present myself in the world does affect what happens to me much of the time, and looking for the connections can help me alter what happens the next time, if I so desire. It's not a universal judgment on me, but my own decision about what I want from life and how I experience it.

For me, the lesson I take doesn't negate or even diminish the experience. It's part of it.

That's all.

Peace

[Windsmith]

I HATE chess because it involves thinking so many steps ahead, and for me, that robs me of the delight of playing as I go.cheddar! Maybe that's why I'm so bad at chess and other strategy games. And yet I'm also fascinated by them, and by people who play them. I think it has to do with wanting to understand people whose brains work so completely differently from mine.


Windsmith, my heart goes out to you. My sister has a master's degree and she's having to apply for administrative assistant jobs. I'm still making the transition to pantheism, I still have vestiges of wanting the comfort and protection of a goddess. Intellectually I'm putting together what I've always thought and believed. Emotionally I live with a great deal of fear, something that can't be intellectually solved or compartmentalized. I'm not saying that I can understand your situation, I'm saying the I empathize with you. Like I tell my sister, this isn't fate or that you're a bad person, this is bad things happening to a good person. You are capable, passionate and intelligent, and so is she.Thank you so much, RavenStars. Getting down on myself and wondering if I didn't get the job because I'm a "bad person" is a hard habit to break. It helps to be reminded that there are people out there who do like me and think I'm a good human being.

And, hey - at least as a Pantheist, I don't have to worry that I didn't get the job because some deity is punishing me for wrongdoing!

Back to the job hunt....

[RavenStars]

I'm here tonight, reading, but my brain hurts so I'll wait to reply. This a very interesting subject!