Are there Satanic Witches?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

If this is on the wrong board please forgive my mistake. I started to place it under the Satanism category but felt it didn't belong thier as it is not trully about Satanism.

Are their Satanic Witches?

From a practical facet one would think not. In my experience if one ask's most self identified Witches then the answer is a resounding no. Yet can the truth be so far removed from so many?

The Urban Legend seems to imply that such has existed in the past and does so today. Regarldess of what we as a collective may think the answer is "YES THEY DO".

The daughter of Anton LeVay created a group know as the Satanic Witches in the 1970's. While the group was never (does it still exist") large it did exist. It held to some of the beliefs that was infused in Satansim yet it also was based upon some "Witchcraft" skills and beliefs.

While its been years since I ran into anyone who claimed lineage from this group that does not negate the fact it existed and was recognized as Satanic Witches.

Just food for though and possible discussion.

What do you think?

[Rowan Darkmoon]

Witches who worship Satan as god, and practice magic designed to honor him? Or people who follow the path of Satanism who are also magic practioners AKA "witches?"

[Shawn Blackwolf]

There was also the female , earlier version...that is why , in the
movie Constantine ( just to give an example...) , the term Whore was used...

And " He" replied , " ah yes , the old names" ...

The spelling came from an older language , and was Sh - ea - th - an...

Which later , became Sh - Th - N , in Hebrew...

Meaning advesary , or accuser...

are there Sh - ea - th - an - eck Witches...?

...Ahem....Yes...

[aluokaloo]

yes there are witches who also follow various sects of Satanism.

[Toby Stimpson]

Yes I definitly think its important to define first the Satanism you are talking about.

See Satanism to me seems very Humanist... where there may be some who worship Satan as a god...there are many others who would say its a philosophy. Since Witchcraft is not tied to any one religion... its important to first define what kind of Satanism you are talking about.

[Rowan Darkmoon]

Yes I definitly think its important to define first the Satanism you are talking about.

See Satanism to me seems very Humanist... where there may be some who worship Satan as a god...there are many others who would say its a philosophy. Since Witchcraft is not tied to any one religion... its important to first define what kind of Satanism you are talking about.

This was my question as well, but I don't think that I was very clear. 8O

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Rowan DarkmoonWitches who worship Satan as god, and practice magic designed to honor him? Or people who follow the path of Satanism who are also magic practioners AKA "witches?"


My understanding is that it feel into both categories. Some of them did worship the biblical Satan while others paid no homage to Satan but were practioners of magick.

One article I read said a few were from the older concept of Satanism that actually worshipped the Egyptain god Set. Which in concept made them both Witches and Satanist but not in the traditional sense.


GaladraalYes I definitly think its important to define first the Satanism you are talking about.

See Satanism to me seems very Humanist... where there may be some who worship Satan as a god...there are many others who would say its a philosophy. Since Witchcraft is not tied to any one religion... its important to first define what kind of Satanism you are talking about.

Don't want this to get moved to the Satanism board but will try to answer.

My understanding is that the group was formed of those who were true Levay and Crawley inspired Satanist. Yet within that group thier were some (sorry don't actually known how many) that came into the Crawley / Levay group from the Egyptain God Set variety.

I do not believe though that it involved the traditional worship of Satan as found in the church backed concept of the Ordained Roman Catholic priest who delivered the black mass.

I suppose you could have a variety of Wiccan vice Witch if it is based upon the concept of Egyptain gods / goddess yet I truly don't know the counter to Set.

Though I guess their could be some influence from a Satanic belief built around Lillith. Yet that is trully speculation on my part.

[Rowan Darkmoon]

I wouldn't see why they wouldn't exist, and I have met some before, so I can tell you that they do exist. :lol:

I think that when you ask most self-identified witches if witches are Satanic, they would say, "No," but they would not deny that there are Satanic Witches.

The contradiction lies in the fact that most people who identify themselves as Wiccan also identify themselves as a witch, and in the fact that Witchcraft is a practice and not a faith. If you asked some Wiccans outright if witches are Satanic, they would tell you, "No" because Wiccans aren't worshippers of a "Satanic" entity, and they want to distinguish themselves from the folklore and stigma that surrounds the practice of witchcraft.

Like all stereotypes, it's going to fit some people and not others, and you can get into very long discussions, and there have been many on this board, about which witch is which.

[RenDjembe]

This goes with the ongoing battle of "Is Wichcraft a Craft or a religion?"

If your practice any sort of magic, Yes you are a Witch & may call yourself a Witch.

When Wiccans (Or people who use Witchcraft as a religious belief) call themselves Witches and say "I don't believe in Satan" This is where the confusion comes out.

[Toby Stimpson]

This goes with the ongoing battle of "Is Wichcraft a Craft or a religion?"

If your practice any sort of magic, Yes you are a Witch & may call yourself a Witch.

When Wiccans (Or people who use Witchcraft as a religious belief) call themselves Witches and say "I don't believe in Satan" This is where the confusion comes out.

I agree with this.

I definitly think there would be confusion becasue of conflicting terminology.

I would think that there are, and I know some on thsi board, who view witchcraft as essentially a craft only...not a religion in it's own. yes there are religious witches and tarditions that are heavily imbued with Witchcraft, but they co-opted the term. Religious witches might say no there are no Satanist Witches.

Others who view and take from the Satanist philosophy... and who also happen to practice witchcraft and call themselves, Witches, practitioners of Magic will say that yes there are Satanist Witches... or witches who-happen-to-be-satanists.

People of other religions who eqaute Witchcraft with Satan will ofcoruse say that ALL witches are satanists.

So it really does depend.

See another possibility is that there are Wiccans who are also Satanists and take from the Levayan Philosophies...and who practice witchcraft...so they would be Satanist witches as well.

I doubt that there are 'satanist witches' who follow the stereotypes put forward by Church officials... I could be wrong... but I highly doubt they exist.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Mon Sno_LeeDra :

I do understand now what you were refering to...

However , I should care to explain my post...The name Sh - ea - th - an ,
to us , signifies a process of transformation , or death , via Spiritual Fire...

It was an ancient Goddess Tradition , long before the Egyptian , and Set...

Set , originally , in our language , was a star deity...

Sh - ea - th - an - eck Mgieck , was a way of setting in motion a Spiritual Fire
in the body , known in later traditions by many names , including Kundalini...
( by whatever spelling ...We used Kaendealeene )

It either killed you , or burned away all " impurities"...

And that was only part of the first year initiation...if you survived...

You had the ability to utilize the energy...

[Twinkle]

I don't think it matters which "version" of Satanism we're talking about. Since witchcraft is not confined to religion....the answer would be yes, there are Satanic Witches.

[Ben Gruagach]

Other variations of what some would call Satanic witchcraft, not necessarily connected to LaVeyan material, can be found among some Clan of Tubal-Cain and other traditional (non-Wiccan) witches.

For instance, you'll find some material that could be classified as Satanic (as in working with versions of Satan, Lucifer, and other beings Christians have identified as devils) in the following books:

"The Book of Fallen Angels" by Michael Howard.

"Masks of Misrule" by Nigel Jackson.

"The Pillars of Tubal-Cain" by Michael Howard and Nigel Jackson.

Pretty much anything by Michael Ford (such as his books "Luciferian Witchcraft" and "Book of the Witch Moon.")

And the pre-Gardnerian grimoire titled "The Black Books of Elverum" translated and edited by Mary S. Rustad includes some pretty overtly Satanic witchcraft as in it follows some of the Christian stereotypes about witch practices such as working with the Christian devil. (Other spells in that grimoire call upon Christian good spirits too -- it's basically Christian witchcraft with some Christian diabolism mixed in along with smatterings of Pagan stuff.)

Alex Sanders, the founder of the Alexandrian Wicca tradition, even did his version of a "black mass" with his coven for the cameras in the documentary "Legend of the Witches" (which is available on DVD if you look for it online.) Of course that doesn't mean it's part of the standard Alexandrian Wiccan practice now, but Alex didn't seem to have a problem presenting it as part of witchcraft in that particular documentary, which was filmed in the late 1960s -- the documentary came out at the start of 1970.

[David19]

Yes, there are witches who worship Satan as a god (or depending on the Satanism, witches who don't believe in Satan as a literal god, but more a principle aka Lavey).



Other variations of what some would call Satanic witchcraft, not necessarily connected to LaVeyan material, can be found among some Clan of Tubal-Cain and other traditional (non-Wiccan) witches.

For instance, you'll find some material that could be classified as Satanic (as in working with versions of Satan, Lucifer, and other beings Christians have identified as devils) in the following books:

"The Book of Fallen Angels" by Michael Howard.

"Masks of Misrule" by Nigel Jackson.

"The Pillars of Tubal-Cain" by Michael Howard and Nigel Jackson.

Pretty much anything by Michael Ford (such as his books "Luciferian Witchcraft" and "Book of the Witch Moon.")

Michael Ford is definantly a Satanist and I really want to get some of his books, but the other ones, like the Clan of Tubal Cain and other related Cochrane (or Cochrane-inspired) traditions are more pagan than they are Satanic (they may use Satanic type imagery, though).

Interestingly, I've been told that Michael Howard's books aren't that great and that Nigel Jackson is basically a pop writer (he writes for the crowd, so he'll write about traditional witchcraft if the audiences wants him too, and his book 'Call of the Horned Piper' isn't his words but was dictated by Evan John Jones, and Jackson has apparantly stated he doesn't understand the material in the book).


And the pre-Gardnerian grimoire titled "The Black Books of Elverum" translated and edited by Mary S. Rustad includes some pretty overtly Satanic witchcraft as in it follows some of the Christian stereotypes about witch practices such as working with the Christian devil. (Other spells in that grimoire call upon Christian good spirits too -- it's basically Christian witchcraft with some Christian diabolism mixed in along with smatterings of Pagan stuff.)

I definantly want to get this book.


Alex Sanders, the founder of the Alexandrian Wicca tradition, even did his version of a "black mass" with his coven for the cameras in the documentary "Legend of the Witches" (which is available on DVD if you look for it online.) Of course that doesn't mean it's part of the standard Alexandrian Wiccan practice now, but Alex didn't seem to have a problem presenting it as part of witchcraft in that particular documentary, which was filmed in the late 1960s -- the documentary came out at the start of 1970.

IMO, he probably only did this for publicity (he also claimed to be the "king of all witches" and that his grandmother "initiated him", didn't he?).

[Dawa Lhamo]

I think this is where we get ourselves into hot water, when we lay out blanket statements like "witches don't worship Satan" or "witches aren't Satanic". Because there are witches who do/are. (And I still see enough presence out there that I think it's perfectly true to say that they exist.)

And there are all kinds of rituals that involve Satan (or the Devil/Lucifer/etc...) all over the net and in books... and so someone sees them out there, and it looks like we're hiding something. I think it's best to be honest. Even if *you* aren't Satanic, that doesn't mean that "witches aren't Satanic"... most aren't, but some are.

And heck, there are lots of not-Satanist witches who incorporate stereotypically "Satanic" elements like black mass or the Lord's Prayer backwards.

I don't pretend to know a lot about Satanism and it's various threads and manifestations, but I do see people calling themselves "Satanists" and "witches" at the same time. ^_^

[SweetIsTheTruth]

I think this is where we get ourselves into hot water, when we lay out blanket statements like "witches don't worship Satan" or "witches aren't Satanic". Because there are witches who do/are. (And I still see enough presence out there that I think it's perfectly true to say that they exist.)

Then we have to get 4 things straight;

1. Wicca is a religion which incorporates practices of witchcraft, which doesn't aknowledge Satan as a general rule, although some individuals might.

2. Witchcraft is a practice, not a religion, wherein practitioners may or may worship or honor Gods or Goddesses including Satan, or may not.

3. Modern Satanism is atheist at it's heart, so doesn't consider Satan to actually exist.

4. Theistic Satanists worship and honor Satan and so do believe he exists.

Now, point out all examples which contradict any of the statements above.



And heck, there are lots of not-Satanist witches who incorporate stereotypically "Satanic" elements like black mass or the Lord's Prayer backwards.

OOPS! Looks like we will have to add another number to our list;

5. Rituals of blasphemy may be used by any of the groups listed in numbers 1-4 when commencing on a new spirtual path. A ritual of blashphemy isn't necessarily a rite of worship, since the point is to renounce one's previous religious belief. The point of saying the Lord's Prayer backwards, is to communicate to the subconscious that one is throwing off religious ideas that no longer fit the person, not necessarily a right of worship in a new religion. Even a Satanic ritual, written by a Satanist, such as the exorcism of Jehovah, could be used as a rite of blasphemy to begin the process of severing oneself from a previous religion, without necessarily being a rite of worship in and of itself.

Feel free to point out any errors in my understanding.

[latin_baller]

I think that can also be compared to LaVeyan Satanists stealing the word "Satanism".

LaVey believed he had invented "Satanism". Today LaVeyan Satanists deny Traditional Satanists (the first Satanists) are "Satanists" and instead call them "Devil-worshippers". To me LaVeyan Satanists are nothing more than Atheists who like to play dress-up.

Its the same case with Wiccans taking the word "witch" and "witchcraft" to themselves, denying that witchcraft has any associations with Satan. But there are Satanic Witches-ones that have existed before Wicca was even founded.

If you are interested in Satanic witchcraft there is a book called, Luciferian Witchcraft, on Amazon.com

[Stormbeard]

LaVey believed he had invented "Satanism".

You're so wrong, you don't even remember what right looks like. If you'd read LeVay's Satanic Bible (which it's obvious that you haven't) then you'd know that he doesn't claim to have invented Satanism at all. In fact, he goes quite deep into Satanic Worship and 'Satanism' throughout history.

Nobody truly lays claim to the 'Satanist' name. No more than Catholicism owns the term 'Christian'

LeVayan Satanism sees Satan as a literary and historical figure symbolic of individualistic and 'Earthly' values.


Today LaVeyan Satanists deny Traditional Satanists (the first Satanists) are "Satanists" and instead call them "Devil-worshippers"

I don't believe that worshipping any deity is correct. I don't want to be associated with those that do. Satanism to me will always be about the understanding of human nature and the advocation of individualism and materialism. There is no need for any of the supernatural bullshit that a lot of other religions suffer from.

Anton LeVay was a fantastic author. He was a big fan of Ayn Rand, Friedrich Nietzsche and, to an extent, the philosophy of Aleister Crowley. This is strongly reflected in his writings.

He is not, however, perfect. He breaks the sixth of the 'Eleven Satanic Rule of the Earth' himself. "Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved". The Satanic Bible is so similar to parts of 'Might is Right' by Ragnar Redbeard that it borders on plagiarism. He knew this, and has mentioned how groundbreaking a work he considers it to be, and how it shaped his philosophy for The Satanic Bible.

A bashing of LeVay will do me no harm. I am my own believer and I trust in what I trust. There are parts of LeVayan Satanism that are obtuse and unneccessary. Just make sure you get your facts straight before you decide to take a shot at my religion.

[PrincessKLS]

Technically since Satanists do practice a form of black magick can be seen as witches, and technically they could be considered a pagan path, since they don't fit the Christian/Muslim/Jewish mold. However many witches and pagans don't want to associate with them due to the misinformation of the nonpagan communities that see anything other than their own as a Satanic path and their openness about black magick use and opposition to social mores (moreso than anyone else).

[Nox_Mortus]

yes there are, both theistic and LaVeyan Satanists can and have practiced witchcraft.

[Bettie]

Technically since Satanists do practice a form of black magick can be seen as witches, and technically they could be considered a pagan path, since they don't fit the Christian/Muslim/Jewish mold.

What do you mean by "black magick"??
Implying that all Satanists practice it is erroneous, I believe...

[Ben Gruagach]

What do you mean by "black magick"??
Implying that all Satanists practice it is erroneous, I believe...

I agree that PrincessKLS's post seemed to have quite a few questionable assumptions in it. Perhaps she can clarify.

Personally, my favourite definition of "black magick" is "anything that works!" Another way of looking at it that I think makes sense is that "black magick" is magick for practical purposes as opposed to magick for supposedly higher purposes like putting one in touch with some sort of Divine being. Praying for someone to become healthy then counts as black magick...

[Stormbeard]

I don't believe in witchcraft personally. What you'll find is that Satanism is a religion that allows its followers great freedom, guidance not orders.

[Ben Gruagach]

I don't believe in witchcraft personally. What you'll find is that Satanism is a religion that allows its followers great freedom, guidance not orders.

I always find statements like "I don't believe in witchcraft" to be like saying "I don't believe in medicine" or "I don't believe in Christianity."

Perhaps you meant to say something like "I don't believe in the effectiveness of magick and spells" -- there are witches practicing witchcraft and have been for countless generations, regardless whether anyone "believes in" them or not.

There are lots of us here on MysticWicks who have been practicing witchcraft, and who call ourselves witches, so someone saying they don't "believe in" our existence is counter to flesh-and-blood reality.

[Stormbeard]

I always find statements like "I don't believe in witchcraft" to be like saying "I don't believe in medicine" or "I don't believe in Christianity."

Perhaps you meant to say something like "I don't believe in the effectiveness of magick and spells" -- there are witches practicing witchcraft and have been for countless generations, regardless whether anyone "believes in" them or not.

There are lots of us here on MysticWicks who have been practicing witchcraft, and who call ourselves witches, so someone saying they don't "believe in" our existence is counter to flesh-and-blood reality.

Regardless. I don't believe in witchcraft. Nor Christianity.

Let me clarify.

I believe there are people practicing both those teachings, but what they're practicing I believe to be a lie.

[Ben Gruagach]

Regardless. I don't believe in witchcraft. Nor Christianity.

Let me clarify.

I believe there are people practicing both those teachings, but what they're practicing I believe to be a lie.

There's a difference between not agreeing with something and "not believing in" it. "Not believing in" something implies either you think it doesn't exist, or is used as a statement to indicate you are not a follower of that path.

Just sayin'

[Stormbeard]

There's a difference between not agreeing with something and "not believing in" it. "Not believing in" something implies either you think it doesn't exist, or is used as a statement to indicate you are not a follower of that path.

Just sayin'

I don't believe 'magick' exists.

[Ben Gruagach]

I don't believe 'magick' exists.

Magick is one of those things where it will fulfill your expectations. For those who believe it exists, it definitely exists. For those who do not believe it exists, it definitely does not exist.

I prefer living in a world that is filled with magick.

(Seriously though it all depends on how you define magick/magic. There are lots of threads (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=89000) that discuss (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=132205) precisely that (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=124300) on this and many other Pagan messageboards. It's a perennial question and will never be "officially" settled. Thank the Gods for that!)

[Stormbeard]

Magick is one of those things where it will fulfill your expectations. For those who believe it exists, it definitely exists. For those who do not believe it exists, it definitely does not exist.

So it's existance is purely subjective?

[BlackLili]

So it's existance is purely subjective?
Until it can be proved in a quantifiable/empirical manner, wouldn't it have to be?

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” - Stuart Chase

[Stormbeard]

Well that's a very easy way to justify just about anything. The whole "If you have to ask, you'll never know" defense. It's illogical. I'm very methodical, almost cold in my working.

The idea of magic runs at odds with everything that HAS been proved.

[BlackLili]

Well that's a very easy way to justify just about anything. The whole "If you have to ask, you'll never know" defense. It's illogical. I'm very methodical, almost cold in my working.

The idea of magic runs at odds with everything that HAS been proved.
I dunno man. My magick looks a whole lot like how they're describing the movements of particles within quantum physics these days.

You sure it ALL runs counter?

[Stormbeard]

Well yeah, because quantum physics by any other name still comes in small but discrete units... or something

[Ben Gruagach]

Well that's a very easy way to justify just about anything. The whole "If you have to ask, you'll never know" defense. It's illogical. I'm very methodical, almost cold in my working.

The idea of magic runs at odds with everything that HAS been proved.

It all depends on how you define magic/magick.

(Those threads I linked go into the whole discussion if you really want to get into it. Let's try and keep this thread on topic -- it's not magic/magick, but Satanic Witches.)

[Thyrsos]

Witches worship the Goddess. Satanists worship Satan. Satanists are not Witches anymore than Muslims are Buddhists.

[Moonlight's Daughter]

Witches worship the Goddess. Satanists worship Satan. Satanists are not Witches anymore than Muslims are Buddhists.


Not Necissarily. Wiccans dont worship satan (at least the all the ones I have ever met) But Witches are completely different. Witchcraft is a craft-not necissarily a religion.

(goes back to that all Wiccans are witches but not all witches are wiccans thing) (or should I say most)

I beleive that their can be Satanist witches, but probably NOT the Satan of Christianity.

[Mesektet]

I have met a number of Satanist witches in my years, with the majority of them being of the LaVeyist tradition in regards to their brand of Satanism. Though I believe one claimed to be a Luciferian.

[Caitlin.ann]

Not all witches worship the goddess, many don't worship any deity at all..

[Rudas Starblaze]

(not in response to you Sacrensin)

*slams head on desk*

witchcraft has F*** all to do with religion!!

witchcraft has been around for thousands of years in various cultures worldwide and given many different definitions within each culture.

witches can be can follow anything or NOTHING AT ALL.

[Mesektet]

(not in response to you Sacrensin)

*slams head on desk*

witchcraft has F*** all to do with religion!!

witchcraft has been around for thousands of years in various cultures worldwide and given many different definitions within each culture.

witches can be can follow anything or NOTHING AT ALL.

Indeed, thankfully we can rely on you for the much needed over-enthusiastic response.

[Caitlin.ann]

Hehe, I love your post, Rudas and I wish I could give you karma but the system wouldn't let me. :(

Thanks for the clarification as well. :)

[Stormbeard]

Witches worship the Goddess. Satanists worship Satan. Satanists are not Witches anymore than Muslims are Buddhists.

Please try not to be a ****ing idiot.

We don't worship Satan.

[Philosophia]

Witches worship the Goddess. Satanists worship Satan. Satanists are not Witches anymore than Muslims are Buddhists.

Nope. Witches worship whatever they want or nothing at all. They can be satanist witches, christian witches, goddess witches, atheist witches, etc..

[Ourobori]

Nope. Witches worship whatever they want or nothing at all. They can be satanist witches, christian witches, goddess witches, atheist witches, etc..


I think the biggest point to be pointed out is the fact that, to automatically just *assume* that Satanism is intrinsically linked to Satan because of it's name is... silly.

If you don't understand (which the person clearly didn't) ask, instead of being ignorant.

On top of which, no. Xian witches cannot exist by proxy.

Whilst you may believe they can, they cannot because the entire concept of witchcraft goes entirely against the teachings of Xianity. There are entire sections within the Xian holy books teaching against witchcraft and it's practisers in all it's form.

Most people who tend to say they follow both paths are those who are too afraid to subscribe wholly to a faith that goes entirely against everything their beloved monotheistic faith based entirely on man made archaic scriptures sets forth.

[Stormbeard]

I think the biggest point to be pointed out is the fact that, to automatically just *assume* that Satanism is intrinsically linked to Satan because of it's name is... silly.

If you don't understand (which the person clearly didn't) ask, instead of being ignorant.
Or, at risk of sounding like an overworked forum guide, read the mother****ing stickies

[Ben Gruagach]

I know this isn't going to be politically correct, but while I understand that there are many modern Satanists who don't worship the Christian Satan, there are some who do. And there are some in the past who did as well. (Leo Louis Martello talks about this, and interviews a modern Satanic practitioner, in some of his books on the topic.)

Saying that there are absolutely no Satanists who worship Satan is just as bad as a misinformed Wiccan saying that all Witches are Wiccans.

And while there is no doubt that there are many prohibitions in Christianity against the practice of witchcraft, that hasn't stopped any of the very Christian witches who have practiced their Craft throughout history (and even today.) Look at "The Black Books of Elverum" edited by Mary S. Rustad for a great example of historical Christian and Satanic witchcraft. It dates back to the 1800s and even the 1700s.

To repeat what Philosophia stated so eloquently, witches can practice any religion or no religion at all as part of their Craft. (And they do!)

[Stormbeard]

Saying that there are absolutely no Satanists who worship Satan is just as bad as a misinformed Wiccan saying that all Witches are Wiccans.

Satanists who worship Satan are not true Satanists. But rather puppets, and attention seekers of the worst kind.

[Philosophia]

I think the biggest point to be pointed out is the fact that, to automatically just *assume* that Satanism is intrinsically linked to Satan because of it's name is... silly.

If you don't understand (which the person clearly didn't) ask, instead of being ignorant.

I agree, though I never said anything differently.


On top of which, no. Xian witches cannot exist by proxy.

Whilst you may believe they can, they cannot because the entire concept of witchcraft goes entirely against the teachings of Xianity. There are entire sections within the Xian holy books teaching against witchcraft and it's practisers in all it's form.

Most people who tend to say they follow both paths are those who are too afraid to subscribe wholly to a faith that goes entirely against everything their beloved monotheistic faith based entirely on man made archaic scriptures sets forth.

Christian witches can and do exist. There is a path forum on MW called "Christian Witchcraft (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=223)" which may help explain it a bit better.

[Sage Rainsong]

Satanists who worship Satan are not true Satanists. But rather puppets, and attention seekers of the worst kind.

That's a matter of opinion, don't you think? Theistic Satanists can easily turn around and say that LaVeyan Satanists are not real Satanists because they use the name of a deity that they don't even believe in for an atheistic philosophy. I'm not say that I support that statement my point is to ask the question, who can say who is a "real" Satanist or not?

[RoseKitten]

On top of which, no. Xian witches cannot exist by proxy.

Whilst you may believe they can, they cannot because the entire concept of witchcraft goes entirely against the teachings of Xianity. There are entire sections within the Xian holy books teaching against witchcraft and it's practisers in all it's form.

Most people who tend to say they follow both paths are those who are too afraid to subscribe wholly to a faith that goes entirely against everything their beloved monotheistic faith based entirely on man made archaic scriptures sets forth.


Is that maybe dependent on which translation of the bible you read? I wouldn't know myself, as I've never read the bible, but could you give me an area to research so I can see for myself? Thanks.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Rhetorical question :

But if Satan exists...is Satan a Satanist ?

[Stormbeard]

That's a matter of opinion, don't you think? Theistic Satanists can easily turn around and say that LaVeyan Satanists are not real Satanists because they use the name of a deity that they don't even believe in for an atheistic philosophy. I'm not say that I support that statement my point is to ask the question, who can say who is a "real" Satanist or not?

Two things. Of course it is my opinion. They are my words are they not?

Also, Anton LeVey clearly describes the reasons for the name Satanism.

[Dark_Tezcatlipoca]

Rhetorical question :

But if Satan exists...is Satan a Satanist ?

If Allah exists, is he a Muslim? I think not, as a Muslim is one who submits to Allah. Therefore he'd be submitting to himself? I think not.

I believe this question is a similar case...

[Stormbeard]

If Satan existed he would be a Christian surely.

Because his existance as Satan would be an affirmation of the Christian faith.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Thanks , guys...just thought I'd ask...:lol:

[VenusSatanas]

A Satanic witch, is a Satanist who uses witchcraft. Witchcraft is similar to basic folk magic and it does not need a religion to help make it work, because it is a method of magic, not religion. Therefore, Satanic witches do exist but it is probably a type of magic that is specific to Satanism.

There was also a book written by ASLavey titled 'The Satanic Witch' . LaVey mistakenly believed that *all women* were witches because of their true natures, and that witchcraft was the power of enticement. LaVey promoted this idea as part of his materialist philosophy, and in was line with his 'religion of the flesh' as he so called it. LaVeyan Satanism, does not define all of Satanism of course so there are other paths of Satanism, such as theistic and spiritual satanists [like myself] who use witchcraft quite often.

Most Christians have no idea on what witchcraft is, so they mis represent all paths of witchcraft as evil and Satanic. Its part of their religious panic techniques that have worked for centuries.

Venus Satanas