Problem Personalities

[Vigdisdotter]

What the title says :)

I want to get ideas an input on what to do about problem personalities. you know, those people that just make the entire experience icky for everyone else.

Some times it's a malevolent "ick" and other times no harm is meant, but the ickness is there just the same.

I'll give an example of each.

There is a person in my town that I feel fully justified in calling a Spiritual Preditor. She sucks the new an inexperianced in with promices of "training" and then starts playing power games. I've had to try to put peopl back together on a couple of occasions after she's done a number on them.

Another is a bi-polar lady that has NO grounding or centring skills and seem to thing that it's jsut fine and dandy to let her energies wander wherever the hell they please. She a nice enough person, but she is definitely a high maintenance and not fun to be around for more then 10 minutes.

Being at a coffee moot with these people is bad enough. Circling with them is impossible.

So how would people handle their presence in different public group situations?
Such as at.....

Public Ritual
Coffee Moot
Public Class
Pagan Pride Day

Any ideas? Suggestions? Stories to share? :)

[Lunacie]

Wow, tough situations. Part of the reason I don't do much community stuff. Besides being an Empath, I'm allergic to perfume and cigarette smoke, so I end up overwhelmed with all the energies and have a migraine to top it off.

With the first, I'd think about doing a spell to help her find a better place to live - far, far away. ;) Or ask the gods to give her a wake up call. Last resort would be to do a binding.

With the second, I'd talk to her about taking meds, about taking classes on learning to ground and center, learning control, learning to shield, helping her to focus better. Or ask the gods to send someone into her life that will help her with those issues.

[Nitefalle]

PAGAN PRIDE DAY:
I would put that in the category of "not my problem". Sure, there are organizers, but that is an advertised, publicized event. You are not responsible for who shows and who doesn't. You're not a babysitter.

PUBLIC CLASS:
You *could* try and pair them with people who might match them, strengths for weaknesses, if there is such a pairing exercise. Or, you could make an example of them in a constructive way, if you are doing a group exercise where everyone has to do something in front of the class. For instance, the bi polar woman....if you gave some sort of class on energy work you could say "Now class, who felt those energies and who didn't? How did they feel? Chaotic? We all feel like that sometimes in our lives, where we can't control our emotions or energies, and here's what you can do in that situation." Maybe she just doesn't realize? For the predator woman, you could give a class on the perils and promises of teachers - what to look for, what to avoid. You don't have to name any names, but give general guidelines and let people figure it out for themselves.

COFFEE MOOT:
Again, like the Pride Day, this is something you can't control, nor should you try to. Just avoid them and hope people do the same. If you really feel the need, you could, over time, pull new people aside and maybe give them a heads up about the predator woman. If she's really that bad, people should be warned.

PUBLIC CIRCLES:
Stop inviting them. The bipolar woman, I at least can sympathize on behalf of, maybe she doesn't know it, maybe she does. Sometimes, they just can't help it, even with meds. The predator I would stop inviting, especially if you know she's only there to pick up new people. Or, again, ahead of time you could pull new people aside and give them a little warning. Unfortunately, with public gatherings, you can't control who comes or not, but the best thing to do is just be aware and be on your guard.

[Brigid Rowan]

Oohhh, tough questions.

I think as far as the predator personality, Im surprised word hasn't gotten around that she is destructive and a hassle. These type folks usually "hang themselves" with their own self-centered behavior. So maybe that will happen soon enough on it's own?

As far as the lady with bipolar disorder...I wonder if you know the type of bipolar she has? Some folks get manic, and depressed, others shift less into manic and more into panic.

A hallmark of the disease is a marked innability to accurately judge one's mental wellness when the disease is poorly controlled. She may really be unaware of her personality issues right now.

On the other hand...bipolar disorder can be misdiagnosed, and if she is suffering from something like borderline personality disorder, the bipolar meds MIGHT worsen her symptoms. Its very complex...and hard to treat in some people. It sounds as if she is not well-medicated, if she is really wearing thin her welcome in 10 minutes. Perhaps her anxiety component of her illness makes her very psychologically needy and messy, hence the energy being here there and everywhere.

My husbands ex wife is a borderline/bipolar who is very poorly managed, illness wise, right now, so believe me, I FEEL your pain. The ex wife is hyper-anxious, hyper needy, and being around her is really tiring, she swings from needy, stilted little girl to angry and screaming like a banshee she-warrior with no warning every few months. IF she took her meds properly, and she didnt drink alcohal (even a glass of wine can screw with psych meds), life might be easier for her to cope with. But, its her choice.

If you feel the ability to softly, gently, inquire about how she has been doing, and again, nicely mention some things that you've noted in her behavior (being judgemental would backfire...she has feelings, and would be hurt, plus getting her defensive helps no one), she can perhaps take those thoughts to her doctor, and work on improving her health. We did try this with the husbands ex when she got really spaced out, but she was involuntarily commited by her doc at that point, which was a good thing, for her safety.

[~Elise~]

public ritual--I put a bubble over those I don't want interfering with the energy.

Same at a moot (well-it was a sumble--almost same thing)

PPD--can't do much there--even if you are the organizer of that (which I've been) gotta handle the stuff that you can in that situation
--That said- when I had it--I set the energy in the room/area before anyone got there...so there were no problems. everyone got along

public class - I'd bubble them again. but also--set the energy in the room before anyone arrives, that should handle it.

as for the Predator--we had one of those too, but he was preying on them sexually. I would not allow new people in my group to attend public ritual without me/or experienced member of the group. (and I don't have many rules--could I absolutely forbid it, NO... but I strongly recommended against it and explained my reasoning--everyone usually complied)

I'm also a HPs that most don't want to cross--but everyone wants to learn from.

Elise

[Lunacie]

Elise, what do you mean by "set the energy in the room"? How do you go about doing that?

[~Elise~]

I do a quick cleansing-then I would cast an open type circle with calming, soothing energies. My intent would be to stop trouble at the door.

You've felt (or i hope so anyway) energies set for when we were doing fairs. I would set the energy for browsing and (hopefully) buying things.

Elise

Hope that made sense somewhat.

[Lunacie]

Yeah, I felt the energy at the fairs, it felt very welcoming and I will say that there didn't seem to be a lot of arguments or back-biting going on, but the bit about buying stuff wasn't working quite as well. ;)

Anyway, good idea. Hopefully I will remember to try that before the group shows up here at my house for class on Saturday evening. :hahugh:

[~Elise~]

Lunacie--use Reiki to bring in Light and seal the room with Chokurei. Should work great for you.

Elise

[Lunacie]

I've never studied Chokurei, or even heard of it.

I'm very comfortable with the regular group and only took on the leadership because of their support and encouragement. My concern is with a couple of women who are petitioning to join the group. I'm not sure just why I have some concerns about them, but we just don't seem to be communicating with each other well. It's not just that our styles seem to be different because we're an Eclectic group and I loved it when one of the guys led a ritual in Shamanistic style and it was interesting when a couple led a ritual in Correllian style, although neither of those are something that I would do myself. I was really hoping we could find a few new members, but I'm just not feeling like these two are really compatible. Only, I hate to not give it a real chance to see if we can mesh, we've only known each other a couple of months.


eta: Ah ha, I just did a Google and I see that Chokurei is something you learn in second level Reiki, but I'm only a first level practicioner. But thanks for the information and suggestions. :thumbsup:

[~Elise~]

My mistake--for some reason I was thinking you were a Reiki Master... (total assumption on my part-not anything you've ever said to make me think that)
Guess we know what they say about assuming. LOL

Elise

[Lunacie]

My mistake--for some reason I was thinking you were a Reiki Master... (total assumption on my part-not anything you've ever said to make me think that)
Guess we know what they say about assuming. LOL

Elise

Oh you did? Hmmm, interestink. Very interestink. ;)

[Xander67]

Public Ritual: abstain, she will only distract you by drawing attention to her and may hinder your connection to the astral, and possibly make it harder for you to go alpha

Coffee Moot: Polite, couteous, but avoid conversation with them if possible, they will just agravate you by going on about thier greatness

Public Class: let them make a fool of themselves.. just sit back and enjoy the show... and pray the teacher pulls them aside or gives them a hint that they are not the teacher ..

Pagan Pride Day: plenty of other ppl there, mingle away from them...

[Ivy Artemisia]

Here's my 2 cents, FWIW. My reaction would depend on my role at each of the events. If I'm not leading or in charge of the event, and I haven't been asked for help, I just try to stay away from the problem personality. Its not up to me to step on the toes of the people running the event. Now, if I'm in charge, or have a big role in organizing said event, that'd be different...

Public Ritual- Spiritual Predator- while spacing and adjusting the circle to balance the energies, make sure SP is around those who know that s/he is BS and can act as a buffer between SP and others. Bi-Polar person, I'd probably try to put next to overly earth people- very grounded energies might influence her wandering energies. Most of the time, during a public ritual, everything is focused on what is going on in the center of circle, so one would hope that it wouldn't be too distracting. If it did, I would speak with them after circle and let them know that until they can tone down their issues, that it would be better if they didn't come again.


Coffee Moot- this one might be a little tougher, since there isn't usually one specific focus. If SP starts to act all overly knowledgeable, and then tries to suck people away from training, my game plan would be to make sure those people have my card in case they need someone else to talk to. BP woman- we'll it would depend on her behavior. If she's distracting, ask her not to come anymore- and be forthright with why. Its hard to not make a moot exclusive, since the purpose usually is to just hang out and have fun- but no one will come if you allow a lot of distractions. Also, if she gets irritating- there's a good chance others will call her out on it.


Public Class- It would depend on their behavior. If SP started trying to teach the class or began being disruptive, I would politely refund her money and ask her to leave. If she makes a scene, she's the one that looks like a loser. BP, however might be distracting- you just have to use your teacher skills and quell interruptions. If BP doesn't know that she's gona a G&C problem, you might just want to talk to her about it and see if you can help.


Pagan Pride Day- should be big enough that you can avoid them. Though for SP, its probably a feeding ground. Thats tough- because people can get sucked in and power tripped out for you to put back together, but I've found that most people mature enough to learn the craft have a BS/Power Trip meter, and will only stand for so much. Many people in my community have reputations that precede them- for a reason.

Thats my input!

[Vigdisdotter]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and input. I suppose I should really explain more of where I’m coming from. I’m in the process of putting together a pagan organization for my area. Unfortunately, my area has a LOT of bad blood. So the mandate of the new organization is to provide a safe, sane place where bad mouthing of others will not be tolerated.

So yes, I will be the organizer/facilitator of those and other events. Thus it will be my responsibility to make sure everyone behaves. What I’m having trouble with is that I don’t’ WANT to play the heavy. I don’t want to have to walk around with a big stick whacking the bad little boys and girls. Ideally, I want to brain storm how I help the individuals at events police themselves.

I acknowledge that I will probably have to confront and talk to such people. I’ just looking for a non-threatening way to do that. By “non-threatening” I mean more to the other people gathered then anyone else.

So far I’m not coming up with anything more tactful then cuffing people upside the head ^_^;;

[Nitefalle]

In that case, I would try and precede everything with some sort of disclaimer, such as :

"Attention everyone: this gathering today is for the purpose of [BLANK]. If anyone approaches you trying to do [BLANK] or tell you [BLANK], or generally bother you in any way that you feel is inappropriate, please come let me know (or tell them to find the ticket table and tell someone there, or tell the teacher in charge of the class, whoever is designated to help you organize / run / police, etc.)."

You could put it on the Pride Day hand out, or make an announcement to each class, or whatever is easiest for you. That way, it's not directly insulting or singling out anyone in particular, and you've covered as much ground as you can without whacking people with the big stick directly (eg, telling SP that she can't attend any gatherings, etc.).

[~Elise~]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and input. I suppose I should really explain more of where I’m coming from. I’m in the process of putting together a pagan organization for my area. Unfortunately, my area has a LOT of bad blood. So the mandate of the new organization is to provide a safe, sane place where bad mouthing of others will not be tolerated.

So yes, I will be the organizer/facilitator of those and other events. Thus it will be my responsibility to make sure everyone behaves. What I’m having trouble with is that I don’t’ WANT to play the heavy. I don’t want to have to walk around with a big stick whacking the bad little boys and girls. Ideally, I want to brain storm how I help the individuals at events police themselves.

I acknowledge that I will probably have to confront and talk to such people. I’ just looking for a non-threatening way to do that. By “non-threatening” I mean more to the other people gathered then anyone else.

So far I’m not coming up with anything more tactful then cuffing people upside the head ^_^;;


Good luck. You've bitten off quite a bit... as someone who has made that exact SAME bite... contact me off list and I'll give you some stuff to avoid.

Elise

[Rhianna813]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and input. I suppose I should really explain more of where I’m coming from. I’m in the process of putting together a pagan organization for my area. Unfortunately, my area has a LOT of bad blood. So the mandate of the new organization is to provide a safe, sane place where bad mouthing of others will not be tolerated.

So yes, I will be the organizer/facilitator of those and other events. Thus it will be my responsibility to make sure everyone behaves. What I’m having trouble with is that I don’t’ WANT to play the heavy. I don’t want to have to walk around with a big stick whacking the bad little boys and girls. Ideally, I want to brain storm how I help the individuals at events police themselves.

I acknowledge that I will probably have to confront and talk to such people. I’ just looking for a non-threatening way to do that. By “non-threatening” I mean more to the other people gathered then anyone else.

So far I’m not coming up with anything more tactful then cuffing people upside the head ^_^;;

I belong to a Pagan women's group in Oregon. The organization is run by a small committee of decision makers who decide by consenus. The group offers free (donations accepted) public rituals which are advertised on a yahoo list, word of mouth and through certain businesses. Some of the rituals are women only and some are open to men, women and children. Ya never know who might show up.

This group also hosts a semi private women only Full Moon circle, plus other educational and volunteer events. I am a regular attendee of the full moon circle but I have found some challenges.... Pretty much when the circle opens to new women each year you never know who might show up. Sometimes women whom I am acquainted enough to know their energy and/or personality bothers me. So I had to make the decision to walk away from something really important to me or deal with my feelings towards these people *and* avoid bad mouthing them. I decided to rise to the challenge and stick with the Moon group. One woman I was able to better learn to understand and the other.... well she just never came back.

One thing this group does is promote Mediation and they will use group funds to send committe members to a class about mediation and conflict resolution. If a problem between two group members arises (either a one time large issue or a persistent issue) they will suggest mediation to resolve it. And wow this can really out the behaviours and motivations of those involved. Folks on the sly will probably avoid entering a mediation type atomosphere and just disappear. Folks who just have issues (emotional, mental, social) may gain better understanding or be asked to make needed changes to continue to attend functions. It's in the right of the group to dismiss those who are truly disruptive or ill intended.

Another tactic is to make the ettitquette for Circle or meeting known to all present. And be specific. We actually had to outline at one point that cell phones were not allowed in circle... to a mom and her teen who have been in the group for sometime. But they honestly lack a lot of common sense sometimes.

Also specificly related to sacred space it's sometimes very helpful to set the tone by telling attendees that they are "in sacred space and to respect and regard everyone in circle as an extension of the sacred. To put aside the judgements, issues and personal differences of the mundane world". Like "namaste" when I am in my place that is one with god and you are in your place that is one with god, we are one. And it can be helpful to have "vibe watchers" in ritual - just friends who are good seeing when someone seems upset, confused, in over their heads or disruptive.

As far as up to no good preditor types, feel free to spread the word as needed. Sticking with facts or your personal experiences are best. Completely bad mouthing or making drama will only look poorly on you. These types do tend to shot themselves in the foot in no time, but there will always be people who are attracted to them. Not everyone is on the same part of the path at the same time.

Great thread and I love this forum..... what took us so long to create it? :cheers:

[Vigdisdotter]

In that case, I would try and precede everything with some sort of disclaimer

That is positively brilliant! Now I'm feeling supremely stupid for not having thought of it earlier ^_^;;

I'm currently working on a pamphlet for the new group and I've just put a disclaimer on the back page. Thanks!

[Vigdisdotter]

I'm glad you like the forum :) Now if only I can get my life in order and do a better job as the guide ^_^;;


Sticking with facts or your personal experiences are best. Completely bad mouthing or making drama will only look poorly on you.

<NODNOD!>

Exactly. I've decided that I'm going to make a big deal of mentioning to people the difference between Gossipping and Airing Problems.

Otherwise i suspect that people will thing they would NEVER say anything remotely negative, which wouldn't be healthy in itself.

[Lunacie]

Our group recently reformed after being suddenly abandoned by our leader. As the person with the most knowledge and experience I had to step up in order to keep the group from breaking up. Everyone agreed that they wanted to keep the group together and that I would be a good leader. We'll see about that. ;)

We also agreed that this would be a good time to open the group to a few new members, and a group of three contacted us. One of the women belonged to a group that went through a very bad destruction and then got burned trying to join a new group after that. So she is understandably cautious in checking out our group. But it is making her so prickly that no one is thrilled with the idea of having her around.

I want to give her a fair shake before telling her that she's not welcome, but she's making it very hard. I really think she needs to take more time to get over what happened in the past so she doesn't put those negative expectation onto our group, but I don't quite know how to tell her that.

I think this is a great idea for a forum, and the timing is really great for me as the new leader of an eclectic group. :woot:

[Rasari]

I'll be perfectly blunt on the first example.

If this woman is part of your community. And others have noticed this issue too. And you have students or know of her students who can write a statement as to her actions and their experiences with her...

It should be discussed by the community and addressed. Screw the "to each their own" turn a blind eye tripe promoted by many in the pagan community. Someone who is abusing (be it emotional or physical) and preying on newcomers and their students NEEDS to be addressed, removed and outed. Rather than the community simply following up behind her and picking up the pieces of her actions.

To be quite frank. If I were a new comer who got involved with a community, which it sounds as though you are all part of... And they KNEW this teacher was trouble... And I got involved with the teacher and was placed into some sort of traumatic or emotionally distressing situation or trouble... And was never warned of the potential threat... And then found out the community KNEW...

I'd not only lose trust in the teacher, but instead would end up developing distrust in the community as a whole.

Why is it common to find predators like that? Because the Pagan communities are often afraid to do anything about them. Fearing they'll be marked as close minded, disrespectful, unenlightened or intolerant for being honest and addressing the issue. And its an issue that NEEDS to be addressed.

As to the second issue... Is she taking any medication for being bi-polar. I have quite a few Bi-polar friends. Dated two guys that were. And in most cases... They REALLY need to take the medication or actively work on a way to try and control or cope with their swings... Which is possible. Sometimes, it takes someone to "smack" (not literally) them back to reasonable behavior. One ex was great one moment and actually violent and rather sadistic the next. Granted, regardless of what his shrink said, I think there was more to the issue than just being bipolar.

For one friend, who is OUTRAGIOUSLY tempermental due to being bipolar. One minute laughing, the next throwing a tantrum and destroying things... I can get her to settle back down by verbally ripping through her tirade by raising my voice and reprimanding her. This isn't something that would work for everyone. But for her, its the only way to calm her back down, since she refuses to take her prescriptions. (Not because she doesn't like the effects, but rather she thinks she has a better excuse for her already ridiculous behavior if she isn't medicated.) She is an exceptionally high maintenance friend and our friendship takes A LOT of work and patience to maintain and work out. But its worth it!

And obviously, thats not suited to the situation of the woman in your group. So talk to her more. Watch her behavior and mannerisms. At what point does she become problematic? What calms her? What keeps her attention and what subjects over-excite her? So on and so forth.

A's swings, for example, are often triggered by anything that reminds her of an emotionally distressing situation, or by stress in general, or embaressment or discomfort. By identifying these, you can try to curb her behavior and energy a bit to help her make more benefit of the group and to help the group benefit from her. Because if its causing an issue for the group, its causing an issue for her as well. Even if not aware of it.