Hawks And Such

[LunaWolfe]

Today on my way to my math class I was walking by a nature center area. I discovered about three people standing there staring at the tree, so naturally I look. Sitting there is this huge, and very beautiful, hawk. This is the second one on campus I've seen up close, and they keep popping up everywhere in my life right now.

Does anyone know what the significance of this could be? I know I have a hawk as one of my animal spirit guides/totems, but it usually isn't this prevalent in my life.

Has this sort of thing happened to anyone else?

[~Owl~]

I feel your question is probably better suited here, hon.

Therefore I've moved your thread to the D/D forum.

You should probably get some answers here.
As far as I can see, if the Hawk is a spirt Totem of yours, it could be a message of some kind.

What does Hawk represent to you? I would ponder on this.

Also, I'll see if I can find the link to the Shaman Animal Spirts Guide, a VERY good site on Totems, and their signifigance.

Edit:

Ooops...just noticed you mentioned the Magical Creatures subforum..I forgot about that one.

You're right.

Well, let's keep it here for now, and I think Hope and TWM can copy this thread as well as move it, I'm not sure. But if you'd rather have it in the subforum, just ask Hope or TWM to move it for you. I tried, but realized I can only moderate the Magic and Rituals forum.

[Tanya]

since DDT was banned, hawk populations are on the up swing. many like to nest in cliffs and now use office buildings as substitutes...

I would say it means a special blessing on you.... and should make you happy.

[Hope]

Hawk is often a messenger (in many traditions) and tells you to look closely at something -- think of how the hawk flies high above and then swoops in.

BUT can also be a message to step back and look at the bigger picture, not zero in on just the one thing.

love
t

[TheWomanMonster]

we've had a lot of discussion about animal symbols, totems and messengers in here, this should be a good place for this thread.

what did you feel when you saw the hawk?
anything come immediately to mind?


if the hawk has been previously identified as a totem, see if you can note any similarities between the last circumstance you were visited and this one.
:)

[~Owl~]

Here is the link I spoke of. You should find some interesting info on Hawk there. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4076/index1.html

[LunaWolfe]

Thank you all!

[HedwigHarfang]

I would say - based on a quick analysis - that you are a wolf spirit with a fox totem ;) and are looking to complete your "triangle" of three permanent totems in order to develop further as a human being. Hawk is a good way of seeing the devil in the detail, but be careful - experiment for a while - because hawks and falcons often end up having difficulty just accepting information they are told psychically and feeling that they have to follow it up consciously. Louise has a kestrel totem and trying to convince her of anything she can't sense or feel with her five physical senses was a nightmare before she woke up completely to clairvoyant/spiritual sight. People took advantage of that for a long time and although she is painstakingly detailed in her work she couldn't grasp the need to trust her subconscious knowledge as much as she trusted her conscious knowledge; particularly last year (2006) when she had multiple visions but kept trying to rationalise them in the face of hostility to their meanings to other people. The angels sent her an utter blessing - a live vision through her TV set of future political action - and she tried later on to downplay it as just a trick of the light; and she was so shocked she switched it off before her then boyfriend saw it and began to poke fun at the person concerned.

So if you take hawk's "medicine", be prepared to become more rational at the expense of utter trust in the supernatural and irrational. It may actually complement wolf and fox, who rely more on their senses of scent and "feelings" about situations and can actually be too quick to pounce on their prey without Hawk's reserve and almost cunning display of patience and reliance on sight alone as a cue for action. You are still, I feel, at the stage where you can choose and discard animal "medicine" if you find it lacking; but as I said, complimenting your keen sense of smell and predilection for jumping into situations without control means Hawk - what kind? different kinds, like Kite, Harris, Harrier, and Sparrow-, have their own temperaments, though I wouldn't take Sparrowhawk as they are evil birds and dare I say it would just intensify your foxy tendencies towards rapaciousness - can help with holding back until you have a concrete reason to take the great leap of trust into the unknown. Louise's prudence as a kestrel can help her keep quiet and humble but she will need her crow's spontaneity in time if she is going to really prosper in politics otherwise she will be overtaken by other louder and less academically minded animals...luckily she has a good mentor in my snowy owl :):}. As a quickie reading I get II Swords - meaning this is possibly the balance you need to go on into your future evolution as human being and spirit.

[1111]

Two caught my eye Saturday while driving and I had to wonder what they wanted me to know. They flew past me and then landed right in the middle of a very busy expressway and at the airport, too.

I found this:

http://morningstar.netfirms.com/hawktotem.html

http://www.betterliving.co.nz/content/theFamily/new-age/Totem-Animal-Hawk.aspx

Found it interesting.

1111

[Lupabitch]

Sometimes a hawk is just a hawk. In addition to the point that was made about DDT, I'd add that hawks are territorial, and chances are that your campus has become home to a solitary hawk or perhaps a mated pair.

If you really feel like Hawk has something to say, your best bet is to talk to hir personally. I generally use the popular guided meditation (you can find the version I use at http://therioshamanism.com/2007/09/28/more-about-animal-totems/). Instead of going down to see what totem appears, go down with the specific intent of talking to Hawk. It may be that you just happen to be blessed to have hawks near you, rather than any sort of special message from Hawk.

[HedwigHarfang]

Sometimes a hawk is just a hawk. In addition to the point that was made about DDT, I'd add that hawks are territorial, and chances are that your campus has become home to a solitary hawk or perhaps a mated pair.

Everything has a message, including repeated symbols. Learning to read signs and omens is like learning to read the media - you have to be aware of what is really going on "as above, so below". The proliferations of sighting a hawk are just like a repeated card coming up in a tarot spread - what matters is how you perceive the bird, not just its own reason to be there.

[LunaWolfe]

I know it isn't just because there's a lot of hawks. I've also seen them in dreams, mediations, and in incense smoke when with a friend.

I'll try a guided mediation.

[Lupabitch]

Everything has a message, including repeated symbols. Learning to read signs and omens is like learning to read the media - you have to be aware of what is really going on "as above, so below". The proliferations of sighting a hawk are just like a repeated card coming up in a tarot spread - what matters is how you perceive the bird, not just its own reason to be there.

I respectfully disagree. I am a firm proponent of Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is the most likely.

I experimented with omens by counting crows for several months when I worked in a rural area with a significant crow population. I used the "One's sorrow, two's birth" etc. rhyme, or at least a variation thereof. I found, over time, that very rarely did anything significant occur in my life in conjunction with a sighting. Granted, if I looked really, really hard I might find something--"A friend of a friend on Livejournal had a baby--that must explain those three crows I saw last month!" However, I think it's too easy to get bogged down in looking for signs, rather than simply looking at one's life and the patterns that are presently there.

I am especially cautious of people determining their totems by what animals they see the most, whether in person or in symbols. We have a tendency to see what we want to see, even if it isn't conscious. A good example--a few years ago, someone I was dating was riding down the highway with me in Pennsylvania where we both lived at the time. I was from Missouri, and she was from New York. I saw a Missouri plate on a car, and remarked "I see more Missouri plates here than any other out of state plate". She replied, "That's funny, I see more New York plates than any other". It's the same thing that sometimes causes people to ignore small, less impressive totems like Mouse or Rabbit because they subconsciously tell themselves that Cougar or Bear has to be their totem--so when they walk through a mall and see the nature store, they notice the Bear or Cougar statues before the Mice and Rabbits in the stuffed toy aisle. Plus what if your totem isn't even an animal native to your area?

I'm not saying that animals can never be omens, and that people can never get messages from totems via physical animals. But in my experience, most sightings of animals are just happenstance--otherwise, why don't people make more of a big deal out of seeing a cloud of gnats, or a bunch of flies?

However, this is my experience, and yours may vary. Maybe it's all a matter of what the individual deems to be important.

[HedwigHarfang]

I respectfully disagree. I am a firm proponent of Occam's Razor: the simplest answer is the most likely.

Same here.


I experimented with omens by counting crows for several months when I worked in a rural area with a significant crow population. I used the "One's sorrow, two's birth" etc. rhyme, or at least a variation thereof. I found, over time, that very rarely did anything significant occur in my life in conjunction with a sighting. Granted, if I looked really, really hard I might find something--"A friend of a friend on Livejournal had a baby--that must explain those three crows I saw last month!" However, I think it's too easy to get bogged down in looking for signs, rather than simply looking at one's life and the patterns that are presently there.

Agree totally. Using crows or other birds as specific oracles is good, but getting paranoid about it is silly.


I am especially cautious of people determining their totems by what animals they see the most, whether in person or in symbols.

Totems are the animals you identify with the most, either in spirit or in consciousness. Louise and I know our three totems and what one should be asking here is "what animal do I most resemble?" rather than "what animal am I seeing most of?". Totems come to us mostly in dreams or meditations or in the animal we identify with most on-screen - rarely do I see anyone using an animal in an internet name or signature graphic that doesn't correspond to one of their totems; Lupa- is a root word for wolf and thus I can tell one of your totems is a wolf; Louise used crows as a signature bird long before she realised her main power animal was crow. Don't discount the value of seeing one particular animal over a long period of time, though, because noticing it depends largely on subconscious stimulus and your subconscious can tell you more about your totems than you realise. People on eBay who don't take an interest in these things at all still call themselves after animals - FoxyDave, catscatscats and Hedgehogsunited...all suggest that the person identifies with the animal, likes them, and so might have them as a totem.


We have a tendency to see what we want to see, even if it isn't conscious. A good example--a few years ago, someone I was dating was riding down the highway with me in Pennsylvania where we both lived at the time. I was from Missouri, and she was from New York. I saw a Missouri plate on a car, and remarked "I see more Missouri plates here than any other out of state plate". She replied, "That's funny, I see more New York plates than any other". It's the same thing that sometimes causes people to ignore small, less impressive totems like Mouse or Rabbit because they subconsciously tell themselves that Cougar or Bear has to be their totem--so when they walk through a mall and see the nature store, they notice the Bear or Cougar statues before the Mice and Rabbits in the stuffed toy aisle. Plus what if your totem isn't even an animal native to your area?

A good point. People are seeing what they want to see consciously rather than subconsciously but even then if they consciously want to have the strength of a bear or the stealth of a cougar, then they would subconsciously or spiritually seek this animal out for guidance (particularly if they are a small and timorous animal like a mouse or a rabbit). As for being native to the area, good point; Europeans are often European animals, Americans American animals (even if they come from European stock) and so on. This probably has a lot to do with cultural affinities - Louise and I are snowy owl/seagull/magpie and crow/kestrel/magpie and thoroughly European spirits; whereas her sister is woodpigeon alone but has taken albatross because she is of South American spiritual descent and after being killed as an Argentinian soldier in the Falklands War migrated continents to Britain; she plans to go on to Africa after this life and has been drawn towards African animals as a third totem. So again it is a subconscious thing based on the spiritual journey over many lives rather than just one.


I'm not saying that animals can never be omens, and that people can never get messages from totems via physical animals. But in my experience, most sightings of animals are just happenstance--otherwise, why don't people make more of a big deal out of seeing a cloud of gnats, or a bunch of flies?

Some people take unusual sightings to be omens (like crows and rooks and magpies all in the back garden, because they are field and woodland birds rather than garden residents) or if the bird flies up to them and pesters them then they see it perhaps as a sign of some sort. You have to go on gut feelings rather than what you can rationalise it as.


However, this is my experience, and yours may vary. Maybe it's all a matter of what the individual deems to be important.

Long live diversity. People react a lot more instinctively if they use their subconscious reflex or reaction to the sighting of a bird at a particular time rather than dismissing it as coincidence or natural causes. Asking for a definite sign is probably the way to go about it.

[Lupabitch]

Same here.
<snip>

Totems are the animals you identify with the most, either in spirit or in consciousness. Louise and I know our three totems and what one should be asking here is "what animal do I most resemble?" rather than "what animal am I seeing most of?". Totems come to us mostly in dreams or meditations or in the animal we identify with most on-screen - rarely do I see anyone using an animal in an internet name or signature graphic that doesn't correspond to one of their totems; Lupa- is a root word for wolf and thus I can tell one of your totems is a wolf; Louise used crows as a signature bird long before she realised her main power animal was crow. Don't discount the value of seeing one particular animal over a long period of time, though, because noticing it depends largely on subconscious stimulus and your subconscious can tell you more about your totems than you realise. People on eBay who don't take an interest in these things at all still call themselves after animals - FoxyDave, catscatscats and Hedgehogsunited...all suggest that the person identifies with the animal, likes them, and so might have them as a totem.

Aha. I think there's one thing to keep in mind--we have different perspectives on what constitutes a totem, and how one determines its place in our lives. Not better, not worse, just different :) We should talk sometime! I like trading notes.

See, I tend to be a little more cautious about assuming things about people, especially if I don't know them well. I make it pretty darn obvious that Wolf is my primary totem. However, some people have "stealth" totems, so to speak--they don;t talk about them (or perhaps don't even know about them). And then some people more openly advertise their favorite animals rather than their totems. ANd I've seen people completely ignore their totems in favor of their favorite animals, which may have absolutely no connection to them whatsoever.

OTOH, some people just make it entirely too easy to figure out ;)



A good point. People are seeing what they want to see consciously rather than subconsciously but even then if they consciously want to have the strength of a bear or the stealth of a cougar, then they would subconsciously or spiritually seek this animal out for guidance (particularly if they are a small and timorous animal like a mouse or a rabbit). As for being native to the area, good point; Europeans are often European animals, Americans American animals (even if they come from European stock) and so on. This probably has a lot to do with cultural affinities - Louise and I are snowy owl/seagull/magpie and crow/kestrel/magpie and thoroughly European spirits; whereas her sister is woodpigeon alone but has taken albatross because she is of South American spiritual descent and after being killed as an Argentinian soldier in the Falklands War migrated continents to Britain; she plans to go on to Africa after this life and has been drawn towards African animals as a third totem. So again it is a subconscious thing based on the spiritual journey over many lives rather than just one.

I wonder what it says about me that I'm drawn to American and European paleolithic megafauna, then?

I think a lot of people do have totems that are native to where they are or want to be. OTOH, I've also seen situations where people have totems that are in entirely different areas of the world. Another thing to consider with me, just FYI, is that when I speak of totems, I don't just speak of primary totems (what's considered "your" totem, so to speak) but also secondary totems, which come in to your life for a specific time of their own volition, and tertiary totems, which we may approach for help on our own. I don't always distinguish among the three when talking about totems. So I may refer to people consciously seeking out specific totems, native and otherwise, for help; for example, I've worked with numerous totems that aren't "my" totems, but which have agreed to help me with specific things, or that I have aided with things they need. In that case I'm generally talking about tertiaries.




Some people take unusual sightings to be omens (like crows and rooks and magpies all in the back garden, because they are field and woodland birds rather than garden residents) or if the bird flies up to them and pesters them then they see it perhaps as a sign of some sort. You have to go on gut feelings rather than what you can rationalise it as.

Long live diversity. People react a lot more instinctively if they use their subconscious reflex or reaction to the sighting of a bird at a particular time rather than dismissing it as coincidence or natural causes. Asking for a definite sign is probably the way to go about it.

Sometimes things just whap you in the face and there's no doubt what's going on. My general rule is that if you have to ask, it's best to go directly to the source. I think a balanced approach is good.

[HedwigHarfang]

Lupa - you make a lot of sense and I understand your ideas a lot. There's no need to argue with your post at all. Perhaps we differ on a few things but I'm sorry if I came across as a bit rude.

I see spirits in people and can see their totems and I drive people wild in private by totem-spotting on TV, so it's really just me. I can see things from photographs in the physiognomy of people (I had to email someone about their darling little first-life human with a barred wol spirit - she was just too cute and I can see the owl in someone straight off!) and when I meet people privately and explain to them what is going on with me away from the cameras I need to explain it in terms of animal spirits. As you quite rightly point out a lot of people have no idea what their totems are and often no need to inquire. But having told people my nickname in politics is "Owlbastard" and not "Dracula", for example, and that I call the current Leader of the Opposition "Foxy" or "Volpone" (Big Fox - the reference is to a play by Jonson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volpone)) I need to clarify what I mean.

It's important to me that people understand that there is a gradual evolution as a human goes through their spiritual development - they progress from animal spirit incarnated in a human body, acquire totems over nine lives until they have three, which then merge to become one particular spirit - an inner self and then a higher self after passing the spiritual challenge of being the sum of your parts but not being able to transcend them.

After that they have one higher self and three permanent animal guides (often rather more stupid than those guides given to nurse animal spirits through their initial development as human beings - my Hedwig, hence the screenname, is fond of calling me "Bad owl!" all the time if I use my magpie or seagull guides too much - plus the nine directions to balance them out during subsequent lives. This to me is fact rather than lore because I can see things psychically and understand that the people who set down the "canon" lore about directions were at that point in their development as a spiritual being where they had all nine directions filled. Then after a while you begin to settle down, having your original three and one or two extras from time to time as you need them. Louise is learning from Tawny Owl at the moment, mainly how to balance the rhythm of night and day to make sure she doesn't oversleep in the mornings or stay up too late at night. I know I can talk, I am a real night owl on here at gone 4 am, but she has difficulty getting back into balance whereas I can doze for a while and get up quicker than she can after two or three years unemployed - and also to let go of issues that have been bugging her for a long time since she moved in with me - she needs to prepare for going public ASAP.

Feel free to PM me. This isn't written down anywhere as a concrete system but I think it is going to be a lot clearer in a few years time because of what is going on in this country at the moment and what is inexplicable in public life now over here at least - at the very least - without referring to some kind of psi or spiritualist ideas.

[Lupabitch]

Lupa - you make a lot of sense and I understand your ideas a lot. There's no need to argue with your post at all. Perhaps we differ on a few things but I'm sorry if I came across as a bit rude.

Likewise. I can occasionally be a bit overopinionated and bullheaded.

I'm going to PM you about the rest--this is really fascinating!