Traditional Witchcraft

[RayneStorm]

So I'm wanting to learn about Traditional Witchcraft. The only thing I've found so far is British Traditional Witchcraft and it looks interesting! I want to learn more about it.

I guess my questions so far are, what is it? What's it all about? How do I go about learning more about it? Are there ppl willing to teach it online (havent found anything in my area, even on WitchVox). There doesnt seem to be all that much info on the net (that I've found) or maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, I dunno. I'm sure there are tons more questions that I'll have at a later time when I start learning more.

Is there anyone on here that can help me out? Are there any Trad Witches on here? Where do I start? What can I do?

Thanks
Rayne

[Meadhbh]

I don't know all that much about british traditional witchraft, but I know when it comes to the Appalachian version that it is usally handed down though the family. There are people out there willing to teach other people though. But they can be hard to find. The older forms of witchcraft are a little over shadowed by things like wicca. A good way to look up information as well is to look at the folk beliefs and celebrations of an area. Because sometimes they can help you out.

[Toby Stimpson]

You have to ask yourself first... what IS Traditional Witchcraft? I mean... there are witchcraft forms found all over Europe... each one slightly different from the last. What would be classed as Traditional Witchcraft... when the mere word is not describing a single cultural phenomenon but a whole host of practices from around the world.

[Juniper138]

There are many different kinds of Traditional Witchcraft, as has been mentioned. There is little public info out there, it still is mostly a tradition that is handed down from on person to another.

here is a couple of link to help get you started though:

http://www.traditionalwitch.net/

http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/

http://www.shadowdrake.com/index.php



I may have more kicking around, but on my home computer. I will post more later.

[RayneStorm]

Thanks for the sites! I'm already on the traditionalwitch.net and am hoping for a full membership soon but that prbly wont happen until next month (or when they get to know me better, whichever one comes first) and I've just signed up to other one traditionalwitchcraft.net membership pending... I'll check out that other site too.

Thanks
Rayne

[Nitefalle]

Great links, Juniper, thanks! I registered at Traditional Witchcraft - beautiful web design there. Shadow Drake looks very interesting, as well. The first link, however (traditionalwitch.net)....I don't know, for some reason it sets off something in my head that tells me not to bother.

[RayneStorm]

The sites traditionalwitchcraft and shadowdrake seem to be the same when you click to see the forums....

[Philosophia]

Here is the google directory of traditional witchcraft:

http://www.google.com/Top/Society/Religion_and_Spirituality/Pagan/Traditional_Witchcraft/

Here are some yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traditional_Witchcraft/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TraditionalWitchcraft/

This is a brilliant essay on this topic: http://www.hedgewytchery.com/craft.html

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/witchcraft/traditional-witchcraft-wicca.htm

[David19]

Traditional Witchcraft can also refer to Cochrane and other derived or similar traditions, so you may want to look into these key figures, Robert Cochrane/Roy Bowers (same person, just Robert Cochrane wasn't his real name), Joseph Wilson, Dave and Anne Finnin, Andrew Chumbley, Evan John Jones, and Doreen Valiente, when she was working with Robert Cochrane.

Here are some key terms: 1734 tradition, Clan of Tubal Cain, Sabbatic witchcraft, etc.

Here are some interesting links:

The Ancient Keltic Church (http://members.aol.com/akcroebuck/)

Clan of Tubal Cain (http://members.aol.com/CTubalCain/)

Tubal Cain (http://www.c
yberwitch.com/Wychwood/Temple/tubalCain.htm) - a poem.

Cyberwitch (http://www.cyberwitch.com/wychwood/hallway.htm) - good site with traditional witchcraft info.

1734 Tradition (http://www.1734-witchcraft.org/) - started by Joseph Wilson, a student of Robert Cochrane's.

Crooked Path (http://www.crookedpath.org/)

Overview of traditions (http://www.homecircle.info/Atraditions.html)

Briar-rose (http://www.briar-rose.org/)

Toteg Tribe (http://www.toteg.org/) - another group founded, or co-founded, by Joseph Wilson.

Book list (http://www.the-cauldron.fsnet.co.uk/book_list.htm) - some traditional witch related books (although take them with some salt).

The Roebuck Tradition (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usca&c=trads&id=3380) - Witchvox article.

1734 Tradition Witchvox article (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usco&c=trads&id=3356)

Robert Cochrane info (http://www.controverscial.com/Robert%20Cochrane.htm)

Explore Traditional Witchcraft by Peter Paddon, an amazon.com listimania (http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/1LBK3WLVXWZL4)

'The Robert Cochrane Letters: An Insight into Modern Traditional Witchcraft' by Robert Cochrane and Evan Jones (http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Cochrane-Letters-Traditional-Witchcraft/dp/1861632215)

You may also want to look into some books by Nigel Jackson, although again take him with some salt, as apparantly he writes for the pop crowd, and his book 'Call of the Horned Piper' (http://www.amazon.com/Horned-Piper-Nigel-Aldcroft-Jackson/dp/1898307091/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196127662&sr=1-1) was apparantly dictated by Evan John Jones, and Nigel Jackson has admitted, again apparantly, that even he doesn't understand what he actually wrote, but still, they might have some value.


Also, Lolair has a class here at Mystic wicks on different paths with some very good info on Traditional Witchcraft, Sabbatic witchcraft, Folk witchcraft, Feri witchcraft, etc. Here's a link (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=390) - each posts has links to more articles and books for you to find out more.

Andrew Chumbley: Artist and Scribe (http://www.caduceusbooks.com/occultartgallery/cultus/Andrew-Chumbley/andrewchumbleyas.html)

Andrew Chumbley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_D._Chumbley)

Andrew Chumbley article (http://www.omnimancy.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=2380&sid=9916dbc5830b31f363036740d8b11527)

Livejournal Andrew Chumbley/Sabbatic witchcraft (http://synesis.livejournal.com/96479.html)

Andrew Chumbley thread at Abrahadabra (http://forums.abrahadabra.com/showthread.php?t=1264)

Carpe Noctem (http://community-2.webtv.net/Perdurabo777/CarpeNoctem0/)

Forum on the crookedpath for Sabbatic witchcraft (http://www.crookedpath.org/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=6&CAT_ID=3&Forum_Title=Sabbatic+Witchcraft)

Book list (http://www.ixaxaar.com/sabbatic2.html) - some may be useful.

Another booklist (http://www.ixaxaar.com/sabbatic.html)

Chaos Static (http://www.chaostatic.com/paradigm/writings/luciferian-craft.php)

Traditional Witchcraft Forums (http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/)

'Magick and Witchcraft' - amazon.com listimania (http://www.amazon.com/Magick-and-Witchcraft/lm/37FUFYW5VXL8B)

Cultus Sabbati
(http://www.caduceusbooks.com/occultartgallery/cultus/cultus.html)

'What is the Traditional Craft?' by Andrew Chumbley (http://web.archive.org/web/20050910032011/http://www.harvestmoon.net/library/chumbley/chumbley.html)

Sabbatic witchcraft lesson by Lolair (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=160526) - has a lot of good info, book recommendations and articles.

'Witchcraft: A Tradition Renewed' by Doreen Valiente and Evan John Jones (http://www.amazon.com/Witchcraft-Tradition-Renewed-Doreen-Valiente/dp/0919345611) - very good book, I'd recommend it.

Also, if you're interested in this, you may want to get 'The White Goddess' by Robert Graves and Grevel Lindop (http://www.amazon.com/White-Goddess-Graves-Robert-Selections/dp/1857542487/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196127891&sr=1-1), not for "history", but for the poetry, from what I've picked up and been told, you need to have an understanding of how things are poetically said, and some of the riddles that Robert Cochrane gave (like 1734, which is the name of a Goddess, among other things and 1737, which is the name of a God, among other things) would most likely need poetry to help solve them, again probably among other skills.

Hope this helps, and if I can think of some more, I'll post them.

[Semjaza]

So I'm wanting to learn about Traditional Witchcraft. The only thing I've found so far is British Traditional Witchcraft and it looks interesting! I want to learn more about it.



Hey,

Just a random note: British Traditional Witchcraft (or BTW) is commonly used to refer to forms of Wicca derived from Gardner (ie. Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Mohsian, Central Valley, some Blue Star, etc). For info on these, your best bet is to join the Yahoo! group Amber and Jet to try and find a coven.

Non- or Pre- Gardnerian witchcraft (Traditional Witchcraft, which also includes Traditional Initiatory Witchcraft) usually deals with Robert Cochrane's work, but also can include Andrew Chumbley's stuff and many others. Hedgewytchery.com is the best site for info, and Meadows of Elfhame is good too. What a list of links, David! :)

Hope this clarifies (rather than muddies) things a bit.

Cheers,

Semjaza

[David19]

Hey,

Just a random note: British Traditional Witchcraft (or BTW) is commonly used to refer to forms of Wicca derived from Gardner (ie. Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Mohsian, Central Valley, some Blue Star, etc). For info on these, your best bet is to join the Yahoo! group Amber and Jet to try and find a coven.

Non- or Pre- Gardnerian witchcraft (Traditional Witchcraft, which also includes Traditional Initiatory Witchcraft) usually deals with Robert Cochrane's work, but also can include Andrew Chumbley's stuff and many others. Hedgewytchery.com is the best site for info, and Meadows of Elfhame is good too. What a list of links, David! :)

Hope this clarifies (rather than muddies) things a bit.

Cheers,

Semjaza

Glad you like the links :).

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I don't know if what I'm apart of could be considered traditional witchcraft. I'm more than half German, Pennsylvania Dutch, and I have several folk healers in the family closet (along with several skeletons that my Aunt forgot to bury, lol). The practice of Pow-Wow was limited only to men so I think that I'm the first female to actual attempt to train myself in doing the Lord's work (Pow-Wow's use God, Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Ghost in their practices and they are devote Christians). Like one person said each tradition is different.

It's great that you signed up and I hope that your training goes well.

[TuathaSidhe]

Great links, Juniper, thanks! I registered at Traditional Witchcraft - beautiful web design there. Shadow Drake looks very interesting, as well. The first link, however (traditionalwitch.net)....I don't know, for some reason it sets off something in my head that tells me not to bother.

Its actually a really good site and lots of information. They don't put up with BS though and if you consider yourself a Wiccan, do.not.go.there. lol, they will not accept you to begin with and if you post as a guest and let them know you are Wiccan, you wont like what you get. Heh.

Trad. Witchcraft is not a religion, its a way of life. You couldn't call it a culture as you are likely not going to find any Trad. Witches who all practices the same. No two are alike at all and alot of information is usually passed down in families or person/person.

There is a good article on one Trad. Witches POV on Trad. Witchcraft. http://www.traditionalwitch.net/forums/topic/2625-traditional-craft-by-startella/

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Totally agree. The problem with Wiccans, and I hope that I don't get a infraction, is that they believe that Wicca is the same as witchcraft. Give me a break! Witchcraft was around during Greek times, look at Circe and Media. They were witches, not stinking Wiccans. Oh I signs up for Traditional Witch and I can't wait to start posting and getting some dang good information. I need to get away from the Wicca fluff.

Note: I hope that I got Jason's wife's name right. I hate getting names wrong.

[herbal_legends]

I'm also a member of traditionalwitch.net.....under the same username. Though I don't go on there as often.
Forewarning, they don't like seeing the word "Wicca" on their site at all.....comparing and contrasting it is even looked down upon.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Hay, Herbal, why do you think I signed up? I want to be around people that don't use the word Wicca. I just hope that my putting down Wiccan Together and Paganspace isn't going to hurt my chances of joining.

[TuathaSidhe]

I dont think it will, it shouldn't at least.

And what is wrong with paganspace? :P I like it

[Sekhmet Soul30]

There's nothing wrong with paganspace, I've got several groups on that sight. Just making a worried comment, that's all. I hope I do get a chance to be on.

One question: Can I start posting or do I have to wait to be approved? If I've read this on their site then I forgot.

[TuathaSidhe]

Some areas are open to guests to post in and some are closed.

[kagekarasu]

I'm also on the site(O_o). It is a great information source and a nice place to get away from the fluff.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

True, oh so true, but the thing that I'm learning here is that we can all say that we're not Wiccans but witches and start pointing out those reason and then the Wiccans will come and start attacking us. It happened on another thread. Everyone was talking about why their witches and not Wiccans and I got accused of bashing Wiccans by Wiccans. I guess they forgot to read that Witchcraft isn't the same as Wicca.

Of course that could only be my view.

[Caitlin.ann]

True, oh so true, but the thing that I'm learning here is that we can all say that we're not Wiccans but witches and start pointing out those reason and then the Wiccans will come and start attacking us. It happened on another thread. Everyone was talking about why their witches and not Wiccans and I got accused of bashing Wiccans by Wiccans. I guess they forgot to read that Witchcraft isn't the same as Wicca.

Of course that could only be my view.

That is not what I saw and its generally frowned upon to carry drama from thread to thread.


Anyways, I'm not a witch but I aspire to be.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I wasn't doing drama I was following the thread. Others said that their witches and not Wiccans and I agreed. It just turned into a drama.

[Caitlin.ann]

Just giving you a heads up in case a mod comes in and sees and disagrees.

Anyways, when I signed up to that site I had to go through a waiting process before I could join but then lost interest and never got to the main boards, unfortunately. May have to take a peek again.

[Lilac Moon]

So, back to Traditional Witchcraft... it is my understanding the TW is an umbrella term that covers Green/ Hedge/ Kitchen Witchery..

[herbal_legends]

it is my understanding the TW is an umbrella term that covers Green/ Hedge/ Kitchen Witchery..

:uhhuhuh:

[Sekhmet Soul30]

It also covers Pow-Wow as well. However I'm thumbs up to all greeny witches and Hedgewitches. Got to love those witchy people :thumbsup::hyper:.

[kagekarasu]

So, back to Traditional Witchcraft... it is my understanding the TW is an umbrella term that covers Green/ Hedge/ Kitchen Witchery..

It's basically everything that's not neo-paganism. It's all the magic and cunning ways that came long before Gardner is the easist way to put it.

[Lilac Moon]

It's basically everything that's not neo-paganism. It's all the magic and cunning ways that came long before Gardner is the easist way to put it.


Well, can't argue with that... sounds like my cup of tea...

[Caitlin.ann]

I'm just confused. Does that include all indiginous religions and reconstructionist paths as well? Just trying to learn.

Or is it limited to witchcraft - religion only?

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I don't know if it includes the Recon's. I know that some recons you have to have a degree in language and something else to be an elder. Traditional Witchcraft is anything that was before Gardner. That would include Hedgwitch, folk magic, anything from Australia, Romania, and German magical systems. Pow-Wow is included as well because it was practiced in the New World before Gardner. I hope that I helped you out, Caitlin.ann.

[Twinkle]

I'm just confused. Does that include all indiginous religions and reconstructionist paths as well? Just trying to learn.

Or is it limited to witchcraft - religion only?


Hellenismos frowns upon Witchcraft. It would not cover my Recon path.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

Hellenismos frowns upon Witchcraft. It would not cover my Recon path.

Have you read Timothy's book "A Beginners Guide to Hellenismos? He also says that Hellenists frown upon witchcraft and consider it Hubris.

[Caitlin.ann]

Hellenismos frowns upon Witchcraft. It would not cover my Recon path.

Yeah I just didn't know how broad or narrow it was. I know many reconstructionists feel the same as you, Twinkle, so I was left wondering.

[Caitlin.ann]

I don't know if it includes the Recon's. I know that some recons you have to have a degree in language and something else to be an elder. Traditional Witchcraft is anything that was before Gardner. That would include Hedgwitch, folk magic, anything from Australia, Romania, and German magical systems. Pow-Wow is included as well because it was practiced in the New World before Gardner. I hope that I helped you out, Caitlin.ann.

It did, thank you. :)

ETA: I should add that my idea of traditional witchcraft has been that of witchcraft without religion (could be hedge, kitchen, green, etc.) and new world witchcraft and folk practices before Gardener. Just wanted to make sure that was correct.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

You would be correct. Of course Pow-Wow is a different world all together.

[kagekarasu]

I'm just confused. Does that include all indiginous religions and reconstructionist paths as well? Just trying to learn.

Or is it limited to witchcraft - religion only?

This is where it gets tricky. The thing is, witchcraft is the conscious act of focusing energy and will to achieve a desired outcome. Technically, prayer can fall under this, so it could be said that you have to know about whether or not such individuals did such and what was there overall view of witchcraft is as well if what you're doing is close to what they did. For example, you can't practice traditional Aztec magic, cause you can't sacrifice people now days. Also I could tell you about how many acts of witchcraft are practiced in every church all over the world, but since they have a negative view on witchcraft, then you would have to say that it's not tradition. However, many consider Hoodoo to be of tradition as it's a collection of all types folk magic from around the world, and some Hoodoo spells curse people using bible verses. Many Gypsy spells also do the same. It's a confusing hazy subject, so whether religion is apart of it is all apart of the tradition and the practitioner.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

This is where it gets tricky. The thing is, witchcraft is the conscious act of focusing energy and will to achieve a desired outcome. Technically, prayer can fall under this, so it could be said that you have to know about whether or not such individuals did such and what was there overall view of witchcraft is as well if what you're doing is close to what they did. For example, you can't practice traditional Aztec magic, cause you can't sacrifice people now days. Also I could tell you about how many acts of witchcraft are practiced in every church all over the world, but since they have a negative view on witchcraft, then you would have to say that it's not tradition. However, many consider Hoodoo to be of tradition as it's a collection of all types folk magic from around the world, and some Hoodoo spells curse people using bible verses. Many Gypsy spells also do the same. It's a confusing hazy subject, so whether religion is apart of it is all apart of the tradition and the practitioner.

I'll agree with this quote, I've seen what happens when a bunch of Pentecostal gets together. I received the broken nose to prove it.

[brandonc1981]

Thanks for the sites! I'm already on the traditionalwitch.net and am hoping for a full membership soon but that prbly wont happen until next month (or when they get to know me better, whichever one comes first) and I've just signed up to other one traditionalwitchcraft.net membership pending... I'll check out that other site too.

Thanks
Rayne

Yea I tried joining Tradwitchnet and there's really snobby and won't approve me. That's high end.