witch without magick?

[halfwaynowhere]

I consider myself a humanistic witch, although not necessarily a pagan. but this morning i got to thinking, i don't really practice magick anymore... i used to, and i plan on using it again, but i honestly don't think i've used it in a few years... would that still make me a witch, then? I've always defined a witch as someone who practices witchcraft... but if i'm not currently practicing, then what does that make me?

[Aidron]

I consider myself a humanistic witch, although not necessarily a pagan. but this morning i got to thinking, i don't really practice magick anymore... i used to, and i plan on using it again, but i honestly don't think i've used it in a few years... would that still make me a witch, then? I've always defined a witch as someone who practices witchcraft... but if i'm not currently practicing, then what does that make me?

No. Witches practice Witchcraft, which in some way relates to magic that reflects a European history and/or flavor.

As for what you are... still you, I suppose. You don't need to be a Witch anymore than you need to be a giraffe. ;)

[Brigid Rowan]

Hey, I dont really have a name for what I am, pagan/magickally speaking. I just am what I am. You can be part of my club "Unlabled but yet cool people". :)

[StarEyedShelly]

I agree with everyone so far. You are what you are. Even if what you are is not easily defined in one or two words. :)

[LadyWillow]

I'm going to take a different view on this. If you feel comfortable calling yourself a witch, even if you don't practice magic much anymore, then what's the harm in calling yourself a witch? I don't practice a lot of magic anymore myself, but I'm comfortable calling myself a witch, so it sticks. I just call myself whatever I feel like calling myself. And besides, it's not all about labels anyway.

[Greybird]

First off, 'witch' has about a thousand definitions. When a Wiccan says 'witch' it isn't the same thing as when a Wizard of Oz fan says 'witch', which isn't the same thing as when an New Guinea tribesman says 'witch.' Even when a Wiccan says 'witch' it means a dozen or so different things (just as Isaac Bonewits.)

Second, you can obsess about labels until you're blue in the face. People tend to label things instintively, but sometimes labels don't really fit. I spent some time a couple of years ago wondering whether I was Wiccan or not. In the end, I just decided that I was what I was, regardless of what I called myself.

[Aidron]

I'm going to take a different view on this. If you feel comfortable calling yourself a witch, even if you don't practice magic much anymore, then what's the harm in calling yourself a witch? I don't practice a lot of magic anymore myself, but I'm comfortable calling myself a witch, so it sticks. I just call myself whatever I feel like calling myself. And besides, it's not all about labels anyway.

The harm is that you're portraying yourself incorrectly. Would you go around calling yourself an astronaut if you weren't one? Think of the harm it could do to yourself and to others by incorrectly labeling yourself.

[Aidron]

First off, 'witch' has about a thousand definitions. When a Wiccan says 'witch' it isn't the same thing as when a Wizard of Oz fan says 'witch', which isn't the same thing as when an New Guinea tribesman says 'witch.' Even when a Wiccan says 'witch' it means a dozen or so different things (just as Isaac Bonewits.)

Just because everyone else is incorrect doesn't mean you should go jumping off the bridge along with 'em.


Second, you can obsess about labels until you're blue in the face. People tend to label things instintively, but sometimes labels don't really fit. I spent some time a couple of years ago wondering whether I was Wiccan or not. In the end, I just decided that I was what I was, regardless of what I called myself.

No, labels don't always fit. This one does. It fits a very specific individual. I've grown very annoyed over the years by everyone thinking they can muddy down whatever they want and still be right. You can't. And like I said, you don't need to be a witch anymore than you need to be a giraffe. You can still go on living a happy, healthy, wonderful life without ever applying an label to yourself; especially if it doesn't fit.

[LadyWillow]

The harm is that you're portraying yourself incorrectly. Would you go around calling yourself an astronaut if you weren't one? Think of the harm it could do to yourself and to others by incorrectly labeling yourself.

I disagree. Humans care too much about labels. Carrying too much about labels doesn't help you, only hinders you. The magic that I practice, can be rather simple, and that simple magic, that I do often wouldn't be what other's call magic. Therefore, it's what's comfortable for me. I don't go around boasting, "I'm a witch!" every chance I get. I don't flaunt, I just do what I do.

[EvieLee]

Perhaps it all comes down to one's own personal definition of a witch. If your definition matches your practices, then sure. If it doesn't, then why deceive yourself?

I'm in the same boat - I've practiced witchcraft in the past, and there's nothing saying I won't in the future, but right now I don't. Maybe we're casual/part-time witches - we do the job, but without the paid vacation time. :smileroll

[Jeremy Westenn]

No. Witches practice Witchcraft, which in some way relates to magic that reflects a European history and/or flavor.

As for what you are... still you, I suppose. You don't need to be a Witch anymore than you need to be a giraffe. ;)

I echo my future husband.

Unless you practice Witchcraft you can't call yourself a witch. If you don't practice ceremonial magic/ritual you can't call yourself a magician.

It's.... Just. Yeah. >_< Obvious?

- Jeremy

[Jeremy Westenn]

Just because everyone else is incorrect doesn't mean you should go jumping off the bridge along with 'em.



No, labels don't always fit. This one does. It fits a very specific individual. I've grown very annoyed over the years by everyone thinking they can muddy down whatever they want and still be right. You can't. And like I said, you don't need to be a witch anymore than you need to be a giraffe. You can still go on living a happy, healthy, wonderful life without ever applying an label to yourself; especially if it doesn't fit.

Actually I have to re-quote you here and reiterate this. Not because I'm secretly in love with the person I'm quoting but because he is absolutely 100% correct. You can't be a witch and not practice magic. You just can't. It's a very matter of fact thing.

- Jeremy

[Aidron]

I disagree. Humans care too much about labels. Carrying too much about labels doesn't help you, only hinders you. The magic that I practice, can be rather simple, and that simple magic, that I do often wouldn't be what other's call magic. Therefore, it's what's comfortable for me. I don't go around boasting, "I'm a witch!" every chance I get. I don't flaunt, I just do what I do.

Gods forbid we care about labels. It's not like they ever did anything for us besides allow us to classify and identify things within our universe so that we are able to communicate about them. Oh gods, no, how dare we care.

I never said we should carry around 45,048,284 labels. I said we should not carry around incorrect ones. It's deceptive, intentionally or otherwise, and can make people appear ignorant or stupid.

As for the type of magic you practice... I don't recall asking. As for your lack of boasting and flaunting... how is that relevant to this topic? :eyebrow:

[Aidron]

Perhaps it all comes down to one's own personal definition of a witch. If your definition matches your practices, then sure. If it doesn't, then why deceive yourself?

Personal definitions are exactly the problem. I can't go around calling myself a Satanist while I practice Christianity, yet only do so because I fear some being called Satan. It's a lie. It's deceptive. It's just inaccurate.


I'm in the same boat - I've practiced witchcraft in the past, and there's nothing saying I won't in the future, but right now I don't. Maybe we're casual/part-time witches - we do the job, but without the paid vacation time. :smileroll

How about you're just a magical practitioner? Unless you practice a specific kind of magic that is associated with the word Witch, I would not think you one. Magician could also work (one who practices magic). There are a lot of occult titles out there, yet everyone seems to want to cling to Witch when it doesn't fit.

And let me again state this since I'm sure it will be overlooked at some point: People can do and practice whatever they wish. Be the giraffe I mentioned earlier. Who cares. Be happy with yourself. Just don't lie to yourself or the rest of the world.

[Aidron]

I echo my future husband.

I'm afraid you'll have to do battle with a certain someone whose name starts with an 'F' and ends with a 'laire' whom currently holds the title as my husband. ;)

[Jeremy Westenn]

Your with someone? I didn't know that, last time we spoke I thought you were single so I figured i'd harras you a bit!

Photos of lover!

I demand photos!!!!

- Jeremy

[EvieLee]

Personal definitions are exactly the problem. I can't go around calling myself a Satanist while I practice Christianity, yet only do so because I fear some being called Satan. It's a lie. It's deceptive. It's just inaccurate...

And let me again state this since I'm sure it will be overlooked at some point: People can do and practice whatever they wish. Be the giraffe I mentioned earlier. Who cares. Be happy with yourself. Just don't lie to yourself or the rest of the world.

I think I see where I've made my mistake now - maybe I'm on a different side of the fence here and wasn't making myself entirely clear. By my reckoning there are two different uses for labels - publicly and privately. I suppose seeing as the OP was asking the question in a public forum then the "public" sense should apply, but it seemed to me that the questions were asked to apply to oneself personally. Thus, when aiming for a public label, the generally accepted definitions apply. But if the search for a label is a personal matter, then it's really no-one else's business what our labels or definitions are.

On a side note, I don't think it's about lying, to the community or oneself. That would indicate malicious intent in my mind. I can't imagine someone labelling themselves contrary to a definition on purpose. But to flaunt a label, knowing full well that the accepted public definition isn't the same as your personal one, would be obnoxious to say the least.

ETA: Looking at the OP again, the definition itself isn't in question. The question is whether regularity of practice has an impact on the application of the label. If one has practiced witchcraft in the past, and intends to do so in the future, why would the label of witch be incorrect?

[Greybird]

I said:

First off, 'witch' has about a thousand definitions. When a Wiccan says 'witch' it isn't the same thing as when a Wizard of Oz fan says 'witch', which isn't the same thing as when an New Guinea tribesman says 'witch.' Even when a Wiccan says 'witch' it means a dozen or so different things (just as Isaac Bonewits.)

You said:

Just because everyone else is incorrect doesn't mean you should go jumping off the bridge along with 'em.

I beg to differ. What is the correct meaning for 'witch'? Which one - the green faced fantasy creature, the Wiccan, the practitioner, the primitive tribesman, which one gets to say that their usage is correct while everyone else's is wrong? The word has been around for centuries, and has developed a lot of different meanings in that time. Words do that.

[Aidron]

I think I see where I've made my mistake now - maybe I'm on a different side of the fence here and wasn't making myself entirely clear. By my reckoning there are two different uses for labels - publicly and privately. I suppose seeing as the OP was asking the question in a public forum then the "public" sense should apply, but it seemed to me that the questions were asked to apply to oneself personally. Thus, when aiming for a public label, the generally accepted definitions apply. But if the search for a label is a personal matter, then it's really no-one else's business what our labels or definitions are.

No one's business? No. Public and personal, however, are irrelevant as there is no such thing when it comes to correctly labeling something. You are something, or you aren't. You aren't kinda pregnant. You aren't sort of a Witch. Public, private, it doesn't matter. You are or you aren't. You most certainly can have Witchy leanings, but leanings alone do not a Witch (or pregnant lady) make.


On a side note, I don't think it's about lying, to the community or oneself. That would indicate malicious intent in my mind. I can't imagine someone labelling themselves contrary to a definition on purpose. But to flaunt a label, knowing full well that the accepted public definition isn't the same as your personal one, would be obnoxious to say the least.

No, it's not always about lying. Most of the time it's just ignorance. Lying, however, does not carry with it the inherent intent of malevolence. Many lies are told with the best of intentions, so you really can't make that as your argument.

And obnoxious is precisely the point. I'm tired of seeing people proclaiming themselves to be this and that when they aren't. It is deceptive and ignorance is no excuse. I don't go around calling myself a Wiccan (that would be a lie and insulting to those who genuinely are living a Wiccan life).


ETA: Looking at the OP again, the definition itself isn't in question. The question is whether regularity of practice has an impact on the application of the label. If one has practiced witchcraft in the past, and intends to do so in the future, why would the label of witch be incorrect?

Because if you aren't, you aren't. It's a present tense matter. You can say you used to practice Witchcraft and some day again intend to, but at the moment you are not a Witch. Some day I may be the greatest tarot reader in the world, and I may have long ago been a criminal in a past life. That doesn't mean either are applicable now.

And gods I hope I was a good criminal if I was, cause I'd hate to think I fudged something and got caught over something silly.

[Aidron]

I beg to differ. What is the correct meaning for 'witch'? Which one - the green faced fantasy creature, the Wiccan, the practitioner, the primitive tribesman, which one gets to say that their usage is correct while everyone else's is wrong? The word has been around for centuries, and has developed a lot of different meanings in that time. Words do that.

Beg to differ all you like, but words can transform over time. However, a Witch has always been linked to a European flavor of magic and as a historical figure. Wiccans can be Witches, that's entirely plausible given that Wiccan magic is deeply rooted in European practices of the occult. A tribesmen is not, as that flavor of magic is typically related to shamanism. The 'practitioner' could be anything, it's too vague, you can't give it a title beyond that. The green faced fantasy creature is just that, historical icon based on European points of view.

The word has been around for centuries, but that's no reason to go muddying it up by allowing everyone to claim they're a Witch when they clearly are not. They can do it, of course, but don't expect me to take them or their practices seriously when they cannot even be bothered to properly inform themselves of how their practices and who they are relate to words within a language.

[Faelon_Moon_Hawk]

I consider myself a humanistic witch, although not necessarily a pagan. but this morning i got to thinking, i don't really practice magick anymore... i used to, and i plan on using it again, but i honestly don't think i've used it in a few years... would that still make me a witch, then? I've always defined a witch as someone who practices witchcraft... but if i'm not currently practicing, then what does that make me?

I define witch as one who practices witchcraft. So to me if you don't actually you know practice your arte then I personally wouldn't call you a witch. However, that's not a bad thing or anything, people's paths change it happens ^^. I'd say, not knowing much of your path other than what you've written here, that you'd be Pagan.

[LadyWillow]

Gods forbid we care about labels. It's not like they ever did anything for us besides allow us to classify and identify things within our universe so that we are able to communicate about them. Oh gods, no, how dare we care.

I never said we should carry around 45,048,284 labels. I said we should not carry around incorrect ones. It's deceptive, intentionally or otherwise, and can make people appear ignorant or stupid.

As for the type of magic you practice... I don't recall asking. As for your lack of boasting and flaunting... how is that relevant to this topic? :eyebrow:

It's relevant because I'm talking about the type of magic that I do practice and how I label it. It's how I label myself. Secondly, it's relevant because you said that it can only harm me because I'm incorrectly labeling myself. My point was it's not like I go around telling everyone I meet, oh yeah I'm a witch. I personally consider myself a witch, I don't go around the pagan community telling everyone I meet I'm a witch. So, what's the harm in that?

[FiresSong]

Having read through this thread, I am inclined to agree with Aidron. There's nothing that I can really say that hasn't already been said.

[EvieLee]

No one's business? No. Public and personal, however, are irrelevant as there is no such thing when it comes to correctly labeling something. You are something, or you aren't. You aren't kinda pregnant. You aren't sort of a Witch. Public, private, it doesn't matter. You are or you aren't. You most certainly can have Witchy leanings, but leanings alone do not a Witch (or pregnant lady) make.

That's true to a point, I suppose. I still think there is a complexity to the whole label issue that isn't being displayed well in this thread. Some things are cut and dry of course, but I can't help the opinion that this isn't one of them.


No, it's not always about lying. Most of the time it's just ignorance. Lying, however, does not carry with it the inherent intent of malevolence. Many lies are told with the best of intentions, so you really can't make that as your argument.

And obnoxious is precisely the point. I'm tired of seeing people proclaiming themselves to be this and that when they aren't. It is deceptive and ignorance is no excuse. I don't go around calling myself a Wiccan (that would be a lie and insulting to those who genuinely are living a Wiccan life).

Oh no please, I don't mean to argue. I just find it all very interesting. I struggle to find fault with someone who "lies" without knowing they do so. If you (or I) were to call ourselves Wiccan without being so then we'd be lying. But if someone else was to do so, without knowing what Wicca was exactly, would they still be lying? Naturally, if someone doesn't know the accepted meaning of a word and uses it, and is corrected, I would think they'd reconsider the use of the word. But if they were corrected and persisted anyway, then I'd call that a lie. And fluffy. But this is getting OT so I'll stop now.



Because if you aren't, you aren't. It's a present tense matter. You can say you used to practice Witchcraft and some day again intend to, but at the moment you are not a Witch. Some day I may be the greatest tarot reader in the world, and I may have long ago been a criminal in a past life. That doesn't mean either are applicable now.

So if a Mechanic wasn't currently employed as a Mechanic then they would cease to be one? If a Christian stops going to church, do they stop being Christian? Bad analogy maybe, but perhaps skills and knowledge and other internal workings play a part in whether a person is something or isn't? Qualifications? Wrong word.

[Aidron]

It's relevant because I'm talking about the type of magic that I do practice and how I label it.

But if you are improperly labeling it and yourself, you're doing a big injustice to yourself if you ask me.


It's how I label myself. Secondly, it's relevant because you said that it can only harm me because I'm incorrectly labeling myself. My point was it's not like I go around telling everyone I meet, oh yeah I'm a witch. I personally consider myself a witch, I don't go around the pagan community telling everyone I meet I'm a witch. So, what's the harm in that?

The harm is in fallacy and in fanning the flames. Enough people twist the word and lay it on people who don't even deserve it (like tribal shamans). No point in spreading misinformation any further; it carries itself swift enough without our help.

[Greybird]

The word has been around for centuries, but that's no reason to go muddying it up by allowing everyone to claim they're a Witch when they clearly are not. They can do it, of course, but don't expect me to take them or their practices seriously when they cannot even be bothered to properly inform themselves of how their practices and who they are relate to words within a language.

A 'witch' is someone who practices 'witchcraft'. Witchcraft can mean a whole slew of things, from a European flavor of magic to diabolism. Anthropologists and folklorists use the term to refer to any kind of magic or supernatural power - yeah, that's vague, but whether pagans like it or not, those are genuine, legitimate uses of the word, established over a period of centuries. Perhaps the word originally just meant 'European folk magic', but that hasn't be true for hundreds of years. Semantics are a function of language, and the English language has decided that 'witch' means more than one thing. Many nations, when adopting or adding the English language, translate terms for certain folk practices in their own languages to 'witchcraft'. Those definitions become accurate, too, unless we believe that we have the right to declare that every English-Whatever translation dictionary is wrong because only our version of the word is right.

Sorry, pagans may not like it, but they don't have exclusive rights to the word 'witch'. Pagans don't get to decide what 'witch' means, the speakers of the English language get to do that.

Now, I actually agree with you in principle. I'm a big supporter of limiting definitions in certain contexts. If I'm sitting with a group of Wiccans and we're discussing whether they should call themselves a 'witch', I'll gladly limit myself to the Wiccan definitions of witchcraft (probably very close to yours.) If I'm sitting with a historical discussion group discussing the inquisition, I'll limit myself to the mythological diabolistic definition. The original poster didn't claim to be a Wiccan. She didn't even claim to be a pagan. As such, you can't answer her question accurately by limiting yourself to a single definition of witchcraft.

Here's another angle, not looking at the semantics at all: She said she's practiced magic in the past, and that she plans to in the future. If she's only a witch when she's practicing magic, then what is the time limit? Do you stop being a witch the second the circle is opened? Do you stop being a witch if you haven't cast a spell in a month? In a year? Or does simply having the knowledge and skills of a witch make you a witch?

[LadyWillow]

A 'witch' is someone who practices 'witchcraft'. Witchcraft can mean a whole slew of things, from a European flavor of magic to diabolism. Anthropologists and folklorists use the term to refer to any kind of magic or supernatural power - yeah, that's vague, but whether pagans like it or not, those are genuine, legitimate uses of the word, established over a period of centuries. Perhaps the word originally just meant 'European folk magic', but that hasn't be true for hundreds of years. Semantics are a function of language, and the English language has decided that 'witch' means more than one thing. Many nations, when adopting or adding the English language, translate terms for certain folk practices in their own languages to 'witchcraft'. Those definitions become accurate, too, unless we believe that we have the right to declare that every English-Whatever translation dictionary is wrong because only our version of the word is right.

Sorry, pagans may not like it, but they don't have exclusive rights to the word 'witch'. Pagans don't get to decide what 'witch' means, the speakers of the English language get to do that.

Now, I actually agree with you in principle. I'm a big supporter of limiting definitions in certain contexts. If I'm sitting with a group of Wiccans and we're discussing whether they should call themselves a 'witch', I'll gladly limit myself to the Wiccan definitions of witchcraft (probably very close to yours.) If I'm sitting with a historical discussion group discussing the inquisition, I'll limit myself to the mythological diabolistic definition. The original poster didn't claim to be a Wiccan. She didn't even claim to be a pagan. As such, you can't answer her question accurately by limiting yourself to a single definition of witchcraft.

Here's another angle, not looking at the semantics at all: She said she's practiced magic in the past, and that she plans to in the future. If she's only a witch when she's practicing magic, then what is the time limit? Do you stop being a witch the second the circle is opened? Do you stop being a witch if you haven't cast a spell in a month? In a year? Or does simply having the knowledge and skills of a witch make you a witch?

I couldn't agree with this post more.

[sunny.spoone]

I think one of the debates also going on here but isn't being acknowledged is: 'what constitutes witchcraft?' I don' think anyone will disagree that a proper definition (not necessarily the only definition) of witch is 'someone who practices witchcraft.'

Well what does constitute witchcraft?

I'm presently reading Ann Moura's 'Green Witchcraft' and she goes through a lot of the history of witches and witchcraft. I personally believe that while magick is included in witchcraft, it is not the only thing that comprises the craft. I believe Moura would agree. In addition to magick, there is herblore, divination, etc. While on its own, one of these practices might not necessarily constitute the practice of witchcraft, I do think they can, in some circumstances, based on the practitioner's set of beliefs and their intent.

Based on these thoughts and the evidence that I am not the only one who thinks this way, I think it is absolutely possible to be a witch without actively practicing what is traditionally called magick.

[CelticMoon11]

Psychologically speaking we can't help but create social schemas about the world, it's just how the human brain operates. Labels are inevitable..

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you get argued to till people are black and blue in the face, call yourself whatever you want to, do whatever you want to, at the end of the day the only person you need to answer to is yourself and whatever your beliefs dictate

[Sekhmet Soul30]

I've just gotten back into the world of witchcraft and I'm very proud of calling myself a witch. Love the name, love what it means. However if you don't practice witchcraft much anymore it doesn't mean that your not a witch. I agree with a couple people here, including the one that stated that people put too much importance into labels. Also saying that your an astronaut when your not is something that I just don't get.

Who would call themselves that if they weren't, except six-year-old's. What she was talking about has nothing to do with what you mentioned. Be a witch and don't let others tell you that your not :thumbsup:.

[herbal_legends]

How do you know that you're not practicing witchcraft?
Being a witch is a state of mind and a way of life. You don't necessarily need to cast a spell once a week or anything like that. It's about your connection to nature.....it's about focused intent. When I'm cooking soup to help nurse my 5 year old back to health and I focus all my positive energy on it, that's witchcraft. When I light a candle and send up a prayer, that's witchcraft. When I think about someone and wish them the best (or worst), that is witchcraft. When I sweep my kitchen and imagine all the negativity being swept away or when I'm in my garden tending to my flowers and herbs...guess what? That's my form of witchcraft.


I don't advise people to label themselves things that they aren't but we don't know enough about your lifestyle to really make a judgement.
Calling yourself a witch when you're not is probably just as silly as me calling myself Korean (I'm German and Haitian). Yeah people do place too much emphasis on Labels...but they were created for a reason....it's what language is all about...if labels didn't matter then we wouldn't be able to communicate or function properly in society.

'Spiritual' might be a better label if you indeed don't have any form of witchcraft in your life.

[Sekhmet Soul30]

The last thread "What constitutes a non-Wiccan Witch' has turned into a debate. I don't want to debate why I like Laurie Cabot, I don't want to hear about her police record, I don't want to hear people talk about how she dresses. Can something please be done.

Oh about this thread, just go with the flow.

[Twinkle]

I've just gotten back into the world of witchcraft and I'm very proud of calling myself a witch. Love the name, love what it means. However if you don't practice witchcraft much anymore it doesn't mean that your not a witch. I agree with a couple people here, including the one that stated that people put too much importance into labels. Also saying that your an astronaut when your not is something that I just don't get.

Who would call themselves that if they weren't, except six-year-old's. What she was talking about has nothing to do with what you mentioned. Be a witch and don't let others tell you that your not :thumbsup:.

Actually, many people apply labels that don't fit simply because they like the idea of what that label entails.

Labels don't matter, but if one is going to use one, they better make damn sure it fits.

[DiscordianKitten]

Woah, necroposting :)

My opinion:

Witch = Someone who practices Witchcraft

Using the name witch even tho you no longer practice witchcraft sounds to me a bit like you're just using it cause you like the word, which is all very well but i don't go around calling myself a teenager even tho i used to be one all because i like the word. My sister was a model ten years ago but she sure as hell doesn't claim to be one now.

[TuathaSidhe]

I think herbals response sums up a lot of my own feelings on the matter. One has to define what witchcraft is first, and then one has to define what magic is. Although I do agree that if you say you do not practice any kind of magic, then you are not a Witch.

I am a Witch, however because of having two small children, busy schedule and what not I haven't done anything major in a long long time. Oh, and I've never ever been in any "rituals" other than my own. No public stuff for me, I'm anti social...but that is going OT now, hhaaha.

Anyways, just because the things I do are small doesn't mean I am not a witch. Just because I have periods where I am depressed or have no energy to do anything doesn't mean I am not one either.

I think its when people apply a label when they've never even done stuff to begin with, or when ones path changes and they are something completely different.

[Setkheni-itw]

If it's just a linguistic issue for you, I would just say "No, you're not a Witch." But at the same time it's kind of a gray area for me because you did practice in the past and plan to in the future... how long does a hiatus have to be before you temporarily change labels?

If you really want to call yourself a Witch, though, then my answer is: Practice Witchcraft. Take up Kitchen Witchery or something. It'll give you practice and you can keep your label.

Speaking of labels, I think it's a little silly that people are so anti-label. One of the neat things about being human is that we use language, and what's language but a slew of labels? If people just randomly use whatever words they want for everything, nobody is going to understand each other.


A 'witch' is someone who practices 'witchcraft'. Witchcraft can mean a whole slew of things, from a European flavor of magic to diabolism. Anthropologists and folklorists use the term to refer to any kind of magic or supernatural power - yeah, that's vague, but whether pagans like it or not, those are genuine, legitimate uses of the word, established over a period of centuries.

I agree with this... mostly. Europeans are not the only ones with license to use the word "Witch," the word has been used for a really long time for non-European magic as well. That said, if a non-European practitioner chooses to call him or herself a Witch or his or her practice Witchcraft, there is no legitimate reason to prevent that.

However, I'd like to make a few points quick. Anthropologists don't usually call all magic and supernatural power "witchcraft." The reason is that the word is very pejorative in a lot of cultural contexts. If you call people in particular cultures witches, even if they use magic on a regular basis, they would be very offended because there is no positive connotation for them where there would be for most of us.

Positive associations with witchcraft are generally referring to European sourced magick. However, it's also untrue to say people practicing European forms are the only ones who have the right to use the word. Because of the way the history of the word panned out, that's simply not true.

So it's not linguistically wrong, but I would definitely caution people against using the word outside of a European magickal context purely because it can reek of cultural insensitivity when you do.

On a personal level, I am a Witch. I practice Witchcraft very similar to what most Wiccans would be practicing, with many roots in European folk magic. I also use heka, an ancient Egyptian form of magic, but it would feel really weird to me to call that "witchcraft" because it feels culturally irrelevant.

[Cake-eating_Moth]

Those who claim the title of a Witch is one who recognizes the energy within themselves to affect change.

To go by the shallow definition that most are giving, I can only claim the title of Witch while I am practicing magick.

The real debate here is, 'How much time is allowed to go without casting, in relation to claiming the title of witch?'
I'm going to take this example to the extreme. As I'm casting a spell, I'm a witch. After the spell is cast, I'm no longer a witch.

..... How much sense does that make? None.

You are an astronaut as long as you are paid to be one. Once you RETIRE from being an astronaut, then you USE to be an astronaut. We never "retire" from being a Witch unless we denounce the title. We can 'be' one whenever we want. Once an astronaut is no longer an astronaut, they can't just go out and do 'astronaut' things. A witch, current or even former, can practice witchcraft whenever they want. In the case of former, they can reclaim the title whenever they feel like they want to.

[Micheál]

A witch is any practitioner of magic(k) that identifies with the term, and there are many that do not identify with the term. Most Ceremonial Magicians don't, preferring the term magus, or magician. Crowley himself despised the term, and oddly enough he has had a tremendous influence on modern pagan witchcraft. It's mostly associated with folk, practical, and operative low magic(k). ("low" and "high" are also labels many practitioners of magick don't recognise, or agree with, but they are still out there.)

It's an English word of Anglo-Saxon origin with a debatable meaning. It's been associated with many folk and cunning craft traditions, and often practitioners of arts and crafts associated with such may identify the term, and again, many do not, preferring the terms herbalist, astrologer, diviner, spiritualist, e.t.c. Many do not prefer the term, who have known it as an offensive term the church linked with devil worship, and its use in the English language to describe malicious, supernatural traditions of ill will intended to cause harm, or misfortune.

In religious witchcraft traditions, it is a title, that is earned. A title that with initiation one becomes enlightened, and introduced to the mysteries, on an initiation that takes place with the Gods. Therefore, like many titles, once it's been earned, it can't be taken away.

Therefore if one identifies with the label, there can be many reasons why, but these reasons needn't be explained, or justified. Whether a title, or a way of life, it's a lifestyle that's a part of who you are. Twisting practices and definitions in order to use the label won't do any good. It's not a term of technical consideration, put one in which its affiliations are lived and met on a daily basis.

[LadyDryad]

Those who claim the title of a Witch is one who recognizes the energy within themselves to affect change.

To go by the shallow definition that most are giving, I can only claim the title of Witch while I am practicing magick.

The real debate here is, 'How much time is allowed to go without casting, in relation to claiming the title of witch?'
I'm going to take this example to the extreme. As I'm casting a spell, I'm a witch. After the spell is cast, I'm no longer a witch.

..... How much sense does that make? None.

You are an astronaut as long as you are paid to be one. Once you RETIRE from being an astronaut, then you USE to be an astronaut. We never "retire" from being a Witch unless we denounce the title. We can 'be' one whenever we want. Once an astronaut is no longer an astronaut, they can't just go out and do 'astronaut' things. A witch, current or even former, can practice witchcraft whenever they want. In the case of former, they can reclaim the title whenever they feel like they want to.

This sums up my thoughts.

[Setkheni-itw]

To go by the shallow definition that most are giving, I can only claim the title of Witch while I am practicing magick. ... I'm going to take this example to the extreme. As I'm casting a spell, I'm a witch. After the spell is cast, I'm no longer a witch.
It's not that shallow. The definition most people here are using is "A Witch is someone who practices Witchcraft." If you do not practice Witchcraft, you are not a Witch, even if you used to be.

I'm not saying that the OP absolutely isn't a Witch, but a few years without practicing at all is a long time. I guess it would depend on how she viewed herself in the past few years. Say, for example, one reviews things on a case by case basis and just doesn't feel the need to use magick in each one for a long time. Then I'd say she or he is still a Witch because that thought process and intent is there. But if you go years just plain not practicing Witchcraft, whether because it doesn't cross your mind or because you are deliberately avoiding it, then you're just not a Witch anymore.

It's the exact same reason I don't call myself a cartoonist. I used to draw a strip. I totally intend to draw cartoons again. But I haven't done it in quite a long time. So as much as I wish I still was, I'm not.

I kind of wonder if people are turning this into a value judgment. There's nothing about being a Witch that makes one superior to others, it's just a state of being, it's not a big deal not to be one.

[RoseKitten]

I've not read this entire thread, but how are we defining "witchcraft"?

For me, it doesn't even require spells, it's a state of being. I feel nature moving, the energy that is around me flowing. I rarely cast spells, in fact, I think it's been at least a year since I did. Does that make me less of a witch? To me, being a witch is not only feeling, but interacting with the energy around us. I pour myself into everything that I do, and I balance myself with the energy around me. My connection to the world is what makes me a witch, not how many spells I cast.

[Sundragon]

I've not read this entire thread, but how are we defining "witchcraft"?

For me, it doesn't even require spells, it's a state of being. I feel nature moving, the energy that is around me flowing. I rarely cast spells, in fact, I think it's been at least a year since I did. Does that make me less of a witch? To me, being a witch is not only feeling, but interacting with the energy around us. I pour myself into everything that I do, and I balance myself with the energy around me. My connection to the world is what makes me a witch, not how many spells I cast.

Sure you can be a witch without doing magick, in the same manner a trained surgeon who no longer performs surgery is still technically a surgeon. A carpenter who no longer perfoms his/her craft is still a trained carpenter. If witchcraft is merely the knowledge and ability to work practical magick like a sorcerer (which seems to be exactly what a non Wiccan witch is for all intents and purposes) then you are witch due to training if nothing else.


)o( Blessed Be,

Sundragon

[RoseKitten]

Sure you can be a witch without doing magick, in the same manner a trained surgeon who no longer performs surgery is still technically a surgeon. A carpenter who no longer perfoms his/her craft is still a trained carpenter. If witchcraft is merely the knowledge and ability to work practical magick like a sorcerer (which seems to be exactly what a non Wiccan witch is for all intents and purposes) then you are witch due to training if nothing else.


)o( Blessed Be,

Sundragon

So, in order to practice magic, one must cast spells? Funny, I know few true witches that use spells on a regular basis. It is quite possible to work magic without working spells.

[LadyDryad]

So, in order to practice magic, one must cast spells? Funny, I know few true witches that use spells on a regular basis. It is quite possible to work magic without working spells.


For me this brings up the question "what is the definition of a spell?"

I know lots of people who have a very rigid definition of the word "spell," and lots that consider cooking and putting herbs and positive energies into the food a "spell."