total newb question *blush*

[Toby Stimpson]

Hey all,

Im a total newb to ceremonial magick, and I have a question.

I recently did mass downloads from websites for my files, and I'm in the middle of sorting through it all. I have found a lot of literiture on European High magick. I am learning so much just based on writers and descriptions.

SO, my question is... what major branches are there for Western European Occultism? There seems to be so many different branches within these traditions but... how would one classify say Eliphas Levi's material... or the various Grimoirs one finds?

Of what I see... there is:

Hermeticism
-- Enochian magic

Thelema

Chaos Magic

Zos Kia Cultus

Various takes on Kabbalah

What am I missing? As I said I am quite new to ceremonial High Magic, I would certainly like to learn more but right now I''m more in the filing stages. What do you guys think?

Tobias

[LeftToWonder]

The nature of the subject is going to subject you to a VERY wide array of opinons. What exactly are you intrested in with ceremonial magic? I can dig up some book recomendations.

[Toby Stimpson]

Well you see, I have books... tons to be honest. I'm trying to gain a basic awareness and familiarity with the subject.

I learn best when things are layed out for me, when I can piece together a layout of what 'fits where' if that makes sense. By learning first the definitons of the broad headings and what fits under those headings... I can begin to then differentiate between main groups and then syncretic groups.

So when I ask what the major groups and traditions are such as Thelema and Hermetic... I can then begin to learn more about those groups individually and then put them together.

I hope that makes sense.

[LeftToWonder]

*The following is my opinon, feel free to disregard me as a heretic.:D

The occult, specifically ceremonial magic is an art, some would say THE Art. Its essentially a body of work designed to communicate with something unobservable(at least directly). The best are is a fluid art, adaptable, and interpretable by the individual. The body of occult knowledge is built upon the foundation of itself, and the experiences of the person involved. While there are certain "trends" in occultism, most of them overlap heavily. The occult is not black and white, its more of a murky grayish haze. That is by no means a comprehensive list, and like I said there is alot of overlap between most of them.

Occult Influences and Traditions:
Theurgy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esotericism#.22Esotericism.22_in_current_usage%5DEsotericism%5B/url%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%5BURL=%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theurgy)
Goetia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goetia)
Qabbalah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy%5DNecromancy%5B/url%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%5BURL=%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah)
Chaos Magic/Discordianism (http://www.spiralnature.com/magick/chaos/index.html)
Enochian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism%5DDiscordianism%5B/url%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%5Burl=%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enochian)
Thelema (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema)
Golden Dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn)
Theosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism%5DSatanism%5B/url%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%5Burl=%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy)
Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)
Gnosticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism)
Alchemy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy)
Shamanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism)
Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry)
Rosicrucianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism)
Yoga (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga)

On a more personal note, I (think I) understand intuitavely what you are doing because my brain used to work like yours. Your trying to quantify and quanitate something that isn't quantifiable. Your best bet is to start with something, rather than trying to gather and categorize all available information first. It is impossible to understand the true body of occult knowledge without practical experience with that knowledge. I would also say personally, magical knowledge is something that grows over time, and it seems to me that I am guided to the information that I need, when I need it.

[sidhe]

I need to actually stay around more...

The major branches were covered above. I'm most familiar with Thelema, but have friends and associates in other areas (R+C mainly).

I can hit you with a list of good Thelemic resources, if you would like.

[hitman]

Don't forget Christian CM. At one time most CMs were Christian, and some still are, remember!
A lot of CMs simply take a little of what each "subdivision" has to offer, in terms of use, if not in terms of belief or outlook. Many CMs at some point or another blend a little Chaos style into their magic, and vice versa. I make use of pretty much whatever interests me, but don't really have much use for Thelemic rituals.

[Pernelle]

This is already a great thread (possibly because it has not grown to gigantic proportions yet). I consider myself to be basically Hermetic; I went through a Druidic phase, but found it a little on the vague side to suit my taste. I know it's great for people who like that kind of freedom, and I am kind of a maverick even now. But I'm only just beginning the "official" plunge into this whole arena, of which I have been aware tangentially off and on for some time now - and certainly this whole sub looks to be a great resource.

I'm going to go over what has been posted carefully, as I am also at a slight loss as to where precisely to begin. (I would kinda consider that I only know just enough to be dangerous at this point! :bow:)

[magus512]

The book I started out with in CM was The magican's Workbook by Donald Tyson. I worked through that book and learned alot of practical stuff to use. I then moved on to Modern Magick By Donald Michael Kraig. Great Stuff from these two...Check 'em out.