Mundane Magic 2.... Bringing the Sacred to the Everyday

[Tanya]

I've been thinking a lot about this....

how do we incorportate the sacred... and just in the last few days had a number of epiphanies..
1. I have generally thought of the world in terms of natural vs human... but w humans ARE natural... what we do and make and ARE is not against nature.. it may be 'out of balance' but it's not unnatural.. there is really no way anything could BE unnatural...

2. I have often struggled with the 2 spirit animals in me.. and until today never even seen or understood one.... Magpie and Bear..... always I was cool with Bear,,, even though she's left me more stout than is fashionable....

but I never realized or honored the other.... til today when I saw her for the first time.... the part of me that is slick and preening... the part of me that collects for the joy of collecting....

3. and in my cup of tea I realized lies a sacred herb that my own culture has no mythology on... yet it is sacred.... but then to be on Earth all things are sacred....

how do we as humans despoil the sacred? by cutting it into it's parts.. and thinking a thing IS its parts... instead of MORE than the SUM of its parts.....

so science fails us, as it is a compartmentalizing activity... and so magic is whole the web of the multiverse...
if we are good witches.. we are the spider that knows which string to pluck.....to setthe whole in motion in a way the best suits us.

[RainInanna]

how do we as humans despoil the sacred? by cutting it into it's parts.. and thinking a thing IS its parts... instead of MORE than the SUM of its parts....

Two thoughts.

a) The Sacred is always there, we just forget to see it. The trick is not to finding it in mythology or magic, but to work on constantly recognizing it wherever we are and whatever we're doing. Witches are "seers" - we "see" the Sacred that others may not.

b) I realize what you've described is why I've moved away from religions and into a kind of personalized, natural, non-descript spirituality, which some might call "New Age". No longer do I want to cut the Sacred into parts and focus on them, instead I want to find the Sacred wherever it is, anywhere. Frankly, I find more pleasure in finding the Sacred wherever it is than doing research or following ceremonial rituals to find it. I'm past the "spirituality takes hard work" part, because as you point out, it focuses on the parts and the work in classifying them.

[Brigid Rowan]

I realize what you've described is why I've moved away from religions and into a kind of personalized, natural, non-descript spirituality, which some might call "New Age". No longer do I want to cut the Sacred into parts and focus on them, instead I want to find the Sacred wherever it is, anywhere. Frankly, I find more pleasure in finding the Sacred wherever it is than doing research or following ceremonial rituals to find it. I'm past the "spirituality takes hard work" part, because as you point out, it focuses on the parts and the work in classifying them.


I totally identify with that...and I cant sum it up any better than how you said it. But then many times I find your posts are very similer to where my own mind is.

I agree, Im tired and disenchanted with chasing the sacred, trying to jump through a prescribed flaming hoop and tapp dancing my way through rituals to hope I may "feel" something. No thank you. Im done with that...Im finding seeking the sacred, well, that its rather like falling in love, the harder you seek it, the less likely it is to happen.

I fill my time in sacred studies by reading books, watching the world and seasons evolve, so Im -ready- and more in a frame of mind for the sacred to be recognized by my mind and heart.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I find that for me the spiritual is an everyday conversation with the world about me.

I cross over two mountains as I go to work so frequently talk to the spirit of the mountains. I guess I picked up the Native American concept of refering to the mountains and things as Grandfather Mountain or Old Man River, Grandmother Oak, etc.

Sometimes It's just general talk, ie their mantle is so colorful and full, the leaves make them seem alive, etc. Other times it may be to ask for protection as I cross the snow covered roads.

Heron is one of my guides and guardians so I spend a lot of time talking to them. I find that Heron is drawn to water to use its medicine and find that I do so as well. I miss them when they leave the area for the mid summer but always look to the river regardless and get a rush when I see them regardless of the time of year.

I find I look at the world with scientific eyes, let my mind go on a geologic structure and I'm lost in though for hours. Think of the type of rock, what created it, what forces lifted it up, what forces broke it down and created the componet parts of land, etc.

Yet even as I do that I also look at the greater picture of the whole. The balance of the land, the imagery of land, sky, animals. Sometimes I try to remove the influences of man upon the land in my mental picture or even the physical by blocking out power lines or houses even roads.

My wife and I frequently speak of how a House is huggen and accepted by the land or rejected and stands outcast by it. it's strange but you can see it everytime when the house and land are one or when they are not.

Sometimes the sacred comes landing right on your nose or finger. For me Dragon is a powerful creature and has been with me for as long as I can recall. Yet other than journey or dream I can only see them when I see the Damsel Fly or Dragon Fly. Both are another guardain that draws me to water yet the arial stunts hold my attention for hours and when one lands upon my hand or arm I can only watch it and feel I am part of a greater whole at that time.

[Arinya]

magic is whole the web of the multiverse...
if we are good witches.. we are the spider that knows which string to pluck.....to set the whole in motion in a way the best suits us.

This is WHY I am a witch, or want to be a witch, or think like a witch, whichever the proper label is for me I don't know but I wholly agree with what you wrote Tanya. It's that connection between everyone and everything that I strive to feel, because despite how empty the space between two people looks it never is and between me and you what really is there separating us but our own perceptions of boundaries that don't exisit? This is why magick works, this is why we're witches, to pull those strings and effect the whole. To think of ourselves as more than individual parts separate from one another but to think of ourselves as the whole, parts not separate at all but intertwined and bound with all the rest until there really are no "parts."

[Lunacie]

Two thoughts.

a) The Sacred is always there, we just forget to see it. The trick is not to finding it in mythology or magic, but to work on constantly recognizing it wherever we are and whatever we're doing. Witches are "seers" - we "see" the Sacred that others may not.

b) I realize what you've described is why I've moved away from religions and into a kind of personalized, natural, non-descript spirituality, which some might call "New Age". No longer do I want to cut the Sacred into parts and focus on them, instead I want to find the Sacred wherever it is, anywhere. Frankly, I find more pleasure in finding the Sacred wherever it is than doing research or following ceremonial rituals to find it. I'm past the "spirituality takes hard work" part, because as you point out, it focuses on the parts and the work in classifying them.

Hm, I see it somewhat differently. I see rituals as "conditioning" us to look inwards and recognize our connection with the natural world, with the elements, with the Divine. Done properly, rituals and guided meditations teach us to look for that connection and the way we connect with everything around us, and what a marvel that can be.

People who leave spirituality out of religion are certainly missing the most important aspect - in my opinion anyway.

[Spiritlite30]

To me the sacred is looking at everything as one. We are all made of the same molecules that just vibrate at different speeds hence different dimensions. I'm fortunate, my grandmother is a psychic so is my mom and my brother and I. We grew up with it, and we look at everything animals, insects, frogs, stones, plants etc as one. I'm at one with this computer I'm at one with the chair I sit in, I'm at one with my crystals, I'm at one with everyone in this universe.
Michelle

[RainInanna]

Hm, I see it somewhat differently. I see rituals as "conditioning" us to look inwards and recognize our connection with the natural world, with the elements, with the Divine. Done properly, rituals and guided meditations teach us to look for that connection and the way we connect with everything around us, and what a marvel that can be.

Sorry I'm a bit slow and not exactly sure if I'm reading you right. Is this in response to my saying ceremonialism etc. is focusing on sacrifice and hard work?

My experience is just that eventually you get past the need for rituals to condition you to find the Divine. But then, personally, I have a lot of logical thinking and reasoning going on in 98% of my life and I prefer to let it go in the spiritual.

[Lunacie]

Sorry I'm a bit slow and not exactly sure if I'm reading you right. Is this in response to my saying ceremonialism etc. is focusing on sacrifice and hard work?

My experience is just that eventually you get past the need for rituals to condition you to find the Divine. But then, personally, I have a lot of logical thinking and reasoning going on in 98% of my life and I prefer to let it go in the spiritual.

I guess I don't understand your connection between ceremonies and rituals and "hard work"? I think a well constructed ritual done with the same basic structure so one knows on one level what to expect, but with that small difference each time that speaks to our spritual nature, can be helpful in connecting with the spiritual nature of everything (the divine nature of it all if you will).

So I guess I'm saying that being "past that part" doesn't necessarily mean that you've become so enlightened that you don't need rituals and ceremonies or working with other people anymore. There are many different ways of seeing the divine nature all around us, and rituals and ceremonies are certainly a valid way of doing that.

[RainInanna]

I guess I don't understand your connection between ceremonies and rituals and "hard work"? I think a well constructed ritual done with the same basic structure so one knows on one level what to expect, but with that small difference each time that speaks to our spritual nature, can be helpful in connecting with the spiritual nature of everything (the divine nature of it all if you will).

Oh I don't mean rituals aren't helpful and useful for some, and agree they are used to help condition you to find the Sacred. They are beautiful, and meaningful for those who want to use them. Not just valid, they are wonderful; but they aren't necessary. I know a lot of people who look down on those of us who don't use them because they're so tied up into ceremonial aspects and how spirituality "should require sacrifice and learning" etc. etc. etc. and "not just be easy and feel-good". Real spirituality doesn't require a ton of work. I think a lot of people get way too tired up in the work and the pieces and lose their view of the whole. Miss the forest for the trees.

I think we actually agree on more then not. I definitely feel the whole "more enlightened than you" thing is old, no matter who it's coming from.

[TuathaSidhe]

I can remember growing up and always asking "why" I was made to go to church growing up and when I asked why i had to go, I was always told because we had to....ok, but WHY...and then I was hit with..well, we have to work for our salvation and spirtual growth.

Uh.....OK...I have to work for it? Why cant I just feel it?...Then I was hit with the "you'll know you feel it when you've worked for it..."

I didnt feel anything until I turned 18 and left Christianity. Then it was right infront of me.

I met a women in a drs. office and somehow we got on the subject of church and the like. She told me if people wanted to consider her a heathen then she would take that title with pride, as her church was the sky above her and the earth below her. She felt the world around her, accepted it for what it was, worked WITH it and had more peace than alot of people I know.

I cant remember her name, but she was much older and she and our convo has stuck with me for a long long time.

I think for those who do rituals and whatnot, I think its something that they do because they enjoy it, they feel it and want to do it. Its something that works for them and well, you go with what works for you, or imo it wont work.

I am 27, and been on my path since 18 and ive not once done a ritual or a spell......

or maybe I have. Perhaps when im in my kitchen cooking that is my ritual, or when I say a prayer over the food for a certain thing is my spell......

[Lunacie]

I can remember growing up and always asking "why" I was made to go to church growing up and when I asked why i had to go, I was always told because we had to....ok, but WHY...and then I was hit with..well, we have to work for our salvation and spirtual growth.

Uh.....OK...I have to work for it? Why cant I just feel it?...Then I was hit with the "you'll know you feel it when you've worked for it..."

I didnt feel anything until I turned 18 and left Christianity. Then it was right infront of me.

I met a women in a drs. office and somehow we got on the subject of church and the like. She told me if people wanted to consider her a heathen then she would take that title with pride, as her church was the sky above her and the earth below her. She felt the world around her, accepted it for what it was, worked WITH it and had more peace than alot of people I know.

I cant remember her name, but she was much older and she and our convo has stuck with me for a long long time.

I think for those who do rituals and whatnot, I think its something that they do because they enjoy it, they feel it and want to do it. Its something that works for them and well, you go with what works for you, or imo it wont work.

I am 27, and been on my path since 18 and ive not once done a ritual or a spell......

or maybe I have. Perhaps when im in my kitchen cooking that is my ritual, or when I say a prayer over the food for a certain thing is my spell......

It was very confusing to me for many years in attending a church that somehow I felt that I wasn't deserving of salvation and that special relationship was always just out of my grasp, and yet I was also told that it was all a gift because none of us "deserve" it. None of that ever made sense to me, and it still doesn't. We shouldn't have to "earn" that relationship with the divine by working for it or whatever.

But I know people who don't see any value in something that is given to them without them doing anything to earn it in some way. That's even one one of the fundamental beliefs of Reiki. For myself, I feel that sooner or later everything that comes around also goes around, and whatever we are given is somehow passed on to another.

So... I'm not attending rituals with my group because that is the only way to work towards that special relationship with the gods, but because I enjoy working with other people, sharing ideas and insights and just companionship, and because it makes me feel connected in a spiritual sense. One can certainly have a spiritual connection with the gods and the universe without doing rituals or ceremonies with other people, but I feel that doing so leaves out a pretty large chunk of spiritual connection with the spirit that inhabits all people as well as all things. There is a time and place for working with other people, and a time and place for working with nature all by ourselves.

But again, this is my opinion and what works for me and makes sense to me, and it may not make sense to anyone else.

[TuathaSidhe]

Oh I know what your saying. I dont see anything wrong with doing rituals in the least, and like I said, perhaps what I do could in a way be considered a ritual or spell to an extent.

I personally find trying to do a ritual or spell in the, um, "normal" sence (if thats even a good way to put it) very trying for me and nothing just ever seems to work and I end up feeling more frustrated and put off than anything. I just dont get that little something from making sure I have all my tools and everything set up like its supose to go, as I do with just..doing.

I think you have to do what works for you or it wont work. I also think if someone tries to do something that isnt working for them because they feel like they *have* to, then that defeats the whole purpose of it all imo.

[Lunacie]

Hm, well, I don't feel that tools are always necessary, they just make it easier for everyone to focus on the same thing if more than one person is working together. And it's the little surprises in the ritual that often have the most meaning for me.

At our Ostara ritual, it was the first ritual we'd had since our group fractured (see the thread about recognizing trolls in covens) and we really thought we were going to be much more "together" and better than we had been with all the negativity that the troll had been bringing to the group. And there we were, casting the circle and calling the quarters and inviting the god and goddess - and suddenly we hear sirens from fire trucks and rescue squads just a street away and all the dogs on the block were howling in response, and we went ahead and invited the Lord and Lady and I said "Hail and Welcome, Lady Chaos!" Not what we were expecting that night at all, and exactly what we needed to let us know that chaos brings growth and inspiration and other good things. :lol:

[TuathaSidhe]

:giggle:

I guess, thats where I differ...I dunno, maybe its my OCD? That would have seriously stressed me out and everything would have just been *wrong* (ok, not really wrong wrong, but like, omg this is not what I planned! wrong, lol)

I would have been the person going, "NO, wait! do over do over!...do we get a do over? I want to call forth my do over" :T

[~Elise~]

for YEARS it's been a running joke on who is going to show up at our Samhain ritual.
First year, police helicopter circling overhead.
second year-police helicopter spotlighted the ritual.
Third year- police helicopter AND two full fire engines showed up. We just kept on with ritual.
After that, we moved out to the country in BFE and no interupptions since. Just that damn inconvenience of driving out that far.

We saw it as humorous and looked forward to the added energies.

Elise

[Tanya]

my husband and I have had this conversation about ritual often.

I think all our living should be part of the dance.... that we can not be more IN it... but we can be more AWARE of our place in it.


but he's a fairly traditional Gardnarian to my more chaotic family hedgewitchy tradtion...


YET when I have entered into rituals with him.. we both find it deeply moving and satisfying...

I believe rituals are one way we make mental and physical space in our lives to see that creation is unfolding all around us...and we are in it.

just thought I would add a little poem I like here.. it seems it might fit.


A Pantheist Worships the Sky

There is no great ‘Mystic”
beyond the deep warm blue—
beyond the still sunlight
through a kitchen window.

All the soul of the world
is bathed in bright light—
you are standing in it
now—
to dazzled to know,
“This is it.”



BB

Tanya

[childofbast]

After taking a college class on magic and religion, and after reading through several books on ancient Pagan cultures, it seems that most of our ancestors did not see a separation between the sacred and the mundane. Everything was sacred. It's hard for us to think that way in this modern world where most of society is secularized. We're mundane when we're at home, but spiritual when we're in church or something similar.

Really, many of our daily practices stem from superstition, religion, spirituality, and social taboos. We just don't think of these things as being ritualized in anyway.

The more I study ancient cultures, especially the ancient Irish, the more I find myself thinking this way. Everything we do is spiritual. Brushing one's teeth is a ritual to cleanse, for instance. Kissing your significant other could be akin to a mating ritual, claiming your territory, or what have you (these are simply conjectures). Simply feeling spirit within things is sacred.

~Melanie

[cheddarsox]

Pantheist here, so no separation between magic and mundane. Everything is sacred. I like ritual, as a celebration and focus on various aspects of What Is.

My practices are awareness and acknowledgment, so I do things that help me stay aware of the sacred all, and then do things as a response to this awareness. That is my faith, distilled. There are many ways I do this, little daily rituals, use of symbols, and acceptance, a deep level of acceptance, and a willingness to be very honest with myself.

I try not to sheild myself from things, but to allow myself to experience and react to them, because I don't really draw the line between good/evil etc. Things are, and I want to know them. A pretty insane and dangerous way to live, but very interesting.

I don't, and never have understood the basics of Christianity, that god is playing hide and go seek with us, and isn't it more wonderful to believe in something that never shows itself, and all that.

I experience the Universe 24/7, and it is awesome. I don't spend my energy trying to see if something is hiding behind it, I just embrace and experience as much of it as I can before I get recycled.

[Lunacie]

After taking a college class on magic and religion, and after reading through several books on ancient Pagan cultures, it seems that most of our ancestors did not see a separation between the sacred and the mundane. Everything was sacred. It's hard for us to think that way in this modern world where most of society is secularized. We're mundane when we're at home, but spiritual when we're in church or something similar.

Really, many of our daily practices stem from superstition, religion, spirituality, and social taboos. We just don't think of these things as being ritualized in anyway.

The more I study ancient cultures, especially the ancient Irish, the more I find myself thinking this way. Everything we do is spiritual. Brushing one's teeth is a ritual to cleanse, for instance. Kissing your significant other could be akin to a mating ritual, claiming your territory, or what have you (these are simply conjectures). Simply feeling spirit within things is sacred.

~Melanie

Almost everything we do is a ritual of some sort - we've just lost our awareness of that concept except in certain settings. People who say they don't believe in doing rituals or in doing magic are actually doing both of them, but just aren't aware of it because of that compartmentalization and of the separation between spirituality and magic - from mundane tasks.

[childofbast]

Almost everything we do is a ritual of some sort - we've just lost our awareness of that concept except in certain settings. People who say they don't believe in doing rituals or in doing magic are actually doing both of them, but just aren't aware of it because of that compartmentalization and of the separation between spirituality and magic - from mundane tasks.


Oh exactly! I have several agnostic and atheistic friends who, while very tolerant and accepting of my ways, sometimes laugh a bit when I talk about rituals and such. They don't easily accept the fact that they also partake in ritual every day.

~Melanie

[Heart of All]

All this talk about rituals in the every day reminds me of a conversation I had with my boyfriend about worship the other day. I asked him to tell my why he worships his god, and then he asked me to tell him why I worship my gods. Along the way, I managed to get out that everyone worships something: aside from my gods, I also worship dance. Most people worship consumerism or the dollar. My boyfriend worships art. Most people worship something, and do rituals in worship of that thing (dance class, shopping, drawing, etc), but just fail to see it that way in their efforts to secularize their lives or separate life from church, as if worship of God is the only way to worship. I say everyone worships, be it music, tea, television, the idea of progress, or fashion.

[childofbast]

It's interesting that you say that, HeartoftheMoon. I also had a similar conversation with friends today. I was telling them that, even though my fiance is agnostic and will persistently say that he hasn't a religion, I do think that a lot of his beliefs could be considered religious. Maybe that just means I have a very poor idea of what the definition of religion is, but hey...I try. lol

For instance, he's become a very strict vegetarian and seems more militant about it than I am. I've told him before that that is like a religion for him, but he just can't see it. I still think it is, though. And plenty of people are adherents of science and speak about it like some religious people speak of their religions.

~Melanie

[RainInanna]

It's hard for us to think that way in this modern world where most of society is secularized. We're mundane when we're at home, but spiritual when we're in church or something similar.

Phyllis Curott mentions the divide we seem to see between mundane and spiritual in Witchcrafting. Paraphrasing, given how the world around is treated like a "combination supply depot and garbage dump" no wonder "it's not just hard, it's impossible to believe the world is filled with magic". I feel this arises from the mainstream religious teaching many are raised with - that the mundane world is separated from the Divine, that the Divine sits someplace outside the universe and is only accessible after death, and that the first human was given "dominion over all the animals". We live in a society where most are taught from childhood that the earth is inherently imperfect, life is a waste of time until we can die and achieve ecstasy, and that animals were made to be "named" and owned by humans.

Even when we get past that, there's still a dichotomy that the Divine must be found within sacred space or the astral or after purifying oneself and reciting the right words. I don't think a lot of people really, truly internalize the idea that those preparations don't cause the Divine to suddenly turn up, but instead tune us into the Divine that was always there.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

RainInanna wrote:



I don't think a lot of people really, truly internalize the idea that those preparations don't cause the Divine to suddenly turn up, but instead tune us into the Divine that was always there.


When I was reading some stuff on Shamanism one statement went along the lines that the searcher has spent so much time looking for the truth of Spirit that he failed to see Spirit right before his eyes on a daily basis.

I think that is true of many religions and peoples take on them. They spend all thier lives looking for god / goddess / Spirit or what ever title they chose that they can't see what it is they are looking for because they are to busy looking to actually see what is before them.

Almost like saying "Sorry Artemis I can't talk to you right now because i'm trying to figure out how to talk to ya!"

[RainInanna]

I think that is true of many religions and peoples take on them. They spend all thier lives looking for god / goddess / Spirit or what ever title they chose that they can't see what it is they are looking for because they are to busy looking to actually see what is before them.

Yes I agree wholeheartedly. I would say that a large part of taking a higher role (such as Shaman or Priestess or what have you) is helping people to see that Spirit. It takes us to the experiential side of the Mysteries. Wiccans will be quick to point out that you don't need clergy to find god, but I think a lot of people are benefited by the help. That's what I was thinking somewhere else about transcending tools and accoutrements as well - that otherwise it can result in "saying "Sorry Artemis I can't talk to you right now because i'm trying to figure out how to talk to ya!"

[Shosha]

Bravo! and very well stated... allow me to interject one small thought:

Science serves only to recite the literal workings of an idea.
It's job is to separate the parts and see what's there... and perhaps how it can be built upon...

the spiritual IS the sum of the parts.

[BearDancing]

I find my life a prayer in progress..talking to the trees, bees,hummingbirds all of nature. I give thanks for hot and cold running water in my shower, I thank all entities invovled. I thank God for the warm sunshine on my face as I drive and pray for all animals bugs.birds, to be safe from drivers on the road and all drivers be safe. If I see a dead animal I pray acknowledging, loving and respecting it for its individual role in this incredible Universe. I honour the elements of my meals for being all that they could be to nourish myself and my family, physically and spirituallly.

For me praying and acknowledging keeps me very close to the sacredness of all. I find being as close as I am it is quite easy for me to feel and sense things around me. Sometimes they talk to me sometimes it is just a feeling or knowing. Noticing when I see 4 fox in one day that the spirit of the fox is trying to catch my attention.

Obviously I live in the country and when I am around people I catch myself unconcuously judging...I notice it and pray that the energies of my judgement does not affect the person in a negative way...that some how catching myself and acknowledging it can affect the flow of unseen energies between us.

The more I bring the sacredness of ALL into my life the better my life is.
If I find myself obsessing or worring too much about something I now know that it is just taking me away from my natural flow...if I am worrying about finances or a lover...it is ""the worrying"" that takes me away from trusting in the Universe and my center...I trust the Universe to bring me to my highest good and when I am in my center I can see an issue.....pray to be open to recieve divine guidance that will give me tools to take care of my issue...it is my job to stay as centered as I can...and as open to recieve as possible. When I try to fix it myself that is when my path is not quite as direct to acheiving my goals. Universal guidance sees all...I only see my small world to base my dissicions on.

This takes much practice...am always catching myself in the worldwinds of insanity and having to stop and release it to the Universe. Time, awareness and practice, practice,practice until it is a natural reaction

I'll stop now...I could go on forever:uhhuhuh:

To all, I love this thread and appreciate all who have shared...:uhhuhuh: