Conversations on magic

[LeftToWonder]

This is rather old, but it struck me as pretty accurate.



You(10:54:26 pm): So Loch Ness is impossible, but magic isn't?
Me (10:54:49 pm): I didn't say they were right, I said they were crazy, and it depends on how you define magic
You (10:55:34 pm): How do you define it?
Me (10:55:59 pm): The ability to alter ones environment through the conscious effort of will.
You (10:56:37 pm): What do you mean by alter?
Me (10:56:49 pm): Change/affect
You (10:57:17 pm): That doesn't seem like magic at all
You (10:57:26 pm): That just seems like doing
Me (10:58:09 pm): That has a pretty broad interpretation, it could mean, magic is you picking up a pencil, and moving it, but magic is also more intangiable. Magic IS doing.
Me (11:00:14 pm): The goal of western magic at least, is based in results. Our mind can acomplish amazing things, but sometimes we need something external to push us towards that, whether we lack the personal faith, or the ability. Ritual is something separate from magic, and the purpose of ritual, as well as god, is to give us a focal symbol, something to "grab on to", that we can focus our will on, to acomplish our goals.
Me (11:03:04 pm): Comments class?:D
You (11:03:35 pm): I think some of what you say is true and some is BS
Me (11:03:59 pm): Thats generally true of everything ever spoken. Care to clarify?
You (11:04:55 pm): Saying magic is doing is wrong,
You (11:04:58 pm): IMO
Me (11:05:17 pm): Why? And then what IS magic?
You (11:05:35 pm): I consider magic the basic idea of it, and don't believe it is real
Me (11:05:45 pm): The basic idea?
You (11:06:29 pm): Telekinesis, casting spells, etc
Me (11:09:25 pm): See, while I might argue with Telekinesis being possible, casting spells is magic, the casting is a ritual, with the intended affect of manipulating your environment to achieve a goal. Magic to me at least, is a personal Alchemy, the changes occur within us, which in turn affects everything around us that we interact with. If I "cast a spell" to make more money, and then proceed to sit around and not go to work, money will never come. The goal of the ritual is to reinforce my desire, and the real magic occurs in the doing of it, I.E. working


Comments?

[Simply Puzzled]

This is rather old, but it struck me as pretty accurate.

Comments?

Your last statement that a money spell will only work if you act on it is false. I have cast money spells and literally sat around until someone offered me a job (for example, my neighbors just "magically" decide to start up a business). You are limiting magic by simply repeating the formula found in Llewellyn books.

[punxzen]

Your last response pretty much diluted magic into nothing more than a placebo.

[David19]

Your last statement that a money spell will only work if you act on it is false. I have cast money spells and literally sat around until someone offered me a job (for example, my neighbors just "magically" decide to start up a business). You are limiting magic by simply repeating the formula found in Llewellyn books.

QFT, I agree, personally, I think magic, when done properly, can do some amazing things, and, it isn't just psychological (meaning, it isn't just for giving you more confidence, in believing you'll get a job or whatever, etc).

[aranarose]

I have to agree with all the others. While I believe that magic works best in conjunction with physical action, I don't think that it necessarily requires physical action. Because if it does, then there really is no point in magic, you may as well take a happy pill, which requires less effort.

[Xander67]

I have to agree with all the others. While I believe that magic works best in conjunction with physical action, I don't think that it necessarily requires physical action. Because if it doe, then there really is no point in magic, you may as well take a happy pill, which requires less effort.

OMG! I soooo dissagree with this post! but it will have to keep untill tomorrow night because I have to go to work...

Chew on this in the meantime...

The work we do in the astral needs to be backed up with work in the physical (in some cases) or else our higher self, (the one doing all the magical work in the astral) will think we are no longer interested in it completing it's task..

I will expand on this tomorrow night I promise, trust me! :)
I had to do an essay on this topic in qaballa class ... so I will use portions of that to support my argument.
:wave:

[RubyRose]

Also, what happens when you cast a spell (I hate that terminology but can't think of any better way to phrase it) and the intended result plays out, but isn't the result you want. Did the spell work, or did it fail?

eg. you carry out a healing spell on a sick pet, but the pet still dies. The spell either worked, easing the pets passing, or the spell didn't work, and the pet should have been made to linger on.

If I'm missing the point forgive me.

[~Elise~]

Also, what happens when you cast a spell (I hate that terminology but can't think of any better way to phrase it) and the intended result plays out, but isn't the result you want. Did the spell work, or did it fail?

eg. you carry out a healing spell on a sick pet, but the pet still dies. The spell either worked, easing the pets passing, or the spell didn't work, and the pet should have been made to linger on.

If I'm missing the point forgive me.

It just means that you were not specific. Universe always takes the shortest route to fullfill magic.
You ask that someone see clearly --they end up wearing glasses. Not the intended result, but it was what you asked.

BE SPECIFIC. In writing your spell you visualize all possible options to your working. Close the door on all other options in the wording of your spell, except the one you want.

Non specific results results from not closing all the other options off.

JMO and YMMV

Elise

[Meadhbh]

Thats the tricky thing with a lot of spells. But since you mentioned healing spells I'll go with that one. Not every one can be saved all of the time. We all have to go some time and it can be hard to come to terms with the that the person in question is meant to die. If they are I don't think its so much that the spell didn't work as it is that somethings are just meant to be not matter what spell you use.

[Simply Puzzled]

The work we do in the astral needs to be backed up with work in the physical (in some cases) or else our higher self, (the one doing all the magical work in the astral) will think we are no longer interested in it completing it's task..


When you say you disagree with the posts, and when you expand on your post, please try to relate it to real life. When you simply use phrases like "our higher self will think we are no longer interested" that simply sounds like mental masturbation to me. I, for one, am not talking theory but experience, and I resent you simply criticizing Aranarose's post (which was short, simple, and accurate) because it disagrees with some Qabalah theory. For example, your post automatically rests on the assumption that we have a higher self. While this might be true, or you might believe this, we have not even come close to the point in the discussion where you can whip that out as premise instead of a conclusion without evening touching on the fact that for many of us, this is real life, not D&D rulebook time. This is, incidentally, exactly the sort of thing I was criticizing the original poster for. You want to post on an Advanced Paganism forum for "going beyond the basics" and then simply regurgitate the same New Age crap found in a dozen Llewellyn books.

So, tell us Xander67, what are your *experiences* that lead you to disagree witha Aranarose?

[aranarose]

Forget mental masturbation; the physical is more fun!

Sorry... Mind is always in the gutter....

Okay... me and magic.... I have no problem with magic. None at all. I think it works, and I don't think it requires physical action, though physical action will certainly help to speed things up and keep things going in the right dirction.

As Elise said, vague magic gets vague results. Physical action can help to reduce some of the vagueness in the magic, because it's a clearer indication of what you are looking for.

I like to be as specific as possible. Lists are my friend. I've got lists and books of correspondences galore, so I can find the herb, charm, etc., that is best suited to the particular situation. Usually several of them, as in Hoodoo, the number of items is often considered more important than the specific items themselves. I also make lists of desires in relation to a spell.

Divination is a must when I do spellwork. Will it help or hinder the situation? Is it just to do so? Some revenge is justified, but hurting someone just because your boyfriend may have left you for them ignores how you contributed to him leaving. If you don't adress that, he might come back, but for how long? It's entirely possible that what a person perceives as an attack on their person is actually them getting exactly what they deserve in the situation.

Once the magic, the working, is done, I let it go to do it's job. I don't do any more, or less, than I would have without the work. If it's a money thing, I continue to do my job, and wait to see what happens. If it's a love thing, I continue to go about my daily routine, and wait to see what happens. I don't actively seek out anymore than what I would have without having done the spell.

Why? Because if I do more than I normally would have, then I'm not trusting my magic, I'm not trusting my power. And since I believe that magic works with our habits and expectations, if I do less than I normally would have, I'm setting myself up for failure, because the magic cannot work as intended.

Think of it this way, if you are a manager for a company, and you have a project that needs to be done, you have certain people that will do certain things toward the completion of that project. If suddenly someone stops working, the whole thing can grind to a halt, or at the very least get bogged down with delays and restructuring. When you cast a spell, it's based on how you've always done things in the past, your normal routine, the normal course of events in your life. And it's expecting to work with that. So if you stop doing what you normally would, it has nothing to work with.

Example:

You decide that you are lonely and cast a spell to bring a man into your life. The Universe, gods, spirits, whatever, look at your life, your routine, and throw that man in there for you to meet at a specific time and place that fits into your routine.

Scenario A: You decide to do more than you normally would, and start going to bars and parties. That guy of your dreams happens to be sitting at the Borders cafe, where you'd normally be on a Friday night, while you're out at a night club, miserable, because you'd rather be at the Borders cafe.

Scenario B: You decide to do less than you normally would, and start staying home, because your spell will just drop Mr. Right in your lap (gods... I wish...) That guy of your dreams happens to be sitting at the Borders cafe, where you'd normally be on a Friday night, while you're sitting at home, miserable, because you'd rather be at the Borders cafe.

Scenario C: You decide to go about your life exactly as you would. You meet the man of your dreams on Friday night, where you always go hang ou at the Borders cafe.

Does that make sense?

Magic is extra. You don't do any more or less than you normally would, and magic, or the Universe, does its extra thing.

[David19]

I have to agree with all the others. While I believe that magic works best in conjunction with physical action, I don't think that it necessarily requires physical action. Because if it does, then there really is no point in magic, you may as well take a happy pill, which requires less effort.

QFT, and, there's one quote that I really think applies here (it's from Witchcraft From the Ground Up (http://web.archive.org/web/20030410071053/www.whywiccanssuck.com/learn0.html)), the author, basically, says magic wouldn't be magic, if it were as simple as lighting some candles, or "all psychological", etc.

If all magic does is make you "feel good", and give you a psychological boost, there are other, easier ways to do that, herbal remedies, pills/medication, even New Age meditation, etc.

[Cassie]

Me (11:09:25 pm): See, while I might argue with Telekinesis being possible, casting spells is magic, the casting is a ritual, with the intended affect of manipulating your environment to achieve a goal. Magic to me at least, is a personal Alchemy, the changes occur within us, which in turn affects everything around us that we interact with. If I "cast a spell" to make more money, and then proceed to sit around and not go to work, money will never come. The goal of the ritual is to reinforce my desire, and the real magic occurs in the doing of it, I.E. working
This may well be the way it works sometimes, but not always. How would that same example work if you were casting the spell not for yourself but for someone else? In such a case the 'inner psychology' or 'personal Alchemy' of your spell casting ritual is virtually irrelevant because the object of your will is not you but another person.

I also disagree with the phrase "The goal of the ritual is to reinforce my desire..." Generally people's desires don't need magic to reinforce them. Magic is more than that. Magic is used to manifest what the will desires; which seems to me to be a much bigger thing.

I'm a big believer that magic works best when accompanied by more mundane work and action. Sure, the best and most simple way to achieve more money normally is to work for it, and if performing a spell adds motivation and encouragment to this, all is well and good. But there will be plenty of situations where people are unable to 'work' more than they already are doing, or where simply working more does not solve the persons immediate financial needs. So I agree with Aranarose that there are times when magic alone can achieve what other actions can't.

[Tanya]

magic is re-enforce by physical doing...

for example.. and i know this seems weird.. but most of my magical 'work' revolves around compost...

(don't get me started)

basically I'm always looking for compost for my garden beds which I'm building up out of subsoil and are spread over an acre or more...

i pretty much refuse to buy it as i can't afford it...

a long while ago, as an experiment... i put out a 'mental call for compost"

i.e. I worked magic to bring compost to my house...lol (i did preface this with I'm weird didn't I? )

anyway....

I descided a responsible person who has put in a requisition should keep checking her mail box right? So I started looking for it... and what do you know... there was my neighbor with this big pile of horseshit the first year I did this.... I got two trailer loads for nothing, and he helped me load it....

last year I 'put out the call' again... and a sign appeared in the local town "1 truckload ruined hay, great for compost... you haul away...."

hehehe

so then I diversified... "how about some pea gravel for garden paths?"

within a month the road crew abandoned 2 tons accross the road from us.....


hehehehe.....

did magic make it happen? did it sharpen my eye for what was around...? can it bring me Fabio next year?

all questions that remain to be answered.

[Xander67]

When you say you disagree with the posts, and when you expand on your post, please try to relate it to real life. When you simply use phrases like "our higher self will think we are no longer interested" that simply sounds like mental masturbation to me. I, for one, am not talking theory but experience, and I resent you simply criticizing Aranarose's post (which was short, simple, and accurate) because it disagrees with some Qabalah theory. For example, your post automatically rests on the assumption that we have a higher self. While this might be true, or you might believe this, we have not even come close to the point in the discussion where you can whip that out as premise instead of a conclusion without evening touching on the fact that for many of us, this is real life, not D&D rulebook time. This is, incidentally, exactly the sort of thing I was criticizing the original poster for. You want to post on an Advanced Paganism forum for "going beyond the basics" and then simply regurgitate the same New Age crap found in a dozen Llewellyn books.

So, tell us Xander67, what are your *experiences* that lead you to disagree witha Aranarose?

ok first of all, Simply Puzzled.
(this entire post is intended to address the cheap remarks you made and answer your questions)

Please do not associate the inner workings of magic with mental masterbation. It is disrespectful to the wonderful forces that aide us when we ask something of it. When I said that I had done an essay for a qaballa class I never said anything about magic being in dissagreement with any qaballa theory. The essay I did was an assignment to explain how I thought the two realms worked in tandom in manifesting change in the outer world.

Like it or not, there is a higher self which is in touch with the universe. We access it when we sleep and recieve guidence. When we perform a magical working, one of the first things we do is plan it out. You should never just cast a spell willy nilly without first having a clear idea of your intention.

THe next thing one should do is to set up the workspace. (altar) This usually involves checking the table of correspondences for the appropriate items you will be using in the spell. (candles, incense, stones, roots, etc)

Also, I am sure it goes without saying to be mindful of the day of the week and which sign of the zodiac the sun is currently in so that you can prepare something to honnor that particular planet if you wish to ask it's help as well as the diety you happen to be working with.

Then it is time to move into the prep time phase..
Before you even think about garbing up, you should spend a few moments in contemplation, going over your notes, making sure you have everything you need that you will be useing in the spell.. (I got careless once because I was in a hurry and forgot to double check everything, the spell called for lighting an orange candle at a certain point and I did not have it so I had to use a white one in its place)

If the spell is serious enough to require me to put on my garb, then I would take a shower at this point. There are two reasons I do this, the first one obviously is to do the proper bodily cleansing and spiritual clenseing. The second is because it is a proven fact that the hot water on the surface of the skin helps stimulate the mind and aides in creativity..

Once I have finished with the cleansing and have put my clothing on, then I can start moving into the work...

At this point, I am going to address your concerns about the higher self and the conscious mind. I do not know what type of magic you do that does not require a connection between your conscious mind and the astral plane but hey whatever, that is for you to work out. Like it or not, this is real life. I am and always will be an advocate for the use of tools and symbols.

A typical working usually involves casting a circle about your workspace to protect it from unwanted negativity that would interfere, I always like to enter into what is known as the alpha state of consciousness before I begin.
During the working, I would invoke the appropriate diety, in the manner prescribed for that spell, lighting the apropriate candles at the right times and using the tools accordingly. Once I raise the energy and am ready to release it I send it forth and dissmiss all that was invoked with a gracious heart.

After the work is done, I like to leave something set out as a reminder of the work I have done throughout the week. Some spells call for repetition so in that case I would leave the Altar the way it is...

Since you felt the need, Simply Puzzled, to insult me before I even expanded on my position, I will explain myself... First of all, I would like to appologize to everyone including Ananarose for my Vauge post. I had seen this thread last night (monday night) just as I was about to log off before going to work and the topic really caught my attention and I wanted to post. I thought about it at work and thought mabey I should have waited untill I had the time to sit and post.. But that does not excuse you, Simply Puzzled for the way you spoke to me. I have and would never do that to you. But you did make me laugh with your little Dungeons and Dragons rulebook remark.

I will agree that there might be those that do not believe or practice as I do, but this is an advanced forum and for those that understand the meaning and the why of the tools and their use, then obviously my mentioning the higher self (astral plane) is appropriate here because the whole "Conscious mind to Higher Self connection" concept is one of the first things one learns when takeing up the craft. But perhaps I was wrong for touching on a beginner topic in an advanced forum. However, since you took offence to it, then I feel I should explain further on the concept in order to bring it out of the realm of your D&D books and into real life...

Depending on your belief, not everyone will have the same definition as to what magic is. Since You asked me to relate my experience to real life, I will assume you were asking me to discuss the method behind my maddness.

There are many definitions but they all support the basic principles of what magic is, and does.

We use magic because we wish to change something in our lives. I like the deffinition that says Magic is the art and science of causing a change in conformity with our will (intent) It is self explanatory and basicly describes what magic is and what we hope to achieve through its use.

The term "Higher Self" is used to describe the deeper level of our selves that is only accessable through our subconscious. But in order to communicate with it we would need to know the language. (again this is all beginner level crap so those that already understand the concept of the universal archetypes by all means please skip ahead )

Our subconscious minds do not think in terms of right or wrong, good or evil.. it simply recieves its instructions and acts on them on the astral plane. It does not always understand what we are saying in our choice of words. This is why it uses symbols when it wants to tell us something in our dreams. The reason the symbols are called a universal language is because the higher self is connects with the devine mind on the astral plane, which links up with every other being in the universe past present and future so therefore it uses a common set of symbols to provide a means of communication.

The symbols help us connect with our subconscious in order to clarify and help declare our intent to the higher self. The higher self recognises the symbols so there is usually no missunderstanding as to the intent behind our spell.
The important thing is that your intent is understood loud and clear by your subconscious mind. If you feel blue is a more appropriate color and the spell calls for pink, then use it by all means if you feel that strongly about it because your subconscious will more likely understand something that is personal to you.

The most important thing is the connection between the conscious mind and the higher self. This is the meat of the spell, the transaction, it is why we have gone through all of the trouble to gather things associated with our intent so that when the point comes during the spell to state our intent to the inner world, there are no doubts.

As I mentioned in my other post which you got so offended by, Simply Puzzled, the subconscious works on the astral level to manifest whatever changes (intent) we made known to it (using the symbols). Our conscious minds can either help or hinder the spell. Silence comes into play here simply because if someone else knew of the spell you spend all that time researching, and casting, they could possibly counter it either directly, or indirectly through doubt. The reason why we are able to counter a spell is because our own individual subconscious is linked with the higher self which is linked with everyone else's (as I stated before)

There is nothing make believe, or imagined about all of this. This is real life. It is how magic works. This is why it is important that we maintain a positive attitude in our thoughts throughout the week or whatever prescribed period of time because even the slightest bit of doubt can mean not getting the outcome you intended.

I like to keep something that I used in the spell set out so that it will be there as a reminder to me and something I can use as a focal point in meditation afterwards to re-inforce the work through creative visualization..

Yes, I do agree with Ananarose to a point as far as after the work is done to forget about it. The subconscious mind cannot do its work if we keep our conscious mind fixated on the outcome constantly. But a little meditation or creative visualiztion does help to serve as a re-enforcement.

Your actions on the physical plane will also serve to help or hinder your spell. This is what I was getting at when I said that if the subconscious mind got the idea we no longer wanted what we cast the spell for, that it would not bother.

Physical work is not always neccisary, I will agree with this. If you can cast a spell to gain a new job and it manifest out of thin air without you submitting a resume or application, then fine. I choose to back up my astral work with something on the physical.

If you are behind in your bills or need extra money and you cast a spell for money.. don't get upset if the money does not show when you say no when asked to work overtime (especially if overtime is rarely available) or you spend money on a want rather than a need. Those two things are examples of things the subconscious will interpret as no longer being interested in your spell's original goal.

On the other hand, the law of retroprocity is one of the laws of the universe and magic always obeys the laws of nature and the universe. THe law of retroprocity basicly states if you give of yourself you will recieve. There are many ways to use this law to work for us. It need not be a monetary donation.. You can volunteer to help at a community function, Buying girl scout cookies counts by the way because that money is used by the scouts.

on that note, what someone does with your donation is on them, if the man in the santa suit takes your donation money and buys beer with it, that is on him not you. You were in compliance with universal law and he will get his.

non, monetary things you can do... there is always a way to contribute to your community if you look hard enough. Even picking up a piece of trash and putting it in the trash can counts because you are careing for mother earth..

yes, I know this was long.. I do appologize for the lengthyness of this post. It took me almost two hours to type because I wanted to make sure I did not answer insult with insult and I covered the questions asked of me.

So there you have it Simply Puzzled, my experience in real life supporting my aggreement and not neccicarly dissagreement with Ananarose's post without regurgitating "new age crap".

By the way, please do not infer an insult to the publishers at lewellyn because there are members here who have books published by them ;)

Donald Tyson put together a nice edit of Arippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy.. If you really want to know where I am coming from, next time you are in a Bookstore and happen to see it, (you cant miss it because it is a big black book with almost 900 pages.) Pick it up, and have a read of pages 5 and 6. :)

Blessed Be
Xan

[Xander67]

QFT, and, there's one quote that I really think applies here (it's from Witchcraft From the Ground Up (http://web.archive.org/web/20030410071053/www.whywiccanssuck.com/learn0.html)), the author, basically, says magic wouldn't be magic, if it were as simple as lighting some candles, or "all psychological", etc.

If all magic does is make you "feel good", and give you a psychological boost, there are other, easier ways to do that, herbal remedies, pills/medication, even New Age meditation, etc.

Good site David! I have gone through it a few times and have reccomended it to friends.

I do agree, there is a hell of a lot more to magic than lighting candles and psychology.. It is a whole faculty of mind. By the way I do think the symbols and the mental connection are important which was why I mentioned it...

there is a lot more, the way we live our lives, the way we treat mother earth,
the influence of the celestial bodies on our lives (astrology) etc..

[Lunacie]

I'm not sure where my brain is taking me this morning, but I guess I'll ride along and see where we're going.

Most of my magic/energy work is of a healing nature. If I were going to be trying to heal someone of a disease I would certainly ask what medical treatment they were getting as well. That is just common sense to me.

And if I were going to help heal a broken bone (and have done so several times) I wouldn't start until a doctor had set the bone and put on a cast.

Not because I don't think it's possible to heal diseases or broken bones with magic, but because getting other treatments maximizes the efficency and produces a better outcome in most cases.


But what I consider my most spectacular magical working was the time I defrosted my hubby's car which was sitting in a parking lot at work about 20 miles from where I was sitting at home, worrying about him driving home on some very icy roads. When the crew got off work at 12:30 am and walked out into the parking lot, the others thought my hubby's car had caught on fire somehow, as it was sitting there in a puddle of melted ice water while the rest of the cars were covered by a thick coating of ice. While the other guys turned on their defrosters and started scraping the ice off their windows, my hubby got into his car and drove away, laughing.

So my question is this, what should I or could I have done physically to back up my defrosting spell to maximize the effectiveness and produce an even better outcome? I can't think of a thing myself.

[Xander67]

well in all honesty Lunacie, I think the only thing you could have done from 20 miles away was call hubby and tell him what you did and not to freak out or anything lol

[RubyRose]

It just means that you were not specific. Universe always takes the shortest route to fullfill magic.
You ask that someone see clearly --they end up wearing glasses. Not the intended result, but it was what you asked.

BE SPECIFIC. In writing your spell you visualize all possible options to your working. Close the door on all other options in the wording of your spell, except the one you want.

Non specific results results from not closing all the other options off.

JMO and YMMV

Elise

Yes, I agree. I probably wasn't as specific as I could have been with that particular spell. Of course it was one of my first spells, years ago now, and I really wasn't sure at the time, whether having the pet pass on and be free of pain, or having it be alive was the better option, as she was already pretty sick to begin with. I didn't want her to die, you see, but I hated knowing she was in pain. I guess those two things sort of counteracted the spell somewhat.

[Lunacie]

well in all honesty Lunacie, I think the only thing you could have done from 20 miles away was call hubby and tell him what you did and not to freak out or anything lol

He's the one who taught me how to use magic (energy), that's why he was laughing his head off as he drove away while the others were just starting to scrape their windows. He was still laughing when he got home. :lol:

[RainInanna]

Me (11:09:25 pm): See, while I might argue with Telekinesis being possible, casting spells is magic, the casting is a ritual, with the intended affect of manipulating your environment to achieve a goal. Magic to me at least, is a personal Alchemy, the changes occur within us, which in turn affects everything around us that we interact with. If I "cast a spell" to make more money, and then proceed to sit around and not go to work, money will never come. The goal of the ritual is to reinforce my desire, and the real magic occurs in the doing of it, I.E. working

I will say I think people would be happier and more successful if they spent more time on magic focused on personal alchemy and recognizing it's benefit. Although extra physical action may not be suitable, I would suggest that where possible, it's more beneficial to work on both rather than the mundane only or the non-physical. It certainly wouldn't make sense to do actions on the physical that are at odds with that done on the non-physical.

[~Elise~]

But what I consider my most spectacular magical working was the time I defrosted my hubby's car which was sitting in a parking lot at work about 20 miles from where I was sitting at home, worrying about him driving home on some very icy roads. When the crew got off work at 12:30 am and walked out into the parking lot, the others thought my hubby's car had caught on fire somehow, as it was sitting there in a puddle of melted ice water while the rest of the cars were covered by a thick coating of ice. While the other guys turned on their defrosters and started scraping the ice off their windows, my hubby got into his car and drove away, laughing.

So my question is this, what should I or could I have done physically to back up my defrosting spell to maximize the effectiveness and produce an even better outcome? I can't think of a thing myself.


You know, Rick and I need to learn this one...it'd save him on cold mornings in the winter defrosting my car and the truck, (because he is a sweetie and most always defrosted the car for me in the mornings before I went to work)

[Phoenix Blue]

Your last statement that a money spell will only work if you act on it is false. I have cast money spells and literally sat around until someone offered me a job (for example, my neighbors just "magically" decide to start up a business). You are limiting magic by simply repeating the formula found in Llewellyn books.
Oh, it can happen. But you shouldn't count on it.

[kaosxmage]

One does not have to see the shaman wiggling his finger to contract the plague he's delivering upon you.

Physical action can assist any magickal work, but it's not required. The act of magick can put you in the proper mindset to notice what you seek around you, or alter your personality in a way that benefits your goal. Once again, this isn't required.

The cabal I've worked with for years has always sought to attain a definite, "yes, that was us!" effect with magick. I can work a sigil or ritual for money, land a decent job, get a raise, etc but I can't lay claim to any of that. It may not be a coincidence, but it's pretty generic. However, when working towards $100,000 in a lump sum payment (safety valves on please) and I get it ...that's good stuff. For the record ...nope, never attempted such an amount because I drive on interstates a lot. That's just inviting terrible intangibles!

We have placed nightmares quite detailed into the minds of others unaware. We've done the same with happy happy joy joy as well for all you karma watchdogs. My favorite experiment is of the "haunted" variety. Seek a haunting, and banish the spirit, recording, ectoplasmic fart into a bottle. Break it in a perfectly sane environment, and wait to see if this replicates.

I'll have to get back to this later, but my point is simple. Magick is real. It's all of the psychobabble feel good stuff, and environmental superspectacles, and outright creepy mystical what's that tentacle in my closet supernatural tool.

The only thing that matters is ...did you get results?

[Lunacie]

You know, Rick and I need to learn this one...it'd save him on cold mornings in the winter defrosting my car and the truck, (because he is a sweetie and most always defrosted the car for me in the mornings before I went to work)

Well, it probably wouldn't save any time, as I may have sat there feeling the warm air blow out of the furnace register and channeling the heat into the spell I was doing, but heck I didn't have anything else to do for those 10 minutes or so except wait and worry about hubby driving on ice. :smileroll

Also, I don't know if this would work on a regular basis or if it's one of those "Yikes I NEED to DO something" magics that depends on really strong desire.

[AugustoSilvanoCato]

Hello all.

I'm a little late like 11 days, lol, but I will say something anyway. I do not believe in reinforcing a work of magick, that is a no! no!. In my experienced as a Witch of low magick and as a Magus of high magick, when you do your spell, Brujeria, Ritual or what ever you call it. Once you have done it it will materialized. That is the whole fun of Magick. If you believe in reinforcing then you are a novice. Now I do not want to offend anyone but if you are talking about this topic here this is not an advance Thread on Paganism.
Bless Be

[David19]

Hello all.

I'm a little late like 11 days, lol, but I will say something anyway. I do not believe in reinforcing a work of magick, that is a no! no!. In my experienced as a Witch of low magick and as a Magus of high magick, when you do your spell, Brujeria, Ritual or what ever you call it. Once you have done it it will materialized. That is the whole fun of Magick. If you believe in reinforcing then you are a novice. Now I do not want to offend anyone but if you are talking about this topic here this is not an advance Thread on Paganism.
Bless Be

Very cool post and info, and, BTW, :welcome: to MW :).

[Lunacie]

Hello all.

I'm a little late like 11 days, lol, but I will say something anyway. I do not believe in reinforcing a work of magick, that is a no! no!. In my experienced as a Witch of low magick and as a Magus of high magick, when you do your spell, Brujeria, Ritual or what ever you call it. Once you have done it it will materialized. That is the whole fun of Magick. If you believe in reinforcing then you are a novice. Now I do not want to offend anyone but if you are talking about this topic here this is not an advance Thread on Paganism.
Bless Be

I don't think that's what the original post was about. But I've lost track of where the discussion went from there.

[Phoenix Blue]

Hello all.

I'm a little late like 11 days, lol, but I will say something anyway. I do not believe in reinforcing a work of magick, that is a no! no!. In my experienced as a Witch of low magick and as a Magus of high magick, when you do your spell, Brujeria, Ritual or what ever you call it. Once you have done it it will materialized. That is the whole fun of Magick. If you believe in reinforcing then you are a novice. Now I do not want to offend anyone but if you are talking about this topic here this is not an advance Thread on Paganism.
Bless Be
I guess it depends on your point of view. I've never been one to sit back and wait for the Universe hand me something on a silver platter. Fortune favors the bold.

[punxzen]

I guess it depends on your point of view. I've never been one to sit back and wait for the Universe hand me something on a silver platter. Fortune favors the bold.

True, but I don't think the poster was saying to sit back and wait, but rather to put the energy out there and let it do it's thing while you go about your life as usual. That is something I will vouch for from my own experience.

Fortune favors the bold :thumbsup:, couldn't agree more.

[David19]

True, but I don't think the poster was saying to sit back and wait, but rather to put the energy out there and let it do it's thing while you go about your life as usual. That is something I will vouch for from my own experience.

Fortune favors the bold :thumbsup:, couldn't agree more.

QFT, and very great post, I definitely agree :).

[AugustoSilvanoCato]

Hello All,

What I'm saying is that when you have the ability to change the astral, the change is a must here in this mundane. I'm not saying you will be handed down anything without effort, but that is why you are a Magician, not only to do spells or rituals when you need help but everyday of you life. I consider my self a full time Magus, everything I do I look at it with magickal eyes. I live Magick. I practice and practice, take notes and rely only on my work experiences. No one works a spell the same way, but when I have one done I make sure its the best for the purpose intended.

"NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU MAGICKAL POWERS. YOU HAVE TO EARN THEM. THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO TO THIS: PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE! IF YOU PROPERLY PERFORM YOR RITUAL, COME IT MUST!"

FROM The wrtings of Donald Michael Kraig, MODERN MAGICK

BLESS BE