Former Catholics vs. Former Protestants

[childofbast]

Do Catholics have an easier time converting to some form of polytheism than Protestants?

I live in Utica NY where there has, historically, been a large population of Italians and Irish. Obviously, there are a lot of Catholics around here. Many of my Pagan friends, including myself, were once Catholic. A handful are former Protestants.

I've noticed that former Catholics have an easier time with polytheism than former Protestants. My theory is, quite obviously, that Catholicism's veneration of the Virgin Mary and various Saints helps to ease new Pagans into polytheism, whereas the former Protestants I know have a very hard time moving away from monism or duotheism. One has even admitted that her Protestant upbringing has inhibited her ability to think and do as other Pagans.

Please note that I am not saying monotheism, monism, or duotheism are inferior to polytheism. Or Pantheism for that matter. I've just noticed a local trend and I'm wondering if others have experienced anything similar? I'd also be interested to hear how people who were formerly of other religions, like Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc transitioned into Paganism and how their former religious experiences have shaped their current situations. Any former atheists or agnostics? Give your input as well!

~Melanie

[cheddarsox]

I've seen trends that support what you say. Catholicism is so much like many branches of paganism, not just in the poly theist approach, but in ritual, spellwork, etc. They are very parallel, many things are virtually indistinguishable.

I was raised Catholic and the shrines people have in their homes, etc. are just like many pagan altars.

Now, that being said...I think it depends on why the religion wasn't working for them. It is my Catholic backround that makes me leery of polytheism. I've become a nontheist pantheist, who eschews all imagery, etc...because of how it was used and mostly abused in the religion of my childhood.

I can't see trading in one set of deities for another...but that's just me, and there is lots of personal and familial baggage that soured me on that faith. But I know it is one of the reasons I am part of such a non magical, non theistic, bare bones faith now.

[Louisvillian]

Personally, I see a lot of similarities between Catholicism and certain pagan religions. Mainly, the ones with strong ritualism, orthopraxy, and ceremonial aspects. Wicca comes to mind as a religion that uses iconography and ceremony heavily as a focus during rituals, which like Catholicism, have a specific structure to them, because the parts to it symbolise certain things.
Even specific ritual events resemble Catholic rituals. The sharing of cakes and ale strongly resembles, to me, the Eucharist or Communion as performed in Catholic masses.
And one cannot forget how much early Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity borrowed culturally and ritually from Classical paganism. A lot of those early influences can still be felt in Catholic rites, liturgy, and festivals.

So, I think that for those reasons, and others, transitioning from Catholicism to paganism is easier than going from Protestantism, which usually eschews much of the symbolism and ceremony. Another thing not yet considered, is that it can also work vice-versa. I know that, though I am very happy and content with the religious path I am in now, if I ever converted to a Christian path, I'd be most comfortable in Roman Catholicism.

[Sage Rainsong]

Well I was a Catholic growing up and I do have to say that accepting things like multiple spirits and magic wasn't that big of a stretch for me. We have all kinds of saints and angels, saint metals, holy oils and folk charms (such as burying St. Joseph's statue on your property if you want to sell your house) However the guilt isn't always as easy to get rid of.

[Sage]

Well out of the big 3, Islam was my religion of practice for about 4 years. But I must state I was a convert, and I am an American. So I think my leaving Islam is very different from say a born and raised Muslim in the Middle East.

Even though, I did go through all the guilt, reluctancy, and tug-a-war. I have always had a reverence for Earth, I didn't do rituals or anything but I did feel and believe in that presence of the Earth (it did feel feminine to me, but I had not dubbed it Goddess.)

Anyway, nowadays I consider myself a very soft polytheist. May be the term monolatry would suite me better? I believe in all deities, but I worship only one at the moment, Danu (I am feeling a call from another goddess, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I worship her just yet.) Personally, I am very drawn to the sacred feminine. I would like to connect with a god, but I am just not there. I think (actually I am quite sure) that the Islamic view of god has really affected the way I see the sacred masculine. And yet, I do still believe in Allah. I don't worship him as Islam prescribes (which might be a bit disrespectful in the eyes of some.) Basically, I believe in the diety but not the exact religion...... a bit strange when I think about it.

I don't use forms (expect the occasional candle) to represent deity. I just have never been comfortable with this, even as a child growing up. I think a lot of the figurines are beautifully done by very talented people, but I just can't bring myself to use them. But shapes like circles and spirals mean a lot to me, I do connect them to my path.

Now having said all that, I have always found Catholicism highly interesting! If I was to ever confess Jesus was God, I would without a doubt be Catholic.

Sage

[LostSheep]

This is something that I've often thought. During the Reformation, and the Catholic/Protestant wars, Catholicism often seemed to be talked about by the harldine Protestants in just the same way as the old "heathen" ways were. The big difference, of course, is all the guilt and sin business; and maybe that's why Catholics feel at home with Paganism; it incorprates much of what they're familair with, and perhaps felt at home with, but it doesn't emphasise the part of it that perhaps they didn't feel comfortable with and was maybe one of the reasons for deciding to leave.

[Cassie]

I was raised Catholic but also attended a Protestant church for a while (because several of my friends went there). I do see more connections between Catholicism and Paganism than with Protestantism. The veneration of the Virgin Mary is pretty much as close as most Christians come to Goddess worship and the pantheon of Catholic saints (each with their particular attributes) is more than a step in the direction of polytheism. Moreover I also think the rituals and practice Catholicism has a bigger sense of mystery and magic than Protestantism.

[alwaysfallingup]

I'll jump in here as a former Protestant, most notably a Southern Independent Fundametalist Baptist. Seriously. That was the church I was raised in as a child...no wearing of slacks for women, no music, no dancing, and a lot more. I actually observed a book and tape burning as a little girl once. However, we didn't observe those rules at home, because they were a little strong for my Mom's taste. When I was 10, we switched over to a more "liberal" (LOL) Southern Baptist church and I attended until I was 18 and moved out on my own. From the time I was 16, I was also simultaneously practicing Goddess spirituality on my own.

I think for someone coming from a Southern Baptist upbringing, it could be hard to view the Gods and Goddesses as distinct personalities because of the emphasis in that church that the old Gods in the Bible were actually demons. This church also preaches that the members of the Catholic church (and basically every other Christian denomination) are wrong, and are deceived into worshiping demons in the form of the Saints and may even be the antichrist!

For me, it maybe was not as hard a transition because despite being raised in this church, my Mom was really open to listening to other ideas, and really had a lot of interest and respect for Native American spiritual beliefs (she spent some time on a reservation as a young woman doing social services-type work). She also felt free to disagree with things our pastor and anyone else in the church said that didn't reasonate with her, so maybe that rubbed off on me.

A quick example: When I was five, my pony was killed during deer season by a hunter. I'm assuming it was an accident, but the person never came forward to apologize. When I asked our pastor to pray for my pony because I wanted to make sure Snowball was in Heaven, he told me that animals didn't have souls and so Snowball was just dead. I burst into tears. My mom took me home, sat me down, and said "You know, Alisha, I'm not sure what that pastor is thinking. He just told us last week that Jesus would be coming back on a white horse, and I don't know how he thinks there are going to be any horses in Heaven if God doesn't let ponies in."

[Fireheart]

Former Southern Baptist as well, although I was brought up less conservative than alwaysfallingup. I have had trouble accepting polytheism, and I also think I would have found rituals easier if I had been exposed to mass earlier. Baptist worship is soooooo informal...there's really no ritual at all.

[RuneCast]

I was raised in a Greek Orthodox / Reform Jewish household. My parents, admittedly, never had healthy relationships with their faiths. My Dad almost ditched my mother when she would not convert. She gently but firmly refused. He married here anyways. They simply didn't talk about it, unless someone in their respective congregations ticked them off. By the time me and my brother came along, they were practicing their faiths in total isolation.
Boys, Christ died for your sins. Son, Christ is not the Messiah.
My brother and I were kept any from services and Sunday school. We were told to read the bible, but mom and dad thought that they should be our only clergy people. If we had questions, we should be talking to them, and no one else.
They told us to read but I think they thought we wouldn't actually do it.
We did.
Even through reading the Bible, I came to understand in my early teens, what a mess the situation was. Christ always seemed like a cool guy, and there was why we'd never be friends. I don't care about cool. I felt a kinship to the prophets and they were the first literary mystics that I encountered through reading.
Then my Dad decided that he was an Atheist. He'd been moving away from the Jewish faith anyways, towards Buddhism, but his last ideas about faith were really scary. Despite non attendance, acrimony with family members and their former church friends, they still wanted to create a 'culturally Judeo-Christian household'.
What does that mean? That means we all still obey the ten commandments, especially honor thy mother and thy father. But we looked at a lot of science stuff and still lit the Menorah candles. My dad screamed at my mother the first time she put her foot down and bought a Christmas tree. When Omi died my mother talked to me and my brother as though we could not possibly, in 18 and 14 years of life, have ever had any ideas about something terrible she called death.
The sheer inevitability of it had presented itself to me years before, after I'd finished climbing a tree one day. Indeed, I panicked, I literally started running. But then, just as suddenly, I stopped and I asked myself, "where are you running to? Where is safe?" The thought brought more comfort then you might think. I mention this only because death was something of a trump card that our parents beat us over the head with.
Funerals were only reminders that we must respect our elders.
Death was a gateway to nothing.
My parents are afraid of death.
But whether or not there's an afterlife, Paganism has taught me that the energy is the defining truth of it all and that even voids are filled with virtual particles. That was the hard part, realizing that I wasn't doomed. The rest of the path was easy.
My conversion to Paganism was to be suffused by The Light. The fear went away and with it the pain. The God is not an abusive father. The Goddess is restored to her proper place as his equal. The Four Elements will assist me in having anything at all to do with reality, if I offer Them the Adoration They are worthy of.
Do I still carry some baggage left over from my childhood?
A matched set.
But...
I'd been searching for a new faith for years before I realized I was a Pagan. Kabbalah, Daoism and Hinduism came first. Even though I didn't know I knew it, I wasn't going to adopt a new faith as a method of rebellion. Experience, revelation and sincerity were the guiding criteria.

[LostSheep]

I'm sure that personal experience is a lot to do with it. I went to a Catholic school, at first, even though we weren't noticeably Catholic, or particularly religious at all really, ourselves, and even there the only noticeably religious part of it was trekking down the road to the local church once a week, which I found rather fun, as (a) it got you out of school for a bit, and (b) it was rather fun in a Gothic kind of way, sitting in this darkened church with the candles and all these dark corners and things. So, even though I subsequently never actually participated in anything of an overtly religious nature, I was never afraid of Christianity or had any dislike of it, beyond perhaps indignation at the Crusades, so now, as I haven't had any pressure to conform to one thing or the other, I've come round to thinking that it's actually quite interesting, as long as you interpret what the Bible says in the context of when and by whom and for whom it was written.

[David19]

I was raised Catholic but also attended a Protestant church for a while (because several of my friends went there). I do see more connections between Catholicism and Paganism than with Protestantism. The veneration of the Virgin Mary is pretty much as close as most Christians come to Goddess worship and the pantheon of Catholic saints (each with their particular attributes) is more than a step in the direction of polytheism. Moreover I also think the rituals and practice Catholicism has a bigger sense of mystery and magic than Protestantism.

I can't give you karma, but I do agree with you, especially your last point, I think Catholicism has a bit more magic, mystery, etc than other branches (that's not to disrespect other Christian traditions, as I find a lot of Christian Mythology, beliefs, rituals, etc very interesting, and, IMO, Catholicism has a kick ass pantheon - deities, angels, demi-gods (Saints), demons, vampires, witches, etc).

[Teresa]

Isn't Roman Catholicism as we know it actually based off pagan beliefs and practices of old? Just asking for some clarification from a Historian type.

[~Elise~]

Not a TRUE historian type, nor do I play one on TV:

Yup

[Teresa]

Not a TRUE historian type, nor do I play one on TV:

Yup

Your word is good enough for me! :thumbsup::giggle:

That is why I believe that it is much easier for someone of a Catholic upbringing than a Protestant. I had a Great Aunt Catherine who actually named me. She was a very devout catholic. She would never have considered herself a "witch" but she helped people from her church and worked her magic with verses from the Bible, Holy Water, Holy Salt, Rue, Hyssop, etc. Special baths with candles lit were recommended on a regular basis by her to help those in need that sought her out. Aunt Catherine read tea leaves and palms, she was an influence in my life. Her famous words were : "Never do anything half way, either give it your all or just don't do it."

[Sage Rainsong]

I can't give you karma, but I do agree with you, especially your last point, I think Catholicism has a bit more magic, mystery, etc than other branches (that's not to disrespect other Christian traditions, as I find a lot of Christian Mythology, beliefs, rituals, etc very interesting, and, IMO, Catholicism has a kick ass pantheon - deities, angels, demi-gods (Saints), demons, vampires, witches, etc).

I have to agree. While I am not Catholic anymore in many ways it can be pretty cool and there are so many odd miracles. As I tell my friend all of the time, "it just isn't Christianity to me if there aren't any bleeding statues."

[David19]

I have to agree. While I am not Catholic anymore in many ways it can be pretty cool and there are so many odd miracles. As I tell my friend all of the time, "it just isn't Christianity to me if there aren't any bleeding statues."

QFT, and very true, I'm glad I'm not the only one :).

[Nitefalle]

I think that one reason may be that Protestantism was born out of a longing to do away with the corrupt hierarchy of Catholicism, and so perhaps an attempt was made to sort of streamline it and dumb it down a bit so that it was more accessible to the common layman? Just a theory on my part.

Today, it seems as if Protestantism is a bit dry, since I was raised Catholic. There just isn't as much pageantry involved - no robes, no altars covered in candles, no magic (transubstantiation, even though it's kinda gross). There's no mystical tabernacle that houses the host and wine. Catholicism also is more paradox-friendly. As a child, I used to constantly argue with my mother over the Holy Trinity; why were there three separate people (eg, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit) if they were all just different aspects of God? Of course, I didn't understand about aspects and avatars and such, then as I do now and see how that opens you up to the Mystery of faith and religion. I appreciate my upbringing and think that it helped prepare me for Paganism. I now revel in the greater Mysteries even as I seek to understand them. If I ever ended up going back to the Church, I would definitely be Catholic.

[tallwoman.9169]

I was brought up Protestant. The religion I was raised in had it's roots in common with the Mormon church. I left that as an adult and became a fundamentalist charismatic Christian. Although I differed from my fellow Christians in that I believed that God was not limited to being male. The Polytheism was difficult at first. I went with the all gods are one at first, I think as a way for me to accept a pantheon. Now that I have met a few entities/deities, and seen the huge range and differences, I've had to move to a belief that there are many Gods and Goddesses, each different. I think I needed to gradually edge my way into polytheism. On the other hand, the reliance on intuition, a gut feeling, following the "Holy Spirit" was a great way to grow into intuition. So the Protestantism made some things more difficult, others easier.

[MariThorn]

As a Catholic Witch who converted from Southern Baptist, I would say it is much easier for a Catholic to be a witch or Pagan. Not only do you have the rituals, the high or low mass, the rosary, the saints, the customs, the tradition, etc. You also have the Catechism which accepts other religions as valid paths to Truth, and even speaks of the fact that God must be Father and Mother. If one has studied their Catechism well, then the idea of God and Goddess is not a far step. I find it fits well in my life.

Catholicism is straight off of Judaism with all of its lovely pagan backgrounds. We even start our days at sunset. What the Reformation did was through Tradition out the door, and if it was not physically written in the New Testament as something Jesus instituted, then it was unholy. It is funny though, because aside from the veneration of the saints and the Holy Mother, many things Protestants protest are done today in their churches under different terminologies. Truth will out ROFL

[coeur]

I'll give this argument: Protestantism is a much more recent development in history and the whole psychology of Protestantism is more modern than the psychology of Catholicism which has been around since...I guess the day Jesus kicked the bucket. Protestantism emphasizes an individual connection with God, bypassing the hierarchy of priests, nuns, friars, bishops, popes, etc. and going almost straight to the heart of God. Protestants, especially in this day and age, believe that it is personal belief and strength of their belief that is more important than ritual, worship, or even church attendance. Some people have wildly un-Catholic views like my co-worker who believes that God will save the good people regardless of their religious affiliation. It's not wrong, it's just so off of the beaten path that you can only call it an extremely personal interpretation of the Bible.

This is not to say that Catholics cannot have personal relationships to God, but they tend to believe that there are some very important rituals that must be done in order to properly save their souls/glorify God. There's a more systemized way of thinking in place, one that is not unlike the nature-based calendars of neo-pagan religions. For Catholics, ritual is part of the celebration of God and they are probably more aware of external actions and processes as a religious necessity than Protestants: the Church, the hierarchy, etc.

For a pagan, especially a nature-based pagan, the external is more likely to rule the internal: external forces like nature, seasons, gods, goddesses, Fate, etc. Much of paganism is about finding one's place in a system and recognizing that that system is a lot larger than you and you've got to obey it or else you'll face the wrath of said system. That's not unlike Catholicism at all and while Protestants certainly recognize God as higher than themselves, they don't necessarily recognize many concrete worldly things that have to be higher than themselves.

So in conclusion: Protestants lean towards individualism and finding how one individually fits in God's favor, while Catholics lean toward a hierarchal mentality and followers seek to find favor and validity in a system that they see the worldly effects of everyday be it in a priest or a ceremony, etc.

[tellmethetruth]

Another Baptist here. In some ways, I was raised by the church. My parents had problems, so I kind of adopted the church as my parents. Despite all of the things I have against the church, I do feel that any spirituality is better than no spirituality and I truly do appreciate a lot of the things they did for me. That said, though, they also scared the bloody crap out of me and managed to delay my pagan awakening until I was in my 30s.

We were constantly threatened with 1) eternal damnation and 2) Satan or his demons possessing our souls. If we stepped into another church (not a pagan place, mind you, just - say - maybe a Lutheran church) we were in danger of losing our eternal souls. If we listened to "Rock & Roll music", especially while we were drifting off to sleep, we were likely to wake up possessed in the morning. I remember the church ladies telling stories about kids who had Rock & Roll posters on their walls (KISS was their favorite band to tell these stories about) and how the eyes of the band members on the posters started to glow red and then the entire poster caught fire, or a tongue of fire came out of one of the band members mouths - stuff like that. As a child, I was always worried Satan was going to rise up through my bedroom floor and grab me and carry me down to Hell.

My family moved into town and we were right across the street from a regular Christian church (nondemoninational maybe - they just called themselves "Christians"), and I started going there - every Wednesday and twice on Sundays. They weren't nearly as mean and scary as the Baptist church, but my old Baptist preacher got so upset about me losing my soul that he came to my house, tears streaming down his face, and begged my mom to start sending me back to his church.

So - you can imagine how difficult my pagan awakening has been. When you're raised under those conditions, it's very hard to completely get rid of the fear of demons - and the gods and goddesses, spirits etc. were all considered demons.

What helped me finally wake up was my divorces. We were taught that once you got a divorce you were an adulteress forever, and that it was very hard to be forgiven for adultery. I tried really hard after the first divorce but after the 2nd one I decided that I was going to Hell anyway so I may as well see what all this taboo stuff was about.

My husband was raised Lutheran, and he doesn't have any of those problems. I don't know if his church was super liberal, or if all Lutherans are like this, but they actually encouraged their members to explore their spirituality and make their own decisions. Not all protestant religions are bad.

It seems to me that the stricter the church the more likely members are to leave it. I don't know how it is for Catholics. We were taught that the pope was the antichrist, so I never really explored it. I'm curious about all the saints, etc. Maybe Catholicism really is paganism in disguise - which would be a good thing.

[Shosha]

As a former Baptist, and after talking to a few others of my ilk, it seems to me we had not only a hard time with the idea of multiple deities, but also (at least at first) an adversion to any male deities.

After the harshness and dogma forced upon us... and particularly on females (mind you I am NOT a feminist) in that type of demonination, the idea of any male deity brought up a lot of old hurts.

However, eventually, I got over it. I kept at myself and talking with the goddesses in my life, and finally got through to me that not all gods are the same!