Nature Spirits and Love?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

In another thread on nature spirits a link was provided to an off-site article on nature spirits and working with them. While I agree with parts of the article it made me wonder at the "Spread Love and White Light" motiff that filled the article.

It always amazes me the number of "Fill the area with love" or similar concepts that are presented when dealing with nature spirits or spirits of place. Yet the very concept of love is a human emotion and I've yet to meet a nature spirit or spirit of place that understands the concept.

Truthfully, everytime I read of a "Fill it with love" I can't help but get the image of a bunch of people in a city park who have never encountered a nature spirit or spirit of place. Yes, plently of encounters with what they imagine and want to see, but never a spirit.

Perhaps it is just me, but each instance I have encountered a spirit of place they are very primordial. There is no "Lucky Charms" type of figure or personality. Yes, there is a deep seated figure that is old and dwells in a pool of energy. Many acknowledge you as a part of the greater whole, but often at the expense of your place in your minds persception.

To many we have been nothing more than a blink of an eye in their time awareness. Much a kin to a gnat that has landed upon them and they become aware of it for it is in their presence but beyond that not much more.

Occasionally, one may get a closer look. For instance if their natural energy flow is changed or impeeded they may express an awarness of thanks for your assitance in changing it or correcting it. Yet at the same time it's not that big of a deal for it has happened before and will occur again as nature changes the setting they reside in.

When I've walked on the mountian ridges or in the deep valleys, none of the areas wanted love. Yes, they wanted respect for them and an awareness of them but love meant nothing. The animals and other peoples wanted to know what you intended. Where you something to be afraid of or where you just another creature in the area?

Sort of like the spirit of a river, it is aware of its passage and the bed upon which it lies. Sometimes a memory of the lands it passes through or the creatures that exist within its currents or upon its shores. Yet reach out to it and touch its world view and the land dweller versus the river almost makes it beyond understanding.

Yet, I wonder if in their haste to "Fill it with love" do they not actually remove it from them. You may profess as much love as you desire but it will not get you close to the creatures of the land. No amount of "love" will make the deer stand there. Yes patience and slow movements will allow you to get close and just perhaps allow the deer to not view you as a threat.

Some are so old and primordal that the very presence of a person is enough to sicken them. You may call to them or speak as nicely as you desire but it will not change their attitude towards you. Many are in such a deep though that they don't even acknowledge you as being present.

In some ways it seems as if by 'Filling it with love and white light" they try to take the lion out of the picture so they only see the little kitten. When all that remains is the kitten there is no danger or extremes to the encounter.

Perhaps I just mis-understand their concept of "Love". Approach all spirits of place and nature with respect, yes I agree with. Be aware of your presence within their domain and you impact upon it I agree with also. Spread your awareness of place and move slowly to become a part of it and feel it, I couldn't agree with more. Speak to it? Yes, for many times ou voice conveys our attitude towards it and respect for it.

But love and white light? Sorry, if I go into the forest I want to see the residents of the forest as they are not as I would like them to be to make it feel safer or calmer for me.

[Rudas Starblaze]

i couldnt agree with you more. to me, its a fairy tale concept to relate "love" with nature, especially since nature is just as quick to kill as it is to do anything else. but yeah, i can see how city people who have never really encountered nature before can attempt to bring something that doesnt exist to it. going to a park or whatever doesnt count as nature IMO. sure theres nature in it, but its not natural nature where theres no paths, nothing mowed, everything is overgrown, and your chances of walking into a giant spider web between 4 or 5 fully grown trees is a pretty damn good.

[BlackLili]

Good thread. :thumbsup:

[RainInanna]

Yes, there are many variations and understandings of love. In particular you might look into Thelema's understanding of the term. It needn't have anything to do with romance or frou-frou feelings, and at times is more aligned with ideas of natural order, balance, justice, and the Kemetic concept of ma'at.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Where it being looked at in the concept of Ma'at or even a Native American concept I might buy it but I highly doubt that is how they are viewing it. Far to often it seems as if it is in the "New Age" neo movement of things.

What really gets me though is that the world is not this safe, happy place where wishing for love and goodness is going to make it so. I sometimes wonder just what is defined as a Spirit of Place or nature Spirit by the collective at times. Far to frequent it seems to be some preceived 'Elf" or similar type creature if not some Nymph.

Many of the elder Spirits of Place and Nature Spirits are not that friendly and have a strong mistrust of things human. Some of the deep dwellers can only be contacted via deep caverns or deep sink holes or deep pools of water.

In my experience many of the Spirits of Place or Spirits of Nature are extremely seclusive and difficult to find without going deep into the woods or far out to the deep waters. They are often found in very remote area's which are nearly impassable to get to. Many times wildlife surrounds them and does one heck of a job re-directing you away from the spots.

On more than one occasion I discovered that to get to the spot you had to come near it many times and show you respected it. You didn't just rush in but literaly had to earn the right to get closer and closer until you were granted passage. When you found the paths that had been hidden but suddenly opened before you.

But to get to those points for me it always took respect for the area, a sincere driver to get ahead but be willing to go at the rate the area allowed. Talk to the spirits, both greater and lessor that guarded the area, many times to convence them that you should be allowed to go on. Recognize the dangers of the area, but work with it and not against or above it.

Frequently, it also took being called to the area. By having that desire that ran so deep you would stop in the middle of the road and get out and just start walking. That subtle call that filled the mind when ever you passed a certain area and felt the pull to just head off into the woods. Nothing else mattered, only getting to the point were the call was coming from.

Like being in a trance you moved forward, sometimes aware of the passage of time and distance, other times just moving. Through ravines strewn with downed tree's and rock slides that would break an ankle in a heart beat, but knowing where to place your foot as you moved forward.

But love? No that is one word I never would use to describe what occurs!

[Convallaria]

More often than not, when I encounter nature spirits, I get a little frightened. ...if I filled the area with love, it would be to make myself feel better!

[MonSno_LeeDra]

If you fill the area with love because it frightens you does that not make the encounter false?

It seems like it would be similar to seeing a Bear in the woods but calling it a Teddy Bear to lesson the fright of it. Yet in the process you never experience the Bear or its magic, only the encounter with the Teddy Bear.

To face your fear seems more like making it real than to change what you face. One is living and breathing real, the other only a refusal to face what is before you.

I once followed an inner voice that kept calling me while I lived in CT. I ended up on the edge of a massive rift valley with a significant fall off. My fear of what could happen held me back at first so I only observed from a distance. Yet once I faced my fear and stepped forward the result was far greater than anything I could have imagined from standing back.

Had I tried to hide or mask the feeling I would never have experienced the fullness of the place.

[Zephyrstorm]

What a great thread.

I suspect that the idea of filling the "area" with love is born out of a lack of experience with the spirits. Some of them are capable of affection, sure, but we can't assume that their emotions are ours. Some of them are very alien in perspective, after all.

[SphinYote]

Thank you.

I've always felt a bit uneasy reading texts like that, as i they were somehow missing the point. I think you've clarified why I felt that way, I never could articulate it well before, but knew it had to do somehow with definitions of consciousness, emotional states, and perception.

Will be thinking more on this. It seems to tie in to my own notions and hangups about use of energies and consent, just not sure if I can articulate how yet even to myself....

Yote

[Convallaria]

If you fill the area with love because it frightens you does that not make the encounter false?

It seems like it would be similar to seeing a Bear in the woods but calling it a Teddy Bear to lesson the fright of it. Yet in the process you never experience the Bear or its magic, only the encounter with the Teddy Bear.

To face your fear seems more like making it real than to change what you face. One is living and breathing real, the other only a refusal to face what is before you.

I once followed an inner voice that kept calling me while I lived in CT. I ended up on the edge of a massive rift valley with a significant fall off. My fear of what could happen held me back at first so I only observed from a distance. Yet once I faced my fear and stepped forward the result was far greater than anything I could have imagined from standing back.

Had I tried to hide or mask the feeling I would never have experienced the fullness of the place.

What I said was more of a joke. If a person is fluffy enough to do such a thing as to attempt to fill a place with love, it would be because they wouldn't want to have a deep encounter with the spirit. I wasn't implying that this is what I do, I was only saying that if I were to do it, that would be the only reason.

I agree with you in that masking what it is you're experiencing makes the entire experience rather spurious. My personal fear of nature spirits comes from my recognition that they're not concerned with me. Somehow it's unsettling when you face your own unimportance.

The fear is also the fear of the unknown. Encountering spirits that are new to me is a jarring feeling sometimes. I have mistaken mystery for animosity, and animosity for nonchalance. I'm admittedly not experienced, but I've never had the urge to fill a place with love.

My point was only that someone with such an impluse as to do such a thing as to fill a space with love might only be doing it out of fear.

Having said all of this, I've had experiences with what would commonly be known as fairies, who I also feel to be nature spirits, and yet they're lively, aware and interested in whats going on around them. Do you believe that extending a loving feeling to them would be ridiculous?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Do you believe that extending a loving feeling to them would be ridiculous?


That's actually sort of hard to answer. I think part of it would hinge upon do I preceive them as others do?

For instance I realize that tree spirits may exist but I hold they would be more like thier historical picture in that they would hold a feeling for a given tree but not beyond that tree. So would they actually know what love is as defined by human perspective? I do not think so nor do I think they could comprehend love as human to human vice creature to home.

I think they could preceive a person who had a negative intent towards their tree or themselves. I think they may recognize a persons sense of respect for the tree and the keeper, but I believe it would be like the seperation between a fan on the side lines and a player actually on the field. You may experience the general rush but can not known the indeapth sensation of being on the field. Hence, you might feel for the tree (which they might feel) but could not love it like the keeper of the tree does.

Yet take it to the concept of trooping faires versus solitary faries and it becomes a bit different. A solitary may not feel it as they spend their life in a solitary mode, a trooping fairy may as they spend their life in a group with the potential of relationships beyond the magical nature of the group. Sort of are they members of the Seelie Court or Unseelie Court?

If one deals with a sealkie, perhaps a sense of love could be felt as they have a history of limited love between human and selkie.

Where I find it interesting is that many people think of fairy rings and such and other worldy personas. When I was in Scotland I would have spoken to the fae as it was heavy in Trooping and Solitary beings. The bit of Irish heritage I hold keeps them in the back of my mind so they are real to me to a degree.

But like my ancestors, I think they tend to play with us more than actually relate to or understand our emotions.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Those of us who know the Faery Language , know the
true sonics , and value of the word "Love"...

As has been said in different traditions , esoterically based ,
"Love" , is a Force , not a human emotion...

The word , as spoken in our language , "Leguu Os Eel An" , creates a binding force in the matrix of existence...

I do agree the way most relate to it , is without this full
awareness , yet an underlying need to create this bond
may be the cause for their suggestion...

I have seen the Web of Light , interconnecting all things
after vibrating these sonics , during retual...:uhhuhuh:

Just a thought...

[MonSno_LeeDra]

If the word was being used in an "Old" sense then I could see it as possibly a hidden cultural memory. In that content I can see the inner - connection of the parts and the silver threads that bind all things together. In that capacity I believe it would be like Ma'at or Chi or one of the other elder concepts of force and format that holds things in alignment and balance.

If used in the sense that to know a things name is to have power over it and binding with it, even if used in the concept of the spirit that binds us all as one, I could see it. But in my heart of hearts I do not think that is thier usage or meaning of its usage. Far to frequently it feels like a mirror that is placed so the true meaning is lost or ignored in favor of the "safe" and "happy" version.

If I had read some of this 20 or more years ago I would have though of the elder concept and the threads. Today it just does not resonate that way to me.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Agreed , Mon Sno Lee Dra...that is why I phrased my
statement as I did...

I believe , and know , most humans , including many
pagans , act on subconscious robotic behaviour patterns ,
yet are responding , many times , to innate needs , which
are embedded deep within the psyche...

I do believe this is the root of this modern practice...

Regardless of the "all is good and light" complex...

There is a deeper need to connect all lifeforms by word...

And the current paradigm uses this word , "love"...

Blame the 60's programming..."All You Need Is..."

[RainInanna]

But love? No that is one word I never would use to describe what occurs!

You mentioned respect, desire, and dedication.

Perhaps I'm strange, but those are the very things I associate with love.

I can't brush other people's words aside based on "just doubting" they were thinking something profound and meaningful.

I think people would get a lot further spiritually if they focused less on assuming people are fluffy airheads and started trying to find the value in people's ideas.

The fact that the world is not a safe, happy place is the very reason many try to lean more towards ma'at, justice, order, balance, and love. Because we *do* need more of it. If the world were full of it, we'd hardly need to build more of it.

There's nothing wrong with wanting more love in the world.

[childofbast]

Very interesting thread. I agree with a lot of what you say, MonSno LeeDra, although I don't think I've had more than a feeling of knowing a nature spirit is around. I don't know if I've ever seen a nature spirit indirectly, and I know I've never met one head-on.

~Melanie

[Malcolm]

Love and light? You'd probably have better luck with Blood and Fire. :smile:

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Zephyrstorm wrote;


born out of a lack of experience with the spirits.

I think that is probally true. I know when I was younger I used to think that many were the happy go lucky creatures we heard of in tales and stories.

Even in my youth when I found a place it was usually in a secluded area of the woods and the area felt of a warmth. Sort of hard to explain, but it was like I had friends there and could spend hours in their company. Animals seemed friendlier and even seemed to come closer, and I never new fear.

It took a while before I had a friend that came with me and I saw the unwelcome side of things in his presence. Bee's that swarmed the area, flies that bit and buzzed us. Stinging bugs that I had never seen before.

For a long time I was scared to go back, but when I did it was as if nothing had changed for me, the same warmth and friendly creatures. I always though of that place as having a female energy and like a grandmother that watched over me.

One thing was for sure, when she decided she did not like that one friend she let us know.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

sunset_winds wrote:



I was only saying that if I were to do it, that would be the only reason.



Ok, mis-read that part or the intent of it anyway.



My personal fear of nature spirits comes from my recognition that they're not concerned with me. Somehow it's unsettling when you face your own unimportance.



I know what you mean there. In some ways it reminds me of the movie "The Neverending Story" where the young hero meets the ancient turtle in the swamp. He is of so little significance to her that she barley acknowledges his presence, then when she does it's like "I see you but please leave as soon as possible!"

But she also show's something else, it's been so long since she has spoken to another person she is a little off and has developed a split personality by talking to herself.



The fear is also the fear of the unknown. Encountering spirits that are new to me is a jarring feeling sometimes. I have mistaken mystery for animosity, and animosity for nonchalance.


Very true

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Malcom wrote:



You'd probably have better luck with Blood and Fire


You know, you may not realize just how true that is! There is an old mine in the area where my parents live, and let me tell you what is in that mine just loves that concept.

I don't know whether it was native to the area or just found its way there, but it is one dark creature. I must admit that is one place I have no desire to go to or see.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

RainInanna wrote:



I think people would get a lot further spiritually if they focused less on assuming people are fluffy airheads and started trying to find the value in people's ideas.



Ah, but your sort of jumping to the conclusion that they were seen as fluffy.

I think many problems arise from the thing that ties us together, our ability to express ourselves and communicate. It's not to say we don't find merit with an idea or concept, the problem lies in our indiviudal understanding of a words meaning versus what the social meaning of a word indicates.

For instance, the word love to me as implied from the article referenced ment...Happy happy joyful joyful lets throw flowers and everything will be fine...I love you , you love me and the whole of the world will love us back...

I ddi not say I found faught with the theory or concept as a whole only that facet of it.

But I do know i've been up the river, around the bend and accross the pond enough to know that some things are just pissy no matter how much you want to treat it nice. No matter how many flowers and things you give it, it will not change and only pisses it off even more.



The fact that the world is not a safe, happy place is the very reason many try to lean more towards ma'at, justice, order, balance, and love


If love is defined as the above plus respect, honor, acceptance then I would agree with your presented defination of love and say that it would be worthwhile and correct as included in the initial referenced article in my opinion.

[RainInanna]

Ah, but your sort of jumping to the conclusion that they were seen as fluffy.

Without getting into that tired ol' debate of who's fluffy and why (I hope)


but I highly doubt that is how they are viewing it. Far to often it seems as if it is in the "New Age" neo movement of things.

What really gets me though is that the world is not this safe, happy place where wishing for love and goodness is going to make it so.

Yes, what you describe there is how many define fluffy, so I did assume you were calling them fluffy.


If love is defined as the above plus respect, honor, acceptance then I would agree with your presented defination of love and say that it would be worthwhile and correct as included in the initial referenced article in my opinion.

Fair enough.

I'm afraid I don't know the article to which you refer, if you link it I'd probably see what you mean.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Here's a link for the article in reference

http://www.witchway.net/ritual/nature.html

Here's the original thread that inspired my thread

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=196969&highlight=nature+spirits

[Sage Rainsong]

In another thread on nature spirits a link was provided to an off-site article on nature spirits and working with them. While I agree with parts of the article it made me wonder at the "Spread Love and White Light" motiff that filled the article.

It always amazes me the number of "Fill the area with love" or similar concepts that are presented when dealing with nature spirits or spirits of place. Yet the very concept of love is a human emotion and I've yet to meet a nature spirit or spirit of place that understands the concept.

Truthfully, everytime I read of a "Fill it with love" I can't help but get the image of a bunch of people in a city park who have never encountered a nature spirit or spirit of place. Yes, plently of encounters with what they imagine and want to see, but never a spirit.

Perhaps it is just me, but each instance I have encountered a spirit of place they are very primordial. There is no "Lucky Charms" type of figure or personality. Yes, there is a deep seated figure that is old and dwells in a pool of energy. Many acknowledge you as a part of the greater whole, but often at the expense of your place in your minds persception.

To many we have been nothing more than a blink of an eye in their time awareness. Much a kin to a gnat that has landed upon them and they become aware of it for it is in their presence but beyond that not much more.

Occasionally, one may get a closer look. For instance if their natural energy flow is changed or impeeded they may express an awarness of thanks for your assitance in changing it or correcting it. Yet at the same time it's not that big of a deal for it has happened before and will occur again as nature changes the setting they reside in.

When I've walked on the mountian ridges or in the deep valleys, none of the areas wanted love. Yes, they wanted respect for them and an awareness of them but love meant nothing. The animals and other peoples wanted to know what you intended. Where you something to be afraid of or where you just another creature in the area?

Sort of like the spirit of a river, it is aware of its passage and the bed upon which it lies. Sometimes a memory of the lands it passes through or the creatures that exist within its currents or upon its shores. Yet reach out to it and touch its world view and the land dweller versus the river almost makes it beyond understanding.

Yet, I wonder if in their haste to "Fill it with love" do they not actually remove it from them. You may profess as much love as you desire but it will not get you close to the creatures of the land. No amount of "love" will make the deer stand there. Yes patience and slow movements will allow you to get close and just perhaps allow the deer to not view you as a threat.

Some are so old and primordal that the very presence of a person is enough to sicken them. You may call to them or speak as nicely as you desire but it will not change their attitude towards you. Many are in such a deep though that they don't even acknowledge you as being present.

In some ways it seems as if by 'Filling it with love and white light" they try to take the lion out of the picture so they only see the little kitten. When all that remains is the kitten there is no danger or extremes to the encounter.

Perhaps I just mis-understand their concept of "Love". Approach all spirits of place and nature with respect, yes I agree with. Be aware of your presence within their domain and you impact upon it I agree with also. Spread your awareness of place and move slowly to become a part of it and feel it, I couldn't agree with more. Speak to it? Yes, for many times ou voice conveys our attitude towards it and respect for it.

But love and white light? Sorry, if I go into the forest I want to see the residents of the forest as they are not as I would like them to be to make it feel safer or calmer for me.

You know I think that there is a valid point to be said that not all spirits will like you no matter what you you do but I don't think that that necessarily negates the practice of sending "love" energy. It may be a human concept but there is an intention in that method. It is that when you are sending love to unknown spirits, you are bringing your awareness to them and you are sending your good will, respect, and adoration to them in hopes to please them and establish fruitful communication. I think that it would be more effective to send love than it would be to say, "HEY! You spirit, I'm freaken talking here!!" I just don't think that because a practitioner wants to send loving energy to a place that it makes their experiences and methods invalid. However, I do believe it to be a mistake to think that any spirit will love you if you send love to it. Personally this is not my method but I don't that that the method in the article is invalid in any way.

[Malcolm]

Malcom wrote:



You know, you may not realize just how true that is! There is an old mine in the area where my parents live, and let me tell you what is in that mine just loves that concept.

I don't know whether it was native to the area or just found its way there, but it is one dark creature. I must admit that is one place I have no desire to go to or see.


Oh, I know exactly how true it is. :hehehehe:

Never met one that didn't like either...regardless of their disposition.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Hmmm,

In retrospet I wonder if that is not a true statement for all spirits of place and nature? You really don't think about it but on more occasions than I can recall I became aware of them after I had a fire going in thier boundary area.

Yet, I do not know if the fire called them to me or just showed where I was at to them. I think more of the later for it seems I always am drawn to the area before hand.

I do know blood was a requirement for one deep earth water spirit I worked with. A few drops to start the ceremony and a few to end it a few days later.

[Sequoia]

The problem with generalizing what types of energy to send to "nature spirits" is that there are a million and one types of "nature spirits"... who is to say that any two are the same? One "nature spirit" may indeed react to a "loving" (peaceful, calm, accepting) energy. Another may not. Another may try to eat you for it. You just never know.

Each experience should be tailored to that experience. You wouldn't speak to a six year old the same way you would speak to your boss, or the president. You wouldn't say the same things to your mother that you would say to your best friend. (Just examples, folks, I know some people are very close to their mothers.) Just so, you must be aware of the specific situation you are in with regards to spirits, and adjust your communication methods appropriately.

There are some "nature spirits" I wouldn't even consider bothering to "talk" to, simply because they aren't exactly the conscious type. They're more like forces of nature to be reckoned with, to be accessed or manipulated or avoided. "Love and Light" would be useless in such a circumstance.

So... really, in closing, I think it all depends upon circumstance. You must tailor your actions to appropriately match your situation. There is no, "One-Size-Fits-All" energy working.

[Shanti]

Nature...the picture..

*narrative*
'After the volcano had devastated the landscape, new growth appears. Nature healing and reviving from the chaos.'

~Pan in camera, close up of lone sapling just emerging from the ash~


*narrative*
The tiny sapling draws nutrients from the ash and burned vegetation, renewing once again the cycle of the tree.

~camera pans out~

*new view*
~deer walks through, Bends down. Bites little saplings top off. Proceeds through munching happily. No more tiny sapling~

Lesson..nature isn't anything, no love, no hate, no human judgment.
Nature just is.

Her spirits are equally unbiased and un-judging, un-labeling.
They also just are.
Nature nourishes all through the circle of life 'and' death. All reap her goods and her not so goods, the good, bad, and indifferent all are equal. Nature is pure in her lack of human attributes.

[BearDancing]

Your experiences are your own.....my experiences are the opposite of yours....I have felt nothing but imense LOVE from nature and animal spirits....for me as my journeys expanded so does my own capacity for LOVE....I have only once experienced extreme anger witih the animal spirits and I was shown that the anger was not towards me but directed to all that did not understand and respect nature,,,these spirits were in their words caught between worlds because of human disrespect and ignorance.....I was kindly asked to pray for any dead animal, bird,bug,snake etc that I see in my life...I have been praying for them for 20 yrs now....it was explained to me that through prayers of acknowledgment and respect somehow their spirits are not trapped per say and their spirits moved on to where ever thier spirits move on to....Realistically I fear only one thing in the physical animal world...I know I should not but it still does...one of my power animals is a cinnamon bear...I have had a relationship with such for 18 yrs....I spend very much time in the wild as I live in the country...I have the strongest feelings that if I ever did a vision quest that the physical bear would come right up to me....that scares the $%#$ out of me...yet when it is time I know I will do it and I think I will be paralised with fear...yet I will still do it....in my vision the bear is not out to hurt me just to be with me physically as it has been with me spiritually but it still scares the *&^& out of me....

I sit quietly and watch animals extensively...I have felt the feellings of the actual animals (empathic) without contact spiritiiually and I have never felt fear from them...I have felt deep sadness and puzzlement from them for not understanding ....when I am in contact with a doe and a fawn it is not fear I feel from her it more like concern...it is her natural instinct to signal her fawn and teach the fawn...not fear...

I experience great amounts of love with *spirits guiding me*...not so much from the physical animals, birds...for me when I spiritually connect with animal, bird ect....the amount of LOVE is in increasing amounts the longer I have the relationship with the spirit...

For me with Immense love and respect is when I experience the most with nature.....plants, animals, rocks,etc...all that vibrates....I see nothing wrong with anyone projecting LOVE in any situation...and what is white light...it is definately in my opinion nothing that is not of love...I have no experience witih elves or wee people other than flower fairies...so I can not speak of that...

We are human...we project who we are....our experiences...etc....there is always a projection of some sort....I conciously choose to project Love....to me love encompasses respect...that is my personal experience with all of Nature.....spiritually and in physical form....I truly beleive that the experience we are to recieve is the experience we WILL recieve.....no matter what U project....so we are really not in control....no matter how hard U try to make contact ...if the vibration does not want to share with U it will not...

[daphnerose]

I've been many places that were peaceful, one spot in particular stands out in my mind, but in feeling it out it was more about the feeling of the humans that had been there before, not neccesarily any natural entities that lived there. As Monsnow stated also, theres only one place I can think of that I truly felt that the nature spirits were welcoming towards me, but it certainly wasn't loving, it was more of acknowledging. It certainly was exhilirating. But I've also had those encounters that were prickly and had me backtracking real quick, or hurrying thru an area were my presence really wasn't wanted or needed, no matter how much love/peace I was feeling in my heart. I personally don't think its all about the feelings we are giving out. Nature spirits aren't human. We can't just put them in a box and label them. They are what they are.
I'm not really good at putting my words down, but I do know that the concept that all is love and good in nature seems to me to be a very limited one, and tells me perhaps the person thinking that hasn't really spent all that much time out alone with it.
daphnerose

[BearDancing]

""but I do know that the concept that all is love and good in nature seems to me to be a very uneducated one, and tells me perhaps the person thinking that hasn't really spent all that much time out alone with it.""
daphnerose


Uneducated concept....ones education is personal....Just because your experience is different ...does not make mine uneducated... it makes your blanket statement simply your inexperience ...I was born and raised in the country...my parents took us in nature all the time as kids as it is their passion always....during my career in the military...I always found nature,birds animals, rocks etc....when it is a passion U can find nature anywhere...even liviing in cities I would drive an hour and be out in the wild...I have been retired for 14 yrs and I live on an acreage with the wilderness all around me....I have experienced more than most when it comes to physical nature and spiritually.... I have had many encounters and many personal relationships with said....so in my opinion and with my expereince I have only the once felt anything from nature spiritually that was not of Love.... and I am 50yrs old so I know I have spent much time out alone with nature...

With most experiences being so different than mine it makes me wonder why? what is the different? why do I not feel some of the so called uninviting energies? is it where I live? interesting ? for me....puzzles me anyways... questions are good...because then we are open to recieve more or different answers....:uhhuhuh:

What are U calling nature spirits....My experience is with animals, birds, plants, rocks ......

[daphnerose]

Ok, first of all I wasn't directing my comment to you personally Fairiespirit, so please don't take it as such, and I'm sorry if thats what you thought. I have grown up and lived in the country my whole life also. My comment was actually based more towards pagans I've met in real life, who live in the large cities, and do occasional *camp weekends* or might go hiking sometimes on the popular local trails andtend to look down on us who live rurally. I was not trying to discount in anyway what you said.
What I was referring to as nature spirits were entities /guardians that are dwell on earth, like the Fae or elementals I suppose. Am I completely off topic here? I thought thats what Monsnow was talking about. If not I guess I just need to go have another cup of coffee and reread everything.:lol:
Yes theres been a few times in the woods I've felt uninvited, certain area's are like that, also been to alot of places where it felt stagnant or *dead*. Also been to tons of place where peace abounds. I suppose its just like any place and its energies. Always different.
sorry if you were offended in anyway
daphnerose

[MonSno_LeeDra]

FairieSpirit wrote:



What are U calling nature spirits....My experience is with animals, birds, plants, rocks ......


You know that is a very good question. In fact one I have been pondering since I first started this thread. In that light I shall try to expound upon it as I relate to the concept.

At the highest level for me I place the actual creatures (2 legs and 4 legs) of the forest. These are the animals and insects, etc that one encounters nearly everyday in all parts of the world. I must admit I have felt , confusion, apprehension, towards man. Usually though it is much akin to coming upon a deer and getting close enough and then standing there.

The deer does not really know fear from your presence. To me it seems as if the deer feels uncertainty and a little confusion. He / she may snort at you trying to get you to move, he/she may paw the ground, stomp her foot, definitely raise her/his head and sniff the air. If she/he judges you to be of no worry then it will go back to feeding or grazing, though never totally ignoring your presence.

Yet, Heron is the opposite. No mater how slow I approach or from what direction Heron will take to the air as soon as you are close to it. Close being judged by their actions not yours. If Heron feels safe out in the middle of the water it might stay a little longer or perhaps land in a high tree branch and watch for a moment.

These are the daily living spirits of the forest. I say daily living spirits for they are but once facet of the living world that moves on a table relatively close top that of mans life rate. I think this is probably the level most people assign human emotion to. The creatures are close enough to us in our ability to make anamorphic associations with them and even cast them into an almost human persona.

I think this is also the area many draw their spirit guides and guardians from so have already placed them into a human type persona. We (collectively) tend to look for human type emotions or actions from them and in finding something try to humanize them.

The green people and the stone people also are representations of Living spirits but they act on a life rate very different from that of man. Granted the green people are a little closer to our life rate than say the stone people but like in the LOTR movie, a green person may take all day and part of the night just to say hello, a stone person maybe weeks. In many ways I think this is also one of the harder grouping to humanize for we don't see actions and perceived emotions that can be humanized.

I next would say come the Spirits of place or things. Sort of like Old Man River, Grandfather Mountain, Grandmother Oak, etc. They are higher than plain elemental spirits but more so have a life force that is not birthed in a single life span but developed over time. They also tend to encompass large area's of influence in their reach. In some ways they may even fall into the category of constructs or creations.

Along with the Greater Spirits of Place or Things I place the nature spirits that one might call the Dryads, Nymphs, etc. They are lessor in stature to the Grand Mother Oak, Grandfather Mountain, Old Man River, type spirits. I also tend to think of them as more man made as a means to understand nature and its faces.

These are the spirits that I associate with fire, water, land, air, earth but are not the hardcore, deep set Elementals. They may be the spirits that we feel when we stand near a pool or lake, the spirits that we feel when we are in the open field and the wind touches our face or limbs as it blows by and flutters our hair. The sense of presence we feel when we look into the flames of a fire, or the land spirits we feel near us as the leaves blow about the land or the green stalks seem to move by hands unseen.

I also place the elemental spirits near these and may include them in the category of spirits of Place and Things. Yet unlike the above listed I find many of the greater elemental spirits to be very deep and usually singular and very remote in access or location. These I've found have no concern about man or his presence in their area of selected and reclusive influence. Many times the very area they control is so hard to get to and primordial it feels like you have entered another world.

This is not a break down layer by layer but gives an indication of how I view the spiritual and physical placement of spirits and beings.

[SphinYote]

The other question this thread brings up i my mind, is the fundamental question of perception....as well as a few other thoughts at the end....

Some might perceive "love" or project it, others the raw wildness (I'm oversimplifying for clarity), but either way, how does anyone know if their perceptual filters are allowing anything resembling the reality?

Things exist, things are. But humans (as others possibly) filter our perceptions...what are our brains equipped to filter? Is there a part (physical, spiritual, otherwise) other than the brain that filters the experience?

Example (from the physical perspective): The electromagnetic energy of storms triggers blinding, excruciatingly painful migraleptic (migraine+Epilepsy) seizures for one of my cousins. Me? Euphoria (so strong sometimes that while I keep my rational mind and don't do anything stupid, I understand the cliche stereotyped portrayal of extremely manic people jumping out windows because they think they can fly).

These are sensory perceptions that neither one of us can control (well he tries though medication, and as for me, I have no desire to control mine, because its pleasurable rather than painful).

The perennial question is, what is the base reality, and are we even capable of perceiving it?

Altered states of consciousness, meditation, etc, can cause euphoria for some people, who is to say that this is (or is not) what is being read as coming from the environment? Each brain is different, and we each take different mental paths to certain states of consciousness that we associate with certain circumstances.

My emotional state differs from a lot of people's, I can very well believe that "love" is just a human-created state, because I don't think I've ever actually experienced the feeling before. Euphoria. yes (but only in association with storms, and more recently mildly euphoric off and on when my emotional cycles get whacked out). Occasional joy, yes. Love? Not sure what that even is. Perhaps I simply over-analyzed it into oblivion, because I find it impossible to turn off the analytic part of my mind.

Another thought, may be contradictory to the first part, but for connection there must be a bridge of commonality or parallel thought, perhaps? "Love" as people know it, or any other state of being mentioned by previous posters, might be the closest to a common ground of contact either are capable of experiencing.

Or, perhaps we can turn around what a previous poster said...if a person's fear is abrasive to a particular location, then perhaps some entity (for want of a better term) can use what we perceive as love to help calm a person, so said person quits giving off (or gives off less) of a kind of energy or emotion that the entity would perceive as painful or something to be defended against?).

Not saying any one of these is true, or untrue, I think everyone who has posted so far has had more experience than me. But just thought I'd add some of the things that have been passing through my mind....

Yote

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Animals...today I walked out of a state park...a tiny rabbit
saw me , stopped , looked at me , hopped to the side of the
road , and began eating...did not run , hide , or freak , as
I talked to it , or walked past it...

I have had raven come visit me every morning for two years ,
talk with me , bring friends to guard me , and my house , had
it bring it's mate to meet me , and it sat on my porch at midnite ,
and talked with me...a couple of feet away...

Deer and I have been close enough to touch...

Rattlesnake and I made a pact , while I stood without fear ,
well within striking distance...

Bees , spiders , wasps , other insects , and I , have agreements...

Hummingbirds and I , have had glorious times together , dancing...

Standing People ( trees ) , and I , have shared much...

Stone People know me well...and I them...stillness is...:uhhuhuh:

Then there have been the spirits of place , or the egregore...

and the dryads , nymphs , and elementals...

They have welcomed me , shown me shelter , soothed my soul...

They have also taught me hard lessons...reminders of my actions
and thoughts , in their prescence...and have let me know , when
they wish to be left alone...it is wise to listen...:thumbsup:

Many years ago , I stood outside , during a hurricane , and a
monsoon , I rejoiced with an earthquake , I stood on a mountain
naked in a lightning storm...clouds around me...and made pacts
with the spirits...and we know each other...no fear...

As I teach my students...embrace RAW nature...connection...
learn about those FORCES which underlie the sleeping beast...

And when it wakes...RESPECT is the key word , to create that
CONNECTION , which is the TRUE LOVE...:uhhuhuh:

Whether on the street in the city...or in the wilds...respect always
creates connection...cross cultural , cross species , and across the
dimensions...it is a vibrational frequency...just as is love...

Not just a projected human emotion...

That idea is the false humancentric disease...that our fellow beings
do not feel , think , or share...LOVE...

Blessings from the Blackwolf...sleeping in nature once again...:thumbsup:

P.S. Of course...some beings have frequencies disharmonious with ours...
can we say they do not love their own kind ?

[SphinYote]

.....
Whether on the street in the city...or in the wilds...respect always
creates connection...cross cultural , cross species , and across the
dimensions...it is a vibrational frequency...just as is love...

Not just a projected human emotion...

That idea is the false humancentric disease...that our fellow beings
do not feel , think , or share...LOVE...

Blessings from the Blackwolf...sleeping in nature once again...:thumbsup:



Ah, this I agree with, but part of my questioning comes form an over analytic mind that doesn't want to trust its own perceptions, at times.....Its not questioning whether or not various states exist, but whether or not the interpretation is correct, whether or not and to what extend or own perceptions get distorted.....

Perhaps it comes from not being able to trust my physical perceptions....my depth perception disappear sometimes, migraines cause blind spots in vision, and sometimes the nails-on-chalkboard screech in my head raises to a volume where I can't think clearly.

Sometimes bad feelings come out of nowhere--is it intuition? Or is my brain chemistry out of balance? As someone with a metabolic problem and issues with brain chemistry (who also has a phobia of prescription medications like prozac), I know that my own perceptions aren't always to be trusted.

I try to meditate and connect, I try to be open to communications, but I also try to communicate a sense of apology for the fact that I may be interpreting wrong....in my case wishful thinking or out of balance brain chemistry may very well be interfering with the signal, so to speak, one way or another.

Just explaining where my comments come from.

Yote

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I do understand , as best I can , without being in your position ,
your medical situation , SpinYote...and wish only the best for you...

None of my statements were directed toward you , or any in
particular...

And I do appreciate the questioning mind...yet know nature is
irrational , chaotic , and fierce...as well , highly ordered , and
to be apprehended by perception and feeling , consciousness ,
and awareness...body and mind...rational , and intuitive...
and in the spaces between...one may find the answer...

Blessings...may you one day , find your key , to shut off the
conscious mind...if you choose...:thumbsup:


Ah, this I agree with, but part of my questioning comes form an over analytic mind that doesn't want to trust its own perceptions, at times.....Its not questioning whether or not various states exist, but whether or not the interpretation is correct, whether or not and to what extend or own perceptions get distorted.....

Perhaps it comes from not being able to trust my physical perceptions....my depth perception disappear sometimes, migraines cause blind spots in vision, and sometimes the nails-on-chalkboard screech in my head raises to a volume where I can't think clearly.

Sometimes bad feelings come out of nowhere--is it intuition? Or is my brain chemistry out of balance? As someone with a metabolic problem and issues with brain chemistry (who also has a phobia of prescription medications like prozac), I know that my own perceptions aren't always to be trusted.

I try to meditate and connect, I try to be open to communications, but I also try to communicate a sense of apology for the fact that I may be interpreting wrong....in my case wishful thinking or out of balance brain chemistry may very well be interfering with the signal, so to speak, one way or another.

Just explaining where my comments come from.

Yote

[daphnerose]

I guess it all comes down to personal perceptions of reality. We all have different ways of identifiying things, some are visual, some are tactile some are empathic, etc.
I personally would say that respect, possible, curiousity probable, but love, well I suppose if ones spent enough time earning it sure. But for there to be love given from any being whether human or not, there needs to be a relationship/ bond established first. At least thats my own perceptions of things.
daphnerose

[BearDancing]

"" it makes your blanket statement simply your inexperience ""


not offended in the least.....your post only gave me a chance to share a little more of myself and for that I thank U...in re reading my post I saw what I was really meaning was ""it makes your blanket statement simply Your experience""

I am finding how we all experience nature interesting...different but very interesting.....I like the questiions it raises for myself...

[childofbast]

I guess it all comes down to personal perceptions of reality. We all have different ways of identifiying things, some are visual, some are tactile some are empathic, etc.
I personally would say that respect, possible, curiousity probable, but love, well I suppose if ones spent enough time earning it sure. But for there to be love given from any being whether human or not, there needs to be a relationship/ bond established first. At least thats my own perceptions of things.
daphnerose

I think I agree with this statement. I've thought more about this thread and I do think that some nature spirits may feel love towards humans. I'm sure most either don't care or are just cautious, but I wouldn't rule out love in the end. I think if someone spent a lot of time working with a particular nature spirit, of any kind, a bond would form. But yes, as with any relationship, that would take time.

~Melanie

[RainInanna]

And when it wakes...RESPECT is the key word , to create that
CONNECTION , which is the TRUE LOVE...:uhhuhuh:

Whether on the street in the city...or in the wilds...respect always
creates connection...cross cultural , cross species , and across the
dimensions...it is a vibrational frequency...just as is love...


Thank you for sharing. You put it so eloquently and poetically and beautifully :)

[Philosophia]

The problem with generalizing what types of energy to send to "nature spirits" is that there are a million and one types of "nature spirits"... who is to say that any two are the same? One "nature spirit" may indeed react to a "loving" (peaceful, calm, accepting) energy. Another may not. Another may try to eat you for it. You just never know.

I absolutely agree. In my opinion, nature is just too complex to generalize.