What is the cost of being "Advanced" in practice?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

What is the cost of being advanced in practice? Is there any cost, or is it just a trade off of one for another? This was inspired by the thread by PrincesKLS asking what is advanced.

For years have I pushed forward, refining my beliefs and exploring. From the first question that popped into my head when my earliest teacher started asking me and teaching me.

Teaching things that I had no interest in to those that were like the breathe of life to me. Hours spent reading Tarot cards to learning how to read with regular playing cards. Scrying in pools of water, the surface of lakes and upon a cloudless sky. Trying to read tea leaves and having no luck for it made no sense to me.

Yet, in my rush forward those things I dis-liked so greatly now lost to the sands of time. Hand me a deck of tarot and I would be hard pressed to even read them now much less recall what each card of the arcana ment. Yes, I retain the general knowledge of use and purpose but must admit I am but less than novice with them now. Death echoes accross the sands of time from what I once though the card meant.

Where I once scryed upon the surface of water or sky, I find I do so now frequently with the closed eye upon the inner screen. Though I admit I get lost in the image of the reflection and imagery of a still pond or the vast blue of a clear sky.

Sometimes it seems the advance has removed the beauty of things for me. I look upon the rock face and my thoughts turn to the forces that created it and the ages that it has stood. I ask the "what If?" questions as I try to understand the possible outcomes that could have changed it.

When was the last time you closed your eyes and allowed the wind to tease your hair and face? Teased without thinking of the odor that is carried upon it and / or the moisture that is moved with it. But just be a child again and feel it's pull upon you?

Perhaps in some ways the need of the group is strong to remind us of those things as we see the affect / effect upon those new to the path-walk.

At times it seems the cost of being advanced is to be alone. It can be difficult to express idea's and concepts when you speak only to your self. When your path-walk has narrowed to such a state that others can try to relate but never trully comprehend that which you speak.

Failure to be able to speak without having to defend every other word can be a cost at times. You can't speak your concept for the componet parts or theories are disputed or attacked. Let them stand in defiance of anothers position and many times the expansion of idea's is lost in the conflict. Yet is that also a sign of human nature and the persception of what ones self worth is?

So, what is the cost of being advanced?

[Solya]

The cost, for me, has always been this: I can never keep things simple anymore. It always has to be difficult, challenging, thought-provoking, etc. for me and so I often skip through the basics because I feel they're not 'advanced' enough. It's horrible, because that means I miss out on quite a lot of good stuff now and then. Thankfully I still have the ability to experience childlike wonder concerning everything I meet.

My teacher is at the stage of 'being alone' because most people don't comprehend him and his ideas. He says that it's the price he paid for becoming a teacher to his peers. Unfortunately, I too recognise this already and try to combat it by getting as much in touch with others as possible. I don't want to become a hermit.

[brymble]

I think it goes in cycles. I reached a point in my practice of being frustrated communicating, and feeling alone. And now I feel like I'm letting go again. I think that doing my first workshops as a festival presenter was good for me (even though I have lyme disease and was sleepy/achy/nauseaous from antibiotics!) I let go of the need to be understood, and began communicating, teaching, just for the joy of reaching out (ok, and for the free festival admission. the starwood hot tub feels so-o-o-o-o good when you're aching!) Letting go of the expectations, and celebrating the joy of the communication process itself replaced the frustration and isolation I felt at being misunderstood, or not being able to "make" people grok what I've experienced. i honestly think it makes me a better tarot reader/life coach too. it's not about doing things "right". it's about doing things consciously, just for the sake of being Here and Now.

[~Elise~]

I've found that the 'more' you know...the 'more' is expected of you. You won't be able to get away with shortcuts anymore.

Elise

[Astara Seague]

I've found that the 'more' you know...the 'more' is expected of you. You won't be able to get away with shortcuts anymore.

Elise

:thumbsup:My thoughts exactly

[Rick]

What is the cost of being "Advanced" in practice?

Everything.

Family, home, job.

Twice.

I really hope not to "advance" again.

[Rudas Starblaze]

So, what is the cost of being advanced?

my cost seems to be shutting myself off more and more to people for a variety of reasons...

A. if i want to help someone, i will do it without them asking. i dont like beggers and i dont like being in the spotlight (so to speak in witchcraft terms).

B. A. sums it up in all aspects rather its good or bad.

C. because hearing peoples thoughts is not as cool as people think.

D. is there really such a thing as advanced? cause i dont think of myself as advanced, but im far from a beginner.

[Shanti]

responsibility

[Philosophia]

So, what is the cost of being advanced?

Time, space, knowledge, friends, expectations, energy, and a certain naive nature that I once had (maybe I still have it in some sense).

[NightSpirit]

At times it seems the cost of being advanced is to be alone. It can be difficult to express idea's and concepts when you speak only to your self. When your path-walk has narrowed to such a state that others can try to relate but never trully comprehend that which you speak.
You hit the nail on the head for me. I sometimes think of it as climbing to the top of a mountain and watching as the heavens part and show you their secrets. It's wonderous and beautiful beyond words, but after a while, you look around and see that you're all alone on the mountain top. You look down and see your friends and family living their lives at the foot of the mountain, never even bothering to look up. That's how I feel. I've seen so many incredible things, but I can't make them understand. And it is very lonely.

My greatest challenge is learning how to walk amongst the gods, while at the same time staying grounded enough to maintain my connection with my fellow man. I understand intimately why so many mystics withdraw from society. Sometimes I do worry that I've seen so much that at this point, we have almost nothing in common. The things that are important to them mean nothing to me (and vice versa). This is something that I still struggle with, and I know that I still have a lot to learn.

It's also difficult because I have no mortal teacher. I've always been taught by the spirits. I've learned so much over the years, more than I ever dreamed, but at times I would give almost anything just to have a flesh and blood person here who can relate to the things I've experienced, if only for moral support. But most of the time, I try to be happy with what I've been given. This is my path, and I know that if nothing else, it has helped me find the strength to persevere-- and I think that's an important lesson in itself.

[dr_zeus440]

What is the cost of being advanced in practice?

The "cost" of being advanced is that one is no longer a novice. It's similar to getting old.

"To get back one's youth, one has merely to repeat one's follies."
-Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray.

[cheddarsox]

I feel like I am asking for trouble by posting this, but it was my first response when I read the thread over a day ago, and it's still my response...so...

If one feels they have gotten so advanced that they can no longer relate to the common man and their situation...I think they are suffering more from "head up one's own assedness" than true advancement.

Yup, they've had uncommon experiences and insights, but if those don't further inform one about real life, and where real people are coming from, and help them embrace those things in a deeper way, and become more engaged, perhaps what one is experiencing is NOT true advancement, but spiritual elitism.

This is something warned of in many spiritual/religious traditions. It's neat to walk on water, but it doesn't strike me as particularly advanced when the water walkers sit in the middle of a lake and say "I have no one to play with here on the water"...I mean, what is the point of advancing to where one can walk on water, if it means leaving everyone else behind?

I've heard a Buddhist story about a monk who spent years trying to learn to walk on water, and one day accomplished it and went to his master, sure to impress. "Master, I learned to walk on water. NOW what should I do." and the master said, "go and polish your rice bowl"

Sometimes we can delude ourselves that what we've accomplished is "advanced" because it is rare or different. And we "relate" to holy people of the past who were hermits, or sat on poles, or hid out in a mountain hovel...but what sort of spirituality is that? That only works, or works best when one is alone with no mundane things to challenge them or ordinary people to "test" them?

I do believe in spiritual advancement, but I also think that sometimes our idea of what it looks and feels like is skewed...and I think that culture is partly responsible for this. We want to be able to easily identify our heroes, we want something to be obvious and have obvious levels and standards to identify it by. And most of us have seen someone who if oft referred to as 'advanced' and know which characteristics society recognizes as such. We have an idea in our head about what to aim for, what it should look and feel like. But I posit it may very well look and feel rather different.

What is the "cost" of anything? The cost is something else. When we choose one thing, we have less time and energy for another. The cost of spiritual advancement is no different from the cost of following any other path in life. You get one set of experiences rather than another. If you think it sets you apart, maybe what you have is elitism rather than advancement. Everyone, ultimately lives alone in their skin, everyone has seen and experienced rare and uncommon things. If all your practice shows you is how different from "them" you are, rather than how similar...well, personally, I'd watch out for that.

[RainInanna]

I feel like I am asking for trouble by posting this, but it was my first response when I read the thread over a day ago, and it's still my response...

If you think it sets you apart, maybe what you have is elitism rather than advancement.

*nods* That's what I was thinking as well.

Otherwise I was wondering if I was the odd one again, since the more I've matured spiritually (and I don't want to call myself "advanced", but I will say I've grown over the past 11 years), the more I've focused on being present in the now, aware of the Sacred, and learning how to relate to others. If anything the "advancement" has been about buildling a better relationship with the universe/divine and with the community, since the "basics" were spent on getting myself sorted out.

How differently we grow, eh?

[Philosophia]

I don't think being "advanced" separates us from everybody else nor do I think it makes us different. It does make us more interconnected with knowledge and awareness that ultimately leads to more solid connections within the community around us.

I agree that, in some, elitism is used as some sort of benchmark to mark how easily "different" we are but I disagree with that. I think, with advancement, we become more aware of our similar we are and how close our beliefs may be aligned.

In my opinion, this question asks what have we sacrificed to move on from the building blocks we use to provide the foundation of our spirituality. Is it our sense of innocence (and I mean that in the more naive, childlike wonder), our patience, time, etc.? Could it be our once held beliefs have morphed into something else, maybe sacrificing them because you've found something else that you agree with more?


What is the "cost" of anything? The cost is something else. When we choose one thing, we have less time and energy for another. The cost of spiritual advancement is no different from the cost of following any other path in life. You get one set of experiences rather than another. If you think it sets you apart, maybe what you have is elitism rather than advancement. Everyone, ultimately lives alone in their skin, everyone has seen and experienced rare and uncommon things. If all your practice shows you is how different from "them" you are, rather than how similar...well, personally, I'd watch out for that.

I agree.

[RainInanna]

In my opinion, this question asks what have we sacrificed to move on from the building blocks we use to provide the foundation of our spirituality. Is it our sense of innocence (and I mean that in the more naive, childlike wonder), our patience, time, etc.? Could it be our once held beliefs have morphed into something else, maybe sacrificing them because you've found something else that you agree with more?

I would guess to each of us the cost or even determination of what "advanced" is, is entirely individual (which is why I was hoping to expand the discussion of "advanced" in the other thread).

For me at least? 11 years in and if anything I am gaining that sense of childlike wonder. I am feeling that spirituality is the ongoing daily journey of the moment right now rather than some goal of "advanced". If anything, it seems what some consider "advanced" is what I was stuck on as a beginner. As I have grown, I have gone back to sensing, feeling, experiencing, and being awe-struck and wonder-filled, as if a child. To me god is found these days in kicking a ball in the sunshine with my kids, savouring my favourite dessert coffee, feeling the wind blow across my skin, or simply closing my eyes and breathing.

For me personally, logic and memorization and details of runes, astrology, tarot, or what-have-you - those are all easy for me to stick in my memory bank and pull out again. I get the impression that for others "advanced" can mean a set of knowledge and understanding that surpasses other people. For me it's realizing how meaningless all that knowledge I gathered up is, and letting it go for a moment to savour god right here, right now.

[brymble]

If anything, the cost of real advancement is the loss of the illusion that advancement makes us different, special, or separate from our other human beings. It's the loss of the illusion that it's all about being wise and mysterious, that it's all about matching incense and candle color on a chart, and beyond that, that "magick" and prayer have anything to do with either the incense and candle color or the petty little details of life anyway. And it means learning that, ultimately, it's all petty little details, because we keep on living and the world keeps on turning anyway regardless. That we're all here because we're not all there, and if we don't hang together, then surely we will all hang separately.

[Philosophia]

I would guess to each of us the cost or even determination of what "advanced" is, is entirely individual (which is why I was hoping to expand the discussion of "advanced" in the other thread).

For me at least? 11 years in and if anything I am gaining that sense of childlike wonder. I am feeling that spirituality is the ongoing daily journey of the moment right now rather than some goal of "advanced". If anything, it seems what some consider "advanced" is what I was stuck on as a beginner. As I have grown, I have gone back to sensing, feeling, experiencing, and being awe-struck and wonder-filled, as if a child. To me god is found these days in kicking a ball in the sunshine with my kids, savouring my favourite dessert coffee, feeling the wind blow across my skin, or simply closing my eyes and breathing.

For me personally, logic and memorization and details of runes, astrology, tarot, or what-have-you - those are all easy for me to stick in my memory bank and pull out again. I get the impression that for others "advanced" can mean a set of knowledge and understanding that surpasses other people. For me it's realizing how meaningless all that knowledge I gathered up is, and letting it go for a moment to savour god right here, right now.

What I meant by losing that "child like wonder" is what Brymble stated. Losing that sense of illusion that everything must be so and particular rituals have to be exactly right. I don't mean that we lose wonder itself or curiosity because that is the key, in my opinion, to opening doorways of knowledge.

[Zephyrstorm]

just want to say, this is a beautiful thread. :)

[RainInanna]

What I meant by losing that "child like wonder" is what Brymble stated. Losing that sense of illusion that everything must be so and particular rituals have to be exactly right. I don't mean that we lose wonder itself or curiosity because that is the key, in my opinion, to opening doorways of knowledge.

Ah. I'm probably not explaining myself well. And probably you and I are more along similar lines then some here. Probably your post tipped my thoughts even though I was thinking more about what others have said than you per se.

Can I try again? I find for me spirituality has moved from being logic, details, memorization, and things to learn and remember to New Age, Mystic, Power of Now, live in the moment every possible moment, feel the wind against my face, savour every pleasure, read divinely inspired poetry, learn to love myself, self develop, find joy in making a friend smile, and why not throw all those books away since all those details just get in the way now.

I've moved from Wicca to witchcraft, Kemeticism, LaVeyan Satanism, chaos theory, to New Age hippy dippy feel-good all roads are paths to the Divine, close my eyes and read Rumi or follow Eckhart Tolle's mainstream god-for-saken Oprah approved advice. Reconstructionism, logic, history, and rules, to hippy dippy New Age airheaded fluffyness that makes me joyful and present.

What do I sacrifice for that? Preconceived notions. Beliefs of who I am, what things are, judgement, criticism, ability to watch people criticize eachother. Rules, logic, things that give safety and security. It's like skydiving.

Which is why I'd love to see more discussion on what is advanced. I think there are very different perspectives here.

[Xentor]

If anything, the cost of real advancement is the loss of the illusion that advancement makes us different, special, or separate from our other human beings. It's the loss of the illusion that it's all about being wise and mysterious, that it's all about matching incense and candle color on a chart, and beyond that, that "magick" and prayer have anything to do with either the incense and candle color or the petty little details of life anyway. And it means learning that, ultimately, it's all petty little details, because we keep on living and the world keeps on turning anyway regardless. That we're all here because we're not all there, and if we don't hang together, then surely we will all hang separately.

Very well said, though for some the illusion is all that matters, for some the ritual is the goal, and for some the petty details turn into an art or a science.

It's like when I was young: I thought that old people would feel old... but now I am older myself and I feel quite young. Maybe if I grow 70 I'll feel old, but in the mean time I've learned that this is not necessarily so.

It means I understand the distinction between lighting a candle by myself or lighting a candle together with others: when by myself I can choose a colour that matches my connotations... when with others I have to choose a colour that matches theirs, lest I'm willing to explain my choice. The cost of this might have been that I would've had to do the ritual by myself... but since I do understand that the colour itself matters less than my mindset, that is unnecessary.

A different cost shows itself with people that teach and train. In one of the latest threads, Astara Seague (hope I spelled that correctly) talks about a coven member wanting her to teach her child... by taking her in for a whole season. That shows a misplaced expectation others may develop about those of us who are experienced, which quickly turns into us feeling obliged to live up to that expectation, which can cause quite a few problems, as Astara Seague explained.

[BearDancing]

This is a very very interesting thread....thank you to all that have contributed....my path is very solitary.....my only contribution is that the more experience I gain the more alone in the people world I feel...I do not have friends that are on spiritual paths and I find relating to people very shallow...the people around me....not MW people...When I am in nature I am sooooo alive and feel so welcome and excepted

that is the only part of my path that I feel I have sacrificed for more experience...nature is sooo easy to be in..humans are not so easy

I guess part of my karma must be to BE with all...not just nature:boing:

[Solya]

What also interests me is how our personalities influence our opinions of the 'greatest cost' of being advanced in our practices. I've personally always sensed that I have a hard time with keeping things simple, so that personal struggle is to me one of the greater costs of advancing in any subject. To others, the greatest struggle might lie in keeping themselves 'grounded' and to not solely live in the world of their advanced training.

I've personally always been a bit of a hermit, but I'm also quite a people person from time to time. I sometimes struggle with making myself understood to others, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and do nothing about it anymore. Yes, I feel alone sometimes. Yet I also seek companions, and find them in online life and in my soul friendships with others. One of my greatest abilities has always been that I can see good in practically everybody and act according to that knowledge. I will never be able to feel wholly 'alone' for as long as I am able to recognise myself in others.

Something I have 'lost' in the process of growth is the focus on petty little details. I studied concepts of rituals, ceremonial stuff and other details of various practices for a while when I was younger. The advantage of that has definitely been that I feel more relaxed about discarding some things in my rituals and daily life now. I went from paying attention to every little detail to paying attention to how I feel and think. It's gone from book knowledge to inner knowledge for me.

So, mmm, I guess we all see advancement and its benefits/costs differently because we are different in personality. I sometimes see it as a struggle because I can never keep things simple and basic, but usually I also see benefits in that I am less focused on preconceived notions and ideas than I used to be. Yet we are also all very similar to one another, because we all name the same things and seem to have the same concerns and questions about advancement in itself.

[David19]

The "cost" of being advanced is that one is no longer a novice. It's similar to getting old.

"To get back one's youth, one has merely to repeat one's follies."
-Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray.

I really like that quote (and, it's true, although I'm young, I think I'll always remain young, as I always repeat my mistakes!).

[Eleisawolf]

I have discovered that one cost of advancing in my spiritual path is compassion.

No, I'm not losing compassion--that's not it.

Quite the opposite, actually--the more I learn about my path, my beliefs, and my experience of the world, the more compassion I have.

Even for people and things I don't like, don't agree with, wish were different.

Yes, in learning that we're all in it together, and that, "but for the grace of the simple chance that I was born in this situation and not some other one, there go I," I have discovered that I cannot just brush off anyone or anything as meaningless, evil, not worth my thought.

And, suddenly, I'm not the only one who's right. As a matter of fact, everyone else is right--based on their experience of life. And each experience is something of value for what it brings to the sum total of experiences that can be had in this universe. Even if they suck.

It's a big cost in ego to realize that one's high horse has suddenly become a rat with a bridle.

But it might be better for the other rats around us if we understand that rats are just rats--and to a rat, that's exactly how it's supposed to be.

Peace

[Morgaine_cla]

I can only speak for myself and what I say will be based on my unique training and experiences in Avalon and the greater pagan community.

I cannot say that I find the *little details* less important as I advance on the hidden ways; if anything, the better my understanding of the Arcane Laws, the more obvious is the need for precision. By definition, ritual is "doing the same thing the same way to achieve the same result". Achieving the same exact result is more important than one might think, especially if one customarily calls down (or brings in) deities, ancestors, or other spirit entities.

I have seen what can happen when people get careless... Watching someone be slowly devoured by an astral predator is not an experience I wish to repeat, let alone experience first-hand... So when I do healing and ritual work, I want to know exactly who I'm bringing in, and I want to know it's only them. Not someone *like* them. Anything else is too horrible to contemplate.

There are specific principles governing these things; specific methods for achieving specific results. When we deviate from these methods, we create opportunities for beings other than we might intend consciously; because it is not only our conscious mind that comes into magic and ritual. Anything we bring in with us (whether physical, emotional, psychological, or spiritual) can become a focus for things we not only did not intend, but cannot begin to imagine.

As a novice, you think everything is beautiful, fun, and glamorous. You don't see the potential dangers and hardly anybody speaks of them. There's a very real epidemic of people who've infected themselves with all sorts of astral parasites, basically by jettisoning the safeguards that are built into most spiritual traditions. Once the parasite is ensconced it's usually difficult to get the victim's consent for healing because the entity influences their thoughts, feelings, and actions.

For me, the cost of advancement has been to lose several dear friends and watch helplessly as their lives and identities were slowly destroyed by these monsters. In consequence, I've embarked on a quest for the knowledge and skills needed to address these issues quickly, effectively, and safely, but there are few who possess these skills...

And that brings me to the second "cost" of advancement: the realisation that we are all doing things every day with small appreciation of the actual powers and forces with which we work, or the laws that bind us all. Most of us are simply acting on blind faith that nothing unfortunate will happen -- no matter what safeguards we may discard. These safeguards are usually in the details, those pesky, tedious details that cramp our sense of spontaneity and personal style. But I can assure you, my afflicted friends no longer have a sense of spontaneity or personal style. They no longer have themselves. They are lost, and I cannot say whether they will ever be found. For me the cost of advancing on the path has been in many ways a loss of innocence.

Of course these problems plague not only pagans but all spiritual paths and religions, but that does little to ease the sense of regret at not having known more sooner. It's bruising to the ego to realise that even 20+ years of intensive, full-time study and practice can leave one helpless in the face of a real crisis... but not to admit it would be the act of a novice.

[cheddarsox]

This is a very very interesting thread....thank you to all that have contributed....my path is very solitary.....my only contribution is that the more experience I gain the more alone in the people world I feel...I do not have friends that are on spiritual paths and I find relating to people very shallow...the people around me....not MW people...When I am in nature I am sooooo alive and feel so welcome and excepted

that is the only part of my path that I feel I have sacrificed for more experience...nature is sooo easy to be in..humans are not so easy

I guess part of my karma must be to BE with all...not just nature:boing:

Though often in spiritual circles it seems to be all the thing to diss humanity, humans are part of nature. For some reason, many trads and cultures teach otherwise and many people find themselves using spirituality as a refuge from humanity, a sort of watch tower that makes it safe and acceptable to sit in and see the "mistakes" of humanity, while, through being removed, not making most of those same mistakes oneself, or at least not in a the same way...so it's harder to recognize.

It's an attractive "cover"...I'm spiritual...I don't need people, I'm not like them, they don't understand me, etc.

When we get with people, it's so easy to find ourselves doing all those things we hate most in others. I think often it is not that we find others hard to deal with, we find ourselves around others, hard to deal with. Too many mirrors, too many temptations, we find ourselves succumbing to all the same pitfalls as the "common" man.

The foibles we can forgive when we see them in other critters, we despise when we see them in humanity. Assuming that humans always have control over their feelings, behaviors, shortsightedness and self interest...or thinking at least they should.

Someone said that the people here at MW understood them, but not those other people, out there...but the people at MW are the people out there. Really, give them a chance, more importantly give yourself a chance. You will get kicked all the time, that is the price of living in a herd. What you know spiritually will help you not blow those bruises out of proportion.

I have learned most of my spiritual lessons, not be reading the words of wise people or in solitary rituals or in deep discussion with masters, but by doing all the things that make me most human.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Let me preface this with I have enjoyed all the responses to this chain of though.

To expound upon my initial posting I find that being advanced (in my persception if nothing else) has made me more aware of things. Yet that awareness has also sadden me at times. For instance, I see a snake and marvel at the beauty of it, its nature intrigues me. Yet I listen to those about me and they only see a thing to be feared and destroyed. I've seen people swerve accross lanes of traffic just to run it over. Not even realizing the role all parts of the cast play in the drama of life.

All my life I have looked to the why of a thing and analyzed it. I recall that was my earliest lesson, why? Perhaps it was part of my inner nature, I am an introvert by nature and have always been a loner in the greater flow of humanity. I am part of a cast that both pulls me forward yet repells me from it.

One cost of advancement to me is withstanding the withering onslaught of emotion of my fellow man. I go forth and feel the surge of emotion and it is like a tidal wave upon me yet that is also my place to be as much as the quiet of nature's landscape. At times I play the role of healer in support of my role of the play. At times I play the role of protaganist or antaganist, each as spirit would claim me for.

I find that at times the cost is a constant struggle to not allow myself to become so wrapped in the what for's and why not's that I am lost to the realility of the here and now. Yet truth be told even that is a cost for I find myself drawn into the present and must make a choice to either move or just stay and ignore the world about me as I marvel in the daily drama.

Sometimes knowing how I am and my place is a cost for I struggle against ego in thinking I may be more or less than I am. In my inner spirit I feel less than what others think I am quite often. Sort of people have told me I am special and meant for things yet I struggle to not allow thier views to take over and make me egocentric.

At times the cost of being advanced is that I must stand by and allow others to make their mistakes, for them to learn thier lessons even though in my heart I know I could make it less painful or less damaging to them.

Sometimes the greater cost it seems is to know that what I call advanced is not what another calls advanced. To know that what spirit calls advanced is not definabale by a scale or even a word perhaps but only a concept claimed by mankind.

[Sequoia]

I wouldn't know the cost of being some supercalifragalistic "Advanced Pagan"... I guess I don't consider myself "advanced". I don't do regular rituals, or engage in psychic warfare. I don't do spells for everything. In fact, I rarely do "spells" at all. I'm not a big-wig pagan organizer, nor am I even in a "coven" of any sort. The most I get involved in my local pagan community is the Goddess Festival they hold every winter. And puttering around here on MW.

So, I guess I can't say that I know what "Advanced Paganism" feels like. But... I imagine that if you feel "Advanced" and special like that...

I don't know. If you feel that you're somehow better than others just because you do more energy work or "commune with nature" more frequently, or anything along those lines... I don't count that as "advanced" so much as "egotistical". The most advanced people I know are remarkably modest, and while they acknowledge that they have a good deal of "power" (so to speak), they think that they have so much more to learn.

Perhaps the feeling of truly advanced paganism is knowing that you have that much more to learn, and that you have only just begun.

I suppose the "cost" to that would be that you couldn't feel as all-powerful and supercalifragalistic as you did when you first started out doing energy work and the like.

[Philosophia]

Perhaps the feeling of truly advanced paganism is knowing that you have that much more to learn, and that you have only just begun.

:uhhuhuh: I agree.

[David19]

Perhaps the feeling of truly advanced paganism is knowing that you have that much more to learn, and that you have only just begun.


:uhhuhuh: I agree.

QFT, I think you're right :thumbsup: :).

[BearDancing]

It's an attractive "cover"...I'm spiritual...I don't need people, I'm not like them, they don't understand me, etc.

For me...I strongly feel I do need people..I live in the country on an acreage....the more I experience on my path.. I feel the deeper I become as a person...more loving, more compassionate, different values and many different subjects that interest me...it IS who I am now...

When I lived in the city there were more diverse people to draw from...was much easier to find people of a more like mind to share myself with..learn and grow..spiritually...my life is my spirituality

In the small towns around here, people are very closed minded about almost anything...not just spirituallity..don't get me wrong I can still go out with the "girls" and laugh, play pool and generally have fun...yet when you ARE your spirituality it is hard to share mundane conversations (or gossip and stuff) all the time...I crave more depth in my friendships

It is not that they do not understand me....it is that we are all on our own path...I have learned to recognize where people are/or where they are not...what they can actually "hear" when I am sharing who I am...I know they can not "hear me in this moment" yet I keep myself open to slipping in those small seeds for the soul...so that maybe at a different time...we can share and actually "hear" each other....

I Love the country....yet I am very lonely... for friends that I can carry on a conversation with and they know what I am talking about or are at least a bit interested in learning and growing....as I choose deep friendships in my life now and I am finding people here on a totally different path and maybe a little afraid/very afraid to share who they really are....

The reason I am sharing this is ...maybe someone out there feels the same as I do and are experiencing some of what I am and by me sharing my experiences they might share theirs and I can learn and grow.....

I really miss sharing who I am...with the people around me...I miss learning and growing with a friend or friends

[Shosha]

It took me over an hour to get my post out. There's still so much I want to say... but I think it would be too much. I'm contactable if you even want to talk about stuff.
And now, my response, your original post is there with me in bold.

What is the cost of being advanced in practice? Is there any cost, or is it just a trade off of one for another?

For years have I pushed forward, refining my beliefs and exploring. From the first question that popped into my head when my earliest teacher started asking me and teaching me.
Teaching things that I had no interest in, to those that were like the breath of life to me. Hours spent reading Tarot cards to learning how to read with regular playing cards. Scrying in pools of water, the surface of lakes and upon a cloudless sky. Trying to read tea leaves and having no luck for it made no sense to me.

Yet, in my rush forward those things I disliked so greatly now lost to the sands of time. Hand me a deck of tarot and I would be hard pressed to even read them now much less recall what each card of the arcana meant. Yes, I retain the general knowledge of use and purpose but must admit I am but less than novice with them now. Death echoes across the sands of time from what I once though the card meant.
Do you miss doing these things even though you didn’t enjoy them? Do you wish you still read Tarot? Then pick it back up! This time, you might enjoy it. Then again, divination isn’t for everyone. And don’t feel bad about tea leaves… I can’t read those things either.

Where I once scryed upon the surface of water or sky, I find I do so now frequently with the closed eye upon the inner screen. Though I admit I get lost in the image of the reflection and imagery of a still pond or the vast blue of a clear sky.
So take the time when you’re getting lost to see what you’re getting lost in. Scry. If you miss it so… why not do it? You’re not above or beyond it! Not if it’s something you loved/love as much as you’re words make it seem.

Sometimes it seems the advance has removed the beauty of things for me. I look upon the rock face and my thoughts turn to the forces that created it and the ages that it has stood. I ask the "what If?" questions as I try to understand the possible outcomes that could have changed it.
I thought that was part of the beauty of these things… the beauty of the forces that create… as you grow up you do look at things differently.

When was the last time you closed your eyes and allowed the wind to tease your hair and face? Teased without thinking of the odor that is carried upon it and / or the moisture that is moved with it. But just be a child again and feel it's pull upon you?
Yesterday. Honest to pete! I sat in a lawn chair on a side of my property I don’t usually sit and relax on and just turned my face skyward and closed my eyes and Felt Stuff. I sniffed the air… smelled flowers I can’t find to save me… then I walked around and did my "happy dance" because my roses are getting huge buds on them for the second time this summer!

Perhaps in some ways the need of the group is strong to remind us of those things as we see the affect / effect upon those new to the path-walk.
True. Or maybe… so we can hear one of our own tell us what not to let go of.

At times it seems the cost of being advanced is to be alone. It can be difficult to express idea's and concepts when you speak only to your self. When your path-walk has narrowed to such a state that others can try to relate but never truly comprehend that which you speak.
I do understand you here. Not relate… but totally understand. But, your path is not narrow… it’s wide. People have trouble with things so wide they can’t see both sides easily.

Failure to be able to speak without having to defend every other word can be a cost at times. You can't speak your concept for the componet parts or theories are disputed or attacked. Let them stand in defiance of anothers position and many times the expansion of idea's is lost in the conflict.
Wow, do I understand this one too!!! How about getting suspended from an email group for just such an "offence?" Even though another started the thread and is keeping it going?
Yet is that also a sign of human nature and the persception of what ones self worth is?
It’s true, insecurity leads to fear which leads to … well… flaming what you don’t get. I think we’ve all done it only to later find we were wrong.

So, what is the cost of being advanced?
The same as anything else. Whatever you’re willing to pay.

[CzechWoods]

one word: responsibility

[Darkest Eve]

I liked Shosha's answer: Whatever you are willing to pay.

As I've grown, I've made it a point to remember that from whence I came; from the basic to the mundane. While I can do the "higher-level" energy work, focus work, scrying, etc... I can still also use my tools, do the "entry-level" energy work, and remember the basics.

To me, knowing that and being able to do that is important for someone who does or plans to teach others. How can you teach others something if you can't perform the basic functions yourself? It isn't easy.

I think if you lose what brought you to that point in the first place... you lose more than it is probably worth.

I equate this a lot of times with some IT professionals, who always look for the complex solution, rather than seeing the obvious (and simple) answer.

For example:

One day, my manager was having an issue with her text being teeny tiny on her browser. They came over, poked around with a bunch of stuff, and couldn't figure out what was wrong... offering to replace her monitor, etc.

The solution: Choosing a larger font size on her browser.

:lol:

Sounds silly, right?

But much the same principle applies. By being too 'high-level' or 'above' the simple and easy tasks, you lose much time, energy, and waste a lot of effort when those could be put to better use.

Just my .02.

[watersprite]

I think that one can pursue their path while having a family life and a job. You have to set your priorities. Family and husband come first, and you can follow a solitary path and still communicate with your fellow seekers.
In these times, it is ESSENTIAL to put ones' family first. But that can involve being green, Recycling and re-using everything, as part of your craft. Planting as much of your own food and herbs as you can and teaching the benefits of both. It is enriching.

[Darth Brooks]

(1) In my own experience, I've learned that the more and more I practice the exact same ritual, the less significant and powerful it becomes. In the more advanced stages of my initiatory Work, I have had to adapt myself to the necessity of never practicing the exact same ritual twice. There must always be something that is done differently, some alteration, some variation.

(2) As I khepher more and more, I feel more and more in tune with Set, the universe, and myself - but I also feel more and more isolated from the rest of humanity. Many of my experiences do not fit into the strictly "black-and-white" picture of reality that most people follow, which makes it more and more difficult for me to connect with them. For instance, I listen to many people pass judgment against "the other side" - whatever "the other side" happens to be in context - and I listen to the people on "the other side" saying the same exact things about their detractors. And all I can think about is how both sides are really more similar than either one would like to accept, and how people are going to blow this planet out of orbit just because they can't get over themselves. This dichotomizing occurs everywhere, not only between warring countries but between political parties, religions, co-workers, neighbors. And the more I come into being, the sicker it makes me feel to see this kind of crap taking place.

[watersprite]

There is a certain connection with The Earth that I find is necessary to me. So the Earth is my focus. That includes all the things I mentioned in an earlier post. Growing my own herbs is essential to me. As well as growing as much of my own food as I can, and finding ways that are easier to me to be able to nurture it. Homegrown tomatoes are better than any tomato you could ever buy. Now I would like to do ginger.

[Fiamma]

So, what is the cost of being advanced?

So, what is the cost of being advanced?
Let me just state, first off, that I have no idea what "advanced" really is. I have found that my religious practice and views are not particularly similar to a vast majority of other pagans that I've encountered (referring now to my strictly personal religious practice, not my group affiliation with ADF) and I seem to hold some rather unusual views and experiences of my gods, so that narrows down more there, so there's not much to compare to, even if I were interested in comparing. As a result, in my little world, "advanced" is entirely self-referential, I am farther along now than I was a month ago or a year ago. It's advancement, not being advanced.

In the last year, I would say that I've advanced much. Shortly after the fall equinox last year, a lot of things started changing drastically for me. I was introduced much more closely- and dramatically- to a couple of gods. I gained a completely new view of Apollo, to whom I've been devoted for some time now, not a view that I'd never known before, but one with which I was previously only aware of on a strictly intellectual basis, I gained a very sudden, up close, personal and traumatic familiarity with that view, with that, my life changed rather drastically in a few months time.

A year later, my life is far better in many ways. I'm living in a much better place. I'm involved in a romantic relationship with elements that I never believed in before it happened to me. I'm so much happier overall. While I was never particularly unhealthy, I know that I am healthier than I was, physically and mentally.

All it cost me was a chunk of my self-identity, my "place" (Where I thought I was, what I thought I was doing, I was beginning ADF's Clergy Training Program after about eight years of being called to serve as clergy and then taking the steps to train as such, then realize I was doing the wrong thing), my sense of belonging to my grove, where I had been involved heavily for three years, a bout of depression and mourning, a large chunk of what had been my social life, and for a time, my happiness. I felt lost and aimless for months.

I have a difficult time relating to a lot of people in many ways. Not because OMG Im sooooo speshul, but because I think I'm coming from a very different place than a lot of people. I can't think of too many people who would be at all interested in living my life. Basically, my religion is the primary thing in my life. (Tnat includes my relationship with my girlfriend One of the first things that we determined at the beginning of the relationship was that religion came before anything else fpr each of us, including each other. This probably sounds crazy to a lot of folks, possibly even harsh or cruel, but it works out for both of us, and is a condition that rarely needs to be invoked.) Sometime in the middle of last winter, I realized with a bit of a start one day that were I Christian with the sort of devotion I hold, I would very possibly be strongly considering becoming a nun. Knowing that no similar option is available to me, and growing more and more discontent with my job and some of the things that were happening there, that threw me into a period of time where everything was wrong, nothing was right and well, as I said, I was just lost.

This wasn't the first time I've had to deal with complete and drastic change like that brought on by religious/spiritual things. The cost was rather heavy, involved a lot of stress and upheaval. After a while, certain things fell into place, other things came up, they got all crazy and then they calmed down again. The last two months have been very low-stress and happy, but I'm not expecting that to last forever, I know the process is going to repeat and I'm going to have to deal with more of it on the way to wherever I'm going.

So...at what cost? For me, it was just about everything that's important to me, some of it on a temporary basis, some of it permanently.

[Morgaine_cla]

I wouldn't know the cost of being some supercalifragalistic "Advanced Pagan"... [edit] ...So, I guess I can't say that I know what "Advanced Paganism" feels like. But... I imagine that if you feel "Advanced" and special like that...

Interesting.

I assumed we were defining "advanced" as "making progress" on a path. We all progress, and how far we progress directly corresponds to how willing we are to maintain a disciplined practice... It's no different than anything else in life. Music, writing, medicine... pick any art or craft and it's always the same. You can't become competent without making an effort. So I think we were using the word "advanced" to mean the progress you make as a result of the work that you do.

I would agree with you when you say that "advancing" (or "progressing") makes one more aware of how little one knows. Certainly that has been the case for me, and I think for many others here as well.

[RainInanna]

I would agree with you when you say that "advancing" (or "progressing") makes one more aware of how little one knows. Certainly that has been the case for me, and I think for many others here as well.

*nods* Good point. I was going to come back and say something similar, but I like this pragmatic view you have posted.

Advanced is a process, not a destination :)

[cydira]

As I have progressed in my studies I have found that perhaps the greatest sacrifice I have had to make is time. In spending time on my spiritual studies, I have given up time to pursue other interests which have since waned. I have also found that my efforts to understand things have left me in a position where others have difficulty comprehending some of the things that I express.

It's a communication gap that makes things quite challenging. I find myself viewed as being 'crazy' more often by my side of the family who consider getting into conversations regarding spirituality or comparative religion. I also find myself increasingly viewed as a morally 'bad' person because my 'interest' in witchcraft wasn't 'just a phase' or 'teenage rebellion.' It's made relations with an uncle of mine distant and strained, as he feels that my choice of religion is as bad as severe abuse of recreational drugs.

At the same time, my progression in my studies has resulted in I find myself in a position where I feel a greater moral obligation to guide others when they are in a state of difficulty where I can assist them. That cheezy adage that states 'with great power comes great responsibility' can hold true in the case of knowledge. My increased understanding of complex situations requires me to consider more of the implications of my actions. It makes some of my decisions more difficult then they were when I was more ignorant.

*shrugs* It's much like the cost of growing up.

[Windsmith]

Knowledge obligates action.

That's the cost for me. The more I learn, the more I see the work I need to do, and the more I advance, the more I develop the skills to do that work, until I can no longer sit on my bum and be disengaged.

Bummer.

[*oonagh*]

i suppose i'll never know. i just *am*. i have no idea if i'm "advanced" or not.

[HetHert]

What is the cost of being advanced in practice? Is there any cost, or is it just a trade off of one for another? This was inspired by the thread by PrincesKLS asking what is advanced.

The cost...
If sluffing off old ideals and personal mind constructs count then yes there is a cost. Casting off that which no longer works is part of the price of growth IMO. Advancement for me has usually rendered certain boundries obsolete or proven false or useless. In expanding my awareness and understanding the ignorance is lost. So yeah...

the cost is lost ignorance.


For years have I pushed forward, refining my beliefs and exploring. From the first question that popped into my head when my earliest teacher started asking me and teaching me.

Teaching things that I had no interest in to those that were like the breathe of life to me. Hours spent reading Tarot cards to learning how to read with regular playing cards. Scrying in pools of water, the surface of lakes and upon a cloudless sky. Trying to read tea leaves and having no luck for it made no sense to me.

Yet, in my rush forward those things I dis-liked so greatly now lost to the sands of time. Hand me a deck of tarot and I would be hard pressed to even read them now much less recall what each card of the arcana ment. Yes, I retain the general knowledge of use and purpose but must admit I am but less than novice with them now. Death echoes accross the sands of time from what I once though the card meant.

Where I once scryed upon the surface of water or sky, I find I do so now frequently with the closed eye upon the inner screen. Though I admit I get lost in the image of the reflection and imagery of a still pond or the vast blue of a clear sky.

Sometimes it seems the advance has removed the beauty of things for me. I look upon the rock face and my thoughts turn to the forces that created it and the ages that it has stood. I ask the "what If?" questions as I try to understand the possible outcomes that could have changed it.

When was the last time you closed your eyes and allowed the wind to tease your hair and face? Teased without thinking of the odor that is carried upon it and / or the moisture that is moved with it. But just be a child again and feel it's pull upon you?

I try everday to find something beautiful...usually don't have to look far. :weirdsmil



Perhaps in some ways the need of the group is strong to remind us of those things as we see the affect / effect upon those new to the path-walk.


At times it seems the cost of being advanced is to be alone. It can be difficult to express idea's and concepts when you speak only to your self. When your path-walk has narrowed to such a state that others can try to relate but never trully comprehend that which you speak.

This I concur with wholeheartedly



Failure to be able to speak without having to defend every other word can be a cost at times. You can't speak your concept for the componet parts or theories are disputed or attacked. Let them stand in defiance of anothers position and many times the expansion of idea's is lost in the conflict. Yet is that also a sign of human nature and the persception of what ones self worth is?

So, what is the cost of being advanced?

Yes...and what you speak of is what I find to be true as well. The more refined and personal the path the less and less one can talk about it with any modicum of justice or coherancy. Though I think it is, at the same time, important to remember the rudimentary blocks that allowed us to find, create, and walk our individual path. These have merrit and truth to them.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Muhahahaha...The Cost ?

You may not be a slacker...and you must give up
your desire to relax , and not be available to the
Spiret Helpers...

At least in my Tradition...:bigredgri

[Dewduster]

If by Advanced you are implying learning experience then the short ans. is time. What ever the cost it is more than worth it if you are learning what you, your soul/sprit needs to learn in this level of existence.

[Morgaine_cla]

...perhaps the greatest sacrifice I have had to make is time... I have also found that my efforts to understand things have left me in a position where others have difficulty comprehending some of the things that I express... My increased understanding of complex situations requires me to consider more of the implications of my actions.

I can really relate to what you are saying here. I remember one of the master teachers with whom I studied ending our first intensive study sessions by telling us not to expect other people to understand what we'd experienced or the way our experiences had changed us. It sounded so melodramatic!... After all, we couldn't have changed so much in such a short time. Then I went back to my "normal" life!

It was amazing how many people wanted to force me back into former ways of being, and shocking how many resented my progress or wanted me to hand them "the answers" (so they could use them in their own workshops, I kid you not!), etc... Mostly, I was shocked by how these experiences had transformed my own worldview. I no longer saw the world through the same lens as most people around me. There really is no way to translate that experience for those who've never had it. Even if one tries to understand, ultimately, whatever lies outside of one's experience lies beyond one's understanding. The best one can hope for is to reinterpret the truth so that it resembles something familiar.

I also understand what you are saying about the heightened sense of personal and collective responsibility. As we become more sophisticated in our appreciation of what we're doing, questions of ethics, values, and personal codes of honour are all meticulously revisited and sometimes redefined and priorities get reorganized. Hopefully, we learn a much finer respect for the power of thoughts, words, and intentions, and learn to assume personal responsibility for the consequences of our actions.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Bendithion

[No More Apologies]

It's a communication gap that makes things quite challenging. I find myself viewed as being 'crazy' more often by my side of the family who consider getting into conversations regarding spirituality or comparative religion. I also find myself increasingly viewed as a morally 'bad' person because my 'interest' in witchcraft wasn't 'just a phase' or 'teenage rebellion.' It's made relations with an uncle of mine distant and strained, as he feels that my choice of religion is as bad as severe abuse of recreational drugs.

Gosh, sounds horrible. I know what you mean though. It can make you feel a bit crazy for awhile until you reach out to those friends and family who help remind you what your priorities really are. Then suddenly you realize there's no need to get paranoid about what people think of you, you just keep on trucking as the person you are :)

[Dumunzi]

I have to admit when I first started my journey that led me to where I am now everything seemed so new, exciting, and absolutely everything seemed possible!

Now, it's still exciting, the limits are far reaching, but I have to admit that feeling is quite hard to replicate.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Now, it's still exciting, the limits are far reaching, but I have to admit that feeling is quite hard to replicate.


I find that is one of the things I have also lost as I advance upon my pathwalk. The things I first discovered years ago filled me with such a charge that I could go on and on four hours in discussion of my little discoveries. Nothing was ever to small or of such a little importance that it did not swell in me and make me feel larger than life. That each success gave birth to a thousand new idea's to explore and possibilities to consider.

Yet for many years now the charge has become harder and harder to realize. In some ways the early charges are recalled and a faint echo of them remains. Yet the newer never lives up to the old in excitment.

In some ways the old charge was filled with awe and surprise of the unknown. In many ways today seems more expected and perhaps even planned for. I guess one might even say the old times were a constant state of unknown stimulation and possibilities while today is just routine to me.

In some ways actually frustrating to recall what was for it reminds me of the loss of an unlimited ability to believe and imagine. Yet that too is sad for it is the fruition of an early lesson that I shall advance to the point where the joys of youth and its energy shall fade into the narrow path that is the trail upon which I have advanced.

My earliest teacher always told me I was upon the warriors path and the final destination was to battle self, for there in lies the deepest of our truths and hardest of our battles. Even to the point where we battle within at the expense of those things without.

Strange it's been more than 40 years since those lessons but they are the ones that stand strongest before me today. All around the globe only to arrive back at the starting point where it all began in so many ways.

[Deerwoman]

Damn community involvement... mumble mumble :2G:

I would have to say the cost for me is trying to live up to the expectations of others in my local community; hosting events, workshops, making sure to attend other groups' and covens' events. It's a lot of hard work being "advanced" in practice! Plus that whole responsibility thing, the further you advance, the more responsibility you receive. More training, more practice, more time dedicated to the old religion. But I love it, so I don't really see it being any other way. There's also the fact of knowing I'll have to teach eventually and be responsible for students. I think I'll put that off for another few years... or a decade or so... :smileroll

[Dio]

I have learned most of my spiritual lessons, not be reading the words of wise people or in solitary rituals or in deep discussion with masters, but by doing all the things that make me most human.

I've always admired your wisdom, Cheddar.

We humans each believe to be individual and special, and yet we are all on this crazy earth together, doing our crazy primate thing. We learn most about each other by experiencing our own humanity. More than likely, all the 'good' and 'bad' human traits you find within yourself, are the same 'good' and 'bad' traits that everyone else struggles with.....some more than others. Humanity is just as natural as the air we breathe and flora and fauna that surrounds our planet. I think humanity is also one of the most difficult and painful forms of nature to embrace and accept because we're such shits to ourselves and to each other.

[Morgaine_cla]

Greetings,


I am pondering what's being said about losing the "charge" of excitement one feels in the beginning of the journey. I experienced that too, but I've found my way back to it. I suspect I will lose it again and have to find my way back another way, but we'll see... To get the charge back I had to do several things differently:


Approach each experience with a sense of heightened anticipation, but no specific expectations (a sense of "something wonderful is about to happen, but I don't know what").
Slow down and stay in the moment of experience.
Get out of my head and back into my heart.
Stop expecting to feel what I felt before; open to and focus fully on what I feel in this moment, now.


From what I found, I would say that the "charge" is actually the same or greater; it's our receptiveness and sensitivity to it that diminishes with increased familiarity. We "know what to expect" so we don't pay attention the same way we used to. When we first did this, we had no expectations about what might happen or how we would feel, so we were totally open to, and accepting of, the experience. I think we can each recapture the "charge", as it exists in the present moment, if we're willing to let go of our expectations and recapture that "beginner mind".

I wonder whether a lot of people who go searching from group to group and path to path are really just hoping to renew this "charged" feeling. Anyway, it's an interesting issue. Thank you for bringing it up.

[feralmama]

So, what is the cost of being advanced?


I'm rather new here, so I haven't posted much yet. I've been reading a lot of the threads, however.

I'm really finding this thread to be about the first place in a forum I've been able to find myself in what feels like familiar ground.. due to having been practicing my own path/s for over twenty years. The familiar ground being that many people here actually seem to be in a similar place as I am with the cost of advancement.

For me, the costs have included a degree of isolation; I lose patience with people who think they know everything but so clearly know little, and I often simply cannot communicate a concept that is in my mind to someone else who has not either 'been there' or could if they just happened to step in that direction. I find more advanced Pagans tend to get things in fewer words, they grasp a nonlinear, intangible concept because they have the experience or nature to do so. So I've distanced myself from a lot of other Pagans... admittedly, the more mainstream Paganism in general becomes, the more people I find I can't relate to within the community because so many of them think in ways that I used to never see in the community but only in other, mainstream, dogmatic religions.

Other costs... the loss of newness. Certainly. I've for few years been in a place of 'there is nothing new under the sun' and I really miss new discoveries, the way they felt, the excitement of a revelation, or even a really potent new ritual.

Of course, part of that is just my own fault, and I keep thinking I just need to find where the new is again. Because I don't know everything, have not experienced everything, so clearly the new is out there somewhere! I hope I'm finding my way to that.

[Nylphenia]

interesting.

i wonder at times if i am novice or advanced, i have been in the void for over a dozen years now, transcended with my goddess.... my goodness i have lived for 28 years immersed in my craft - yet i do not consider myself advanced.

Others do though. and so on their views i post here and i can say the only cost has been causing fright in others. Fear at the power that i can channel. It is not a thing i like to admit to myself even but here it is. that is the only cost - i am humble about it - but i know it and i make it clear to people that it is as such if they choose to be around me magically. it took me time to realize until one evening in a friend's circle i visited - the power i drew down made the HP stumble and unable to continue the chant. I picked up and lead for him. when i realized that i had scared 8 newbies at their first circle with the power... that i had made a man twice as long in practice and twice my age unable to lead his coven due to the power surge and flow... (and he had experienced my energy before several times) - i knew that i was a lightening rod.. and thus am solitary due to the effects i have witnessed. I do not wish to cause that look within the eyes - it is not my intent to be feared - or revered. i prefer to hide and just be me. I do not wish to scare people from the path by showing them too much too soon, nor do i wish for the other type of reaction - the addiction to power - which i have also encountered.

so that is what i have given up - a freedom of open energy within the community (let alone my own home due to my 2 year old son). ~shrugs~ not that i will not use such to heal those in need - or support those in workings that require it once they have a clear formed intent and plan of achievement.

though i must say - i have found the call to openly be in circle with others increasing these last few months again - something is pressing at me to show myself again and teach basic energy workings.