Dancing with the Shadows just outside the Comfort Zone

[Shosha]

I've been "advancing" myself...
Trying to learn more... and more and more and more...

This seems to be disturbing some of the people around me.

I'm asking questions that draw them from their comfortable places and into the arms of shadows...

sure... it's scarey for me some times... but I'm not stopping!
I need to know. I need to know everything... and will attempt for the rest of my life to find out.

why are people afraid of VooDoo? or HooDoo or any other kind of "doo" you can come up with. What it is actually?

What's Santaneria, really? And why does it make so many people afraid?
When I've brought them up at pagan gatherings or other forums and email lists I've been asked, eventually, not to talk about it since it "upsets people." Why? I mean, why does it upset them so?

What's the REAL difference between "an it harm none do as thou wilt" and do as thou will is the law and the law is love"


Why are animal sacrifices "wrong." who said so and who were they to declare it?

Are deities thought forms? are they real? are they the personalities and names that people have assigned to aspects of a single imginative concioucness? are they simbiant with us?

Why are people offended when you don't believe their truths?

Why can't people have individual truths? What's real for me might not be real for you... and the other way around too. What's wrong with that idea?

Why are "fluffy bunnies" so frowned upon? Can't it just be seen as that's the path they're on right now?

And so what if someone's path varies from another... even though they go by the same label? And who's who to say what label someone may or may not use? and why does anyone care what you call your path? I might call myself an Eccletic Irish Shaman. so? Whatcha gonna do about it? It's the best nutshell I've found to explain the path I'm on to others.


I do want answers. Honest answers... if you're a smart azz then I'll expect the smart azz answer... i don't think it'll be less honest than someone else's.

Pipe up folks! Tell me what you think! Tell me what you know! what you wish you knew... what are you afraid to know?

Lets stretch those boundries and Slip out of the clutches of the Comfort Zone!

[Solya]

Fear of knowledge only creates fear of the unknown.

I'm not afraid of what I have been taught and of what I want to learn. I've read a lot on many subjects, but limit the things I definitely want to experience to what I personally feel comfortable with. I love the Shadows, because they serve to strengthen me. I am a very "light" person to be around, but my huge shadow side is something that needs to be appeased sometimes by studying subjects others might condemn.

One can only be afraid of shadows if one's scared that their own light is not going to hold against them.

[Shosha]

That... was beautifully said!

Thank you!!

[Teresa]

People are scared of people that can converse and commune with the dead. I practice Voodoo and also Hoodoo and I do get some stares from time to time. This is something unknown to them. A foreign practice. Many run from the unknown because it is not all comfy and safe feeling.

It was natural for me to have a relationship with my Ancestors as it is for many people. Hollywood has painted a very negative view of Voodoo through the years, think of Skeleton Key, Eve's Bayou, some of the older movies that came on on Sundays showed Voodoo Practitioners as cannibals and people that captured strangers to give as offerings to the gods. People do not really understand just what is involved so ignorance plays a huge part in the fear factor.

There were animal sacrifices in the Bible and all through out history, I do not necessarily view it as wrong.

Santeria also is similar to Voodoo. They worship Orishas. They have been veneered with the Saints of Catholism. Most people are afraid because it isn't all " Love and Light". We do not follow " The Rede". People like me feel that there is no white and black magic. We do what we feel is necessary, period. Sometimes that can be viewed by others as using types of magic they frown upon.

It is my opinion that we have to embrace all of ourselves be it shadow or light, good or bad. We have to face facts and then determine a course of action for improvement if we deem any is necessary.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think part of the problem is that to many the Pagan community is a safe place and they strive to keep it so. Not only safe but in many ways not to far removed from the Christian religion and it's perspective of what is good and what is evil, even to the inclusion of such a notion.

In my searching upon the Shamans pathway I find that many do not want to hear or discuss the darker facets of the pathway. Seldom is the notion of the Shadow self or shamanic death spoken off. Seldom will one get a conversation going that allows for the full extent of sacrifice or the various groupings that in the past made up the Shamanic type roles in various groups.

In some ways I think the net has reduced the ability to get more detailed. In the old days one would speak in small groups of these things and it was controlled as to who could hear or participate. Today, there is no control really as to who is present, thus the only control is to prevent it from occuring or make it harder to do so by hiding it behind many doors and barriers.

Many of the things that cause hate and discontent are carried into the Pagan pathway, even as they claim to be enlightened and open to new things. Many of the old outcast's remain outcast within the confins of this new old order. Many sterotypes painted in the mainstream religions remain sterotypes for those vices were brough into the mold.

In my studies many older groups used the shaman figure to help their own community even as they caused harm and destruction upon another community. Death was a smuch thier domain as life, and the realms of travel were many and the encounters harmful as well as helpful.

The Shaman taught the world was cruel but also how to survive in the physical world and how to honor the spirits of all things. If not honor then how not to offend it.

In my learnings from the family trad it was easy the family was the most important thing of all. What ever it took to defend the family was right. Defend could be as little as confronting a thing head on to causing hurt and harm to one or a group that would harm it.

[DamionSnow]

The answer and the reasons behind it are both one simple thing.
Fear... it stems from the flight or flee response that is inherent in every human the trepidation and the hesitancy to look in those dark places, be it worldly or internally. even as incitefull and cautious as a shaman can be they too can eventually look into those dark spots and never look out...and then we lead back to the fear. That built in fear, that when we as an individuals look into that dark space we wont be able to tear our eyes off it either....




Or maybe I'm just full of it....

[Artiste-LiLi]

I've been "advancing" myself...
Trying to learn more... and more and more and more...

This seems to be disturbing some of the people around me.

I'm asking questions that draw them from their comfortable places and into the arms of shadows...

sure... it's scarey for me some times... but I'm not stopping!
I need to know. I need to know everything... and will attempt for the rest of my life to find out.

why are people afraid of VooDoo? or HooDoo or any other kind of "doo" you can come up with. What it is actually?

What's Santaneria, really? And why does it make so many people afraid?
When I've brought them up at pagan gatherings or other forums and email lists I've been asked, eventually, not to talk about it since it "upsets people." Why? I mean, why does it upset them so?

What's the REAL difference between "an it harm none do as thou wilt" and do as thou will is the law and the law is love"


Why are animal sacrifices "wrong." who said so and who were they to declare it?!

Because of exactly what these good people have said: Fear and an "Hollywood Mentality".



Are deities thought forms? are they real? are they the personalities and names that people have assigned to aspects of a single imginative concioucness? are they simbiant with us?

Don't know....I can only say what they are to me. To me they are real.


Why are people offended when you don't believe their truths?

Because people like to be "RIGHT" and people fear what they do not understand.


Why can't people have individual truths? What's real for me might not be real for you... and the other way around too. What's wrong with that idea?

It does not "conform" and most people LIKE conformity...it makes them comfortable and at ease. Humans are, predominately, all about "easy".


Why are "fluffy bunnies" so frowned upon? Can't it just be seen as that's the path they're on right now?

"Fluffies" do not bother me....they are what, and where, they are because that is what and were they are supposed to be. I think others find them offensive because they can be quite....ahem....vehement and vocal regarding things they know nothing about and do not understand.


And so what if someone's path varies from another... even though they go by the same label? And who's who to say what label someone may or may not use? and why does anyone care what you call your path? I might call myself an Eccletic Irish Shaman. so? Whatcha gonna do about it? It's the best nutshell I've found to explain the path I'm on to others.

Again, because people like to be right and they like conformity.



I do want answers. Honest answers... if you're a smart azz then I'll expect the smart azz answer... i don't think it'll be less honest than someone else's.

Pipe up folks! Tell me what you think! Tell me what you know! what you wish you knew... what are you afraid to know?

Lets stretch those boundries and Slip out of the clutches of the Comfort Zone!


I have no fears in regards to expanding my knowledge and spirituality. I will do, have done and can do whatever is necessary in that regard. I fear nothing within myself...light or shadow...it is all me. I follow an Applachian Family Tradition and a New Orleans style Voodo/HooDoo Path. I am trying to learn more about the "pure" Vodou/Vodoun religions. I embrace my light self and my shadow self....I embrace the shadow realms and paths...I've always been drawn to them and fascinated by them. I believe that we cannot live in light without knowing and understanding the dark.

[brymble]

I think that advancing along one's chosen path at some point ceases to be a desire to know it all and becomes replaced with an understanding that we don't, can't and really don't need to know it all, or even necessarily have any concrete "answers".

[Shawn Cameron]

why are people afraid of VooDoo? or HooDoo or any other kind of "doo" you can come up with. What it is actually?

People are notorious for being afraid of things that they don’t understand or don’t make them feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and one of the few things I know about VooDoo (or was told anyway) is that they do animal sacrifice and that tends to make people a bit queasy. From what I can recall (don’t quote me on it.) VooDoo is the Religion and HooDoo is the Magical practice.


What's Santaneria, really? And why does it make so many people afraid?
When I've brought them up at pagan gatherings or other forums and email lists I've been asked, eventually, not to talk about it since it "upsets people." Why? I mean, why does it upset them so? Same as above… I don’t know anything about Santaneria really… sorry.


What's the REAL difference between "an it harm none do as thou wilt" and do as thou will is the law and the law is love"


No idea I don’t quote ether of them.


Why are animal sacrifices "wrong." who said so and who were they to declare it? I don’t think they are wrong personally though I think most people who preach it are animal lovers who don’t really know what it’s all about. To find out more there is a very interesting essay written by someone who sacrifices animals on their farm/homestead.

http://www.cauldronfarm.com/asphodel/articles/towards_a_better_understanding.html


Are deities thought forms? are they real? are they the personalities and names that people have assigned to aspects of a single imginative concioucness? are they simbiant with us? That would be a mater of path and prospective, a mater of ‘truths’ as you will as defined by your next few questions. Personally I believe that they are real and simbiant. They are not all knowing or all doing and though they may come to our world threw the astral they dwell primarily in their own respective realms, but this can cover many topics so I will leave it at that.



Why are people offended when you don't believe their truths? Because they are not firm enough in their truths that they believe your contradicting them makes them untrue, if that makes sense…


Why can't people have individual truths? What's real for me might not be real for you... and the other way around too. What's wrong with that idea? They can and they do and there is nothing wrong with that, its just that not EVERYONE sees it that way but there are those that do.


Why are "fluffy bunnies" so frowned upon? Can't it just be seen as that's the path they're on right now? Fluffy Bunnies are usually only frowned upon when they try and push there fluffy onto others. As long as they accept that others my see things differently they are usually left alone but most that are defined as fluffy aren’t willing to do that.


And so what if someone's path varies from another... even though they go by the same label? And who's who to say what label someone may or may not use? and why does anyone care what you call your path? I might call myself an Eccletic Irish Shaman. so? Whatcha gonna do about it? It's the best nutshell I've found to explain the path I'm on to others.
There is nothing wrong with that. I think the only time problems really arise with labels is when a label is has a definition, even if its loose, and people take on the name because it sounds cool or they don’t really know what it means, another label, or the current label+ something else might describe yourself better then just using one label that doesn’t completely fit. Personally I don’t care what you call your self.




Have never been afraid to ask or answer questions and from what I have seen of this sight neither do the people here. So keep stretching those boundaries and never be afraid to ask.

[Shosha]

I think part of the problem is that to many the Pagan community is a safe place and they strive to keep it so. Not only safe but in many ways not to far removed from the Christian religion and it's perspective of what is good and what is evil, even to the inclusion of such a notion.

In my searching upon the Shamans pathway I find that many do not want to hear or discuss the darker facets of the pathway. Seldom is the notion of the Shadow self or shamanic death spoken off. Seldom will one get a conversation going that allows for the full extent of sacrifice or the various groupings that in the past made up the Shamanic type roles in various groups.

In some ways I think the net has reduced the ability to get more detailed. In the old days one would speak in small groups of these things and it was controlled as to who could hear or participate. Today, there is no control really as to who is present, thus the only control is to prevent it from occuring or make it harder to do so by hiding it behind many doors and barriers.

Many of the things that cause hate and discontent are carried into the Pagan pathway, even as they claim to be enlightened and open to new things. Many of the old outcast's remain outcast within the confins of this new old order. Many sterotypes painted in the mainstream religions remain sterotypes for those vices were brough into the mold.

In my studies many older groups used the shaman figure to help their own community even as they caused harm and destruction upon another community. Death was a smuch thier domain as life, and the realms of travel were many and the encounters harmful as well as helpful.

The Shaman taught the world was cruel but also how to survive in the physical world and how to honor the spirits of all things. If not honor then how not to offend it.

In my learnings from the family trad it was easy the family was the most important thing of all. What ever it took to defend the family was right. Defend could be as little as confronting a thing head on to causing hurt and harm to one or a group that would harm it.


So, people like me... like us... don't get to have that safe place to talk about our paths?
I put my vote in that MW should start a little area where this sort of thing can offically be discussed without (hopefully) fear of being shunned/flammed/Etc.
How am I going to learn what I need to learn if I can't talk about it?
How can I teach what I need to teach if i can't talk about it?

I agree with what you said about the Family: One would be greatly advised NOT to mess with mine.
No.. that's not a dare or a threat either... it's just something the general "not nice" population should know. you know?

I also know what you mean about if you can't honour a spirit how not to offend it. There are some kinds of ... folk... that, as a human, one is just not able to please. Not that these folk are so terrible but that we're just SO different from each other and the cultures are exteremly difficult to get the hang of.

[Solya]

We all need a safe place. In fact, I believe we can only ever be truly safe if we are able to discuss this sort of thing with anyone who'll listen. It's not something that should be stuffed into a dark corner of our broomstick closet so it doesn't have to be looked at. The shadows have as much right to exist as the light does. People would do well to remember that before they judge. Many don't want to hear us anyway.

We are so in need of some definite discussion on this subject. I might be as light as they come, probably, but even I feel the desire to speak up on behalf of a subject which is feared by pagans and non-pagans alike. I'm the fluffball, but that doesn't mean I don't bite when provoked. In order to learn how to truly defend oneself, one needs to know everything and not give in to blatant misconceptions and prejudice.

[DamionSnow]

as much as anyone has or does talk about animal sacrifice,dark moon magicks, and such.....(including houdoun and voodoon practices)...has anyone here ever taken a life has anyone here been in the room as a life expires and the soul threads its way out of the body and into the afterness....

if you have then I do not understand how you could speak of sacrifice...of live animal sacrifice..Has anyone here ever taken a life?????????????


has anyone here ever been in the room when someone was killed??


probly not..Take my word..you really dont wanna watch that..let alone cause that...and as for the karmic punishment...well..

[~Elise~]

as much as anyone has or does talk about animal sacrifice,dark moon magicks, and such.....(including houdoun and voodoon practices)...has anyone here ever taken a life has anyone here been in the room as a life expires and the soul threads its way out of the body and into the afterness....

if you have then I do not understand how you could speak of sacrifice...of live animal sacrifice..Has anyone here ever taken a life?????????????


has anyone here ever been in the room when someone was killed??


probly not..Take my word..you really dont wanna watch that..let alone cause that...and as for the karmic punishment...well..

Voodoo just doesn't randomly kill animals for the hell of it. There is a prescribed practice to it and the animal is eaten afterwards, not just tossed away.
THERE IS NO KARMIC PUNISHMENT FOR THAT.

(this next part is not directed at you specifically DaimonSnow)...

Get real, people. All that is 'dark' is NOT bad and evil and all that is 'light' is not good. Good and evil, light and dark are HUMAN constructs.
Not all people believe in Karma, either...esp as how it is meant here in the West. Not all believe in a Three Fold Law or the Wiccan Rede, even.

JMO and YMMV

Elise

[Shosha]

as much as anyone has or does talk about animal sacrifice,dark moon magicks, and such.....(including houdoun and voodoon practices)...has anyone here ever taken a life has anyone here been in the room as a life expires and the soul threads its way out of the body and into the afterness....

if you have then I do not understand how you could speak of sacrifice...of live animal sacrifice..Has anyone here ever taken a life?????????????


has anyone here ever been in the room when someone was killed??


probly not..Take my word..you really dont wanna watch that..let alone cause that...and as for the karmic punishment...well..


Actually... yes. I have helped take many lives before. I've also watched a couple people die. And I STILL talk about sacrifice. The offering of a life-force to a deity when an animal will die or be killed for food anyway...
Or so I'm understanding from the folks here talking to me about it.

I didn't start this thread to upset people... But I need to connect with other folks who are, if not walking the same at least a parallel path that is NOT all sunshine but also dappled with shadow.

And I agree with Elise:

[quote"All that is 'dark' is NOT bad and evil and all that is 'light' is not good. Good and evil, light and dark are HUMAN constructs.
Not all people believe in Karma, either...esp as how it is meant here in the West. Not all believe in a Three Fold Law or the Wiccan Rede, even."[/quote]

That was one of my points. What makes all these things SO upsetting to people.. and bless your heart, here you are, upset and perhaps willing to talk about it.
Ok... explain to me, please... your end of it. What's scarey.. what's bad.. how is it wrong... please. This... this is why I started the thread... to find out... I need to know all sides before I can make a judgement as to whether or not something belongs to my path. I do not follow something because it's always been done that way.. or because this is the new way to do it... I follow something that I can.. in my heart of heart's, understand, identify with, and can honestly say belongs to me spiritually.

Have at me. yell if you need to, cry... do what you have to but make me understand your end of this topic.

Thank you.

[Teresa]

I do not have a problem with sacrifices and I grew up on a farm so slaughtering animals is something that does not bother me. The chickens, cows, hogs, boars, etc that have been used for sacrifice have also been cooked and given as a food offering and also a portion eaten by us. My Ancestors were hunters. They hunted and killed all kinds of wild game and bison etc for food. When they had a successful hunt they made offerings to the "Gods of the Hunt" and also partook of the meat as food. Almost every part of the animal was used in some fashion.


Animal sacrifices were quiet common in Biblical times and Christians made offerings, yet some people see this as such a dark and evil and vile thing and have even said it is Satanic. Others that did the same thing which was customary back then were called savages and heathens.

Even though I have no problem with sacrifices, I do not condone just killing something for the heck of it and letting the carcass just rot away. Waste does bother me. We are part of the food chain and the cycles come and go only to be repeated again.

There are people that just go for the shock value out there and wanna seem so scary and evil and those fakes are the ones that make it into the news papers making others look bad.

As far as Voodoo, there are many forms of sacrifice. Offerings include foods, Whiskey,special sugary types of drinks are made for them, Tobacco, perfumes, flours, grains, beans, laces, canes, swords, candles, oils etc. Every event does not involve an animal sacrifice. Most of the time an offering can be of something that you have already cooked like on Mondays an offering of Red beans and Rice to a certain Loa is customary.

It is my opinion that most animal sacrifices are a performed in a more humane way than some of these new animal farms mass raise their animals for marketing and more humane than puppy mills.

I do not believe in just taking a human life without due reason. I can tell you when I was mugged at gun point and struggling with the mugger over the gun that if it looked like it was going to be me or him, I would have taken his life if I was able. I have no regret for feeling that way. I did not start the set of events. He was not going to take my money and just kill me without a fight or struggle.

[Artiste-LiLi]

as much as anyone has or does talk about animal sacrifice,dark moon magicks, and such.....(including houdoun and voodoon practices)...has anyone here ever taken a life has anyone here been in the room as a life expires and the soul threads its way out of the body and into the afterness....

if you have then I do not understand how you could speak of sacrifice...of live animal sacrifice..Has anyone here ever taken a life?????????????


has anyone here ever been in the room when someone was killed??


probly not..Take my word..you really dont wanna watch that..let alone cause that...and as for the karmic punishment...well..

Yes.
For food.
For my beliefs.

Yes.
I have seen many die...animal and person alike.
I sat with my mother for the last 4 days of her life and I watched as her soul slipped away. I worked in the medical field for close to 20 years...I saw much...such as sitting with and holding the hand of a 15 year old girl as she bled out on the O.R. table from a self-inflicted gunshot wound....I felt and watched as her soul departed....and I cried for her loss.
I worked in the veterinary medical field for many years and saw much there. I saw more "waste of life" as a veterinary technician than I ever have in my spiritual life. I come from "farm/mountain" people and hunters....I have seen much there as well.

I do not follow the "threefold law", I do not believe in 'karmic punishment' as you call it, I feel no "karmic debt", I feel no blame, no stigma, no shame....because in doing what I have done, I have fulfilled my "obligation" and accepted my "responsibility" and I have done it in accordance with my conscience and within the bounds of my system of belief and my need. I "asked permission" and "gave thanks" when and where needed and required. When "permission" was denied or a different sacrifice requested, I have honoured that and have not given a "living gift". My families do not take sacrifice.....*any sacrifice*...lightly. We follow, what is for us, "appropriate protocol". Unless specifically called for the whole animal to be left as a "complete sacrifice", the animal's flesh is used to help feed the "community". Nothing is wasted. Not only that, but animal sacrifice is rarely used because it just is not needed...there are many sacrifices that are quite acceptable instead of an animal or other "living blood". Hollywood has done a grave disservice to the Vodou/HooDoo cultures by painting us as "willy nilly killers" who would slit an animal's throat for every single thing we do.......that is not true. We avoid animal sacrifice whenever possible.

Edit: As for killing someone......if it is me or them...or if it is one of my loved ones or them............*they* (the attacker/s) are DEAD. I would not willingly kill another human being except in defense.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I find it sort of ironic the number of people who see sacrifice as a bad thing yet really fail to see the connection between saying prayer at a feast or table and sacrrifice.

At the table they give thanks for this or that, Many in the Christian community actually give thanks for that which they are about to eat and thank their lord for proving it. Yet it trully is just another form of sacrifice that honors the creature that is feeding you and the god / goddess that one honors.

I also find it ironic the niumber who seem to equate sacrifice as the taking of a life. Sacrifice can be so many other things that it is nearly impossible to conceive.

I wonder how many think upon the little statement "I'd give anything for ________!" Yet fail to realize it is a willing sacrifice one is offering to make to achieve that which they desire.

I have written poems to honor my goddess and sacrificed them to her through flame and water. I have sacrificed items to them or given them to the land as needed. In times required I have added my blood as a sacrifice to the formula to mark that which I willing give.


I find the question of being present at the point of death to be really empty with regard to sacrifice. It for some reason you are sacrificing a life then the sacrifice is not about "YOU" feeling it. The release of energy is not meant for you or just you but is for the good of the community, the group etc. Seldom is it conceived of as an end of one but the start of another.

We see rituals of the sacrifical bull but do not realize the bull is not the end but the begining and is not seen as an end to the community. The release is a spark that causes the eruption of energy from all present, a little giving of themselves as part of the sacrifice.

I think the other facet of sacrifice that is missing, especially in taking a life, is that the person doing the sacrifice is no longer that person but a persona of which ever god / goddess they call upon. It is not George, Dave or Bob but Sheva, Kali, Coyete, etc.

Just to set the record straight though I know the MW after Dark area is supposed to be an area that one can talk freely in about the so called darker facets of our pathways. Yes you must sign up for it, but that is a safeguard for the site owners I think.

[~Elise~]

The area is MW DARK that is for the subjects like this. You have to sign up, yes, but it is free.

The link is in my signature line, as a matter of fact.

Elise

[RainInanna]

For the love of pete, if that stuff doesn't qualify for the "advanced paganism" forum I don't know what does. Really, no fluffy airheads screaming here that these things can't be posted.

(sorry, not directed specifically at any person here as much as this "ooh I'm too scary and dark to post here at MysticWicks, I need to do it on a much cooler forum where people get me" attitude)

The fact that some people don't get you or think your interests are "scary" is just a fact of life for many people. I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about it.

[Shosha]

I wonder how many think upon the little statement "I'd give anything for ________!" Yet fail to realize it is a willing sacrifice one is offering to make to achieve that which they desire.


Funny... I've always been careful to say what I'd give... just in case someone thought to take me up on it!

Not to make light of things... but it's true.

[Shosha]

You know...

I grew up on a farm. We slaughtered our own animals for food as did my Grandparents. My GramPa always made a point of going out the night before and talking to the animals he planned to "do in." He petted them, gave small treats, and explained how his family was going to be hungry and thanked them for giving their lives that we could eat. he said it was only fair to the animal to show respect.

I always did the same on our farm...even though when I started I was very small... 4 years old. My folks were VERY baptist... what I was doing was "cute" but nothing more to them (not that they were bad people, mind you.)


In reading the posts about animal sacrifice I'm starting to realise that I was doing animal sacrifices even when I was a tiny child and had no idea that that was what I was doing even though I knew why I did it. Sure... it was very basic, but there was still the understanding that it was a life that would be taken and a spirit that would be released.

Now, I've heard all the "OMGs" about there was this or that that was pagan that someone did and just now realized ... but this is honest to gosh true. Then again... GramPa said that if it wasn't for Gran, he'd never touch a Christian. Mom just said it waas because he was Old Irish. Later I found out he was a pagan dressing up as a catholic. (his words, not mine)

[Shosha]

The area is MW DARK that is for the subjects like this. You have to sign up, yes, but it is free.

The link is in my signature line, as a matter of fact.

Elise


Should this thread be moved then?

[CzechWoods]

i would try meditation, on your own, not thoughts, meditation. all answeres are there/here. all YOU need to do is to explore them.

who am i to do your learning for you?

[♀♥Lady Urania♥♀]

In short, im not afraid of any of it. And while unafraid doesnt mean be ignorant, still, I dont judge anything when it comes to spirituality, or have learned to, unless Ive either done something or experienced, directly, or someone very trusted per their opinion and experiences, may advise me to steer clear of it. Other than that, im all for the exploration, and shadowdancing would be, one of my explorations, and favorites actually :)

[~Elise~]

Should this thread be moved then?

No...not at all. It's going fine. I'm very happy for that, in fact.

[Shosha]

i would try meditation, on your own, not thoughts, meditation. all answeres are there/here. all YOU need to do is to explore them.

who am i to do your learning for you?


I didn't know I asked you to learn FOR me... but ok....

I'll keep meditating too... thanks!