"Buffy the Vampire Slayer slaying church attendance among women, study claims"

[Djiril]

Now there's a WTF headline for you!


The report claims more than 50,000 women a year have deserted their congregations over the past two decades because they feel the church is not relevant to their lives.
It says that instead young women are becoming attracted to the pagan religion Wicca, where females play a central role, which has grown in popularity after being featured positively in films, TV shows and books.
The study comes amid ongoing controversy over the role of women in all Christian denominations. Last month its governing body voted to allow women to become bishops for the first time, having admitted them to the priesthood in 1994, but traditionalist bishops have warned that hundreds of clergy and parishes will leave if the move goes ahead as planned.
The report's author, Dr Kristin Aune, a sociologist at the University of Derby, said: "In short, women are abandoning the church.
"Because of its focus on female empowerment, young women are attracted by Wicca, popularised by the TV series Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
"Young women tend to express egalitarian values and dislike the traditionalism and hierarchies they imagine are integral to the church.
"Women's ordination, as priests and now bishops, has dominated debate and headlines – but while looking at women in the pulpit we have taken our eyes off the pews, where a shift with more consequences for the church's survival is underway."
Her research, published in a new book called Women and Religion in the West, cites an English Church Census which found more than a million women worshippers have left churches since 1989.
Over the past decade, it claims, women have been leaving churches at twice the rate of men.
In addition, the census is said to show that teenage boys now outnumber girls in the pews for the first time.
Dr Aune says the church must adapt to the needs of modern women if it is to stop them leaving in their droves.

Read the rest. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/2603343/Buffy-the-Vampire-Slayer-slaying-church-attendance-among-women-study-claims.html)

[BlackLili]

While the article may have a basis in truth - women (and people in general) do seem to be leaving all Churches in droves - to say that "It's all the fault of Buffy" seems a bit inane.

But then, that snazzy picture of Sarah Michelle Gellar got more than one or two "curiosity clicks" on that article, I'm sure. :thumbsup:

[lightdragon]

yeah it's messed up. like one commentor said, why blame a show that was on only 7 yrs for the decades of decline of Church attendence.

[~Elise~]

Hey--was there anything hotter than the Evil Willow???...day-um!

[CzechWoods]

Buffy rulzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

period

[Sitalique]

Evil Willow was the best, love that look for her.
Then I always seem to go for the bad, loved Drusilla too

[BlackLili]

"Grr! Arrg!"

http://buffy3.free.fr/buffy/grr_arrgh.jpg

[~Elise~]

Gods, I loved that show...

[~Elise~]

A friend of mine wrote a piece of fanfic that won a buffy award...I helped him edit it and in return I was written into to the story as a minor character.

[Dr. K]

I think people of the christian faith are just search for anything they can blame for the decline in the numbers. The don't understand how a religion that stereotypically demeans woman and detracts from there value to society could at all turn away woman and have them seeking something that is more for filling to them on a spiritual and a feminine level, something that values woman as the leaders in the world they really are, and that allows people to worship and feel for filled without the scrutiny of an entire congregation of generally very judgmental people.

[Glowy]

Yes- sorry I am old school- it was the Wizard of Oz that made me switch. But Yes; Buffy does rock:boing:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Just wait until those witches in short plaid skirts ,
seduce those good christian boys...:bigredgri

Jezebels !

Yee Ha !

[lightdragon]

Hey--was there anything hotter than the Evil Willow???...day-um!
I think vampire Willow was the hottest. also the actress Allyson Hannigan became Wiccan supposedly during the show.


I think people of the christian faith are just search for anything they can blame for the decline in the numbers. The don't understand how a religion that stereotypically demeans woman and detracts from there value to society could at all turn away woman and have them seeking something that is more for filling to them on a spiritual and a feminine level, something that values woman as the leaders in the world they really are, and that allows people to worship and feel for filled without the scrutiny of an entire congregation of generally very judgmental people.
Some Christians.

[ignescentphoenix]

Hey--was there anything hotter than the Evil Willow???...day-um!

Nope, there was nothing hotter than Dark Willow.:hahugh:


"Grr! Arrg!"

http://buffy3.free.fr/buffy/grr_arrgh.jpg



Lol, I loved that at the end.:lol:


Gods, I loved that show...

I know, me too. This article just gives me another reason to love it even more.

[Phoenix Blue]

Just wait until those witches in short plaid skirts ,
seduce those good christian boys...:bigredgri

Jezebels !

Yee Ha !
It's almost enough to make a man convert just so he can convert back! :)

[LostSheep]

I think people of the christian faith are just search for anything they can blame for the decline in the numbers. .... .

All of them?

[Morrigan_Wolfwind]

Oh man, I LOVED Buffy! Spike was the best before he turned into a pansy, but his self-sacrifice by magical fire kind of made up for it.

[brymble]

Yes- sorry I am old school- it was the Wizard of Oz that made me switch. But Yes; Buffy does rock:boing:


What? They're not blaming it on heavy metal music and Dungeons & Dragons anymore?

I blame The Lord of the Rings for my fall from Mainstream Christian Grace - the books, not the movie. That, and spending all my Saturday nights in the company of likewise dateless, pimply-faced, nerdy guys, rolling polyhedral dice, listening to Aerosmith, and guzzling Pixie Stix and Mountain Dew.

Who can resist that kind of decadent temptation to hedonistic Pagan indulgences and meddling with the arcane powers of the shadows?

Wait a minute...Buffy? Is that still on? I thought it was the Harry Potter series that was seducing young people into the dark world of occultism. I'm confused, what pop culture icon is responsible for moral degradation this season? Gods, I feel so out of the loop.

[brymble]

"Grr! Arrg!"

http://buffy3.free.fr/buffy/grr_arrgh.jpg


Ok, I admit it, I lied. I switched because of that guy. Why sell your soul to a cartoon demon in a Chick Tract when he's so much cooler?

[Heart of All]

When I was a child, I used to watch Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie all the time and wished I had magical powers. When I was a teenager, I watched Charmed all the times.

Clearly these tv shows are why I am a pagan. Except I'm not a witch. Or a genie.

[brymble]

I had a satyr for an imaginary friend. Is it any wonder I grew up to frolic with Pan? CS Lewis's Narnia books have to take direct responsibility for that.

Oh the irony.

[BlackLili]

The scary truth? I was 5 when HBO adapted Jill Murphy's young adult novels "The Worst Witch" to a made for tv movie.

Fairuza Balk played "Mildred" - the worst witch - and the venerable Tim Curry as the "Grand Wizard" (be still my heart!)

The concept of gathering moss after midnight (or exactly at midnight) just captured my little imagination. I remember cutting out pieces of construction paper (orange, I hated it but it was all we had) and putting it in little bowls and "heating" it with a fire made of blankets underneath.

20+ years later, and here I still am, substituting one thing for another and hoping for results.

How's that for influence? :bow:

[sarabethv]

Young women tend to express egalitarian values and dislike the traditionalism and hierarchies they imagine are integral to the church.

Its stuff like THIS that make women turn away. We only IMAGINE that they are patriarchal and women are denied basic rights.


It's almost enough to make a man convert just so he can convert back! :)

I'm sure you can find someone to don the skirt and play conversion with you. :lol:

[Tanya]

buffy smuffy.. but the premiss is true.. I left Christianity BECAUSE i felt under-valued as a female.

[watersprite]

We left "the CHurch" to keep our children from being abused and defiled by it's priests. We left the church because we refuse to let some re-translator take over the lives and the lives of our children. We left the churches and synagogues and mosques because we are tired of being segregated during services and treated like servants and whores. Any more reasons out there?

[CzechWoods]

"Grr! Arrg!"

http://buffy3.free.fr/buffy/grr_arrgh.jpg


and i thought it said : GOOD ART

[SammieAnn]

I think I must lean to the devil side of my avatar because for some reason that article had me laughing so hard that I fell out of my chair. I never went to church growing up and was never a christian so I can not answer for how they treat women.

[SammieAnn]

Hey--was there anything hotter than the Evil Willow???...day-um!

No.
Spike was hot too.

[daphnerose]

Hmm I was more of a bedknobs n broomsticks kinda girl. Gee Angela Landesbury made me do it!! What would conventional christianity think of that?? :giggle:

[Dr. K]

All of them?

No not all Christians!!! I was just making an 'in general' kind of statement. Based a lot on my personal experience!

[lightdragon]

The scary truth? I was 5 when HBO adapted Jill Murphy's young adult novels "The Worst Witch" to a made for tv movie.

Fairuza Balk played "Mildred" - the worst witch - and the venerable Tim Curry as the "Grand Wizard" (be still my heart!)


How's that for influence? :bow:

I watched that on HBO as well. boy has Fairuza Balk changed.:hearthear:hearteyes:heybaby:

[BlackLili]

I watched that on HBO as well. boy has Fairuza Balk changed.:hearthear:hearteyes:heybaby:
More things change, the more they stay the same. I'd say the movie, (among other things) influenced little Fairuza enough anyway. She went from playing Worst Witch to Bitch Witch in "The Craft" - and last I heard, she had a cute little Pagan-y shop in Beverly Hills she likes to pop in and run from time to time.

Did you know her parents were Rennies (Ren-Faire folk for the uninitiated) in Europe and toddled her around with them while she was growing up? I would have died for an upbringing like that.

[Phoenix Blue]

More things change, the more they stay the same. I'd say the movie, (among other things) influenced little Fairuza enough anyway. She went from playing Worst Witch to Bitch Witch in "The Craft" - and last I heard, she had a cute little Pagan-y shop in Beverly Hills she likes to pop in and run from time to time.
According to IMDB, she sold it a few years back. Great minds must think alike, though, because I looked her up on a whim the other day.

[RainInanna]

buffy smuffy.. but the premiss is true.. I left Christianity BECAUSE i felt under-valued as a female.

Yes. I ranted about this on a goddess centered community I'm on, but basically that's what I said too. If you look past the title the article does have some useful points - like the idea that women are more interested in egalitarian spirituality. How these people are so batshit surprised that women GASP suddenly realized god could be a woman too and LIKED IT is beyond me. Imagine, women finally realizing there were other religions where they could be part of clergy, be valued as equal, and find god in themselves, suddenly not wanting to be in church anymore. Big f'n duh.

(see, it still makes me ranty)

[lightdragon]

More things change, the more they stay the same. I'd say the movie, (among other things) influenced little Fairuza enough anyway. She went from playing Worst Witch to Bitch Witch in "The Craft" - and last I heard, she had a cute little Pagan-y shop in Beverly Hills she likes to pop in and run from time to time.

Did you know her parents were Rennies (Ren-Faire folk for the uninitiated) in Europe and toddled her around with them while she was growing up? I would have died for an upbringing like that.

I have "the Craft" special edition. it's just commentary and two additional scenes.(story only, no sex scenes). The shop is PanPipes Magickal marketplace. She bought it around 95 or so. she sold half of it to one manager and the other to another one. so by 2003 she has nothing to do with it that i am aware of. I did buy some Lammas incense from them.

i knew they were traveled in Europe , didn't know about them being Rennies.But i thought her parents split.

[WitchJezebel]

Just wait until those witches in short plaid skirts ,
seduce those good christian boys...:bigredgri

Jezebels !

Yee Ha !


You called??? :lol:

[WitchJezebel]

I have "the Craft" special edition. it's just commentary and two additional scenes.(story only, no sex scenes). The shop is PanPipes Magickal marketplace. She bought it around 95 or so. she sold half of it to one manager and the other to another one. so by 2003 she has nothing to do with it that i am aware of. I did buy some Lammas incense from them.

i knew they were traveled in Europe , didn't know about them being Rennies.But i thought her parents split.

I lived a few blocks from Panpipes back then and I shopped there frequently.

[lightdragon]

I lived a few blocks from Panpipes back then and I shopped there frequently.
how was the incense back then if you bought incense from them. The one i just bought from the Lammas was all gummy. it had too much resin in it. it scent is strong even without lighting it.

[WitchJezebel]

how was the incense back then if you bought incense from them. The one i just bought from the Lammas was all gummy. it had too much resin in it. it scent is strong even without lighting it.

If I remember correctly I only had a problem with their incense once; the copal resin I bought didn't smell like copal at all when I burned it. I returned it and got a new batch and it was fine. I never ordered anything online since I was living closeby but now I either buy locally or order from a few sites that I trust.

[Lunacie]

Buffy who...?

I never watched Buffy, but I was aware of the show and all the followers of it.

I'm afraid I'll have to blame my Pagan leanings to reading my mom's college Greek mythologies when I was in grade school (about 50 years ago!). I guess there weren't a lot of girls being fascinated by the many forms of the Divine or leaving the church in droves back then. It took the Feminine Movement to kick start that.

I left the church when I was almost 40 but not because of feminist issues. And I didn't turn to Paganism because I had always been fascinated by mythology. A couple of months after leaving the church (and vowing that I didn't want any more religion in my life) I began practicing metaphysics and the Goddess appeared to me and spoke to me. After so many years of pleading for God to speak to me and He never did - without even asking, She not only spoke to me but also appeared to me.

[brymble]

It's sad though, that in their starvation for Goddess, many women who leave male-centered, monotheistic religions let the pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, and shut the God out altogether. Over-compensation doesn't bring wholeness, just more imbalance.

[lightdragon]

Buffy who...?

I never watched Buffy, but I was aware of the show and all the followers of it.

i watched it. I think i was already into paganism when it really it was really emphasising witchcraft,but to a limited extent. It would be more on the level of ceremonial magic.



If I remember correctly I only had a problem with their incense once; the copal resin I bought didn't smell like copal at all when I burned it. I returned it and got a new batch and it was fine. I never ordered anything online since I was living closeby but now I either buy locally or order from a few sites that I trust.
It seems OK. but I buy locally, at least i used to as most of the stores went out or became a pure online store. It came real fast though. it was mailed as priority but came the following day asthough it were federal express.

I'll order some Mabon incense from them just to make sure.it was an error as you said it was.

[RainInanna]

It's sad though, that in their starvation for Goddess, many women who leave male-centered, monotheistic religions let the pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, and shut the God out altogether. Over-compensation doesn't bring wholeness, just more imbalance.

Except when one's idea of wholeness and balance aren't defined by biological gender.

I don't think it's sad at all, provided people find what they need out of spirituality, regardless of whether it fits my idea of balance.

[CzechWoods]

Except when one's idea of wholeness and balance aren't defined by biological gender.

I don't think it's sad at all, provided people find what they need out of spirituality, regardless of whether it fits my idea of balance.

amen.

[FaeriPryncess]

brymble said:
It's sad though, that in their starvation for Goddess, many women who leave male-centered, monotheistic religions let the pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, and shut the God out altogether. Over-compensation doesn't bring wholeness, just more imbalance.
( Hmm, funny post. And people are responding. Well, I loved shows like Angel and Buffy, but I have been a monster-movie fan all my life, so no surprise. )
Brymble, when I officially entered the Craft in the late '80s/early '90s, it was even more like that, all Goddess-Goddess and so forth. And I love the God (Gods) and I can't imagine Circle without Him in some good pagan form. I feel we replaced (as a collective) the ideals of one monotheism for another.
Maybe, as their children, we can finally arrange for Mr. and Miss Divinity to go out together sometime, hehehe.

[brymble]

Maybe, as their children, we can finally arrange for Mr. and Miss Divinity to go out together sometime, hehehe.

What a cute idea!

I can see it all now: After deciding that maybe it really is worth it to stay together for the sake of the kids and tensely patching up their broken marriage, the formerly estranged Divines decide to take a much-needed second honeymoon. Their earthly children are delighted, for they want to see Mom and Dad back together, and are also looking forward to a fun summer free from parental oversight, partying with their friends, staying up late, fornicating, and worshipping graven images. After all, they think, we're practically grown-ups ourselves, with our big-kid organ transplants, artificial intelligence, and GMOs. We can handle things here on Earth on their own for one summer, right?

Unfortunately, Mom and Dad Divine have other plans, and spoil all their fun by hiring an Earthly representative of Their Holy Authority to supervise in Their absence. But no one plans on Their mortal surrogate succumbing to the some of the drawbacks of the position (specifically, mortality) and when the kids are left to fend for themselves without spoiling Mom and Dad's vacation, zaniness ensues:

Don't Tell The Gods The Heirophant Is Dead!

(Starring Haley Mills, Haley Mills, Christina Applegate, and Pope John Paul II)


Whatever they put in the mead at the feast must have been pretty damn good. I think I'm still halucinating...

[brymble]

Except when one's idea of wholeness and balance aren't defined by biological gender.



It's interesting that how some people define Goddess and God by biological gender.

[RainInanna]

It's interesting that how some people define Goddess and God by biological gender.


It's sad though, that in their starvation for Goddess, many women who leave male-centered, monotheistic religions let the pendulum swing to the opposite extreme, and shut the God out altogether.

I'm not sure how you can exclude gender when referring to "male-centered" and it's "extreme opposite"? Unless "male" means something entirely different than biological gender to you? Oh my, have I gotten confused on gender specific terms?

[brymble]

I'm not sure how you can exclude gender when referring to "male-centered" and it's "extreme opposite"? Unless "male" means something entirely different than biological gender to you? Oh my, have I gotten confused on gender specific terms?

Did I imply either "male-centered" or "opposite extreme" were either desirable or the only spiritual options available?

Is there a reason you're taking such a nasty tone just because I happen to disagree with your position, and personally feel that closing oneself off to any divine experience is sad?

[CzechWoods]

sometimes, that which we most dislike n others , is but a reflection of ourselves

nuff said

[~Elise~]

Be nice, folks! the replies are getting a bit 'snarky'

[RainInanna]

Ah ha, I found what was tweaking in the back of my mind:


The definitions of gender and gender identity vary on a doctrinal basis. In popularized and scientifically debased usage, sex is what you are biologically; gender is what you become socially; gender identity is your own sense or conviction of maleness or femaleness; and gender role is the cultural stereotype of what is masculine and feminine.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_of_gender

It's gender that is debated - with sex popularly referring to biology and gender to social constructs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender also has an interesting section on gender outside of biological terminology. Hm, something I'm going to keep in mind for another discussion.