The down side of spirit guides

[Sage Rainsong]

Ok so I came across this notion in a couple of my books; spirit guides can be detrimental to our spiritual development. I know that this may be an unpopular notion but I think that all opinions on spirituality are worth at least hearing out. The basic belief is that yes there are spirit guides and you can learn a lot from them but the most important guide is your own inner voice. The fear is that a person will get all of their psychic information solely from your guides thus leaving your own abilities underdeveloped. So what do you think? What are spirit guides to you?

[Philosophia]

For me, spirit guides are "beings" that can be classed as ghosts, bundles of isolated energy, etc.. They are merely guides that can be incredibly useful or a major pain in the ass, depending on what mood they are in or what guide there is. They can be human, animal, insect, bird, etc. but it's generally the message that is most important.

Spirit guides are probably as detrimental as all other things if incorrectly "used" (for lack of better word...hey, it's getting hot here and it's affecting my brain). Maybe this sounds too "new agey" but this is what I learnt about them.

[Sequoia]

Frankly, I think the concept of spirit guides, being so incredibly popular, is what is detrimental - rather than spirit guides themselves.

It seems like every teenager has an imaginary friend and calls it a spirit guide.

[Philosophia]

Frankly, I think the concept of spirit guides, being so incredibly popular, is what is detrimental - rather than spirit guides themselves.

I agree. :smile:

[RainInanna]

I consider spirit guides to be elements of our higher selves. In other words, I don't consider them separate at all.

[Xentor]

It seems like every teenager has an imaginary friend and calls it a spirit guide.

You mean it isn't? 8O

[Solya]

Spirit guides are, to me, souls we know well and souls we've asked to guide us and watch over us in this life. They can be useful and great to talk with, but they can also be very annoying and even, at times, secretive. I frequently chat with mine, but also take care of a lot of things myself.

It's my life and not theirs I'm living, which is something some people seem to forget. :) It's all right to talk with them and listen to them, but don't let that stop you from trying something stupid or from doing something other than what they advise you to do. They're not infallible, in my opinion, and often we need the lessons life has to offer without asking them for assistance. I feel the only detrimental thing concerning spirit guides is that people rely too much on them.

[Arinya]

You know, I've been a Pagan for years but...no spirit guides here. I've tried connecting with them a time or two but to no avail. I kind of just thought I didn't have any. Huh...

[BearDancing]

You know, I've been a Pagan for years but...no spirit guides here. I've tried connecting with them a time or two but to no avail. I kind of just thought I didn't have any. Huh...
I did not meet my first guide until I was 35....so hang in there when the time is right you will meet....what you are doing now is what you are supposed to be doing....:weirdsmilmost of my guides are animals...I have never had any guidance that was not of love....my guides play and have fun with me....yet there actual guidance is never anything but gentle and loving...

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think were any guide becomes a negative is when we begin to think any time we see them or think of them there is a message or lesson to be learnt from them.

For instance it took me a long time to realize that even though Herron is a guide for me and has taught me many things, that every time I see Herron does not mean something is to be learnt. I think that lesson was actually that things have a beauty and function of their own and some times we just need to look and not expect anything from it. That is not to say I don't find comfort and a little piece of mind at each sieghting, only that sometimes it's just a bird.

Yet, I have known people that would stop everything for they were positive that because they saw a guide it must mean something. I have read upon message boards where people have become so caught up in the need to find a spirit guide that it seems they actually missed the arrival of the guide as they sough to find the guide. In essence they were unaware of the tree's in the forest for they where to wrapped up on looking at the forest.

But then again I am not sure if it is a matter of the guide being disruptive to the spiritual pathway or the persception of the pathway creating the disruption because of how one views the guide.

[Jadewynd~]

Guides have always been there guiding us whether we knew they existed or not. If you tap into those guides and learn how to work with them in your life it just helps you further. Grant it there are other forces out there that can be bad for our spiritual development. That's why you need to listen to your feelings and know what you are doing when you call forth a guide.

To me part of a person's intution stems from your guides. We are not alone in our spiritual development. There are guides from all realms guiding us or testing us.

And, yes they are like friends or companions sometimes you just visit with them with no expectation or knowledge to be learn. Sometimes they seek you out through the physical realm or spiritual realm and vice versa. It's a relationship like any other relationship and should be respected.

[staticonthewire]

...spirit guides can be detrimental to our spiritual development ... a person will get all of their psychic information solely from your guides thus leaving your own abilities underdeveloped...

I got a similar tip from a very spiritual fella in the Vedic tradition. He said we were lucky to be living in the Kali Yuga, even though it's the roughest and most benighted of epochs, because our opportunities for spiritual advancement were multiplied under those circumstances.

On the other hand, his counsel sounds an awful lot like my Grandfather whenever he was telling me to muck out the horse stalls in his barn: "Adversity builds character, boy." :)

Maybe you should ask your spirit guide what they think about this?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

My Tradition is very specific...

Spirit Helpers...not spirit guides...

Spirit Helpers , I trust implicitly...not spirit guides...

However , as a Native Elder said to me...

"Tell them , every now and then , you need some chocolate"

Meaning , every now and then , we need a break...

Because they do not live in our space or time , nor do they
recognize human needs...

Spirit Helpers , to me , are Faery...from all realms...

Above , Middle , Below , worlds...

Do they guide ? Yes , they do...

Should discrimination be a wise key ?

Always...:thumbsup:

[BearDancing]

My Tradition is very specific...

Spirit Helpers...not spirit guides...

Spirit Helpers , I trust implicitly...not spirit guides...

However , as a Native Elder said to me...

"Tell them , every now and then , you need some chocolate"

Meaning , every now and then , we need a break...

Because they do not live in our space or time , nor do they
recognize human needs...

Spirit Helpers , to me , are Faery...from all realms...

Above , Middle , Below , worlds...

Do they guide ? Yes , they do...

Should discrimination be a wise key ?

Always...:thumbsup:

So what does this mean?..... what is the difference between spirit helper or spirit guide? Why would you trust one and not the other?

[Cobalt]

For me a spirit guide is a personification of an animal or other living creature (which actually opens up the possibility of plant guides for the same reason it presents faeries, now that I think about it) that speaks both to my limitations and my strengths. That way I have something to uplift me and something to teach me what I still need to compensate for. They're necessarily archetypical, or they wouldn't show up in a specific form. So a cat will be what you feel a cat must essentially be, a wolf will represent a certain idea of a wolf, etc.

I think that spirit guides are just fine if you have one, and just fine if you don't. It's my personal opinion that everybody has one, but since spending all your time searching for a spirit guide can actually hold you back (as was mentioned earlier), I think it's best to get comfortable with the idea of not having one.

The difficulty comes when people feel pressured to have certain guides. This is not to say that everyone with a wolf, dragon, unicorn, or faerie guide is simply picking what seems "cool" at the time, since obviously those guides speaking to someone. But I can't help but notice how many people pick based on what they wish they were instead of what they are. At that rate, those people may be gaining a quick self-esteem boost ("Hey, I'm totally hardcore like a dragon!") at the expense of an opportunity for deeper self-examination.

Here's a follow-up question, if a bit of a tangent. Why do you think so many people have predator animals as spirit guides and so few have prey? Since I believe that all animals have something to teach, I am surprised there aren't more people learning from species that must survive being hunted in addition to the species that survive by hunting.

[BearDancing]

I am not so sure why or what you are asking...having a bear as a spirit guide...being a predator...the gifts that I have recieved from the bear are far from predator like...learning to go inside for answers, actually a lot of love and fun with my spirit guide...a compansiionship that was incredible and it may explain why I am sooo defensive about my children...the bear was with me from childhood..yet I did not understand at the time...my mom told me a few times I would run into their bed saying a bear had come through my window....it was not until I was 35 that I was aware of our connection...I do not believe that we pick the guide....I have prayed to certain animals...birds to help me with qualities I am looking to develop in my life...say ant...to help me in learning patience...but I did not consider the ant a spirit guide...I called the spirit of the ant so the ant chose to help me with the quality that it had to share...for me I have a deep relationship with my guides....and when I need help learning a lesson I call the specific animal/bird/reptile that has the qualities that I am trying to learn...

[Cobalt]

I'm not questioning the validity of your relationship to your guide. I'm wondering why predators seem to show up so much more often than prey. How many people with a mouse guide have you met? Or fish for that matter? Have you ever met anyone who claimed that the spirit of the large mouthed bass had changed their lives? I haven't. But I've met lots and lots of people who have a great space in their hearts for a predator.

It seems like the animals viewed as powerful or intimidating are the ones that show up most often. This either says a lot about the way people view their spirit guides, or a lot about the needs that the humans in these cases have in common.

Prey animals can be very powerful creatures. The ability to camouflage oneself, to run from what is dangerous, to freeze and avoid notice, to avoid being wiped out no matter how many times predators strike, to seek refuge in a pack rather than seeking prey. Yet I've noticed that many people have closer relationships with animals that can hunt down other animals, that defend themselves through combat.

Is this because humans are in a position in the food web where we prey on animals but are preyed upon by few in return? Is this why predators seem to resonate with us so well? Or is it because people with animal guides have similar needs for the power of a predator rather than the strength of prey?

I think there is a serious downside in having a spirit guide if the bond is forged for the wrong reasons. Either there is a more pervasive need among humans for the guidance of predators, or there are people who are identifying themselves with animals because they seem like "the cool ones."

I've seen cases of both (humans who really seriously need to get in touch with the lessons of predators, and some who just want a "cool" totem), but I was wondering if anybody else had any opinions about what seems to me to be a trend: lots of predators, fewer prey. Why?

To bring it back on topic, I think there's a huge downside in neglecting what prey animals have to teach. I think, given the way that humans tend to exploit the world for our own gain, that our overabundance of predator behavior can be a problem. Humans already know how to hunt and kill and devour and defend. Depending on your perspective it's all we seem to know. But don't humans also need to remember how to be invisible, to flee without trace, to call upon the strength to endure predators around us without becoming one?

And, lest anyone come at me accusing me of thinking less of predator guides for some reason or another, let me try and head that off. If anybody thinks I'm devaluing predator guides because I don't have one and that makes them somehow less, you're wrong. And if anybody thinks that I do have a predator guide and that I'm assuming I'm the only one who should, you're also wrong. Magpies eat garbage. Well, whatever can fit into their mouths, really. Hardly the most glamorous of guides, but not exactly prey either.

So the more important question (as opposed to the question of which guide I heed) is why there are so many predators out there, and so few prey. Why is that? And what downside does that carry?

[Willow Rosette]

Cobalt my guide is a Crane.....

[Cobalt]

Oh, I'm not saying there aren't people with prey guides. I'm saying there are lots and lots of predators. I'm not demanding that people prove to me there are prey guides out there. I'm asking why they seem under-represented compared to wolves and eagles and big cats and things.

[Willow Rosette]

Maybe for the most part people need to learn strength and determination and things that a pray animal represents.

For me I needed wisdom and inner peace and she shows me where that is already inside of me.

[BearDancing]

The part I am not understanding is what is the difference between predator and prey......each animal has its own gifts to share with whom they choose to share it with..Humans already know how to hunt and kill and devour and defend..IMO Pretator animals are not sharing gifts of hunting, killilng, devour and defend through fighting..a physical bear is actually very gentle and solitary unless defending their cubs..they eat many berries and grubs and stuff...very rarely kill a huge animal....I beleive a hummingbird is as special as an eagle..(actually I feel the hummingbird is more special but that is my opinion) it is the INDIVIDUAL gifts the animals share not whether they are preditor or prey...you make it sound that the predator animals are all about, hunting, killling , devour and defend...all animals hunt, kill, devour and defend....predator or prey...

I do agree with one of your opinions...there are many who say they have a spirit guide yet are just trying to "be cool" and IMO yes these people choose a more powerful animal/bird that is higher on the food chain...possibly because they feel the gifts of these animals are powerful....yet if they had a REAL relationship with the said animal/bird they would soon find out that the gifts these animal shares has nothing to do with their hierarchy on the food chain....Eagle is bringing you closer to Spirit, helps with different healilng techniques etc....wolf teaches the qualitites of living in a communitiy, sharing of resposiblities, and the need for order....not how to rip another animals throat out....

I do want to discuss this with you I am just finding you a bit confusing...I am not being rude...just encouraging to share in a different way that I might understand better....I have a feeling you are "really" talking about people who really have "no" relationship with said animals/birds and are professing that they are indeed....and it is these people who are picking what they feel are the "powerful..cool" animals....I beleive that most people have a mixture of preditor and prey guides...some may have more preditor and some may have more prey...according to the individual..."I am talking about people that have a true relationship with animals/birds"

[Cobalt]

I'm partly talking about them, yes. But I also raised another issue that I feel is important to consider.

If we look at spirit guides as animals we can learn from, does humanity really need more predatory energy? I think we've got the whole "top of the food chain" schtick down pat, whereas many of the skills of prey animals seem to be in scarce supply.

And as another issue with predator guides, I think we can't discount their way of hunting. Reducing wolves down to companionable team players who aren't perfectly capable of tearing the throats out of their prey (and even rival wolves) really takes away a lot of what makes a wolf a wolf: the way they survive. It takes away their teeth, their claws, their instinct to survive. And without that, what are they? Really big dogs.

To use my magpie as an example, it's important to me that they're basically scavenger-predator-omnivores-biteitandhopeit'sgood types. Their feeding habits represent adapability, a willingness and ability to make the most of whatever comes their way. An animal's life centers prominently around getting, defending, or lacking food.

This is why, despite the fact that there are certainly other lessons than predation to be taken from predator animals, it's still an important part of what makes that animal spirit who it is. I think that there is savagery in a predator as fitting their place in the life cycle, and that this makes them very different in many cases from prey.

Even from the perspective that people do not choose their guides but are instead chosen by them (a view I'm not entirely on board with, since to me that's like saying we don't choose our lovers but are chosen by them), what does it say about us that humans and predators seem so drawn to one another?

And as a final note, I don't think you're being rude at all. I appreciate you taking my questions head on and really replying to them.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think one thing that is being overlooked inregards to predators is that a predator teaches us to take only that which we require to live. With the exception of the wolverine I can not think of any preditor that kills just to kill and leave the carcus to rot. The wolverine will not only kill just to kill but will soil the carcus to ensure no other animal will eat it. Yes, I left man out on purpose, for I think we are the only predator that kills and may get enjoyment from it.


If one looks at it from a survival concept then it's a lesson that man need's to learn badly. Yet it seems that is a major lesson that is missed when looking at the power of the predator.

[Caitlin.ann]

Would a totem animal be classed as a spirit guide?

[Cobalt]

Personally I conflate the two, but I think there are people who differentiate. Hopefully one of them can post and tell you the difference, because I don't actually know it, either.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

To me, a totem is not given to an individual but is a sign / creature / item given to a group. The group being either a family grouping or a tribal grouping and of importance to the group as a whole.

As such I do not think they would fall into the concept of Spirit Guides or Spirit Animals. While they as a whole may teach something, for instance the White Buffalo for Nativer American's. Specifically the Sioux, in reference to the teachings of White Buffalo Calf Woman Comes Dancing and the birth of a White Buffalo.

The buffalo becomes an intergral part of their lore, specifically the sacred bundle and the keeper of the bundle's place within thier social structure.

[Cobalt]

MonSno_LeeDra: Aha! I am informed. Thanks!

[BearDancing]

And as another issue with predator guides, I think we can't discount their way of hunting. Reducing wolves down to companionable team players who aren't perfectly capable of tearing the throats out of their prey (and even rival wolves) really takes away a lot of what makes a wolf a wolf: the way they survive. It takes away their teeth, their claws, their instinct to survive. And without that, what are they? Really big dogs.

The "gift" the animal has to share with humans in many cases is different than just their physical presence...the wolf is not a spirit guide of mine so I can only speculate on the qualities that that partictular animal shares...I can guarantee you that riping anothers throat out is not one of the "gifts it shares"
I have walked with the bear for 17 years and I have a very close realtionship with my bear spirit...none of my guidance has been about their capability to take down an elk with one swipe of their paw....how huge their teeth are and how they could ripe and tear me apart....."People" say that you should look at the habits of an animal when trying to learn spiritualy from them....I have never done that and I have had incredible spiritual experiences with different animals/birds.....I guess the big difference is "spiritual gifts" are shared....that have very little to do with preditor or prey physical characteristics of a certain animal....The spirit of the skunk took me on a journey in the depths of the ocean.....and a badger took me on a journey deep into mother earth....while I was in both places I received spiritual imformation that pertained to me...."where I was on my path"

This is why, despite the fact that there are certainly other lessons than predation to be taken from predator animals, it's still an important part of what makes that animal spirit who it is. I think that there is savagery in a predator as fitting their place in the life cycle, and that this makes them very different in many cases from prey.

In my experience I have not felt the "savagery" that you speak of in the predator guides I have experience with....and come to think of it I have not experienced any "lessons of preditation at all"...I guess the difference in my experiences with the different animals is what is the reason I am unable to see this "predator" quality that you say is being shared by a spirit guides...

[Morgaine_cla]

Greetings,

Re: Predator guides, I would add that not all of us need the same lessons. Our Guides are there to help us learn what is needful for us, so I wouldn't expect us all to receive the same lessons.

My approach to guides is the same as my approach to people: I don't expect all Italians to act the same just because they are Italians, nor do I expect all wolves to act the same merely because they are wolves. Guides, like people, are individuals and are called to work with us based on affinities that serve both us and them. At least, that's the way I see it.

I found the comment about totems belonging to groups of great interest, and I think it makes an excellent point. Animal spirits are associated with the collective spirits of specific groups, but how many people explore this possibility when an animal spirit comes to them? Yes, it may be a personal guide -- but it might not. It might be bearing a very different kind of message and/or invitation...

We work with this idea quite a lot on my Druid path, but I've seldom heard it explored elsewhere, and I think its relationship to the idea of "power animals" has been largely overlooked.

Thank you for sharing!

Be well and be blessed--

[Shawn Blackwolf]

As the linguistic wolf said : "My , what big letters you have" !

[Teresa]

Greetings,

Re: Predator guides, I would add that not all of us need the same lessons. Our Guides are there to help us learn what is needful for us, so I wouldn't expect us all to receive the same lessons.

My approach to guides is the same as my approach to people: I don't expect all Italians to act the same just because they are Italians, nor do I expect all wolves to act the same merely because they are wolves. Guides, like people, are individuals and are called to work with us based on affinities that serve both us and them. At least, that's the way I see it.

I found the comment about totems belonging to groups of great interest, and I think it makes an excellent point. Animal spirits are associated with the collective spirits of specific groups, but how many people explore this possibility when an animal spirit comes to them? Yes, it may be a personal guide -- but it might not. It might be bearing a very different kind of message and/or invitation...



QFT!

I take the same approach. Perhaps because I also work with Spirits and I'm aware that they are like living people, not all are helpful or friendly that I came to the conclusion. My dealing with the spirit realm began at a tender age and I am thankful that my Grandmother guided me on how to deal and work with spirits.

[Glowingsun]

I thought that was just an invention of Sylvia Brown's

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Do you mean Spirit Guides ?

If so...ummm...No...they have been known about , and
worked with , by many cultures , throughout time...



I thought that was just an invention of Sylvia Brown's

[Lunacie]

Ok so I came across this notion in a couple of my books; spirit guides can be detrimental to our spiritual development. I know that this may be an unpopular notion but I think that all opinions on spirituality are worth at least hearing out. The basic belief is that yes there are spirit guides and you can learn a lot from them but the most important guide is your own inner voice. The fear is that a person will get all of their psychic information solely from your guides thus leaving your own abilities underdeveloped. So what do you think? What are spirit guides to you?

Hm, I missed this thread back in the fall, and although it has taken an interesting turn I thought I might address the concern expressed by Sage in her OP.

This concern that one may come to depend too much on advice from a spirit guide, rather than learning to trust one's own instincts and depend on one's own logic seems very similar to the concern I've heard about people who become too dependent on Tarot and become fearful to do anything unless they check the Tarot for advice first.

I think any Augury such as a spirit guide or tarot cards is best asked for advice sparingly. And spirit guides in particular should not be petitioned for advice often if ever, just keep our awareness open for any message they may have for us to come through when it is truly needed or timely.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Agreed...:uhhuhuh:



just keep our awareness open for any message they may have for us to come through when it is truly needed or timely.

[Æon Flux]

Ok so I came across this notion in a couple of my books; spirit guides can be detrimental to our spiritual development. I know that this may be an unpopular notion but I think that all opinions on spirituality are worth at least hearing out. The basic belief is that yes there are spirit guides and you can learn a lot from them but the most important guide is your own inner voice. The fear is that a person will get all of their psychic information solely from your guides thus leaving your own abilities underdeveloped. So what do you think? What are spirit guides to you?

1. People who rely on supernatural things more then 50% is going to wake up one day and realize they've been doing themselves a disfavor.
2. Spirit guides are GUIDES... Not the one true voice. They are there to GUIDE you.

If you don't have your own inner voice to trust to begin with... how the heck are you going to be able to find your spirit guide? Seriously!?

To me my spirit guides are just spirit guides. Offering me friendly advice, nothing more, nothing less... and I take these as my spirit guides because I have spent YEARS developing my ability to HEAR my inner voice who can now tell me that these are in fact GUIDES and not my own inner demons.

Just my opinion....