How to teach?

[HetHert]

This has bugged me ever since I started down the path and even more so now that I'm a priestess who has acknowledged and accepted the call. My biggest fear is teaching. Gaining students terrifies me and excites me. Not in the sense that I would back down from it but in the sense that I have no idea how to teach. Organizing thoughts so others find them coherant and building a game plan and executing it...these things are not an inherant part of my abilities. Oh sure I know in my head and heart how things work and how to get things done, but it's completely different when you put it out there for others to take to heart.

What are some ways that you started off teaching? How did you begin as a teacher? Was it easy or difficult for you to do? If not, how long did it take to get comfortable? What are some suggestions you would give to new teachers? What are some of the difficulties in teaching and students? Come on teachers share your ups and downs and tricks of the doing.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Now...this sort of brings in that other thread we were together in ,
my friend...

Since I speak with people regularly , about what I do , who I am , and what I know , and teach , it is all one natural flow...

Nothing special , or seperate...just people , wanting to know , and learn...:uhhuhuh:

And , I always am willing , and do...learn from them...:thumbsup:

[Modesty]

Personally, I started teaching because there was a need for it. More people were wanting to know about the occult. Sure it's quite difficult in the beginning but that's how anything is when you start new. To get comfortable with your students, play a game with them. Ask them to teach you something. Watch how they react and show or explain what they are trying to teach. Go from there. It's easier than you think.

The only real difficulty I have ran across are from those that don't dedicate themselves to learning.

[HetHert]

Now...this sort of brings in that other thread we were together in ,
my friend...

Since I speak with people regularly , about what I do , who I am , and what I know , and teach , it is all one natural flow...

Nothing special , or seperate...just people , wanting to know , and learn...:uhhuhuh:

And , I always am willing , and do...learn from them...:thumbsup:

Yeah, this is a bit of a hold over from the other thread. hehehe I've been dealing with this anxiety about teaching for a while and I've been pretty good at avoiding it but as with all things avoidance only works for so long before your just avoiding the inevitable. See? It sounds so dreadful as I talk about it.

Any formal lessons? When someone comes to you, where do you start with teaching? How do you go about assessing the level of another person? Do you mold what you teach to each student individually or take a lesson plan and go from that? I'm curious what methods people use to pass along their information.

I'm not nearly as open or free speaking about myself so I have some challenges in that arena. What ways helped you become so confident in what you speak about?



Hi Modesty...I like your username. :)


Personally, I started teaching because there was a need for it. More people were wanting to know about the occult. Sure it's quite difficult in the beginning but that's how anything is when you start new. To get comfortable with your students, play a game with them. Ask them to teach you something. Watch how they react and show or explain what they are trying to teach. Go from there. It's easier than you think.

The only real difficulty I have ran across are from those that don't dedicate themselves to learning.

That's a good idea with the game and getting them to teach is a very revealing strategy for understanding a person. Pretty ingenius.

Your name strikes me funny, not haha more of a synchronicity, because that's how I feel mostly about the occult. I'm very modest about it. Sometimes the modesty makes it confusing for me to speak so speaking about it gets weird. Maybe I need a public speaking course.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Yeah, this is a bit of a hold over from the other thread. hehehe I've been dealing with this anxiety about teaching for a while and I've been pretty good at avoiding it but as with all things avoidance only works for so long before your just avoiding the inevitable. See? It sounds so dreadful as I talk about it.


ROTFLMAO...sorry...:bigredgri...It is not that bad...three breaths in through nose...out through mouth...very good...relax...:uhhuhuh:


[/quote]
Any formal lessons? When someone comes to you, where do you start with teaching? How do you go about assessing the level of another person? Do you mold what you teach to each student individually or take a lesson plan and go from that? I'm curious what methods people use to pass along their information.
[/quote]


Just taught in Fairfax , Ca...before that , a one day talk , and
chanting concert at night , at Harbin Hot Springs...many classes
in Eugene , Oregon...of all places , the now closed Foolscap Books...

Santa Cruz...public event , weekly public classes , private classes...

Mendocino...private classes...

Many private classes...on living room floor , or sitting on couch...

Make tea , coffee , cook dinner during weekend intensive , with
private student(s)...no pretension...ME...just me...

Assessing students ? Talk with them , ask them about themselves ,
while telling them who I am...my loves , dislikes , great moments ,
and stories of my assholiness...just as holy...just not as nice...

And listen to them , and what they say , what they know , what
they want to learn...big class ?

Different...but I engage them , before we start...tell a story , make
them laugh , watch each one for what turns them on...ask them
questions , draw them in...it is natural theatre...life...

And yes...a VERY flexible general lesson plan...has to be...students
always have questions...even when I ask them to save them...LOL...


[/quote]
I'm not nearly as open or free speaking about myself so I have some challenges in that arena. What ways helped you become so confident in what you speak about?
[/quote]


Well...

Let me post a link for you...enjoy my tale...:bigredgri

Best to you...You CAN do it...and WILL...:uhhuhuh:
I believe you shall do great !

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=167731

[Astara Seague]

for me it came from a need, I didnt want to be a teacher, not really, I had many of the misgivings that you do, but so many were coming to me, and asking questions, it was like they were hungry and I had the food, so I decided I would give it a try

I am very particular who I teach, I ask them questions about their reasoning and what they hope to accomplish, and what they want to learn about and I have age limits as well..

if the interview goes well I will teach them, I teach in a group at first starting with the very basics on up

I test them to check their progress regularly .....by doing this it gives me the information I need to see who is really serious about the craft and who is not or just isnt ready yet,
then from this group later I hand pick ones that I will give more one on one time with with more focused subject matter and hands on experiance at my side,
if I have enough of those I start an advanced group, but this seldom happens
people learn at different rates and many after they see all the work that really goes into being a "real witch" many are just to lazy to go forth

[~Elise~]

for me it came from a need, I didnt want to be a teacher, not really, I had many of the misgivings that you do, but so many were coming to me, and asking questions, it was like they were hungry and I had the food, so I decided I would give it a try

I am very particular who I teach, I ask them questions about their reasoning and what they hope to accomplish, and what they want to learn about and I have age limits as well..

if the interview goes well I will teach them, I teach in a group at first starting with the very basics on up

I test them to check their progress regularly .....by doing this it gives me the information I need to see who is really serious about the craft and who is not or just isnt ready yet,
then from this group later I hand pick ones that I will give more one on one time with with more focused subject matter and hands on experiance at my side,
if I have enough of those I start an advanced group, but this seldom happens
people learn at different rates and many after they see all the work that really goes into being a "real witch" many are just to lazy to go forth
Truer words were never spoken...I run a year and day class and didn't do one last year. Frankly I wanted the break and there weren't that many interested.
Finally--started one at the end of Oct with 6 students. I'm already down to only two. I tell them upfront...this takes time...this takes committment. I lose 1/2 to 3/4 of the students every year...never this soon though.

as to the process of teaching...for me, it's like talking to them, but I have an agenda. Over the years, I've developed a schedule and plans. But, even that is flexible.

For me the first rule is Know Thyself...so the first couple of months are dedicated to just that...them working on them. Amazing how easy it sounds and how difficult it is.

Elise

[Modesty]

Thank you. :o)

Speaking to others about something you know is not always easy. Trust me, speech in college didn't help at all. heh heh. I clam up sometimes and people sit there wondering what egg I hatched from. Sometimes I get embarassed and turn the brightest shade of red you can imagine (or maybe its just hot flashes) who knows.

I'd say it is quite normal for that sort of thing though. I've learned to kind of change the subject when I know I'm drowning and throw in some casual funny ha's ha's to divert their attention from the fact I am making an ass of myself. But all in all when speaking to others, think quickly, speak slowly, and pause frequently when your brain needs to scramble for a word when you are at a loss for the right word.


Yeah, this is a bit of a hold over from the other thread. hehehe I've been dealing with this anxiety about teaching for a while and I've been pretty good at avoiding it but as with all things avoidance only works for so long before your just avoiding the inevitable. See? It sounds so dreadful as I talk about it.

Any formal lessons? When someone comes to you, where do you start with teaching? How do you go about assessing the level of another person? Do you mold what you teach to each student individually or take a lesson plan and go from that? I'm curious what methods people use to pass along their information.

I'm not nearly as open or free speaking about myself so I have some challenges in that arena. What ways helped you become so confident in what you speak about?



Hi Modesty...I like your username. :)



That's a good idea with the game and getting them to teach is a very revealing strategy for understanding a person. Pretty ingenius.

Your name strikes me funny, not haha more of a synchronicity, because that's how I feel mostly about the occult. I'm very modest about it. Sometimes the modesty makes it confusing for me to speak so speaking about it gets weird. Maybe I need a public speaking course.

[Modesty]

well that was meant to be a happy face lol

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I find for me that the first lesson I had to really accept was that I was the teacher and had to stick to my script on things. Let me explain.

Many people I spoke to seem to think that you should have a script but it should also be flexable so you can change it in a heartbeat. Yet I find that to be a fatel error actually.

Though your incoming student may or may not have any previous knowledge and experince, you as the teacher must define what each item means and is to be used within the scope of YOUR works. Once that has been presented then a discussion may occur to modify the meaning but only after you have laid that foundation.

Yes some may say I already know this or that but in truth they only know what their understanding of said thing is not the manner YOU intend to use or define it under.

This is not to say an area can not be glossed over if your defination and the existing defination match. However, it also needs to be realized that one can never really have to much instruction and training.

For me I would reccomend you develope an outline of what you think needs to be taught and the sequence of teaching. Don't try to fill it in at this point just topic headers and maybe brief description if wanted.

Check and recheck your thoughts and order of presentation. Then take each section and start to fill in the informaiton points you wish to present and or explore. This will also allow you to re-examine your topic format to see what was missed or overlooked in sequence.

For practice take something simple that should be easy to do and then write an exercise for doing it and outline the procedures to do it. For example take something like taking an ink pen apart. Then examaine the actions needed to perform the process.

1. Grasp the pen with the thumb an pointer finger of both hands. Place one set of fingers upon the lower portion of the pen case and the other upon the upper portion of the pen case.

2. Holding the pen firmly with the left hand, proceded to turn the top portion of the pen counter-clockwise until the top seperates from the bottom.

3. Remove the unscrewed upper portion from the tube. Be sure to watch for the spring that is wrapped about the inner porition of the pen as this componet may come apart as the cap is removed.

4. With the left hand place the bottom section of the ink pen upon the table.

ok you get the idea.

I wouldn't worry to much though, each time it is done it not only gets easier but you find you refine your script to include short cuts, sequence changes and change of understanding.

Sorry if this seems a little to basic or deemening in presentation. I hope it helps or gives you some ideas.

[Rick]

How to teach?

Wanna know the best way? Open your mouth, and start talkin'... class outlines and all that jazz is nothin' but details...

[lavenderdawn]

I do a bit of both methods. I write an outline for the things I think are important to cover, prioritize them and then refer to it as I'm talking.

I keep an ear open to be guided by my inner knowing and ask a lot of questions about their view of magic, Deity, ethics etc. I also listen, a lot. I had to learn to pause and either ask a direct question or let them interject about every three minutes or so. I do not start talking again until they run down completely or they become a tad bit fidgety in the silence. You'd be surprised how important this is, most people do not truly listen, teachers hardly ever do.

Good Fortune on your journey.

[HetHert]

well that was meant to be a happy face lol

I read it that way so no worries. If you look at the bottom of your original post there is an edit button. So next time you want to correct a mistake you can edit it.

Thanks for the tips. I will try to remember them when I'm sitting in the middle of a discussion and trying to get my words out strait. :weirdsmil

Astara and Elise: Thank you thank you for your insights! I've seen a couple teachers get thoroughly discouraged by new students who fall away. I suppose that is part and parcel of the gig.

Can either of you describe the stumbling blocks you've encountered? And what was it like with some of your first students compared to later students?

MonSno: Those are actually really good points for me to explore. Organizing might actually help me feel more comfortable with the process. Having an outline would, at the very least, keep me anchored and focused. Having specific points to talk about will help me from forgetting. This is one flaw I have when trying to discuss certain aspects, forgetting important pieces to the equation. I catch myself doing this from time to time.

Rick: Cowabunga!!! I get it. Just jump in. You make me :smile:. I need the details...they keep me distracted. :kooky:

I really appreciate everyone's input and insights...it makes facing this aspect not seem nearly as bad as the monster I've created it to be.

[~Elise~]

You can NOT take things personally. It usually has nothing to do with you. That is something I've learned over the years.

As for first students compared to now... I'm more organized in what I teach and more structured. I think some of the first students missed stuff that I would consider basic now...but it was then and this is now...

Elise

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I can't speak for others but between the 9 years I taught in the Navy in formal schools and the various students I've worked with over the years I can say having an outline and stuff has helped me avoid that most deaded of all fates from my perspective...

The Foot in Mouth when you find you miss spoke or had to try and unlearn a student from something you spoke out loud without really thinking about it before hand.

I think we tend to forget that many times first heard is first learnt.

[Astara Seague]

You can NOT take things personally. It usually has nothing to do with you. That is something I've learned over the years.

As for first students compared to now... I'm more organized in what I teach and more structured. I think some of the first students missed stuff that I would consider basic now...but it was then and this is now...

Elise

:thumbsup:yes me too:uhhuhuh:
other stumbling blocks {with the students that is} are those who want to be a witch so they can be all powerful with no work, _wiz_ those who are more into the showcasing then the magic,
those who think a certain book/author is "The one and only Bible" of witchcraft:reading:
the ones who use me for thier confessor:hahugh:

the others who are in it for the sexual aspect {AE: I only celebrate Beltane:goodgrief}

there is alot more... but as with anything else
anything worth having is alot of work, if you want to be a teacher, you will pay the price one way or another, it is all trial and error but the benfits are very nice especilly when you really are able to reach and help out someone even if it is only one

Oh and I have to so agree with Elise:uhhuhuh:
NEVER TAKE ANYTHING OR ANYONE TOO PERSONAL!

[~Elise~]

Yeah...don't let them too close. I've been bitten more than once with that one. And it hurts more each time. (guess that's going from the clue-by-four to the frying pan to the brick walls)

Elise

[ffetcher]

Okay, I'll bite (but only because you asked so nicely :) )

I first taught because there didn't seem to be anyone else. I found it extremely difficult, so I felt bad because I knew I could do this stuff in a professional context. Eventually, an older friend gave me a piece of advice that's stayed with me: "If you can do this in a professional role, you've got the unique opportunity to learn in a non-threatening context, and then come home and do it with your students."

Once I realised that virtually everyone, even those with vastly more experience, sometimes have problems, it didn't exactly get easier, but at least I didn't angst about it so much. I once asked someone "when do you stop being anxious?" to which she replied "When I find out, I'll stop doing it."

blessings
ffetcher

[Darth Brooks]

All good teachers need a syllabus. A syllabus will help to outline where you are and where you are going, as far as where your student's education is going.

All good students do their homework and complete it to the best of their knowledge, handing it in promptly. Yes, homework is a bitch and nobody likes it, but if you're trying to teach someone something then they're going to need some kind of assignment to do on their own when you're not around.

Field trips are also a plus, because for one thing it gives you a chance to expose your student to something they might not typically expose themselves to, and for another it can be really fun and engaging for the student. When we first formed our coven we went on a field trip to a museum, and the Egyptian exhibits were particularly helpful.

And no curriculum would be complete without quizzes, pop quizzes, and tests. A good student needs to be tested, to make sure they are actually absorbing the information they are supposed to be absorbing, and that they aren't just fooling around.

[Jenett]

What are some ways that you started off teaching? How did you begin as a teacher? Was it easy or difficult for you to do? If not, how long did it take to get comfortable? What are some suggestions you would give to new teachers? What are some of the difficulties in teaching and students? Come on teachers share your ups and downs and tricks of the doing.

Finally got a chance to respond!

How did I start? The group I trained with is a teaching group, and it's expected that people who stick around will help with the group in some way, and that often means some kind of teaching.

I started by teaching the short series of Seeker/intro classes the group runs - these use standard notes that everyone who teaches them uses, so the classes are consistent. Basically, you read off the notes, and then answer whatever questions come up (which are mostly pretty common ones, because it's fairly basic material - an overview of Wicca and witchcraft, an intro to ethics, etiquette, basic ritual theory (different steps and some general "why is this done" stuff, a discussion of deity and other entities, and some discussion of developing a personal practice.)

I did that for over four years, and after my 2nd degree, also spent a year teaching a round of our dedicant/year and a day students (much more in depth classes, again, with standard stuff we covered), and occasionally helping with class materials for more advanced students.

So, lots of practice with a good solid training net. Now, I've hived, formed a new coven (which is less focused on teaching) and am working on developing a training approach that will work for that. More on that in a sec.

I really enjoy teaching - I'm a librarian by profession, which is more about one-off presentations or one-on-one instruction than regular classes, but I've done a few of those in various areas over time, too. My father was a university professor, so I've always seen teaching as a thing that ordinary human beings do, and do in a number of different ways, and that many of them work - but that not every approach will work for every teacher, or every topic, or every student, and that a good teacher can be flexible without degrading the content of the course by making it too easy or leaving important stuff out.

Suggestions:
I work in a high school, so I get to discuss teaching theory with bunches of really smart and highly skilled teachers. This means I've picked up useful things.

1) People have different learning modes. Spending some time up front to figure out which ones your students have can help a lot. If someone is a kinesthetic learner, they might do better with hands-on examples (or, alternately, with something they can manipulate with their hands while they're thinking, like a small toy/silly putty/playdoh/etc.) If someone is an audio learner, you want to make sure you're not just giving them all the information in pre-class reading, but that you also discuss it with them.

Most people in our society are visual, (it's roughly 60% visual learners, 25% kinesthetic, and 15% audio learners, if I remember right.) This means you might want to include sketches, diagrams, and other visual information in your handouts or have them draw things out (like drawing what goes where on the altar, or the process of setting up circle or whatever.)

2) When designing an overall course of study, a really good way to go about it is to decide what you want your student to know at the end of the process, and then work backwards. Logical, right?

We're doing this with the new coven. I came up with a short list of what I want a potential initiate (i.e. at the end of year and a day training) to be able to do and to know. I then broke it down further, and then came up with a set of topics. Each topic is now in the process of having before class reading/assignments, specific things to be discussed during the class, and exercises to do together (and then practice on their own.)

For example, one of my requirements is that people can participate in group ritual, and also do ritual for themselves.

Breaking this down, it means they need to have some skills (centering, grounding, managing energy in ritual), some specific knowledge (how our circle is set up, what steps are involved, how to participate in supporting the circle set-up, and in ritual in general) and some personal work (figuring out what they want to do for personal ritual.) It's got some obvious assignments (design a ritual for yourself from start to finish) and some obvious discussions (what makes a good ritual, how to behave if they go to another group's rituals). And many of these topics have additional breakdowns - for example, we teach centering and grounding early on, but the actual "details of designing ritual" is one of the last classes.

I'm designing the actual classes with a rough chronology, but most of the individual segments can be moved around to some extent. I've also taken care to balance hands-on stuff with more brain-centered 'learning' pieces, both within each individual likely class session, and within any given couple of months of likely work.

3) Like others said, expect attrition.
The rough guideline I've been told (and seen myself) is that you should expect to lose at least 8 out of 10 in the very early stages, and at least 1 out of 2 after someone's made a commitment to a particular group.

In other words, if 1000 people look at your website/general info that says "Hi, open to teaching" (who are at all feasible - i.e. right location, etc.), expect maybe 100 to send you an email of curiousity. Of those 100, expect 10 people who might show up at a personal meeting. If you're lucky, 2-5 of those might be serious candidates (both in terms of being committed to starting the process, and in terms of being a potential fit for you.)

You can adjust these numbers slightly by filtering carefully in your initial material - for example, my new coven website puts a *lot* of stuff up front, and we've had only 2 expressions of interest since it went up in mid-October. However, both of those were very serious expressions of interest, and it's practical stuff (schedule conflicts/distance) that have meant they're not a great fit, not their overall fit with what we're doing.

After you start training, expect at least half the people to lose interest. The group I trained with, we'd most often lose people in the first 2-3 months (it was also the most intense time of training for many people, and tested their overall commitment because it was mostly not shiny exciting stuff, but the slow building-skills parts of things that aren't nearly as witchy on the surface). And then a smattering across the rest of the year. I recommend this approach, because it really does weed out the people who are just in it for the glamour and witchy-in-the-nightness.

In working in an initiatory tradition, it's not uncommon for someone's life to blow up in some significant way (relationships, health, family issues, work, etc.) if something's out of kilter in their life (even for really good reason.) This can mean someone needs to withdraw from training or put it on hold. I consider these in a different category than "lost interest" - and they're often people who might get an offer of continued training in the future once the issue in question has settled down.

4) Find someone to keep you honest.
The trad I work in has a strong preference for team-teaching (i.e. 2-3 teachers for a small class of students.) The new coven isn't pushing that quite as heavily (especially as we expect to have 2 students at most at any given time), but I do think it's really healthy to be working with another teacher who can give you feedback and ideas and help you problem solve (and who, ideally, can share other ways of looking at something with your student.)

If this isn't possible in a physical setting, this is a place I think the 'Net can be quite useful, though there are obviously some complications.

Ok! That's my rambling for the night. As you can see, there's a whole bunch of things at play. Good luck!

[RainInanna]

How about the advice on how NOT to teach? :)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

How about the advice on how NOT to teach? :)

Number One Rule :

Do not teach stoned , drunk , or in any altered state ,
including religious ecstacy...

[~Elise~]

How about the advice on how NOT to teach? :)

Don't teach with ego...don't let ego overrule your mouth or good sense.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Don't teach with ego...don't let ego overrule your mouth or good sense.

Yeah...that is my rule number two...

Without rule number one...can often be overlooked...:bigredgri

[HetHert]

Jenett...:thumbsup: Thanks so much!

RainInanna: That's a great question!

I definitely agree with Shawn and Elise on two big nono's I've encountered as a student and as a priestess in group meetings. Ego and inbriation are not values when discussing/planning, teaching, or learning.

[RainInanna]

Actually I was thinking about how to get the gods to leave you alone and stop making you teach. :lol:

I find it's hard to put "don't teach through your ego" into practice. So often we don't even realize when we're speaking from our ego, since we're so used to thinking our ego is our self. Every day I'm learning and re-learning how to use my ego or not.

[~Elise~]

Actually I was thinking about how to get the gods to leave you alone and stop making you teach. :lol:



If you EVER figure that one out...I want the secret, as well, please.

[AJwins]

When teaching, I find formal lessons and absolute necessity. If you're not teaching in a formal tradition with grades or degree structures, make sure you yourself structure your lessons in a way that they build upon one another.

Also, make sure you know what you're talking about. There is alot of bad information out there, and I see new people getting taught the wrong things all the time. Challenge yourself as a teacher to seek out sources that upset you, that hold a different point of view, and try to understand them. Religion and magic, and especially teaching religion and magic, is not just about solving problems and simplifying your life, but challenging your life so you can overcome. Overcoming the nonsense you might have been taught is important so you don't teach it to your students.

[LadyeFalcon]

I can understand. Though I have studied with a variety of teachers over the years I never felt quite comfortable with the whole concept of teaching. Though I have learned much from those experiences my core belief system and practice is still heavily influenced by family traditions. So I was never comfortable with the idea of putting together a 'coven' or anything like that. Though I found that if someone wanted to hear about my personal tradition they usually ended up finding me :) and usually I ended up working with folks on a one on one basis or in a small group. Also I did have a desire to be with like minded folks especially when my children were younger. So one of the things I would do was put together a Pagan Mothers 'support' group. Those groups were usually ones of mutual exchange and I learned as much as I shared. I went through a period in the 90's were I felt inspired to compile a 'course' and did offer it for several years. How exactly how that course came together I was never quite sure it just happened it wasn't really something I had planned to do before I sat down one sleepless night and started typing away on the computer. Funny how those things just happen sometime. Just because we are a Priestess doesn't mean we HAVE to teach in the 'traditional' sense sometimes enabling an open place for others to share is the best way to learn and teach.

[Astara Seague]

just say no... I cant right now
but that is very hard to do sometimes
I find I am teaching even when Im not "teaching" if that makes sense

you could say I dont think you are ready to learn
but that is very hard to do sometimes, I have turned people away before because they had lets just say the wrong reasons for wanting to learn at that time

[brymble]

Number One Rule :

Do not teach stoned , drunk , or in any altered state ,
including religious ecstacy...




...or with active phase lyme disease!

When I gave my very first workshops at Starwood, I almost slept through my own lectures! I just showed up and it was like, ok, this workshop is now an open discussion because I am dead on my feet. I suppose I could have had a worse first teaching experience, though.