5th Satanic Statement

[Modesty]

#5 Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!

For those interested in discussing the satanic statements a little more, what do you think of statement 5? What does it mean to you?

[Caitlin.ann]

#5 Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!

For those interested in discussing the satanic statements a little more, what do you think of statement 5? What does it mean to you?

To me it kind of represents standing up for yourself. If someone brings harm to you then you have the ability to bring him harm as well rather than being just a victim..if that makes any sense. Don't lie down and be kicked, get the jerk back so he/she doesn't harm you again.

[Nox_Mortus]

I don't really see it so much as standing up for yourself, more like getting back at anyone who has "wronged" you in your view, IMO vengeance is usually a complete waste of time and energy.

[Modesty]

Every time I read this statement, I think of the movie, "The Crow". They killed him and his girlfriend (first Crow) or the son and father (City of Angels) and one comes back to avenge the death of their loved one. Violent yet loving/romantic.

Anyways, if someone does something to you, instead of shrugging it off and being continuing to be nice, give them a taste of their own medicine. It's almost always guaranteed to get them off your back. For the few times it isn't, just shoot them :O)

[Caitlin.ann]

Every time I read this statement, I think of the movie, "The Crow". They killed him and his girlfriend (first Crow) or the son and father (City of Angels) and one comes back to avenge the death of their loved one. Violent yet loving/romantic.

Anyways, if someone does something to you, instead of shrugging it off and being continuing to be nice, give them a taste of their own medicine. It's almost always guaranteed to get them off your back. For the few times it isn't, just shoot them :O)

Thats pretty much how I think of it. "Standing up for yourself" as in make sure they know they can't just mess with you or they'll keep on doing it.

[Modesty]

Vengeance may be a waste of time and energy to you, but what about the anguish and misery the person who is getting picked on to begin with is feeling? If you are made to feel miserable everyday of your life, isn't the insecurity that the person would feel instead of being able to go on living life without fear, greater than vengeance?

Standing up for yourself is a big thing to some people. Some people are made to feel like worthless, useless individuals because of bullies or people that don't accept others that are different. Taking a stand against them, shuts them up and lets them know that you aren't their puppet. Let them talk privately, let them spread lies, for what they sow privately is only self-destruction. And self-destruction lacks self-preservation and self-sufficiency.

I don't really see it so much as standing up for yourself, more like getting back at anyone who has "wronged" you in your view, IMO vengeance is usually a complete waste of time and energy.

[Nox_Mortus]

Vengeance may be a waste of time and energy to you, but what about the anguish and misery the person who is getting picked on to begin with is feeling? If you are made to feel miserable everyday of your life, isn't the insecurity that the person would feel instead of being able to go on living life without fear, greater than vengeance?

Standing up for yourself is a big thing to some people. Some people are made to feel like worthless, useless individuals because of bullies or people that don't accept others that are different. Taking a stand against them, shuts them up and lets them know that you aren't their puppet. Let them talk privately, let them spread lies, for what they sow privately is only self-destruction. And self-destruction lacks self-preservation and self-sufficiency.

there's a huge difference between standing up for yourself and being vindictive.

[Lunacie]

there's a huge difference between standing up for yourself and being vindictive.

I agree. There's a difference between getting revenge and not being a victim anymore. With my ex (while we were still married) it was as simple as saying "That was an inappropriate thing to say to me. I'd appreciate an apology." And then I'd just go back to whatever I had been doing. Didn't get a lot of apologies, but it did make him realize that he was saying some horrible things to me and I wasn't going to let him push my buttons anymore.

[Caitlin.ann]

I agree. There's a difference between getting revenge and not being a victim anymore. With my ex (while we were still married) it was as simple as saying "That was an inappropriate thing to say to me. I'd appreciate an apology." And then I'd just go back to whatever I had been doing. Didn't get a lot of apologies, but it did make him realize that he was saying some horrible things to me and I wasn't going to let him push my buttons anymore.

I think that in itself could be seen as "not turning the other cheek" honestly. As for the "vengence" part I think thats just wording and can be taken very differently depending on who's reading said statement. LaVey was theatrical and loved to shock so of course he'd word things in such a fashion, though thats just my opinion.

[Cunae]

I agree. There's a difference between getting revenge and not being a victim anymore. With my ex (while we were still married) it was as simple as saying "That was an inappropriate thing to say to me. I'd appreciate an apology." And then I'd just go back to whatever I had been doing. Didn't get a lot of apologies, but it did make him realize that he was saying some horrible things to me and I wasn't going to let him push my buttons anymore.

I agree. When I tire of trying to understand someone who is being an ass at every turn, often the result of a pathological insecurity (exhibited in everything from verbal to physical abuse), I walk away. I end the conversation and move on.

[Modesty]

Let me ask you this: If someone killed someone that you dearly love, would you seek vengeance? Or would you simply let the law deal with it, where they would go to prison, get 3 meals a day, access to an education, cable television, able to send and receive letters, receive packages, etc.?




there's a huge difference between standing up for yourself and being vindictive.

[Modesty]

Do you really think a school bully will listen to a petrified kid that says, "I don't like what you are saying to me and I would like an apology"? Do you think there would be a lasting friendship after that? Do you think there would be a friendship at all?


I agree. There's a difference between getting revenge and not being a victim anymore. With my ex (while we were still married) it was as simple as saying "That was an inappropriate thing to say to me. I'd appreciate an apology." And then I'd just go back to whatever I had been doing. Didn't get a lot of apologies, but it did make him realize that he was saying some horrible things to me and I wasn't going to let him push my buttons anymore.

[Lunacie]

I think that in itself could be seen as "not turning the other cheek" honestly. As for the "vengence" part I think thats just wording and can be taken very differently depending on who's reading said statement. LaVey was theatrical and loved to shock so of course he'd word things in such a fashion, though thats just my opinion.

Yeah, it just seemed like he was going for the complete opposite, when I think it's better to find a balance of some sort. Sometimes that means backing off and letting something happen or continue if the cost of stopping it is too high or affects others in a bad way. Sometimes it means getting some justice, whether we take matters into our own hands or do something to involve the authorities.



I agree. When I tire of trying to understand someone who is being an ass at every turn, often the result of a pathological insecurity (exhibited in everything from verbal to physical abuse), I walk away. I end the conversation and move on.

Doesn't always work, but it's usually worth trying.



Let me ask you this: If someone killed someone that you dearly love, would you seek vengeance? Or would you simply let the law deal with it, where they would go to prison, get 3 meals a day, access to an education, cable television, able to send and receive letters, receive packages, etc.?

Yeah, prison is a lark.
Not.

Would it be better for me to go after the sociopath that has killed my loved one, so that I end up in prison myself, depriving the rest of my family of my support?



Do you really think a school bully will listen to a petrified kid that says, "I don't like what you are saying to me and I would like an apology"? Do you think there would be a lasting friendship after that? Do you think there would be a friendship at all?

As I said to MysticChristian, sometimes it actually works. When it doesn't it's time to take it to the next step. Personal judgment would decide whether that means involving the authorities (parents - school staff - police) or taking on a bully who is usually bigger and has minions to back him up. And I'm okay with not being friends with everyone in the world so it wouldn't matter whether there was a lasting friendship no matter how I decided to handle a bully.

[~Elise~]

This is a Satanic sub forum...do not impose other paths or beliefs onto your answers.
Don't like the heat...get the outta the kitchen.

[Caitlin.ann]

Yeah, it just seemed like he was going for the complete opposite, when I think it's better to find a balance of some sort. Sometimes that means backing off and letting something happen or continue if the cost of stopping it is too high or affects others in a bad way. Sometimes it means getting some justice, whether we take matters into our own hands or do something to involve the authorities.

I think he worded it like that, or maybe he was really going for that for a shock factor. I know a lot of what he wrote was in done to be in direct opposition with some christian doctrine. With that being said, I think the statements are open to some interpretation when thats taken into consideration. My personal stance is one of self-preservation and sometimes I take the high or low road depending, so I do agree a balance of some sort is needed. Sometimes its better/easier to take it (whatever abuse or offense) and sometimes its better to fight it.

[GEBS]

there's a huge difference between standing up for yourself and being vindictive.



and there is a huge difference between a Satanist and a non-satanist.

[Caitlin.ann]

and there is a huge difference between a Satanist and a non-satanist.

True and I hope I'm not offending anyone by my own posts..

[Lunacie]

and there is a huge difference between a Satanist and a non-satanist.

I didn't think this forum was closed to non-Satanists? The OP asked for anyone who was interested to discuss. I feel we have been discussing, quite civilly, here. I don't see anyone pushing their religious beliefs in any way, just sharing some personal beliefs. (Said beliefs may in all likihood be based on a religious path of course).

[Nox_Mortus]

Let me ask you this: If someone killed someone that you dearly love, would you seek vengeance? Or would you simply let the law deal with it, where they would go to prison, get 3 meals a day, access to an education, cable television, able to send and receive letters, receive packages, etc.?

No i would not seek vengeance, it wouldn't be worth the risk to myself and people I care about, especially since other people can handle it.


and there is a huge difference between a Satanist and a non-satanist.

that would be a major generalization, there are plenty of people who agree with most or all of the main Satanic priciples that are not Satanists, and quite a few Satanist who disagree or have different interpretation of some of those principles.

[GEBS]

I didn't think this forum was closed to non-Satanists? The OP asked for anyone who was interested to discuss. I feel we have been discussing, quite civilly, here. I don't see anyone pushing their religious beliefs in any way, just sharing some personal beliefs. (Said beliefs may in all likihood be based on a religious path of course).


I don't believe I said it was closed to non-Satanists. I also did not say that anyone was pushing anything on anyone else. Anyway, I am quite certain that anyone following a Satanic path could handle a little pushing, if that was the case.

What I was saying is that if you are not Satanist or at least somewhat agreeable with the philosophy then you will not see things the way that a Satanist would. What is vindictive to one might be standing up for one's self to another. I know some that would consider it an obligation.

[Caitlin.ann]

As for vengeance, I know many Satanists perform "destruction spells" in order to bring retribution to those that have harmed them. I suppose the fifth statement could have something to do with that as well and in that case unless you believe in karma I would see no danger in that. Many witches perform curses/hexes so I see no issue with this.

[Modesty]

I get where you're coming from.

Sometimes though, under certain circumstances, one must defend themselves in a very vengeful way.


No i would not seek vengeance, it wouldn't be worth the risk to myself and people I care about, especially since other people can handle it.



that would be a major generalization, there are plenty of people who agree with most or all of the main Satanic priciples that are not Satanists, and quite a few Satanist who disagree or have different interpretation of some of those principles.

[Nox_Mortus]

I get where you're coming from.

Sometimes though, under certain circumstances, one must defend themselves in a very vengeful way.

I do agree that it can be appropriate in certain circumstances, but I don't think vengeance really works too well as a blanket philosophy, especially in conjunction with a somewhat self serving religion like Satanism.

[Modesty]

Sometimes I just can't get the words out. But that was well put!


I don't believe I said it was closed to non-Satanists. I also did not say that anyone was pushing anything on anyone else. Anyway, I am quite certain that anyone following a Satanic path could handle a little pushing, if that was the case.

What I was saying is that if you are not Satanist or at least somewhat agreeable with the philosophy then you will not see things the way that a Satanist would. What is vindictive to one might be standing up for one's self to another. I know some that would consider it an obligation.

[GEBS]

that would be a major generalization, there are plenty of people who agree with most or all of the main Satanic priciples that are not Satanists, and quite a few Satanist who disagree or have different interpretation of some of those principles.


Yes, I know. Please see my last post for further explanation. (was typing when you posted) :smile:

[Sage Rainsong]

#5 Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!

For those interested in discussing the satanic statements a little more, what do you think of statement 5? What does it mean to you?



When I see this statement I tend to think of it more in terms of rejecting the "turn the other cheek mentality" rather than pro vengeance if that makes any sense. I like this statement, even though I am not a Satanist, because I was raised with the idea that the meek shall inherit the earth and all of that stuff. I was taught that the best way to deal with someone who horrible to me is to pity them, try to stay out of their way, and let Jesus/God/ the saints handle it. We were to then supposed to congratulate ourselves on being so pious. I am big on situational ethics so I do think that there are cases where vengeance is called for and even justified. That is not to say that you should declare a holy war on everyone who looks at you funny or that bitch who cut you off in traffic. The punishment should fit the crime IMO. Vengeance can consume a person (obviously not a good thing) and Satanism IMO is about personal fulfillment. So I do not think that the 5th statement is about promoting being some kind of juvenile bad ass behavoir. Rather I think that it's about giving yourself permission to stand up for yourself and do what you think is right for the situation. Sometimes that can include being vengeful, if the circumstances warrant it. There is nothing holy about being a doormat. Walking away, frank statements, and telling authority is all well and good, but it doesn't always work. Anyway, those are my thought, but hey, I could be way off.

[Modesty]

So, if vengeance to some is not acceptable, then would turning the other cheek be okay? And if turning the other cheek is for weak-willed individuals, then what lies in the middle ground?

[Caitlin.ann]

So, if vengeance to some is not acceptable, then would turning the other cheek be okay? And if turning the other cheek is for weak-willed individuals, then what lies in the middle ground?

A balance of give and take doing always what is in your best self interest..or at least thats what *I* do. :p

[Nox_Mortus]

So, if vengeance to some is not acceptable, then would turning the other cheek be okay? And if turning the other cheek is for weak-willed individuals, then what lies in the middle ground?

the middle ground is knowing when to turn the other cheek and when not to.

[Modesty]

Awesome! great thread we got going here guys and gals and interesting ideas :O)

[Happydeadkitty]

Let me ask you this: If someone killed someone that you dearly love, would you seek vengeance? Or would you simply let the law deal with it, where they would go to prison, get 3 meals a day, access to an education, cable television, able to send and receive letters, receive packages, etc.?

Depends, on the situation. Was it an accident? Did they try to prevent it?

I can forgive, I can also turn the other cheek, which I try to do. I can accept some things just for what they are.

or was it malicious? was it murder...or worse?
If I felt the need to hunt someone down and seek vengeance, I would. Because indeed I am capable of nasty things.

I really don't see to many problems with Satanism.

HDK

[Lunacie]

I don't believe I said it was closed to non-Satanists. I also did not say that anyone was pushing anything on anyone else. Anyway, I am quite certain that anyone following a Satanic path could handle a little pushing, if that was the case.

What I was saying is that if you are not Satanist or at least somewhat agreeable with the philosophy then you will not see things the way that a Satanist would. What is vindictive to one might be standing up for one's self to another. I know some that would consider it an obligation.

I see now. That's not the way I was reading it. Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like we agree that it's all personal interpretation and personal responsibility, eh?

[Lunacie]

Depends, on the situation. Was it an accident? Did they try to prevent it?

I can forgive, I can also turn the other cheek, which I try to do. I can accept some things just for what they are.

or was it malicious? was it murder...or worse?
If I felt the need to hunt someone down and seek vengeance, I would. Because indeed I am capable of nasty things.

I really don't see to many problems with Satanism.

HDK

In the case of my daughter sustaining some very severe and life-impacting injuries in a car crash - the other driver wasn't maliciously trying to crash into her, but he wasn't being responsible since he was high on drugs and possibly alcohol as well.

Sure I could feel very vengeful, especially since he has skipped the state and is managing to avoid serving any jail time. But really, how would that make things any better for my daughter? All I have asked all along is for justice all around, and for all I know, his having to hide and not be with his family is even worse for him than my having to live with my daughter and watch her hurting and worrying about her future health, seeing her depression over having to give up her chosen profession and worrying about being able to provide for her children. Or maybe whatever reason he had for being high and drunk in the first place was too horrible to face sober and he is still running away from that.

[GEBS]

Sounds like we agree that it's all personal interpretation and personal responsibility, eh?



Exactly


:hugz:

[Chaos Hawk]

To be honest, I see nobility in both attitudes.

There are times when it takes more strength to turn the other cheek and not respond. There are defiantly times when turning the other cheek can be worse for the offending person then any act of vengeance.

There are also times when that is the not the correct approach. There is a time to stand up and fight for yourself and your loved ones.

I think it all depends on the situation.

For myself, I try to remain neutral about most things. Or to see both sides of the situations. Often though, I find myself more on the attack side rather then the "just let it go" one.

[Modesty]

I think it is part of human nature to be on the attack side of things.


To be honest, I see nobility in both attitudes.

There are times when it takes more strength to turn the other cheek and not respond. There are defiantly times when turning the other cheek can be worse for the offending person then any act of vengeance.

There are also times when that is the not the correct approach. There is a time to stand up and fight for yourself and your loved ones.

I think it all depends on the situation.

For myself, I try to remain neutral about most things. Or to see both sides of the situations. Often though, I find myself more on the attack side rather then the "just let it go" one.

[Xentor]

This 5th statement is one of the ones with which I happen to agree: if you hurt me or my family, you will be hurt in return. Very old-testamenty ethics: eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

[Philosophia]

#5 Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek!

For those interested in discussing the satanic statements a little more, what do you think of statement 5? What does it mean to you?

I will protect anybody I love but I'll also allow them to bear the consequences of their own actions. For myself, it really depends on the situation.

If it's something I brought on myself, I'll accept the consequences of such actions.

However, if the situation is something out of my control, than I'll do anything to make sure I remain protected and than, when safe, attack.

[W.C. Avery]

To be honest, I see nobility in both attitudes.

There are times when it takes more strength to turn the other cheek and not respond. There are defiantly times when turning the other cheek can be worse for the offending person then any act of vengeance.

There are also times when that is the not the correct approach. There is a time to stand up and fight for yourself and your loved ones.

I think it all depends on the situation.

For myself, I try to remain neutral about most things. Or to see both sides of the situations. Often though, I find myself more on the attack side rather then the "just let it go" one.


I think I would agree with this statement. There is a great deal of fluidity to life and as such each situation is unique and calls for a different action.

I would like to comment that vengeance is not the same as standing up for one's self. Vengeance is about stooping to the same energetic level as the purpotrator. Standing up for one's self to me, implies a certain "rising above the situation" quality to it. And of course, sometimes vengeance can put myself and/or others in much greater harm.

In standing up for one's self or using your power to rightfully put someone in their place, hopefully they can realize the err of their ways, and assumably grow from the situation.

[Stormbeard]

Let's not reduce this to the simple austere, rudimentry "You hit me so I hit you" definition or construction of the phrase.

Vengence can simply be karma in action and can come from simply letting the aggressor wander into a trap, from which their ego might take quite a knock. Mainly it's an escape from the Biblical oppresion of it's peoples. Those who consistantly turn the other cheek when struck, will spend their lives on the floor with naught to show but calloused hands and a broken back when all is said and done.

Don't let yourself become indoctrinated towards submission. You are a beast, defend your territory from predators.

[Glowingsun]

I try to steer away from Satanic stuff. Idon't believe in Any devil anyways.
I think that statement is not something I would live my life around. Vengence is like jealousy and holding grudges. I can't stay mad at people for very long, I have more of a heart than that.

[GEBS]

I think perhaps you misunderstand what Satanism is. :smile:

[Stormbeard]

I try to steer away from Satanic stuff. Idon't believe in Any devil anyways.
I think that statement is not something I would live my life around. Vengence is like jealousy and holding grudges. I can't stay mad at people for very long, I have more of a heart than that.
Lol wut