Anger...Hate

[BearDancing]

I was chatting with my sister today and we were discussing...anger, hate...we talked about what we "felt" when we were happy, sad and there were definate feelings we could both relate to...not the very same but we knew we were feeling....then we tried to think of how we "felt" when angry.....it was weird we could not put words to the feelings...We came to an interesting conclusion..

Hate and Anger are not emotions...they are re-actions to "not understandilng someone or something"

Before you pounce on me...think about it...if you are angry that your spouse say...hit you...I think the dramatics of hate or anger are a reaction...because mixed up in the hate or anger...one is really onl feeling sadness for self....

It is interesting how hate is more acceptable in society than sadness....you could see someone swearing and yelling at another and think almost nothing of it...yet when you see a stranger crying so many turn away because they are not comfortable with themselves or another crying...

What do ya'll "feel" about this...feelings not re action:hairred:

[Glowy]

Anger and Hate.... scare me... when I feel it.. I feel very powerful and have terrible thoughts. It takes me a while to "get there" when I do.. the events are never calm. If I am mad, sad, happy, ... I cry. I cry for how I feel, I cry for lots. The absence of my tears... is terrifying. Perhaps it is a reaction. I don't know.

[BearDancing]

can you describle anger..or hate...am not disagreeing...am wanting to know if you can put words to it.....or if you think about the anger does it go back to a sadness etc...thanks Glowy

This is interessting.....I have realised when I am very angry lately...last few years....it is always the same thoughts...feelings of having a knife in my hands and stabbing quite violently and or gutting a person with the knife..."why would I feel this when I am angry" is this past life or what...I really do not feel powerful or anything....the thoughts just automaticall go to the knife thing....that is weird

[Astara Seague]

I dont know about "reaction" but I do know that when I feel either one
I hurt deep inside deeper then any person could ever hurt me physically

[cydira]

Hmm... I'm inclined to disagree. I believe that anger and hatred are emotions that have the potential to be as powerful as a deep and abiding love. It is my opinion that what we are taught to recognize as anger and hatred is a set of socially encouraged responses but the emotions themselves are not the same as those responses.

After all, anger can motivate a lot more then the 'negative' stuff that is usually ascribed to it. It can be what get a severely injured person to a point in their recovery where they have regained lost function in their limbs or the impetus behind taking action to correct a gross miscarriage of justice (like the Civil Rights movement here in the USA during the '60s).

I think that we're encouraged to fear our anger and other 'negative' emotions. As a result of this socially encouraged fear, we distance ourselves from them until we don't even really know what we're feeling. Anger can be empowering and a tool of liberation even as it can be oppressive and a tool of abuse. The question is what we do with the emotion, not what we feel.

That, however, is my opinion after having worked thru a great deal of anger and other 'negative' emotions to get to where I am today.

[cydira]

WOW! You people type fast (or I type really slow)! :hahugh:

When I feel anger, the severity of my anger determines the extent of my reaction. Usually, I find my body becomes mildly tense and I become highly aware of my environment. The more angry I am, the more focused I become on the target of my anger and the more visually focused I become.

Sometimes, I find that my stomach will get a bit knotted up when I'm angry as well. At other times, if I'm extremely angry, my feet will have muscle spasms later at night. This makes me think I probably remain tense. *shrugs*

Aside from that, I feel two different versions of sensations with anger. The first is 'hot' anger, which tends to just be described as the explosive yelling version. Sometimes, I'm inclined to throw things like that. Hot anger comes with a sensation of heat diffused over my body. The second version is 'cold' anger and then I become very still and it's as though a bubble of mental silence descends on me. Cold anger is a state where I know that if I needed to kill a person, I would. The whole world becomes reduced to simple facts and simple decisions where as with hot anger I'm just riding on this overwhelming wave of fury.

I've felt both forms. And I have to say that both versions have served me well. In the case of cold anger, it actually prevented me from being assaulted and assisted me in defending myself against someone who had over powered me. *shrugs* I can't say that anger isn't a good thing in the light of this. Hate is just a strange beast and I've yet to understand that enough to really comment on it. :P

[BearDancing]

is it hate or anger that is actually motivating....my biggest motivator to date was to be the very best I can be for my children..to set an example and to impart spiritual knowledge to them....that they could use or not any time in their life...yet they would always have it to fall back on...

at that time in my life I was so sad, unforgiving of myself, unloving and self destructive to myself...yet from the depths came this little voice....as I mentioned....I felt I needed to be the best I could be so I could share that with my children...

As for pain...I had my left hip replaced 2 yrs ago...for 5 years I was in excrutating pain....the pain killers did not take the pain away they just made me not care that I was in pain....in all that time I felt sorry for mysself at times...but what really did I have to be angry at.....to blame someone or justify my pain...who knows

[BearDancing]

I totally understand the cold version......kind of like you are in nowhere land and you know you would kill if you had to....no emtion tied to it you just know you are very capable....

the red hot stuff I think is a physical reaction...not a feeling....physical feeling not emotional feeling....

[Cunae]

I think if you dig deeply enough, you'll find the source of most anger is the fear of something. It's cool when you can get there and deal with whatever it is.

[BearDancing]

I dont know about "reaction" but I do know that when I feel either one
I hurt deep inside deeper then any person could ever hurt me physically

that is what I mean by sadness.....deep hurt inside...etc....it can be as deep as love...but to me it is not the anger that you emtionally feel it is the deep hurt/sadness that you feel emotionally:uhhuhuh:

[brigidrose]

Pain is very hard to live with, it breaks people down. I believe you can overcome it but it takes almost a different state of mind. I have not ever experienced anything like that, but I know people who have.

Anger is an emotion that is felt, (I'm thinking of a baby crying, hungry at first then crys out of frustration, then anger. Hmmm I will have to ponder this more.
Hate is learned, but it stems from fear. I believe all negative feelings are fear first then turns to anger, hate ect.

Wow! Maybe there is no real answer.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Oh , boy , do I wish my past ladyfriends could see this...

...ROTFLMAO !...:bigredgri

When I am working on something...mainly mundane work...

Which I dislike intensely...I am not a physical labor slave , and
everyday type errands , are not my cup of cappuccino...

But when I have to do them...and I try , calmly , rationally , and
generally without charge...most of the time , nothing works...:smileroll

But as soon as I get pissed...and more , even rage...

Everything works...things fit together , machines start , I solve
any problem , and with ease...

I then laugh my ass off , and move on...:bigredgri

My ex's used to shake their heads , and laugh...WTF ?

They could not understand how my brain became clearer , not
more cloudy with rage...nor how it was a motivator for me , and
I used it , it did not use me...:uhhuhuh:

How did it feel ?

It felt GOOD...( still does )...Empowering...not draining...

The one thing no one wants to do...talk to me , bother me , or
get in my way...until I am finished...then it's all cool...:thumbsup:

Now...same goes for people who have kept messing with me...

I try nice...nothing...I rage...especially when they are not around...

They never bother me again...:bigredgri

My ex's saw ripples spreading out from my body , like psychic
waveforms...one of them got in the way...felt the blast...one time
only...she said she understood , from then on , how it worked...:smileroll

So...E - Motions...I say yes , they are...MmmmMmmmGood !

[brigidrose]

Oh , boy , do I wish my past ladyfriends could see this...

...ROTFLMAO !...:bigredgri

When I am working on something...mainly mundane work...

Which I dislike intensely...I am not a physical labor slave , and
everyday type errands , are not my cup of cappuccino...

But when I have to do them...and I try , calmly , rationally , and
generally without charge...most of the time , nothing works...:smileroll

But as soon as I get pissed...and more , even rage...

Everything works...things fit together , machines start , I solve
any problem , and with ease...

I then laugh my ass off , and move on...:bigredgri

My ex's used to shake their heads , and laugh...WTF ?

They could not understand how my brain became clearer , not
more cloudy with rage...nor how it was a motivator for me , and
I used it , it did not use me...:uhhuhuh:

How did it feel ?

It felt GOOD...( still does )...Empowering...not draining...

The one thing no one wants to do...talk to me , bother me , or
get in my way...until I am finished...then it's all cool...:thumbsup:

Now...same goes for people who have kept messing with me...

I try nice...nothing...I rage...especially when they are not around...

They never bother me again...:bigredgri

My ex's saw ripples spreading out from my body , like psychic
waveforms...one of them got in the way...felt the blast...one time
only...she said she understood , from then on , how it worked...:smileroll

So...E - Motions...I say yes , they are...MmmmMmmmGood !

You know, now that you mention it I do understand how that works. I have something like that happen, but I would'nt say I'm angry, but more focused, Ok, maybe angry, (but I usually cry first) then nothing will get in my way til I'm finished.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

You know, now that you mention it I do understand how that works. I have something like that happen, but I would'nt say I'm angry, but more focused, Ok, maybe angry, (but I usually cry first) then nothing will get in my way til I'm finished.

Well...glad you can understand...:thumbsup:

But for me...I don't cry...I get ANGRY...sometimes I feel Hate...

And it works for me...Now...I AM Irish...hmmm...:smileroll

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Love - Feels like a cojoining , positive binding force...

Anger - Feels like a focusing , motivating force...

Hate - Feels like a dispersing , chaotic force...

Laughter breaks pattern...


Just my Experience...:bigredgri

[Astara Seague]

Love - Feels like a cojoining , positive binding force...

Anger - Feels like a focusing , motivating force...

Hate - Feels like a dispersing , chaotic force...

Laughter breaks pattern...


Just my Experience...:bigredgri

well said my friend:thumbsup:

[RoseKitten]

For me, anger and hate are more than reactions.

First of all, I'm bipolar, so my view on emotions was very skewed before I found a medication and process that helped. However, since I've kicked the sad depression in the rear, anger and hate are new emotions that I've been dealing with.

Hate, for me, is a strong desire to destroy someone, or something.

Anger is a smoldering feeling, a burning desire to get revenge for a wrong done against me.

It used to be, that I would go straight from one of those to being sad or depressed, because I did not have the capacity to deal with those emotions. When depression, anger, and hate come together, depression is what normally takes over.

I do still deal with sorrow and pain of sadness, but anger and hate are emotions to me as well. The anger, the fire of revenge, and hate, the driving passion that allows me the capacity to act, are partners. They are pure, unmoving emotions, and give me a solid determination to complete a task.

[BearDancing]

Interesting.....the word E Motion struck me....hhmmmmm...does it mean energy in motion....spomething for me to ponder....are feelings and emotion the same thing....am thinking

Thanks for the input everyone...nice to hear what ya'll think, feel

[~Audra~]

But when I have to do them...and I try , calmly , rationally , and
generally without charge...most of the time , nothing works...:smileroll

But as soon as I get pissed...and more , even rage...

Everything works...things fit together , machines start , I solve
any problem , and with ease...

I then laugh my ass off , and move on...:bigredgri



this is the same for me...when i have to do something physical that requires extra will power of mind/body, nothing seems to work until i get "mad at it"...i literally scream at what ever it is i'm doing...before long, everything is fine and i laugh it off...i wonder why this works?

IMO hate i believe is a reaction to anger...can we say we hate something without having first been angry with it? i'm not saying hate as in dislike, but as in actual red-faced hate...

if you can be sad or happy about something, you can also be angry with it...hate is also a reaction to sadness...IMO, of course...love is a reaction, as well...

like MC said, fear can sometimes breed anger, though i believe that fear comes from ones will to survive...if you are fearful of someone/something, your adrenaline spikes...anger is sometimes an outcome of fear...a natural defense system, if you will...a primal instinct...

[HetHert]

I think Anger and hate are very real emotions. They need to be validated and acknowledged and channeld appropriately lest they get the better of aomeone.

Emotions can cause very physical body reactions. Emotions can be a very reactionary function in our being. Think about a beautiful part of a movie that moves you to tears. Or an injustice that raises your ire.

Emotions are part of what drive our existence and anger is a very valid portion of ourselves.

The key is not to dissociate onesself from their anger but learn to recognize it, channel it appropriately so one can allow it to run a course and manifest appropriately. Bottling anger, not validating anger usually means it will find another way to manifest in ones life and it's normally, IMO and IME, manifests in a very distructive manner to me. I will stumble, accidently break things, become severely distracted...etc. If I validate anger, express it appropriately, and channel it. I can use the energy that emotion helps create to manifest something in a more controlled manner. You cannot allow the emotion to become who you are. You are not your emotions alone. Your emotions are a function of who you are but they do not have to define your actions.

Fear and Anger and Hate have functions in the persona. They shouldn't be shunned they should be embraced and understood as to what function they serve the person. Learning how to recognize, utilize, and direct the energy appropriately.

And I to do the "get mad @ it" to raise the energy to get the job done. Anger is a great energy concentrator.

[BearDancing]

I am not saying to deny....anger.....yet maybe use it as a que....a que to look at what is making you angery and just see if it is something you understand......look at it from the perspective of the other person...and to some degree I feel you will see that you are not understanding "why" that person did what they did.....

Getting angry to make "something work".....;I would say you are angry because something you think you know is not working/in other words you "do not understand why it is not working"...therefore you may re...focus...but is it your "anger that is making you refocus.....or is it the unconcious thought that what I am doing is not working...*and if I keep this up I will go insane*

I beleive anger is Real....I just feel that it is displaced and possibly not "natural"...if there is anyone out there who can feel the emotions of animals or plants .... could you please let me know if you feel "anger" from them.....even when an animal is shot it does not feel anger towards the person....it is more of a confusion or WTF...

I have only felt anger "once" from animals....It was a vision and I was feeling anger from all of these animal spirits.....I was very taken back because I had never felt if from an animal before......my guide told me that they are angry because their spirits or souls are not moving on......because humans are not acknowledgeing them and their gifts.....therefore they are not growing and sharing as is meant to be.....

[BearDancing]

I think Anger and hate are very real emotions. They need to be validated and acknowledged and channeld appropriately lest they get the better of aomeone.


I beleive they are "Real" re...actions....and if suppressed can do much damage....I feel that looking at "the reason" for the anger or hatred is the way to deal with it......just yellling and screaming...when angry does not solve anything.....it is only when you get to understand what it is in "you" that caused you to re.....act that you can truly release it.

[Woodwose]

I think that many of us are born with an innate assumption that life and the world should be fair, but many of us have exprienced situations that lead us to believe that it isn't. For those of us who have grown up under the assumption that life/the world should be fair but isn't, we are often hurt/disappointed by what we perceive to be injustice. I think hatred is when we become angry over the disappointments that we experience - when we expect things to be a certain way and when they aren't, our disappointment over this builds up into a rage.

People who hate certain groups of other people are basically angry that those groups have not met their expectation of how people should be - whether it is in terms of lifestyle, religion, or race - it stems from frustration over the disappointment of realizing that not everything conforms to our inner sense of how things should be.

In order to hate - to become angry when expectations are not met - one must care. This is why the emotions of love and hate are closely tied together, because they are both dependant upon concern and caring. Hate therefore is not the opposite of love - indifference is. When one fails to feel any emotion in relation to a situation, or an individual, or a group of individuals - that lack of caring and concern, that apathy and indifference - is the opposite of both love and hate.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I think Anger and hate are very real emotions. They need to be validated and acknowledged and channeld appropriately lest they get the better of aomeone.


I beleive they are "Real" re...actions....and if suppressed can do much damage....I feel that looking at "the reason" for the anger or hatred is the way to deal with it......just yellling and screaming...when angry does not solve anything.....it is only when you get to understand what it is in "you" that caused you to re.....act that you can truly release it.


As a few of us have stated , and made clear here...yelling and
screaming , when angry , does solve what we are dealing with...

Especially for me...I do not have to understand , what is not
working...be it a machine not starting , pieces not fitting
together , whatever...I do not go through a rationizalation
process , I just temporarily explode...

And , Lo And Behold ! Everything "magically" , falls into
place , machines start working , energy moves , blockages are
removed...

And then...Laughter breaks pattern , and releases the anger...


Do understand...sadness , and fear , for me , have nothing
to do with what I am talking about , here...

But yes...those who have scared me , have lived to regret it...:bigredgri

And , yes , animals get angry...territorialism and fear , yes...

But I have seen animals get angry...WTF !...we are animals !

Of course it is natural ! Nature - al...Part of our nature...:uhhuhuh:

( Grrr...now I am starting to get angry...I do not want anyone
telling me I am unnatural , and trying to rationalize my right
to my anger away...:bigredgri...ROTFLMAO...:smileroll )

Look...some people may get like this...:hairred:...not me...

And , as they have stated...others of us , feel quite natural , when
we express our emotions of anger , if not also hate...

You asked...we answered...nature - ally !

[Woodwose]

...if there is anyone out there who can feel the emotions of animals or plants .... could you please let me know if you feel "anger" from them.....even when an animal is shot it does not feel anger towards the person....it is more of a confusion or WTF...


Animals do feel anger, as anyone who has lived with or near animals can tell you. Animals have their own inner sense of fairness and their own personal boundaries of what they consider to be right and wrong.

If you cross over into an area that an animal considers to be "their territory" then you may well find yourself in the presence of an angry animal - be it a dog or a bear, or some other animal with a strong sense of territory. If you walk into the yard of a dog who suddenly starts barking and raising the fur on the back of his neck - that dog isn't being afraid - he's pissed off at you for coming into what he considers to be his territory. Animals can be very sensitive to things that don't seem right to them. I've had my own dog bark at me defensively before when I walked into my own yard if I was wearing something that caused him to not recognize me, and then seen his reaction change when I said something and he realized that it was me.

Just because we are humans doesn't mean that the emotions we experience are unique to us, animals share the same emotions that we do - love, hate, happiness, sadness, fear, perhaps even embarrasment....animals even have dreams when they sleep, just like we do.

[~Audra~]

screaming and yelling (also breaking stuff, lol) releases anger...it's like a toxic substance in your body...the term "let it all out" comes from this...if we allow this anger/hatred to build up, we'll explode later and things will be worse...it is good that we can vent in ways that harm none...

that temporary explosion some of us feel is very good for us...other wise, there's no telling what we might do...negative energies have great power...IMO

[Shawn Blackwolf]

it's like a toxic substance in your body


It is a natural "substance" , which can become toxic , when not expressed...just to make that clear , from my perspective...:uhhuhuh:

Dammit ! ...ROTF...:bigredgri

[~Audra~]

you're right... :thumbsup:

dammit...

[BearDancing]

I am not telling you anything Shawn I am sharing my feelings at the moment and am looking for others to share their opinion.....so I feel you have misinterpreted my opinion or feelings of the moment...they are mine.....is your anger making you more focused so you can justify "your feeling" of "your interpretatiion of my feelings"

I beleive anger is Real....I just feel that it is displaced and possibly not "natural"... that was my quote....I find it interesting that anything I share could make you angry.....my feelings are my own and why waste your energy on "MY" feelings... I do understand that YOU feel that anger makes you focus...so good for you....there are many ways to focus and you are aware of what works for you...

Do you honestly think that I am telling people "what reality IS" or what I am feeling and thinking at this moment with the knowledge and experiences that "I" have had...I find that I learn from sharing with people....and am kinda thinking out loud...

I am wondering is there a difference between Re..Action and taking action.....I would think that taking action would take some thought....where as re...action is just that...impulsive behaviour...THIS IS DIRECTED AT NO ONE....... just my thoughts....I find your feelings very interesting...not mine but very interesting

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Faerie Spirit...

You are misinterpreting my post...not the other way around...did you even see the ROTFLMAO ?

If I were angry at you...you would hear it very clearly...:smileroll

Go back , and reread...:uhhuhuh:



I am not telling you anything Shawn I am sharing my feelings at the moment and am looking for others to share their opinion.....so I feel you have misinterpreted my opinion or feelings of the moment...they are mine.....is your anger making you more focused so you can justify "your feeling" of "your interpretatiion of my feelings"

I beleive anger is Real....I just feel that it is displaced and possibly not "natural"... that was my quote....I find it interesting that anything I share could make you angry.....my feelings are my own and why waste your energy on "MY" feelings... I do understand that YOU feel that anger makes you focus...so good for you....there are many ways to focus and you are aware of what works for you...

Do you honestly think that I am telling people "what reality IS" or what I am feeling and thinking at this moment with the knowledge and experiences that "I" have had...I find that I learn from sharing with people....and am kinda thinking out loud...

I am wondering is there a difference between Re..Action and taking action.....I would think that taking action would take some thought....where as re...action is just that...impulsive behaviour...THIS IS DIRECTED AT ANY ONE....... just my thoughts....I find your feelings very interesting...not mine but very interesting

[BearDancing]

Animals do feel anger, as anyone who has lived with or near animals can tell you. Animals have their own inner sense of fairness and their own personal boundaries of what they consider to be right and wrong.

If you cross over into an area that an animal considers to be "their territory" then you may well find yourself in the presence of an angry animal - be it a dog or a bear, or some other animal with a strong sense of territory. If you walk into the yard of a dog who suddenly starts barking and raising the fur on the back of his neck - that dog isn't being afraid - he's pissed off at you for coming into what he considers to be his territory. Animals can be very sensitive to things that don't seem right to them. I've had my own dog bark at me defensively before when I walked into my own yard if I was wearing something that caused him to not recognize me, and then seen his reaction change when I said something and he realized that it was me.

Just because we are humans doesn't mean that the emotions we experience are unique to us, animals share the same emotions that we do - love, hate, happiness, sadness, fear, perhaps even embarrasment....animals even have dreams when they sleep, just like we do.

are you feeling the animals feelings or are you watching their behavior...they are different things....I do have a small hobby farm and I am in nature all of the time.....I am only sharing my feelings not my observations....a horse might kick you but is he angry or showing you his boundaries

[BearDancing]

As a few of us have stated , and made clear here...yelling and
screaming , when angry , does solve what we are dealing with...

Especially for me...I do not have to understand , what is not
working...be it a machine not starting , pieces not fitting
together , whatever...I do not go through a rationizalation
process , I just temporarily explode...

And , Lo And Behold ! Everything "magically" , falls into
place , machines start working , energy moves , blockages are
removed...

And then...Laughter breaks pattern , and releases the anger...


Do understand...sadness , and fear , for me , have nothing
to do with what I am talking about , here...

But yes...those who have scared me , have lived to regret it...:bigredgri

And , yes , animals get angry...territorialism and fear , yes...

But I have seen animals get angry...WTF !...we are animals !

Of course it is natural ! Nature - al...Part of our nature...:uhhuhuh:

( Grrr...now I am starting to get angry...I do not want anyone
telling me I am unnatural , and trying to rationalize my right
to my anger away...:bigredgri...ROTFLMAO...:smileroll )

Look...some people may get like this...:hairred:...not me...

And , as they have stated...others of us , feel quite natural , when
we express our emotions of anger , if not also hate...

You asked...we answered...nature - ally !

obviously your experiences with feeling animals feeling are different than mine....I believe you are actually feeling them so thanks for sharing that with me....it is not something I readily feel from animals....as I said I have only felt it once

[Shawn Blackwolf]

And you are not getting what I am saying...

When I get angry...the universe responds...things happen...

It is not even me taking the action , many times...

The universe takes action , because I got angry...

But of course...in answer to your other question...there is a difference between re - action , and taking action...

That is a whole different issue !

[BearDancing]

you are right...I was not "getting" what you were saying....

I get it now...do not understand but I do "get it"

[Shawn Blackwolf]

And that , is exactly what my ex wife , and girlfriends said ,
when they saw it work , again and again...WTF !?


you are right...I was not "getting" what you were saying....

I get it now...do not understand but I do "get it"

[BearDancing]

Hate and Anger are not emotions...they are re-actions to "not understandilng someone or something"

that was my original statement......and now that I am thinking about what you said Shawn.....I do beleive that the Universe responds to every action....change in frequency.....has to change something in this world of frequencies.....is your anger not a re....action to whatever you are feeling about the job.....your re...action could have been to swear, laugh, refocus.....many things.....Do you actually beleive that the Universe.....makes these things you are angry at....work because you are angry....I find that puzzling...why would you CHOOSE anger instead of guidance or something....do you know what makes you choose anger???? Am I off in left field again

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I do believe you are also dealing with an enigma , which hard
science , and psychology , are still attempting to come to terms
with , regarding the brain , and processes...

Rage , fear , hate , and other very primal feelings , do not "stem"
( Haha...a medulla oblangata joke )...from the frontal brain , but
from the back of the brain...R - complex , and others...

So...utilizing the front of the brain , to understand thru rational
mind , the irrational subconscious , is close to impossible , no
matter how much they keep claiming they know...they still don't...

Most of the subconscious is still unexplored...like dark matter...

As the subconscious id , said to the conscious mind...

"You ain't got my ID number , yet , buddy"...:bigredgri

[BearDancing]

do you mean the lizard brain when you say primal and back of the brain.......

[~Audra~]

is your anger not a re....action to whatever you are feeling about the job


but, so is the sadness, the happiness, the love, or the neutral "don't care" feelings... if all are reactions, we do not have emotions or feelings, right?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Do you actually beleive that the Universe.....makes these things you are angry at....work because you are angry....


Absolutely , 100% , YES !



why would you CHOOSE anger instead of guidance or something....do you know what makes you choose anger???? Am I off in left field again


Never knew it worked , until the experiment of life , showed me it worked , by situation...But It Works !

So...I do not choose it , consciously...I get mad...something works...

See my last post...you are going to beat your head against a wall ,
trying to understand subconscious process , with rational mind...

And to me , that , is both hilarious , and futile...:bigredgri

[Shawn Blackwolf]

do you mean the lizard brain when you say primal and back of the brain.......

Do some homework...

If you want to know...don't ask me...start googling R - complex , and follow links on at least 3 - 5 different sites...

This is what frustrates me , about some people on MW...

Not just you , Faerie Spirit...if I post something...like R - complex...

I wish more people would be self motivated to start researching ,
before the next question...a pet peeve of mine...

( Oh...that was not anger , by the way...very minor frustration )

...:bigredgri...Now...let's see if it works...:bigredgri

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think anger and hate are two opposing notions that are misunderstood.

For me Anger is the outward expression of an internal situation. I say situation for the motivator for it is varried depending upon the outward action.

For instance if I feel as if I am being slighted then my anger is derived from the sense of wrong I feel was commited against me. That anger may take the form of a cold harshness that settles upon me to one of verbal attack. I'll admit if it goes to a cold feeling look out for then I want vegence or revenge and will strike to harm. If other wise then I may rant and rave even break something but the purpose is different.

Anger may derive from a sense of loss or hurt at times. In those situations I am more likey to be more hurtful in my efforts to strike back. Things I know that will hurt I use for I want the person to feel my pain and hurt as if it were their own. The deeper the hurt the deeper I will try to strike with my words.

So while the anger is an outward display of something at times it is also a sign of determination or frustration for me. If I am bound and detemined to do a thing then my anger becomes the focale point of my energy and is projected at the thing or item I want completed or finished. It is also the point where my frustration is such that I put more and more atteniton into the item, the more I put into it the more my focus narrows, the more narrow it becomes the more intense my anger appears.

Hate now that is different for me. Where anger is an outward projection I find hate to be an inward self comsuming notion.

We hear people say they hate this or hate that yet I find more often than not that hate is simply anoyance with a thing or person than an actual hate. It is something that has disrupted them or their pace and they hold that itme, person or thing as the reason for said dsruption so they place ther anoyance with the thing under the guise of hate.

Yet to say one trully hates a thing I think is to place that thing in such a light that is so intenese that it self consumes. There is no logic or feeling about the thing only a sense or out an out disdain and perversion of it. An emoton so intense and negatively focused that it makes one ill or deluded to simply think about it. Almost an anamosity with it and anything that touchs upon or deals with it.

In realility I can not say I have ever trully hated a thing or person. Yes, disliked intensly or despised but never hated.

Do Animals hate and get angry? I say it depends upon the species of animal or plant for that matter.

A cow may seem a non anger or hate creature yet let fear or a sense of hearding encroach upon it and it is clear anger that you feel towards you as it lowers its head and charges or snorts at the ground. Yes defensive in nature and action but that is as close as I can think of to an animals anger at something.

One might see the same with a bird. My parents had a cat hat had always attacked the birds near the house, yet those same birds would dive bomb that cat when it laid on the table. Not only a persception of anger but one of joint anger when you saw three or four of them hover then drop upon the cat in two's or a full flight of four at once.

Can plants? I think so, I can't tell of the number of times I pissed of some tree or bush and went to move away and some branch smacked me upon the head or some thorn suddenly appeared in my flesh from a vine or limb that had not been there before.

Or even the root that has laid hidden beneath the leaves and such that for some reason just happens to lift up and tri[ you up as you try to run by it. Not only trip but that sudden sense of laughter and amusement that sinks upon you from the tree as it smirks.

[BearDancing]

very interesting about the plants and animals.....I have had cattle and when the cattle put their head down as you say.....I feel it is more of a boundry than anger......but I do know that when the calf and cow are separated they cry for up to a whole week.....that must be a feeling....yet I read yesterday that if nature were as humans and did not go by instincts.....but by feelings......they would cease to exist..if a baby bird dies the adult just goes on wiith life....it does not mourn for 5 yrs.....it goes about its natural cycle.....???? lots of interesting points of view....maybe we will never know

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think part of the problem is that anger is a human emotion and thus we define what we see against our understanding of that emotion. In some ways one might equate the anamorphic joining of human chara and animal chara to create that understanding as a best bet analysis of it.

For instance the cow is probally just guarding and demonstrtating about boundaries. However, it's actions some what resemble what a human would do under similar conditions so we some what equate our human configuration upon that mold.

A means of making our human perspectives and notions fit the non-human world we observe about us. In some ways making it more understandable to us and our ability to relate to our place within it I think.

[~Audra~]

http://www.crystalinks.com/reptilianbrain.html (another link for reptilian brain)

how do you know whether a bird mourns...we know that gorillas, whales, and especially elephants mourn...

perhaps WE aren't the most intelligent species on the earth...we don't know for sure, but we can't say a definite yay or nay for other species activities/ feelings...

i had a cat once who's kitten (she only had one, first litter) died...she wouldn't let us get around the little thing...this cat was very sad and died soon after...we also had a dog that died of a broken heart (and i KNOW this, i was there)

this said, and with our knowledge that space is infinite, there ARE other creatures/ species out there that are to us like we believe we are to animals...as the saying goes "if you can dream/think it, it ALREADY exists" no probability to it...we will be as peculiar to these beings as some animals are to us and they will be (or think they are) intellectually superior to us...

My point is we HAVE emotions, how can we believe that any animal doesn't?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

My point is we HAVE emotions, how can we believe that any animal doesn't?


Yes but our ability to understand and recognize them is derived from our ability to anaylze our own understanding and concept of what each emotion is. It is through comparisson of ourselves and species that we think we understand the notion of emotions in other species.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Perhaps...:uhhuhuh:

I do not have to think...to FEEL an animal's E - motion...

However...if I am to categorize that emotion , I filter it though
a lens of perception , as defined by mental parameters...

Yet...could the animal have those same parameters , without
them being achieved through study , as in humans ?

Do we come to the same conclusions , which are already innately
programmed into the other animal's consciousness ?

As well ours , though it takes our frontal brain process , and time
to "catch up" to what the subconscious already knows , and is thus
programmed with ?

By the way...I would thank everyone in this thread to remember ,
and please to address as such...

We Are Animals...

Addressing it otherwise , is discrimination , and shows a degree of speciesism...

...:bigredgri...There's a new word , for you...I do believe , unless someone
has already taken this overdue stance...:uhhuhuh:

I shall check...:smileroll


Yes but our ability to understand and recognize them is derived from our ability to anaylze our own understanding and concept of what each emotion is. It is through comparisson of ourselves and species that we think we understand the notion of emotions in other species.

[Phoenix Blue]

Yes but our ability to understand and recognize them is derived from our ability to anaylze our own understanding and concept of what each emotion is. It is through comparisson of ourselves and species that we think we understand the notion of emotions in other species.
It's all well and good to say this, but start roughhousing with a cat, and you'll get scratched. Animals have emotions -- anyone who's lived with a pet can testify to this.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism

[MonSno_LeeDra]

boy this is sort of hijacking the thread but I think your touching upon the old notion that all things once spoke a common tongue and new each other regardless of species.

Myself I tend to think so and at times we might just actually remember a part of that old language and understand the other peoples of the earth.

ok back to regular programing

[watersprite]

To me Anger is an intense feeling connected with an offense or a crime aimed at myself or someone helpless to fight against it. Like the last 8 years under this soon to be done administration.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

It's all well and good to say this, but start roughhousing with a cat, and you'll get scratched. Animals have emotions -- anyone who's lived with a pet can testify to this.


I agree but it is through our own perspective as to whether we think them playing or not. I've had our cat play for a bit and get tired of it then let me know that but only through knowing the animal could I see when one emotion gave way to another though the physical action remained the same.

[W.C. Avery]

Good thread. I have been very interested in anger, hate and rage for a very long time now. I have a great deal of rage inside of me, and it has sadly ended some of my relationships. So without further adieu....



.....it was weird we could not put words to the feelings...

Firery, explosiveness, acidic, boiling, volcanic. Just to name a few.

Hate and Anger are not emotions...they are re-actions to "not understandilng someone or something"

I think what you are describing is frustration. And frustration can lead to anger. But regardless I believe they are closely related.


Before you pounce on me...think about it...if you are angry that your spouse say...hit you...I think the dramatics of hate or anger are a reaction...because mixed up in the hate or anger...one is really only feeling sadness for self....

I do believe that at the bottom of the example you have given, there is hurt and sadness/ hurt involved. A lot of my own rage comes from hurt inside of me. Sometimes rage and anger can be the result of fear. But this has been stated many times over.

It is interesting how hate is more acceptable in society than sadness....you could see someone swearing and yelling at another and think almost nothing of it...yet when you see a stranger crying so many turn away because they are not comfortable with themselves or another crying...

Yes you are right it is interesting. And it is true we are not comfortable with crying ourselves. I think it is an illusion that people have. Seeing someone yelling at another, it is an agressive act, wheras the crying is seen as a sign of weakness. People have a hard time with their own vulnerability. Which is too bad if you think about it.

[Deerwoman]

I believe there are two main emotions - love and fear and that other emotions are a part of one or the other. Hate can be fear of the unknown, fear of what is different, of who is different. Hate can be caused by fear - fear someone will hurt you or a loved one, and fear of being belittled or shunned by someone can also cause hate towards them. Hate isn't an irrational reaction, but a premeditated emotion - usually a person has to do something to cause hate.

For instance, I have premeditated hate towards my landlord (along with their thousands of tenants) because they are money-grubbing arses who will screw you over any chance they get. I have hate towards the American corporation who took over my local gas company because they tried to cut all the trees down along their gas line - until a neighbour called the municipal government and the gov reminded the company that it's illegal to cut down trees in my neighbourhood...they had to replant, but I'll never forgive them or use their services again.

But do I hate any individuals? Nope. Someone has to do something pretty bad for me to hate them. I may slightly dislike someone, but mainly I'm all about the love because I think love should always win out over fear. When I find myself hating a person, I stop and think over why. I usually discover that it's not worth expending energy over and the reasons why the person acted in a way to cause hate were founded in their own fears - which isn't my problem. Also when you give aggressive people tea, they usually calm down and get over their issues - and back to the love.

:javaswim:

[Modesty]

Hate and Anger are emotions. They are emotions because they are felt. You feel anger and you feel hate during certain times or around certain people. If you consider these two emotions just reactions, then you might as well say that the happiness you feel when your significant other gives you a wedding ring is just a reaction because it was a surprise, the sadness you feel when someone you know dies is just a reaction because you loved them, etc.

They are emotions, not reactions.

[cydira]

My, this is an interesting thread. So many different perspectives to read about, it's quite fascinating. :)

All I can think of to add to this thread are three things, which one may agree or disagree with. *shrug*

1.) I am genuinely confused as to why the emotions of anger and hatred are routinely portrayed as undesirable and therefore 'bad'. (To be honest, that stance also rather irritates me, but that's just me. :) ) This position appears to manifest in just about every discussion about these emotions and it doesn't make sense to me. Why are these emotions viewed this way? They are morally neutral, much like the feeling of pain or the sensation in your fingers as you type.

2.) I agree with the position that anger and hatred can be described as an activation of the Limbic system and that ol' 'Fight or Flight' response. I believe, however, that basing an analysis of these emotions strictly upon the Biological school of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_psychology) limits the discussion far too much and poorly reflects the full extent of the role of these emotions. That, however, is a matter of my personal preferences. I tend to be more of a student of the Cognitivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitivism_(psychology)) perspective.

3.) The folks who take the tack that hatred and anger are reactions rather then emotions... I'm sorry but I'm forced to disagree with you. The state of arousal that happens when we're threatened that is a reaction. We then interpret that reaction and decide how we are going to respond/feel about it. Startle me, and I may respond with anger or fear. That is something that I choose based on how I assess the situation.

Now, I will say that a great deal of that entire process of assessing the situation and choosing the response is definately not something that is done with full awareness of the conscious mind. I will also be inclined to agree that we are conditioned to respond to stimuli, like a loud crash, with either fear or anger from an early age. But conditioning can be overcome and with sufficient focused attention, one can deliberately choose how they respond to a situation emotionally.

It is my opinion, however, that a very *very* large percentage of the population are taught that achieving such control over their mind is not possible and they are actively encouraged to be left to operate on the basis of seemingly reactionary emotions. Part of the reason why this is encouraged is because society would be a dramatically different place if all people were self-actualized and fully self-aware, possibly a more difficult place, in my opinion. I also suspect that the other part of the reason why this is encouraged is because it requires a great deal of work to accomplish that level of mental focus. Work that takes away from the whole host of other things required for the smooth operation of society.

All of this, however, is my opinion. And, no, by the way, I haven't yet mastered this skill. I am making some progress, but it is not easy.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Nice post , Cydira...

Just to be clear...I was attempting to put it in simple terms for Faerie Spirit...

Myself , I am more a 7 - 3 brain model , with an eight circuitry
outlook...:bigredgri...



2.) I agree with the position that anger and hatred can be described as an activation of the Limbic system and that ol' 'Fight or Flight' response. I believe, however, that basing an analysis of these emotions strictly upon the Biological school of psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_psychology) limits the discussion far too much and poorly reflects the full extent of the role of these emotions. That, however, is a matter of my personal preferences. I tend to be more of a student of the Cognitivism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitivism_(psychology)) perspective.

[Woodwose]

I believe there are two main emotions - love and fear and that other emotions are a part of one or the other.

:javaswim:

Although I disagree with your assessment that there are only two basic emotions, your post did put me in mind of the words to a song that I like very much, which I haven't listened to for far too long:



Bill Horton was a cautious man of the road
He walked lookin' over his shoulder and remained faithful to its code
When something caught his eye he'd measure his need
And then very carefully he'd proceed

Billy met a young girl in the early days of May
It was there in her arms he let his cautiousness slip away
In their lovers twilight as the evening sky grew dim
He'd lay back in her arms and laugh at what had happened to him

On his right hand Billy tattooed the word love and on his left hand was the word fear
And in which hand he held his fate was never clear
Come Indian summer he took his young lover for his bride
And with his own hands built her a great house down by the riverside

Now Billy was an honest man he wanted to do what was right
He worked hard to fill their lives with happy days and loving nights
Alone on his knees in the darkness for steadiness he'd pray
For he knew in a restless heart the seed of betrayal lay

One night Billy awoke from a terrible dream callin' his wife's name
She lay breathing beside him in a peaceful sleep, a thousand miles away
He got dressed in the moonlight and down to the highway he strode
When he got there he didn't find nothing but road

Billy felt a coldness rise up inside him that he couldn't name
Just as the words tattooed 'cross his knuckles he knew would always remain
At their bedside he brushed the hair from his wife's face as the moon shone on her skin so white
Filling their room in the beauty of God's fallen light http://www.metrolyrics.com/images/l/41622.jpg


I do think that anger and hate are emotions, along with love, fear, happiness and sadness. They are both emotions and reactions, or to phrase it better "emotional responses" to external stimuli. When a person has a "feeling" about something, that feeling is an emotional reaction. I don't see any purpose in splitting hairs or trying to classify things into one catagory or the other when there is no real difference between them.

[Caitlin.ann]

Anger..hate..I experience both quite frequently.

Here's on example of why I'm angry now..

A Christian/ex-pagan wrote..

Satan was leading up to something, and we understood what when he spoke to us himself one day and ordered us to sacrifice a child. We were Satan's servants, we did not object, but were worried about getting caught. Satan laughed at our worries and told us that we had brethren in all sorts of unlikely places - there are thousands of missing children every year and the pagan police officers would be sure to say our victims were either just missing or, in case of any bodies being discovered, dispose of them if possible or blame a serial killer.

The next day we enticed a ten year old girl in from the street. We held her in the warehouse, and held a disgusting ritual where her still-beating heart was held aloft as an offering to Satan. That poor child suffered terribly and I can only hope God has her at peace with Him now. The spells we performed using her poor little body had added potency, weaking havoc and causing serious problems to Christians and all who opposed us. We used our connections to have her body destroyed after we had finished.

We sacrificed animals, humans, anything we could get to serve our master Satan. We all grew to love the taste and sight of blood as we powered up to fight our enemies. There was no depravity we would not perform for Satan - we even raided a graveyard for bones to make a potion from in one instance! We all grew wealthy and powerful from Satan's help, though our negarious activities were not spoken of in front of pagans, the same way their "higher" rites were not spoken about to us.

Resource (http://geocities.com/expagan4christ/blood.html)

Anyone want to analyze why I'm angry over that? Its not because I don't understand whats going on.

[Woodwose]

It sounds to me as if the Christian/ex-Pagan you quoted was in reality a Christian/ex-Satanist.

I've never had a problem with the whole Christian confusion over the Horned God = Devil thing, it just doesn't bother me. I see it as just another example of Christians misunderstanding their own religion and its mythology. After all, if you read the Bible - Satan wasn't some fallen angel cast down and condemned to reside in the firey infernal bowls of the earth - Satan was God's gambling buddy, who walked to and fro over the world testing men's faithfulness to the almighty Yahweh and making wagers with him over whether he could get mere mortals to curse God if given a free hand to plague them with boils and other assorted maladies. What a wonderful theology those crazy Judeo-Christians have!

[PhoenixRevival]

QFT: "though our negarious activities were not spoken of in front of pagans, the same way their "higher" rites were not spoken about to us."

What would anger me is the above comment, as if the two could in any way be considered remotely similar. Though if he/she isnt lying about the murder part, I do hope fate catches up with him/her.

Anger and Hate are very visceral for me. When I'm angery, my thoughts seem to boil. I flush, and often enough much to my own detriment friend and foe alike are tossed in the same pot.

Hate is my anger if anger went from a Red Super-Giant star to a Black Hole. There are things I consider sane when at any other time i would think are crazy. Hate for me is a primal, blood-thirsty part of my whole, that if provoked doesnt stop until I or the person who provoked it are delt with. Sometime I wish hate was something that would just pass me by.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

There are times I love Hate...

And there are times I hate Love...

But it is in the Middle Way I find my Power...:bigredgri

[Shanti]

I was chatting with my sister today and we were discussing...anger, hate...we talked about what we "felt" when we were happy, sad and there were definate feelings we could both relate to...not the very same but we knew we were feeling....then we tried to think of how we "felt" when angry.....it was weird we could not put words to the feelings...We came to an interesting conclusion..

Hate and Anger are not emotions...they are re-actions to "not understandilng someone or something"

Before you pounce on me...think about it...if you are angry that your spouse say...hit you...I think the dramatics of hate or anger are a reaction...because mixed up in the hate or anger...one is really onl feeling sadness for self....

It is interesting how hate is more acceptable in society than sadness....you could see someone swearing and yelling at another and think almost nothing of it...yet when you see a stranger crying so many turn away because they are not comfortable with themselves or another crying...

What do ya'll "feel" about this...feelings not re action:hairred:

IMO, all feelings are emotions. We feel them all. hate, anger, we feel!

Acting on them is reaction!!!
Getting mad is a feeling, hitting someone is reacting!

And all emotions are needed and serve their own purpose. Its when we dont have the mental control to let go of one that we can run into trouble. Feel, embrace it, be it good or bad, and then let it go!
And learn from it all.

[malkookoo]

Anger and Hate are two seperate things, IMO.

Anger is a secondary emotion, but still an emotion. You feel anger because you don't want to feel something else (sadness, hunger, heartache). Anger is emotional cover-up and it provides distance from unpleasantness, put you in control.
But anger can still be used constructively, in art, exercise, etc.

Hate on the other hand is almost purely destructive and a lot more than emotions.

However, I think that, generally, we distance ourselves from these things too much. There is value in constructive anger.

...And there is value is hate as well. It is destructive, just like a wrecking ball. And certainly, there are places where a wrecking ball does not belong. Birthday Parties, for example. However, the destructive power of a wrecking ball is very, very usefull in knocking down old, usesless, possibly harmful structures.

[BearDancing]

likin your posts...thanks for sharing ya'll

[ElementalExtacsy]

Anger to my mind is an emotion while hate is merely a reaction.* Neither to my mind is more detrimental than the other.* The etherial nature of anger and the heat of passion that it ignites within me have always likened it in my mind to elemental fire.* It, as with all elements and emotions, is not intrinsically good bad or indifferent.* Life, will, circumstance, consequence, reward, etc. all work towards molding the present and past into the future present and past.* Misguided or over-indulged love can become obsession and lust, joy can lead to mania if left without tethers to reality and balance.* Use elemental fire, earth, water, air, and spirit without prejudice and all can provide the necessary key for the many doors along the pathway to self...

[BrightStar]

I've always felt anger and hate arise from the same thing,fear.
And we usually fear what we don't understand.
So,when I feel anger or hate,I try to find my fear,and then try to understand

Peace and Love
BrightStar

[feralmama]

I find anger to be an emotion of its own, just as fear is. Fear may make a person turn angry, and they can go together, but the idea that anger only from anything else does not work for me. I don't need to be afraid to be angry when I see someone being insulted, hurt, or see someone mistreating an animal, or causing public destruction, or whatever. Fear does not have to be involved- not one bit.

Hatred, to me, is a conglomeration of other emotions that begin to feed on themselves. If fear and anger are emoted, then hatred is inward, really. It is like drinking poison and expecting someone else to suffer the consequences.

[BearDancing]

I've always felt anger and hate arise from the same thing,fear.
And we usually fear what we don't understand.
So,when I feel anger or hate,I try to find my fear,and then try to understand

Peace and Love
BrightStar

I am speaking of negative emotions here...I so agree with you..I have been seeing very clearly when anger, fear arise in me...*am trying to to re- act to them* I am using it as a que to look back on my life and try to find the source...for possible healing of myself, it shows me a difference side of myself that I have the power to change or leave as is

[RuneicResearch]

Ignorin the other posts because I can't be bothered to read through them all, I have only this to say. Hatred without passion is meaningless. The same applies to all emotion. Hatred is as powerful an emotion as love, and same as love, you need to control it, not let it control you.