Must prophecies be only about the future?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

This is a letter I wrote to a friend and though that it might be interesting to see what it inspired here. Since it was a letter to a friend it has that slant in voice, hopefully it will not detract from the meaning.

I am sitting here tonight and it is 3:37 in the morning. Yet for the first time in days I actually feel more awake and alert than I have in days, maybe even weeks as it were. In some way I think I owe it to a question. Now the question dealt with the notion of can one be a prophet or oracle for the gods / goddess? Actually grabbed my attention and made me do some thinking on the subject and the notion of can one have prophetic visions and dreams?

The other thing it made me ponder or consider is the notion that does a prophecy have to deal with a future event only? Oh, everything one reads or hears about is always future slanted but does it have to be? Can it be something that is used to clear up or clarify something of the past?

In almost every occurrence the prophet claims it is a vision of the future and usually of some catastrophic event that awaits man. Yet what if it is to reveal or enlighten about a past event that is unknown or hidden in the shadows? We see a world destroyed and think it must be the future of some nation yet what if it was actually the demise of a past civilization that is being shown to us?

It also raised the notion that if we think we receive these visions of prophetic nature from a god / goddess, are we making an assumption to think that they would see time in the same restrictions as we would? If I assume that Artemis has given me a vision of an event, upon what gauge do I judge it or time line to place it for position? If it be the Artemis of ancient Greek origin then does she see time as I see it? It would seem that to make that assumption is to malign her notion of the passage of time. Maybe even restrict her perceptions to a limit of a single human life span.

Now I realize that it somewhat implies that my life span and awareness of it would be different than that of the god/goddess that is using me as an oracle. Yet does it then imply that anything I am passed will only be of a future event and not an acknowledgement of a major event in the human time line but could be prior to my life span or time frame? I would think that for it to be my life time or life span would require the deity in question to be only observing that fragment and ignoring all others that come before or after my small time slot. Yet to me it seems logical to think that the deity in question would be passing glimpses of world shaking events, past, present or future that are observed by him/her.

It seems a little presumptuous to think that the events of my life and time span would be of such importance that they would narrow thier focus to that point only. To try and draw important events that would impact upon that limited space of time. Yet it does seem to me to be logical to think that minor events maybe seen to use as a gauge of ability and to hone that ability to a fine sharpness. Almost to the point of practicing with the everyday type thing to establish the ability to receive and understand and refine so that one might be more successful in handling the larger events that are not restricted to real time occurrences.

Yet I wonder if it would be correct to think that a deity themselves would be the one to provide the day to day stuff that prepares one for thier service? Yes I could see them taking a hands on approach to a really significant message or prophecy but minor visions or preparations, that does not seem logical to me. I would think in that option a lessor entity would be used. Perhaps even what we call guardian angels, power animals, spirit guides or something similar in nature.

So do we actually undermine the prophecy that we receive in our notion that it must be for a future event? Do we restrict the amount of acceptance and believability by looking only forward at the expense of a past that could be revealed to us? I have things I have seen that I can not put in a current or future world but they fit with pieces of historical data for past events. Would they be prophetic in revealing the truth of a past as much as the events of a possible future?

[Shanti]

[quote]So do we actually undermine the prophecy that we receive in our notion that it must be for a future event? Umm that is what the word means. There are other terms for knowing things that are not of the future.
Do we restrict the amount of acceptance and believability by looking only forward at the expense of a past that could be revealed to us? We can look forward with out the expence of the past simply by learning from the past so we can move forward. The past is revealed, its called memory.
I have things I have seen that I can not put in a current or future world but they fit with pieces of historical data for past events. Would they be prophetic in revealing the truth of a past as much as the events of a possible future? There is a differant word for that, maybe a few. I would have to look it up but I dont have time now. You cant just change meanings of words. If a word doesnt fit, find the word that does.

[Philosophia]

proph⋅e⋅cy
   /ˈprɒfəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [prof-uh-see] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -cies.
1. the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.
2. something that is declared by a prophet, esp. a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.
3. a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.
4. the action, function, or faculty of a prophet.
Origin:
1175–1225; ME prophecie < OF < LL prophētīa < Gk prophēteía. See prophet, -y 3
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

proph·e·cy (prŏf'ĭ-sē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. proph·e·cies (-sēz)

1.
1. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
2. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.
3. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing.
2. The vocation or condition of a prophet.
3. A prediction.


[Middle English prophecie, from Old French, from Latin prophētīa, from Greek prophēteia, from prophētēs, prophet; see prophet.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prophecies

As the definition shows, prophecies are about the future.

I think the term you're looking for is postcognition (or retrocognition).

[Tobias]

In the current Christian Prophetic movement, prophecy is not simply about foretelling the future. Prophecy is the proclaiming of a message from God. It can foretell what will happen if certain circumstances are followed, but it can also simply reveal what is or what was.

Notice in the definition posted above:

3. a divinely inspired utterance or revelation: oracular prophecies.


Even there not every instance includes telling the future.

In the prophetic movement, it is being recognized that there are many similar forms of delivering messages from God that are somewhat related. Identifying which one(s) are specifically categorized as prophecy; is often times a matter of biblical interpretation. On a practical level though, receiving insight from God takes on quite a few specialized forms.

Some can sense other people's infirmities, and know God wants to heal them. Some receive a scriptural passage to edify another person. Apostolic gifts would be someone whom God chooses to explain doctrine and church leadership to. Prophets would probably be those who are given the message word for word to deliver to others. Even then it could be a "Word of Wisdom", or a "Word of Knowledge", which through biblical application may or may not be specifically considered "prophecy".

Prophets also come in all shapes and sizes. The Office of the Prophet is a different calling than anyone who simply prophesies. We could go on all day about what makes a person a "real prophet" (according to our understanding of the Word of God ;) ), but I'm sure that's hardly relevant here. :toofless:

What is important (if I can stay on track), is that the Prophetic Movement is focusing on each and every method of God communicating to Man; working with these to try to perfect and utilize them. So in this case the umbrella name of "prophetic" would apply to all, where as the specifics of course are open to further classification.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I understand the notion of a prophecy being something that will occur in a future situation. Part of what I was speaking about is the notion that one may receive a prophecy of some event yet to occur, yet the very trigger event already occured in the past. It turns the persception to the past event vice projecting the outcome towards the future. However, the change of notion or understanding is changed as it then carries forward.

For instance Edgar Cayce had a prophecy of the discovery of Atlantis. Contained within that vision were reference to how life was at the time and how it actually ended. In that instant his prophecy was a future discovery but it's impact was upon a past event not a future event.

Basically in the Edgar Cayce scenario the future event foretold simply directs the analysis to a past event. The past event is more explained and changes the future position of the knowledge of the past.

[Tobias]

If you look at biblical prophets, foretelling the future was but a small part of what they did. One of them walked around naked for 3 years, and yeah, foretold that the people would be led away naked into captivity if they didn't change their ways. The point of his message was not about him being right, but that they were supposed to do something to avoid it from taking place.

Jonah foretold that the city of Nineveh was going to be destroyed, but they did repent and nothing ever happened. By the standards of "foretelling the future", he should be considered a false prophet in that nothing he is recorded in prophesying ever came to pass. But obviously there's more to being a prophet than just getting your predictions right.

That is, if Christianity has any bearing on what our society's definition of prophecy is... :thumbsup:

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Hmm,

I wonder if the notion of a prophit and a prophecy are tied that close together in all communities? When Black Elk had his prophicies they came from the Great Spirit Yet when Edgar Cyce had his they came from the universal library.

Yet neither Black Elk or Edgar Cayce would fall into the category of Prophit as believed via biblical concept.

But then I suppose one needs to understand the difference between profitic Visions, revelations, prophecies, enseights, etc. Not only the differences of meaning but also the backdrop upon which they are viewed.

Boy it is hard at times to fathom what our minds dig up in the middle of the night when viewed against the light of day. Shees I wrote it and am still trying to figure out just what I meant.

[BearDancing]

I have been shown past life experiences * whatever we are calling it*....and it has been very important in my spiritual path.... I know for me that these are of Spirit * whom I choose to call God * this knowledge of the past has helped shape who I am today.... so what is a vision...

[cydira]

I think that the colloquial definition of prophecy as foretelling the future is false and limits the concept of prophecy. If we look at the various prophets from different religions from around the world, we find the function of a prophet is primarily to communicate a message from the divine. Generally, that message is a warning of a current problem that needs to be addressed and resolved within the society.

Prophets occasionally are the mouthpieces by which the divine will utter judgment upon people. They are also voices of hope and inspiration during times of difficulty. I call myself a seer because it hasn't been tainted with the colloquial concept of 'All psychics are precognitive.'

It helps to prevent the whole demand that I tell someone the future. Generally, when I receive something that could be described as prophetic, it is usually guidance for the other person to consider in resolving a problem in their life.

[Kaliel]

I would actually entertain this one with a no answer, I don't think it has to be of the future only, could be a prophecy that would further explain a detail in the past that was missed that ultimately affects or affected the future. I suppose it depends on when you found the prophecy, did you find it before it came true or afterwards? In which case, a prophecy could be of the past, depending on when it was found. Ultimately though, a prophecy created, usually means something farther down the line but could depict events that have already occurred which would ultimately lead towards that end . . . without chance of changing said prophecy.

[Scott Hill]

Ok, I'm not wanting to enter the semantic debate with this comment. [Sets aside his English degrees]. I'm just going to assume we're talking about a connotative meaning of prophecy as hidden information that is revealed. Does it have to entail the future? No. Do I even think the future is anything but a trick of our perspective in space-time? No.

I think MonSno raises an excellent point. I've had to address this issue as a psychic reader. In fact, I've posted the following as part of my disclaimer on my website:

Please understand that the future changes all the time. In fact, a psychic reading makes the future more likely to change because it tells you about how things stand on the path you're currently on. If the reading causes you to change something in your life, therefore negating a feature of the reading, then the reading has still helped you make better decisions. For this reason, I do not offer refunds once a reading is given, and I make no claims about accuracy. In fact, I think people focus far too much on psychic readings as predicting the future. A good reading will help you see time from a more coherent perspective. The patterns of the past and present must be understood in order to effectively change the future. The purpose of a psychic reading is not to determine the future, but to uncover hidden knowledge.

Blessings,
Scott

[Darth Brooks]

I think that the colloquial definition of prophecy as foretelling the future is false and limits the concept of prophecy. If we look at the various prophets from different religions from around the world, we find the function of a prophet is primarily to communicate a message from the divine. Generally, that message is a warning of a current problem that needs to be addressed and resolved within the society.

Agreed. Many of the celebrated prophets in history made statements about what would happen in the future, but the reason they are called prophets is primarily because they are said to have received certain messages from the divine that later became the cornerstones of their respective faiths. Mohammed is a good example: he received the Koran from Allah, and that is the primary reason why he is considered a prophet. Not because he was Nostradamus.


Prophets occasionally are the mouthpieces by which the divine will utter judgment upon people. They are also voices of hope and inspiration during times of difficulty. I call myself a seer because it hasn't been tainted with the colloquial concept of 'All psychics are precognitive.'

I have noticed there are some people who call themselves prophets, particularly in the televangelical ministries, and although I think they are misusing the term in some ways as well, I don't think they are referring to themselves as human fortune cookies either.

"Prophet" is not really a word I care to use in my own work, but I do agree that the term can be used without reference to precognition.

[Morgaine_cla]

Time runs both ways; why not prophesy?

(I will forego, for the present, a discussion of my own view that there is no past or future, but only an eternal present moment.)

[roguetamlin]

I remember when I was taking history of Christianity, the professor stated that "prophecy" meant all times at least in that tradition. Ie. a prophet would have a sense of the past present and future. And in my experience as a tarot reader, I would never discount the importance of the past cards. Only looking at the future gives you 1/3 of the reading. :tarotwitc