I need answers! Ancient Greek polytheism, etc.

[SexualBeing]

I'm such a n00b. Sorry in advance!

I have taken a keen interest in Ancient Greek polytheism. I have no idea what I'm doing spiritually or what to do, but I think it involves that religion (if there is one). I'm following my heart.

Is there a better term for Ancient Greek polytheism? I'm just trying to word my interest as best as I can.

Are there any specific books you can recommend? I'm hoping there is a branch of paganism like Heathenry, but with the Greek pantheon. Or something. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense! I can try to elaborate more..

[Agaliha]

You might want to look though this forum, part of the Path Specific area (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86) here: Hellenic Recons (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=421)
Even if you're not going to be Recon, there's a lot of good info there as well as links.

;)

[SexualBeing]

You might want to look though this forum, part of the Path Specific area (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86) here: Hellenic Recons (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=421)
Even if you're not going to be Recon, there's a lot of good info there as well as links.

;)

Thank you, you big help, you! :)

[Toki Wartooth]

Indeed. I'm sure it's in there, too, somewhere, but you could always check out theoi.com, an entire site dedicated to Greek mythology.

[SexualBeing]

Indeed. I'm sure it's in there, too, somewhere, but you could always check out theoi.com, an entire site dedicated to Greek mythology.

Wonderful. Thanks! <3

[Calli]

Every book I've ever picked up on the subject has turned out to be a textbook aimed at junior high or maybe high school students. I gave up on books. Thanks for these suggestions. I'll try them, too. :thumbsup:

[Toki Wartooth]

Textbooks? Fail. You two should just read Homer's Odyssey, preferably the Mandelbaum translation. ;]

[john.a]

I would suggest skipping textbooks and going straight to the source documents of what we know: read Hesiod's Theogony and Work's and Days as well as Homer's Iliad and the Odyssey. It's also good to check out the Homeric hymns. Much of what we know about ancient Greek mythology comes from these sources. This way, before diving into Hellenic reconstructionism, you have already a working knowledge of Greek mythology and can decide for yourself which reconstructionist practices you agree with and which ones you disagree with.

[Twinkle]

While primary sources are good - for a newbie they are not necessarily helpful in understanding the worldview and religion of the Ancients.

I recommend secondary sources, followed by the primary.

Here is a recommended reading list from Hellenismos.us - a Hellenic Reconstructionist site.

http://hellenismos.us/f/YaBB.pl?custompage=books

I hope you find it helpful. :)

[Twinkle]

I would suggest skipping textbooks and going straight to the source documents of what we know: read Hesiod's Theogony and Work's and Days as well as Homer's Iliad and the Odyssey. It's also good to check out the Homeric hymns. Much of what we know about ancient Greek mythology comes from these sources. This way, before diving into Hellenic reconstructionism, you have already a working knowledge of Greek mythology and can decide for yourself which reconstructionist practices you agree with and which ones you disagree with.


Actually, mythology has little to do with the religion itself. While the mythology is allegorical and holds certain truths upon contemplation - the Gods are not, and have never been, their myths.

[ninurta2008]

theoi.com has lots of material pn greek culture and religion

[*~Amora~*]

Old Stones, New Temples by Drew Campbell is a good beginner's guide. Although dry Greek Religion by Walter Burkert is also very good.

That's the general answer. However, specific questions lead to specific answers. ;)

[john.a]

Actually, mythology has little to do with the religion itself. While the mythology is allegorical and holds certain truths upon contemplation - the Gods are not, and have never been, their myths.

We know comparatively very little about classical Greek religion aside from certain source documents. I mean we have some dubious historians who lived in roughly the relevant time period but still... the issue is not about whether or not knowledge of mythology is equivalent to knowledge of religion or the gods. The issue is what evidence we actually have for ritual, practice, theology, festivals and ethical codes. The very basics, as requested by the original poster, of what we know has basis in the texts that I cited.

To each his own, but if I were following a reconstructed path I would delve into the primary sources that we have that give evidence for whatever the path is before diving into the secondary sources of what people say. That way, I can judge whether what people say is complete nonsense and which is valid. Unless of course, one has no problem in possibly basing one's whole faith tradition on the complete nonsense theories of whichever individual managed to get published.

To be sure, one can work the other way around and do secondary first and then primary - which you suggested is more helpful for a newbie. However, going backwards can result in confirmation bias: you may read something in the secondary sources that you liked and really jived with, and then read the primary sources and read into them, finding evidence to support what you've read in the secondary sources.

In sum, I think reconstruction works best by reconstructing it yourself and then comparing and contrasting and ultimately synthesizing it with the reconstructions of others.

[Incendia]

Old Stones, New Temples by Drew Campbell is a good beginner's guide. Although dry Greek Religion by Walter Burkert is also very good.

That's the general answer. However, specific questions lead to specific answers. ;)

Yes, Burkert is very good! I have yet to read Campbell's book. Will be joining Hellenion in the near future. :)

[Twinkle]

We know comparatively very little about classical Greek religion aside from certain source documents. I mean we have some dubious historians who lived in roughly the relevant time period but still... the issue is not about whether or not knowledge of mythology is equivalent to knowledge of religion or the gods. The issue is what evidence we actually have for ritual, practice, theology, festivals and ethical codes. The very basics, as requested by the original poster, of what we know has basis in the texts that I cited.

To each his own, but if I were following a reconstructed path I would delve into the primary sources that we have that give evidence for whatever the path is before diving into the secondary sources of what people say. That way, I can judge whether what people say is complete nonsense and which is valid. Unless of course, one has no problem in possibly basing one's whole faith tradition on the complete nonsense theories of whichever individual managed to get published.

To be sure, one can work the other way around and do secondary first and then primary - which you suggested is more helpful for a newbie. However, going backwards can result in confirmation bias: you may read something in the secondary sources that you liked and really jived with, and then read the primary sources and read into them, finding evidence to support what you've read in the secondary sources.

In sum, I think reconstruction works best by reconstructing it yourself and then comparing and contrasting and ultimately synthesizing it with the reconstructions of others.


John - as an actual practicing Hellenic Reconstructionist - I can tell you with absolute certainty that we absolutely know about ritual, worldview, and practice from a number of different ways - history, sociology, anthropology, and archaeology.

It's actually quite accurate to say that we can practice publicly with no problems. The home worship is also clearly spelled out.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but I can say that I am a person actually practicing this religion, and from my perspective I can tell you that your view is incorrect.

In regard to how someone studies - I'm not going to argue it - people should do what works best for them. I only gave my perspective, and I've found from experience that it works well for many. Others may feel differently - and that's OK. What's important is that they find a way to get what they need.

[Tim]

We know comparatively very little about classical Greek religion aside from certain source documents. I mean we have some dubious historians who lived in roughly the relevant time period but still... the issue is not about whether or not knowledge of mythology is equivalent to knowledge of religion or the gods. The issue is what evidence we actually have for ritual, practice, theology, festivals and ethical codes. The very basics, as requested by the original poster, of what we know has basis in the texts that I cited.
We know comparatively very little about classical Greek religion? Compared to what exactly?

I would agree those using a solely Philological method (the study the culture's literature, and finding the value only in the works of the ancient historians, poets, orators, and philosophers) for Reconstruction are falling short. We know that the historians often wrote what was said about a subject, rather than what was actual. We know the myths were not used as scripture, and does not paint an accurate picture of the religion. And we know all this because of sciences such as Archeology and Anthropology. Documentation and analysis of recovered material remains, and environmental data, has been and is used to explain the origins and development of the Greek religion. These materials include architecture, artifacts, biofacts, human remains, and landscapes. The information extracted help us to understand the religion’s history, help create an accurate record of the religion’s evolution, and help us to learn the religious behavior.



To each his own, but if I were following a reconstructed path I would delve into the primary sources that we have that give evidence for whatever the path is before diving into the secondary sources of what people say. That way, I can judge whether what people say is complete nonsense and which is valid. Unless of course, one has no problem in possibly basing one's whole faith tradition on the complete nonsense theories of whichever individual managed to get published.

To be sure, one can work the other way around and do secondary first and then primary - which you suggested is more helpful for a newbie. However, going backwards can result in confirmation bias: you may read something in the secondary sources that you liked and really jived with, and then read the primary sources and read into them, finding evidence to support what you've read in the secondary sources.
For the reason you stated ("dubious historians" and such) hitting primary sources first is the absolute worst idea. Unlike some other religions, Hellenismos (and other recon religions generally) do not view these texts as scripture. If Herodotus is wrong about a 'fact', then Herodotus is wrong. It doesn't mean he didn't believe what he wrote, and it doesn't mean that others of his time didn't believe it, but its wrong none the less. The harmful bias is to place faith in these texts, and faith is not part and parcel to Hellenismos. Reconstructionists seek a true image of the religion, not a myth or fantasy.

[*~Amora~*]

Yes, Burkert is very good! I have yet to read Campbell's book. Will be joining Hellenion in the near future. :)
Excellent! Send me a PM with your real name and I'll keep an eye out for your application.

[Incendia]

^ I'll let you know when I send it out.

[Fiamma]

Old Stones, New Temples by Drew Campbell is a good beginner's guide. Although dry Greek Religion by Walter Burkert is also very good.

That's the general answer. However, specific questions lead to specific answers. ;)

Aww, I don't find Greek Religion dry- maybe I'm just a nerd or something but I can sit there and read from it like a little kid reading from a story book.

[Fiamma]

I'm such a n00b. Sorry in advance!

I have taken a keen interest in Ancient Greek polytheism. I have no idea what I'm doing spiritually or what to do, but I think it involves that religion (if there is one). I'm following my heart.

Is there a better term for Ancient Greek polytheism? I'm just trying to word my interest as best as I can.

Are there any specific books you can recommend? I'm hoping there is a branch of paganism like Heathenry, but with the Greek pantheon. Or something. I'm sorry if I'm not making sense! I can try to elaborate more..

Come over and join http://forum.hellenistai.com - it's a forum for anyone practicing or interested in learning about/discussing Hellenic, Hellenic-influenced and inpired religions