Sacred Text Exploration, time for a new focus?

[Agaliha]

I'm not sure if it's the text (Psalms) that was chosen or that people are focusing on other things, but I was wondering if it is time to start on a new text for the Sacred Text Exploration? We could do it along side the Psalms as well.

My idea, now that I've seen, is that doing a whole book is impractical and possibly too time consuming. So I was thinking of shorter studies that could be done, here are my ideas:

1. the 10 Commandments (only 10 discussions)
2. the Beatitudes (only 8 discussions)
3. The parables as told in the Gospel of John: The Good Shepherd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Shepherd_%28religion%29), The Grain of Wheat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grain_of_Wheat) & The Vine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vine) (only 3 discussions)
4. The last 7 words of Jesus (http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/qt/sevenlastwords.htm) (only 7 discussions)
5. Psalm 23 (6 discussions, one for each line) [whole books have been devoted to it, so it's possible for discussion]
6. Psalm 119 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+119) -- the longest Psalm (22 discussions, one for each "part")
7. The Hebrew Names for God (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism) (? discussions, as many as people are interested in)
8. Something different & creative: learning the genres of the Psalms and writing your own. Can be adapted for non-Abrahamic paths as well.
9. The Odes of Solomon (http://users.misericordia.edu//davies/thomas/odes.htm) (there's 42, but we could select a few)
10. A topic study or discussion, for topics and verses for each (http://www.bible-topics.com/).
11. The Shema Yisrael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael) one of the most important Jewish prayers:
"Hear, O Israel, the L-rd is our G-d, the L-rd is One.
Blessed be the name of the glory of His kingdom forever and ever. You shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your might. And these words which I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them thoroughly to your children, and you shall speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign upon your arm, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. And you shall write them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates."
Source: [link] (http://www.chabad.org/library/howto/wizard_cdo/aid/272672/jewish/6.-Recite-the-Shema-Yisrael.htm)

& of course anyone is welcome to suggest more!

Is anyone interested? I hope this idea doesn't fizzle out!

[LacyRoze]

I"m really sorry I haven't been active in this. I had an exam to prepare for and end of year Girl Scout activities to finish. That is all out of the way now thank heavens.

Agaliha, I'm liking you idea!!

[Bix]

That sounds like an amazing idea. I think the way we went about trying to do the whole book of Psalms was a bit mind-boggling. We bit off more than we could chew, so to speak. :)

I really like the idea of discussion the 10 Commandments and the Beatitudes.

[Agaliha]

Yay! Should I add a corresponding poll to this thread? If anyone has any more suggestions let me know before :)

[Bix]

Sure, start the poll.

[angle kitsune]

i would be greatly intrested in many of the topics you listed, i have just started reading the bible- every word from cover to cover. i have thought about joining in on the psalms but i haven't quite made it that far. im close! im half way through job.

[Cunae]

I tried to participate in the Psalms discussion but hardly anyone else was there. I never did like the choice of text, though, and really wasn't sure why it was chosen.

You've come up with some great alternatives, Agaliha! I favor the Beatitudes because some indepth discussion is likely over a significant length of time. I also favor studying the books of the Septuagint--only one or overall as a concept.

And, yes, a poll would help at this point!

[Agaliha]

Poll is up (in this thread)! :)


I tried to participate in the Psalms discussion but hardly anyone else was there. I never did like the choice of text, though, and really wasn't sure why it was chosen.


Well, I think the Psalms are beautiful prayers and poems and unlike some other texts (Epistles, etc) they aren't as exclusive. Many people and faiths have found comfort in them. I just think it was a lot of text to cover and it got overwhelming for some. Something like that might be better off in a real bible study or a college course. :lol: Hopefully this time things will be better!

[Bix]

I liked the choice of text...it's just...I had no idea how to go about doing a Bible study on it, lol. I've never been a part of a Bible study before...so that was a bit daunting for me.

Yay for the poll!

[Cunae]

The poll is great! Some fantastic options. I struggled to select one then tried several and multiple choice was allowed, thank you!

I didn't mean I don't like the Psalms, btw. They are marvelous prayers, but maybe not for study like we were doing them. I have prayed them many times myself to praise or call upon God. Studying their structure and function, then writing our own, would be fun!

A topical study would be the most challenging, perhaps. We could go from anything like the proposed lifestyle of a Christian in the church or in the secular environment to the role of women in Christianity.

[angle kitsune]

Bix, atleast how i was taught to do a study was to write down on paper any thoughts, questions and predictions you have about the text, what its message is, what it says about the god it was written for ect. then read the text, writing down anything you don't understand or any comments. then go about finding answers to what you don't understand useing other bible text. then compare your thoughts from the begining and see if they are the same or different.

thats how i was taught to do it so i don't know, maybe it will give you ideas as to how you want to do it.

[Repossessed]

Why not something outside of the Bible? The apocrypha, or something from the Nag Hammadi?

[Bix]

I think we're hoping to eventually do something along those lines. For a starting discussion, I think it would be a bit easier just to stick with what's in the Bible.

[Agaliha]

So, I have another idea, let me know what you all think. It might help with the studying aspect and keeping us all on the same page (yet allows room for deviation).

Long ago when I was looking into Christianity I found a website called JesusWalk (http://www.jesuswalk.com/) that provides many free email lessons (with study questions) to those that sign up. I subscribed to their psalms one (Experiencing the Psalms (http://www.jesuswalk.com/psalms/)) and it was informative.

They have lessons for some of the ideas I suggested:
7 Last Words of Christ from the Cross (http://www.jesuswalk.com/7-last-words/)
Names and Titles of God (http://www.jesuswalk.com/names-god/)
Sermon on the Mount (http://www.jesuswalk.com/manifesto/) (Matthew 5-7) [includes Beatitudes, but doesn't seem to focus solely on them]

So, if the poll indicates one of those as the winner, would anyone be interested in using these lessons as a guide? Or should we just wing it totally?

[Bix]

That's fine by me.

[Agaliha]

So it looks like the the Beatitudes is the winner so far. Do you all want to wait a bit longer or stick with that?

[Bix]

I'm fine with going ahead and starting.

[Agaliha]

I started the thread:

Beatitudes discussion, part 1: Blessed are the poor in spirit... (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=217940)

:)

[Agaliha]

Bump!

Now that the Beatitudes are finished I was wondering if there's still interest in these type of discussions? If, so there were many choices from the last poll that were tied at could make for another series...

[LacyRoze]

I'm still in if others wish to continue..

[Bix]

I'm still very interested. This has helped me learn from others on this forum. I wish we could get more people involved somehow but I think we're doing the best we can.

[Cunae]

I'm still very interested. This has helped me learn from others on this forum. I wish we could get more people involved somehow but I think we're doing the best we can.


I am guilty of not participating in the last few "blesseds"... I haven't had the mental acuity for it. Maybe something bringing in our pagan friends would better attended. I am thinking a more controversial topic, though that hasn't worked out for me lately... guess I'm not much of a peacemaker!

OT law maybe... creation... Moses... I don't know!

[Agaliha]

Maybe something bringing in our pagan friends would better attended. I am thinking a more controversial topic, though that hasn't worked out for me lately... guess I'm not much of a peacemaker!

While I'd like for more people to join in, making a topic controversial might lead to problems as this is in Paths and an everyone-join-in discussion might lead to debate, which is better suited for Theology and Philosophy where that sort of thing is allowed and welcomed.

I sort of like that it's more low-key here and sharing...I just wish there were more people to join in, but we're a smaller group within MW. :weirdsmil

...I can't seem to think of anymore ideas at the moment. :lol:

[Agaliha]

What about Gnostic texts?

More people might be interested in those rather than straight Bible texts... and some of these have been deemed controversial due to what they show...

Some ones that might work:
Gospel of Thomas (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html)
The Thunder, Perfect Mind (http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/thunder.html)
The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene (http://www.gnosis.org/library/marygosp.htm)
The Odes of Solomon (http://www.gnosis.org/library/odes.htm)
Pistis Sophia (http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/ps/index.htm) -- this one is long, but perhaps parts could be discussed? I'm adding to to the MW Library, too.

[Bix]

That sounds cool to me. I really don't know much about Gnosticism so it'll be neat to really look into it for the first time.

[Agaliha]

I can set up a poll, see if it's worth a try. :)

[ninurta2008]

I picked making psalms and forgot the other one, I also want to look into oral traditions, though not inspired texts, they are still sacred to abrahamic faiths like judaism and very interesting.

[David19]

Personally, I'd like to see some Jewish Sacred Texts being explored, it's something I'd love to see more of, and there are many great things that can be used.

I'd also really love the opportunity to see some Islamic Sutras and Sayings, as I hardly know anything about Islam at all (and, as you know, Agaliha, I really want to learn more about it).

Other than that, the Christian, especially Gnostic texts are great :).

[Agaliha]

Other ideas could be texts written by people of a particular tradition. There are a lot of saints and theologians that have written some interesting stuff. Ditto to Sufi texts and Jewish ones as well.

The MW Library has many possibilities:
Abrahamic Texts (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=749)

Dark Night of the Soul (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=697) by St. John of the Cross is interesting. As are his other texts, which I plan to add soon. Until than, his others are here: The Spiritual Canticle -- http://www.ocd.or.at/ics/john/cn.html The Living Flame Of Love -- http://www.ocd.or.at/ics/john/fl.html

The Confessions of St. Augustine (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=500) is another good one.

The Secret Rose Garden (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=527) is a good Sufi text.

Sayings of the Jewish Fathers (Pirqe Aboth) (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=732)

The Interior Castle (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=504) by St. Teresa of Avila.

Those are just a few...there are tons of possibilities if we don't limit ourselves :)

[David19]

Other ideas could be texts written by people of a particular tradition. There are a lot of saints and theologians that have written some interesting stuff. Ditto to Sufi texts and Jewish ones as well.

The MW Library has many possibilities:
Abrahamic Texts (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=749)

Dark Night of the Soul (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=697) by St. John of the Cross is interesting. As are his other texts, which I plan to add soon. Until than, his others are here: The Spiritual Canticle -- http://www.ocd.or.at/ics/john/cn.html The Living Flame Of Love -- http://www.ocd.or.at/ics/john/fl.html

The Confessions of St. Augustine (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=500) is another good one.

The Secret Rose Garden (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=527) is a good Sufi text.

Sayings of the Jewish Fathers (Pirqe Aboth) (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=732)

The Interior Castle (http://mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=504) by St. Teresa of Avila.

Those are just a few...there are tons of possibilities if we don't limit ourselves :)

Thanks for all those links, I definitely would like to see more Sufi and other Islamic writers, and definitely Jewish texts too.

Personally, I also think it'd be quite cool to see a discussion of the Pistis Sophia, that's something that I'd love to discuss more (it seems to have so much in it, with Jesus showing off amazing powers, turning the universe, facing off against Archons, etc).

[ninurta2008]

Personally, I'd like to see some Jewish Sacred Texts being explored, it's something I'd love to see more of, and there are many great things that can be used.
Haha me too, though I refered to them as oral traditions in general. Though the Tanakh is a bit different than the OT.


I'd also really love the opportunity to see some Islamic Sutras and Sayings, as I hardly know anything about Islam at all (and, as you know, Agaliha, I really want to learn more about it).

Other than that, the Christian, especially Gnostic texts are great :).Same here, though I have some knowledge of Islam.

I still am reading about gnosticism so I can't say I want to start reading on that.

[Bix]

After our Gnosticism discussion...is there any interest for reading part of the Qur'an? I bought a copy of it a while back and have browsed through it a bit. It's interesting but I think having a discussion over it would help me understand it.

I know Agaliha would probably help with this...but who else has some interest?

[Cunae]

Maybe a comparison study?

[Agaliha]

I'm unsure how well this would go... :hrmm:


...is there any interest for reading part of the Qur'an? I bought a copy of it a while back and have browsed through it a bit. It's interesting but I think having a discussion over it would help me understand it. I know Agaliha would probably help with this...but who else has some interest?

Which parts?


Maybe a comparison study?
Of what with what?

[Bix]

I'm not knowledgeable about the Qur'an at all. Is there a starting point people suggest you read when you start to study it?

I know doing the whole thing would be pretty daunting.

[Cunae]

I'm unsure how well this would go... :hrmm:



Which parts?


Of what with what?

Oh, something like the portrait of Mary in the Qur'an, the gnostic gospels, and the Bible. Although now that it's been mentioned, I would be interested in reading a text written by a theologian or saint.

[Agaliha]

I'm not knowledgeable about the Qur'an at all. Is there a starting point people suggest you read when you start to study it?
I know doing the whole thing would be pretty daunting.

I think learning and understanding the faith is a good starting point, it makes it easier to understand the Qur'an, to see the context of things. Without having an understanding of the faith, many aspects of the Qur'an might not be as clear or would be confusing. For example, the concept of Tawhid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawhid)--the Oneness of Allah (swt)-- is fundamental and found throughout the Qur'an. Without an understanding of that and other beliefs, stuff might not make as much sense. Years ago, I tried to read the Qur'an when I had little understanding of Islam and it was rather confusing, now years later, it's still a process to learn and understand, but it's made easier by my knowledge of the faith.

Another thing to utilize is a Tafsir (Qur'an commentary). One of the most used and available is Tafsir Ibn Kathir. It's 10 books, each very long, but it's a must to help understand. Luckily it's available online! You can find it here (http://www.tafsir.com/Default.asp) and here (http://ibnkathir.atspace.com/ibnkathir/). Also, if you have a Qur'an translation with commentary, such as Yusuf Ali, that will help as well. :) But keep in mind, commentary can be flawed and if you're really wanting to understand something, looking at many sources is a good idea.

Though there is something I must point out about Qur'an translations. This is from a sticky I made in the MW Library:

An important distinction to make regarding the translations of the Qur'an is that these translations (in English or other languages) are not considered the Qur'an. So unlike the Bible, which is considered the Bible in all forms its found, the Qur'an is only considered the Qur'an in its original Arabic form. There are many reasons for this and I found a few sites that go into the Qur'an and difficulties in translating:

Qu'an Translation - Difficulties of Qur'an Translation (http://islam.about.com/od/qurantranslations/a/qurantranslate.htm)
An article, "Lost in translation (http://www.newstatesman.com/200408090035)."

Some reviews of English translations, some (translations) are better than others:
Top Picks - English Translations of the Qur'an (http://islam.about.com/od/qurantranslations/tp/english_quran.htm)
Survey of English Translations of the Quran (http://www.soundvision.com/quran/english.shtml)
Assessing English Translations of the Qur'an (http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing-english-translations-of-the-quran)I'm in the process of making a sticky for Islam for this forum that will hopefully help people out. Insha'Allah, it'll be posted soon! :) But if you want or need links in the mean time just ask, I have plenty :uhhuhuh:
!ETA: I've been working on it and decided to move it out from behind the scenes: Islam: resources, links, etc (http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=221807)


Oh, something like the portrait of Mary in the Qur'an, the gnostic gospels, and the Bible. Although now that it's been mentioned, I would be interested in reading a text written by a theologian or saint.

We could just have a discussion about Mary (as) and I'll share the aspects of the Qur'an that apply :) There are many similarities, such as the virgin birth of Jesus (pbuh). Where I think there will be differences is in the Gnostic view. It might be interesting to see, though.

I do like the sharing, comparison/contrast idea though, perhaps it can be used for many topics, even ones like prayer, afterlife, Heaven, Satan, etc.
*

I think if we want to discuss something associated with Islam, one of the many Sufi texts that are available (some in the MW Library even) would be best, IMO. They're easier to understand and allow for more interpretation. ;)