Magic in space

[trueseeker]

I see a lot of experienced pagans posting in this forum so I have a question: If you are in an astronaut suit ,floating into space,or on a planet what workings can you do?Is there magic possible extraterrestrial(out of planet Earth)?Or magic is only on Earth?If you are on Mars for example can you do grounding on Mars and use the planet's core energy?This question has been tormented me since 2 weeks now.Thank you for your attention!

[Sakurako]

My personal path leads me to see no reason why not. But then it depends on your beliefs as to what magick is. My belief is that magick is energy. Everything is made of energy and that that energy is creative (not a creator deity) and flows through everything in the universe. Energy creates and forms the galaxies just as it creates the bacteria on this planet. If anything I would think that being in space would lead you to be able access a "cleaner" more direct universal energy than say here on earth where I sometimes find it hard to filter out the personal energy of others around me. (don't know if I am making any sense, I feel a little scattered today lol) But I don't see why not. I'm interested to see if anyone else posts their thoughts.

[Burning Angel]

Sure - Magic is universal. For all we know, the beings we call Gods may actually be alien beings...yeah I stole that from a million science fiction shows, but what if?! All I hope is that the magical traditions of Earth will survive in our descendants among the stars :)

Also, seconded on the Universal Energy thing :)

~Jon :boing:

[Cassie]

Sure I think magic is universal but I think as time goes on and we begin to seriously colonize space we will find that some magical workings are particular to the planet (or whatever other body) you are living on. (Because it will involve working with energies we don't normally experience now).

[Burning Angel]

Sure I think magic is universal but I think as time goes on and we begin to seriously colonize space we will find that some magical workings are particular to the planet (or whatever other body) you are living on. (Because it will involve working with energies we don't normally experience now).

Definitely - perhaps some other planets are more conducive to magical workings, even to the point of being Wild Magic zones or something like in D&D. I did another geek analogy...but still :thumbsup:

~Jon :boing:

[HetHert]

In theory I would believe the answer to be yes. Energy exists in all matter and if as witches, magicians, etc we manipulate energy to do our bidding then yes, even in space, in theory, it should be possible.

Our planet of course gives us a ton of resources to work with and natural laws that it follows and we move within them in our workings. Different laws may apply on different planets as characteristics of their composition will affect what kinds of properties it's components have but energy manipulation is energy manipulation...just the steps may be altered to fit the climate or mileau.

[Scott Hill]

I think pagans are often terracentric. And this is fine. We live on a wonderful planet, one that's well worth saving, that has its own particular energy signatures. But we tend to think in terms of this planet's patterns.

But magic is possible outside of earth. I don't have personal experience with this in my current body, but I used to work magic on another planet in a past life, and I've worked magic in this life while astrally projecting to other planets and to deep space. So I know magic works there, but sometimes VERY differently.

Take deep space to begin with. It's much easier to banish there, in my experience, but harder to summon things into the void. And elemental magic is difficult there because none of the elements we traditionally think of exist that far out. Sometimes it's more a matter of getting helium bits and hydrogen bits to work with you than anything like air or water. And expect space-time to be easier to manipulate (and more slippery). In fact, deep space is a good place for temporal magic because space-time is smoother there. If you want to be removed from a planet and still use the elements you know, try projecting to this solar system's asteroid belt. It's still different there, but closer to what we know on earth. And take grounding in the void. You certainly won't get much from imagining your roots growing down into the earth! In fact, I recommend you avoid that type of grounding in such places (although an earthy grounding before you leave the planet can help you return to the right place later).

Or take the example of a gas giant planet. Het-Hert is right in saying that different rules may apply. There may be lightning in the atmosphere, and there is likely to be water (or some type of liquid vapor). There could be all manner of gases, but they may not be what we'd call air. As for earth, well, gas giants don't really have it. If you go down far enough into the atmosphere, you will reach a point where pressure and density may cause areas that feel a little bit like earth, but they aren't really solid (except, perhaps, for occasional ice chunks). In fact, for gas giants, gravity may be closer to a ritual element than any notion of earth as we earthlings know it.

You mentioned Mars. It's a good place to start because it's a lot like our planet (compared to the others in our system, at least). In fact, our planet and Mars were possibly very much alike in their early years - before Mars lost its atmosphere. I highly recommend that you project to a place like Mars and try the differences rather than rushing straight for Saturn or some planet out of the system or deep space. Proceed with caution - and keep an earthly anchor in case things go really weird - and you may have some very enlightening experiences in space. And keep in mind that space is not completely alien to us, even if we have to look back very far into our past lives and/or collective consciousness to see it. As many versions of the Charge of the Goddess point out, we're children of the stars. And that's a very literal statement (and, whoops, someone here at MW was making fun of me for pointing that out a few months ago). The heavier elements that make up our bodies (anything heavier than hydrogen and helium) were produced in the cores of stars that exploded many, many years ago. Sorry if I'm being Mr. Obvious again. :smileroll

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can offer any more information. This is, unfortunately, a topic that doesn't often arise.

[Terra Mater]

Being in space would be magical enough for me in and of itself.:smile:

[Burning Angel]

Being in space would be magical enough for me in and of itself.:smile:

Oh yeah...but once I got over the OMG I'M IN SPACE shock I'd try some spells :P

And Scott - awesome thoughts about magic and other planets. I liked the idea of Gravity as a ritual element :) So do you suppose any alien civilizations use Magic? I tried an RP sim about the Planet of the Mages with a bunch of Trekkies and it did not end well...but those who liked the sim loved it :P I'm interested in the RL facts, though :P

~Jon :boing:

[Xentor]

I hold true a theory of reciprocal influence, creating what I've called "fields of probability". According to this theory, things worshipped gain prominence by the worshipping. (In laymen's terms: a God is a God by belief.)

Most worship by us is directed at deity, idols, and our own planet (and maybe some other stuff I left out). Thus, when on a different planet or in space, where the proximity to some worshipped things is greater, their prominence is less, while other worshipped things come nearer, meaning their prominence increases, and for a third category the distance might be meaningless, meaning nothing changes.

So, if you're used to worship yourself, chances are things stay the same no matter where you are. But if you're used to worshipping Gaia, chances are things change when you find yourself on Mars. And if you're used to worship a cosmic deity, chances are things change too, the closer you get to them.

There is a reason why so many religious people have a token of their religion close-by.

[Scott Hill]

Sure - I believe that aliens use magic. I think I've even seen "evidence" of it in my magical work (which should not be mistaken with scientific evidence). I suppose you go so far as to call the quarters as gravity, strong nuclear, weak nuclear and electromagnetic as long as you understand these are more symbols than actual processes in the circle.

No, I don't recommend evoking Gaia on Mars. And, interestingly enough, I'd say you would probably get a better response evoking Mars on Earth than you would on Mars (but that's only a guess - I haven't tried it).

I follow a similar principle, Xentor. However, I believe the "reciprocal" part implies that we and the deities are constantly in the process of co-creating the universe. We need them and they need us, but not in the sense of master/servant relationships. We work together; and deities might function differently at different locations throughout the cosmos, just as we do.

[Louisvillian]

My personal path leads me to see no reason why not. But then it depends on your beliefs as to what magic is. My belief is that magic is energy...Energy creates and forms the galaxies just as it creates the bacteria on this planet
Roughly, this. I see magic as no different from physical forces energy. It is simply another word for the same phenomenon.

[Scott Hill]

That's an interesting statement. I believe that matter and energy are interchangeable given the right conditions (not that these are necessarily common conditions). And, when our magic affects matter, I see that as matter affected by energy. But I think magical energy stays in its potential state, even when "sealed" - it can directly affect other energy, but only indirectly affect matter. That's why I see this world and the otherworld as complimentary, but not connected. And that matter/energy connection may be part of the reason that sympathetic magic works so well (along with intent, the state of the observer, etc.).

[trueseeker]

I think pagans are often terracentric. And this is fine. We live on a wonderful planet, one that's well worth saving, that has its own particular energy signatures. But we tend to think in terms of this planet's patterns.

But magic is possible outside of earth. I don't have personal experience with this in my current body, but I used to work magic on another planet in a past life, and I've worked magic in this life while astrally projecting to other planets and to deep space. So I know magic works there, but sometimes VERY differently.

Take deep space to begin with. It's much easier to banish there, in my experience, but harder to summon things into the void. And elemental magic is difficult there because none of the elements we traditionally think of exist that far out. Sometimes it's more a matter of getting helium bits and hydrogen bits to work with you than anything like air or water. And expect space-time to be easier to manipulate (and more slippery). In fact, deep space is a good place for temporal magic because space-time is smoother there. If you want to be removed from a planet and still use the elements you know, try projecting to this solar system's asteroid belt. It's still different there, but closer to what we know on earth. And take grounding in the void. You certainly won't get much from imagining your roots growing down into the earth! In fact, I recommend you avoid that type of grounding in such places (although an earthy grounding before you leave the planet can help you return to the right place later).

Or take the example of a gas giant planet. Het-Hert is right in saying that different rules may apply. There may be lightning in the atmosphere, and there is likely to be water (or some type of liquid vapor). There could be all manner of gases, but they may not be what we'd call air. As for earth, well, gas giants don't really have it. If you go down far enough into the atmosphere, you will reach a point where pressure and density may cause areas that feel a little bit like earth, but they aren't really solid (except, perhaps, for occasional ice chunks). In fact, for gas giants, gravity may be closer to a ritual element than any notion of earth as we earthlings know it.

You mentioned Mars. It's a good place to start because it's a lot like our planet (compared to the others in our system, at least). In fact, our planet and Mars were possibly very much alike in their early years - before Mars lost its atmosphere. I highly recommend that you project to a place like Mars and try the differences rather than rushing straight for Saturn or some planet out of the system or deep space. Proceed with caution - and keep an earthly anchor in case things go really weird - and you may have some very enlightening experiences in space. And keep in mind that space is not completely alien to us, even if we have to look back very far into our past lives and/or collective consciousness to see it. As many versions of the Charge of the Goddess point out, we're children of the stars. And that's a very literal statement (and, whoops, someone here at MW was making fun of me for pointing that out a few months ago). The heavier elements that make up our bodies (anything heavier than hydrogen and helium) were produced in the cores of stars that exploded many, many years ago. Sorry if I'm being Mr. Obvious again. :smileroll

I hope this helps. Let me know if I can offer any more information. This is, unfortunately, a topic that doesn't often arise.

I like your ideas.I always asked myself if you would be grounded on a planet in outer space,or yes the MOON,let's say we are on the moon.Would it be possible to levitate using a magic technique easy because of the absence of the law of gravity?Using no more but the spirit and not jumping or any body activity.Just physically lifting up by one's spirit.Also would the law of attraction method work in space,if there is not a law of attraction? Another things that twists around in my brain,if that one could combine science and magic at a safe distance to a black hole,in order to turn back or forward in time.Now mathematically it was proven that time travel is possible,and that the spatio temporal laws merge in black holes,creating a loop in time.I would sooo want to visit Ramses the IInd and ask him about his spells and general knowledge,and why the imortality obsession.See,I like to document everything from the source before making my opinion on someone or something :))

[trueseeker]

Definitely - perhaps some other planets are more conducive to magical workings, even to the point of being Wild Magic zones or something like in D&D. I did another geek analogy...but still :thumbsup:

~Jon :boing:

Like shooting flames from the figer tips?or hydrogene power fire?(I say unusual things they are just thoughts,from my day dreaming,I mean how cool it would be if magic could give us what we imagine like flying,telekinetics,healing a friend at a distance)BY the way can someone light a candle on Earth without touching it?Wild magic zones...like zones with manifestor concentrated energy?:thumbsup:

[Burning Angel]

Like shooting flames from the figer tips?or hydrogene power fire?(I say unusual things they are just thoughts,from my day dreaming,I mean how cool it would be if magic could give us what we imagine like flying,telekinetics,healing a friend at a distance)BY the way can someone light a candle on Earth without touching it?Wild magic zones...like zones with manifestor concentrated energy?:thumbsup:

Well, that stuff could happen here with enough power...but even Crowley wasn't there. What I meant was like a zone where magic is basically permeating the area - in the game, wild magic zones can make your spells go haywire, or they can make them extremely powerful. Maybe there's a planet where magic is like that.

~Jon :boing:

[trueseeker]

Well, that stuff could happen here with enough power...but even Crowley wasn't there. What I meant was like a zone where magic is basically permeating the area - in the game, wild magic zones can make your spells go haywire, or they can make them extremely powerful. Maybe there's a planet where magic is like that.

~Jon :boing:

So in your opinion how far did Crowley go?Has he ever demonstrated something tangible and not tricky?Did you ever meet him?What would Crowley do in an astronaut suit?
Seriously now...
As far as some papyrus stories in my library say,there is such a planet filled with such energy,thought to be the birth place of the family of Gods,often confused with Atlantida,the land that sank.The name of the planet is Amentis.Also wrongly confused or associated with the myth of Nibiru.

[Burning Angel]

So in your opinion how far did Crowley go?Has he ever demonstrated something tangible and not tricky?Did you ever meet him?What would Crowley do in an astronaut suit?
Seriously now...
As far as some papyrus stories in my library say,there is such a planet filled with such energy,thought to be the birth place of the family of Gods,often confused with Atlantida,the land that sank.The name of the planet is Amentis.Also wrongly confused or associated with the myth of Nibiru.

:lol: Crowley died in 1947...well before I was born. So no...I didn't ever meet him. I know he claimed to have created tangible results, but I don't have any way of verifying them. And you'd have to explain a bit more by what you mean about what he'd do in an astronaut suit...you mean on a planet in outer space, or in space itself?

I'm no Crowley expert...it seems like you're unfamiliar with the guy in a big way :S You should Google him up :)

Hmm...interesting. I'm not sure if the Ancients had the same idea that D&D did...but it'd be kinda cool :)

~Jon :boing:

[trueseeker]

I read about Crowley.But I don't know what to think.I wish I would meet someone someday that could show me real magical practice,not feed me empty words,with a tricky allure.Like for example if I ask for help for a job and then the next day I get a call from my dream job,saying I'm hired. :))And Crowley in an astronaut suit was just a joke.I imagined the scene to be funny.What would you do in an astronaut suit?

[cydira]

I read about Crowley.But I don't know what to think.

I've read some of Crowley's material years a go (or at least what has been claimed to have been written by him) and I wasn't terribly impressed. I got the distinct impression that a large amount of Crowley's reputation is based in his flair for theatrics and some very ... skilled manipulation of the media. I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't for the notoriety that he acquired, Crowley would be little more then a foot-note in modern occultism. It appears that he drew very heavily upon a bastardized form of Freemasonry, among other things. *shrugs*


I wish I would meet someone someday that could show me real magical practice,not feed me empty words,with a tricky allure.Like for example if I ask for help for a job and then the next day I get a call from my dream job,saying I'm hired. :))

Ok, this statement here (emphasis mine), in my opinion, clearly demonstrates a desire for wish-fulfillment rather then to develop a strong and skillful understanding of how magic works. If you want to see "real magical practice," I would suggest you put a 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda into a single ounce if vinegar. Sure, you can sneer and say it is merely science, but this is among the sources of modern magical thought and modern science - alchemy (a forefather of modern chemistry).

Magic, as I have observed over the last 15 years of study, is governed by the natural laws that we have come to describe in the various fields of science. There are some elements which are difficult to define, but there is also a great deal about the universe that we simply do not understand. If you look at magic, you will find there are two important things at play: psychology and physics.

Now, this is taking theurgy and all the implications of theological consideration out of the discussion. If you wish to include it, things do become a bit more nebulous, but not by terribly much in my opinion. Psychology is in play because of the fact that successful magical efforts need one to engage them in the proper psychological setting. A very very large amount of modern and ancient magical practice depends quite heavily upon a combination of hypnosis and conditioning.

Physics comes into play to describe the aspects of magical practice that can not be clearly understood within the context of psychology. I am particularly partial to the approach that the action of magic is governed by various sub-atomic physical principles due to the interaction between the human brain, body, and environment. Just as casting a stone into a pond will create a ripple, I believe that thought can do the same and there by effect a change upon the world in a more concrete fashion. This, however, is my theory and one that I have been working for years to build a sufficiently strong body of evidence to support it before I submit it to my peers for review.

You say that what you have encountered 'empty words' with 'tricky allure' and all I can think is that you have forgotten about the simple fact that magic and science are indistinguishable from each other when they are not clearly delineated. There are many areas where they overlap, hence the existence of the field of parapsychology.

The reason why we view science the way we do is cultural. If you took any one of us who lives and works within the 'modern' culture with all of it's technological advancements and drop one of us into a setting that is free of the culture and the technology is non-existent except for what we have on our person, it is possible that you would be treated as one who is highly skilled in magic (though it may not be a good thing). Add to this a bit of theatrics, sense of patronizing superiority and a powerful dose of greed (generally for power over the others about you), it becomes possible to even set yourself up as a living god. Strip away those three things and you have science, even if it is poorly understood.

[darkNight]

. If you want to see "real magical practice," I would suggest you put a 1/4 teaspoon of baking soda into a single ounce if vinegar. Sure, you can sneer and say it is merely science, but this is among the sources of modern magical thought and modern science - alchemy (a forefather of modern chemistry).


This is so true. It is funny how advertisers play on our reactions to certain colors to promote their products, among other uses of "magick" by non-magicians.

[trueseeker]

Can dark matter be magic or just scientists trying to push magic away,by inventing this ,so they would never have to admit they were wrong?I wonder if the force that holds the atoms toghter is magic?Another law?For example a really good levitation working is in fact conjuring anti gravitons.and would make you levitate?I saw Tibetan priests levitating for real.I wonder if the large particle collide machine they built,is in fact an attempt to tip-toe magic?

[cydira,You say interesting things.Wish fulfillment?Well,you can call it that way.I said that not because I do not want to be shown real magic,but because I am in a situation right now,where it would really help.I'm stuck and really need a job that pays well,lucky people who have a lot of time in their hands can afford to take a higher stake.I want to get to the very essence of magic,especially the one I carry within me now.It's a long road I know,and as many people say it takes a long time.I wish it would not be like this,but I am working on to get better.But it is kind of difficult when you are a young woman in a men's country,where young especially are not allowed much perspective,and magic is publicly banned and information of sites or occult books are driven into the underground of very few knowledgeable or privileged ones.It's kind of difficult for me,when I have to fight this life,and wonder will I get to live tomorow? I really love magic,I feel it,I hear the music,but my rational side of me just want some reassurance,at least my life to fall in the right place,and leave me more time to progress.I am trying to build my first house,and I will make a hexagon or round room especially dedicated to magic,if people would like to help me with ideas,I will open a thread in the right section,when the time will come.]

[Burning Angel]

Can dark matter be magic or just scientists trying to push magic away,by inventing this ,so they would never have to admit they were wrong?I wonder if the force that holds the atoms toghter is magic?Another law?For example a really good levitation working is in fact conjuring anti gravitons.and would make you levitate?I saw Tibetan priests levitating for real.I wonder if the large particle collide machine they built,is in fact an attempt to tip-toe magic?

Well I don't think scientists are trying to cover up the truth with Dark Matter - most scientists won't admit that magic exists at all, and therefore don't see anything to cover up :lol:

But as for anti-gravitons, I remember from my reading on particle/quantum physics (when I was like 14 - been a while XD) that gravitons are merely theoretical. Perhaps a way to levitate that didn't require a theoretical particle would just be to do a working based on levitation - leave the science out of it :P Magic can do that, you know XD


[cydira,You say interesting things.Wish fulfillment?Well,you can call it that way.I said that not because I do not want to be shown real magic,but because I am in a situation right now,where it would really help.I'm stuck and really need a job that pays well,lucky people who have a lot of time in their hands can afford to take a higher stake.I want to get to the very essence of magic,especially the one I carry within me now.It's a long road I know,and as many people say it takes a long time.I wish it would not be like this,but I am working on to get better.But it is kind of difficult when you are a young woman in a men's country,where young especially are not allowed much perspective,and magic is publicly banned and information of sites or occult books are driven into the underground of very few knowledgeable or privileged ones.It's kind of difficult for me,when I have to fight this life,and wonder will I get to live tomorow? I really love magic,I feel it,I hear the music,but my rational side of me just want some reassurance,at least my life to fall in the right place,and leave me more time to progress.I am trying to build my first house,and I will make a hexagon or round room especially dedicated to magic,if people would like to help me with ideas,I will open a thread in the right section,when the time will come.]

Hmm...did you try looking for a job that pays well? That'd cut the magic right out of the equation :P But if it's fantastic, flashy levitations and fireballs you're looking for, that doesn't happen normally. It's more fantasy than reality - but only because no one alive has the power :)

~Jon :boing:

[cydira]

Can dark matter be magic or just scientists trying to push magic away,by inventing this ,so they would never have to admit they were wrong?I wonder if the force that holds the atoms toghter is magic?Another law?For example a really good levitation working is in fact conjuring anti gravitons.and would make you levitate?I saw Tibetan priests levitating for real.I wonder if the large particle collide machine they built,is in fact an attempt to tip-toe magic?

I believe if you are operating with the definition that magic is poorly understood science, dark matter could clearly qualify as an aspect of magic. I would also contend that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is magic along with quite a few other poorly understood and poorly described parts of theoretical physics.

As to the matter of gravitons and anti-gravitons, I'm not sure if levitation is conjuring anti-gravitons. It is an interesting theory and it would be most fascinating to see a study that approaches the question from this perspective. Unfortunately, I suspect that the resources for engaging in such a study would be difficult to find because of the bias within the scientific community against the 'paranormal'.

It's my opinion that building the LHC or similar equipment is not an effort to avoid magic, per se, but rather an attempt to study the fundamental basics of matter and energy. I believe that this is something that works hand in hand with any discussion of magic. It is, in my opinion, a step towards building an understanding why magic works and towards building a bridge between science and magic. I, however, take an unusual perspective on the whole thing it seems. *shrugs*


cydira,You say interesting things.

Why thank you! :)


Wish fulfillment?Well,you can call it that way.I said that not because I do not want to be shown real magic,but because I am in a situation right now,where it would really help.

Ah, I suspected it was something like that, but I wasn't sure. Some folks I know will toss a statement like that one you used out in an effort to "disprove" magic. I didn't think that was the case, but I wasn't sure.


I'm stuck and really need a job that pays well,lucky people who have a lot of time in their hands can afford to take a higher stake. I want to get to the very essence of magic,especially the one I carry within me now.

Ah, the job problem. I know how that can make things *very* difficult and stressful. It makes focusing on things like one's occult studies just about impossible because concerns over finances can take over your life, or at least it's done that to me in the past. I can appreciate how you view magic as a tool in resolving the problem and I do think it is one at your disposal. The question is how to convert the desire into action.


It's a long road I know,and as many people say it takes a long time. I wish it would not be like this,but I am working on to get better. But it is kind of difficult when you are a young woman in a men's country,where young especially are not allowed much perspective,and magic is publicly banned and information of sites or occult books are driven into the underground of very few knowledgeable or privileged ones.

It is a question of what your goals are with magic. Magic itself is not going to be something that requires something akin to 30 years of study to complete a spell and do so with a high success rate, in my opinion. I believe that there are different forms of magic that a person can use and the amount of effort and study for each varies.

I do understand the frustration that comes with being a young woman in a place where men seem to be consistently held up as better then you. I also do understand how difficult it is to learn things when the information is scarce and the topic itself is taboo. Having grown up in a small town where these kinds of attitudes prevailed and dealing with more then a little misogyny from my immediate family (long, sad, and maddening story there and WAAAAAY off topic), I can clearly identify with how you're feeling.

In a lot of ways, the thing that helps the most is to say (and truly believe) that the opinions of others with respect to who you are don't matter. I'm not exactly perfect at that, but once I decided that the only difference between a man and I was physiological and related to that, I suddenly found myself feeling a whole lot more confident. It helped a lot in resisting internalizing the whole 'women suck' attitude I found around me. Being able to resist the prevailing attitudes and the attempted effect of suppressing who you are is a very important survival tactic and I hope that you do find something that works for you.

It helps immeasurably because it removes the distraction of 'What if I get caught doing this? Everyone is going to think I'm crazy!' from your efforts. That right there makes magic a whole lot easier, in my opinion.


It's kind of difficult for me,when I have to fight this life,and wonder will I get to live tomorow? I really love magic,I feel it,I hear the music,but my rational side of me just want some reassurance,at least my life to fall in the right place,and leave me more time to progress.

First off, if you have concerns about your safety and well being, it is very important to address those before you address much else. If you're not safe, you don't have the luxury of time to study magic or do much else. My advice to you is first resolve the issues that are putting your safety at risk. This takes away the distractions that are hindering your efforts in other areas, such as finding better employment or studying the occult. When you have a safe place to live and food to eat, the rest becomes so much easier.

Something else to consider is that you may want to change your perspective on magic. In my experience, the hardest form of magic is that of self-transformation. My mother once called it the only true form of 'high-magic' that existed. Transforming yourself doesn't just have to refer to shape-shifting or something else equally exotic. It, more frequently, is changing your world-view and how you view yourself.

In this case, I would utilize the attraction that you feel for magic and your natural aptitude (which I believe is why you feel that attraction) to transform yourself. The mundane processes of finding a better job, building positive self-image, and meeting your needs for safety and well-being are part of the 'high-magic' of transformation. You are transforming yourself into a different person by a focused and deliberate act of will. One of the oldest definitions for magic in the modern occult and magical practitioner community is that.

I have a few ideas that may be helpful for you on the job situation. I'll send them to you via PM.


I am trying to build my first house,and I will make a hexagon or round room especially dedicated to magic,if people would like to help me with ideas,I will open a thread in the right section,when the time will come.

Oooh! Sounds like fun! I'd love to have a special spot set aside just for my magical studies. Alas, mine right now is a bookshelf holding my research and reference library and a box of supplies. :(

[trueseeker]

Well I don't think scientists are trying to cover up the truth with Dark Matter - most scientists won't admit that magic exists at all, and therefore don't see anything to cover up :lol:

But as for anti-gravitons, I remember from my reading on particle/quantum physics (when I was like 14 - been a while XD) that gravitons are merely theoretical. Perhaps a way to levitate that didn't require a theoretical particle would just be to do a working based on levitation - leave the science out of it :P Magic can do that, you know XD


Hmm...did you try looking for a job that pays well? That'd cut the magic right out of the equation :P But if it's fantastic, flashy levitations and fireballs you're looking for, that doesn't happen normally. It's more fantasy than reality - but only because no one alive has the power :)

~Jon :boing:

Not looking for flashy,and you must admit it would be cool,but fireballs would really have no practical peacefull use.But I look to push the boundaries...how far can you go?And saying that no one has the power and it's alive it's limiting.I beleive that everything is possible if you can imagine it,find a way to do it,you cannot do ,only if you cannot imagine.And reality is stranger than fiction...so you never know what can happen...
You say to leave science out of it,I won't because magic has it's own science and mechanics.A victory for if I could reach through it's methods to efficiently used all 100 per cent physical brain to it's utmost potency.Shape my life the way it makes me happy,but does not hurt anyone.Help others with their health by enhancing my natural given heling talent I have been dealing with since birth.That would be a life worth living in the dedication of magic.

[Burning Angel]

Not looking for flashy,and you must admit it would be cool,but fireballs would really have no practical peacefull use.But I look to push the boundaries...how far can you go?And saying that no one has the power and it's alive it's limiting.I beleive that everything is possible if you can imagine it,find a way to do it,you cannot do ,only if you cannot imagine.And reality is stranger than fiction...so you never know what can happen...
You say to leave science out of it,I won't because magic has it's own science and mechanics.A victory for if I could reach through it's methods to efficiently used all 100 per cent physical brain to it's utmost potency.Shape my life the way it makes me happy,but does not hurt anyone.Help others with their health by enhancing my natural given heling talent I have been dealing with since birth.That would be a life worth living in the dedication of magic.

I know fireballs have no natural peaceful use...but there are some people who need one up the tailpipe ;)

I mean "leave science out of it" like - don't do magic to create anti-gravitons, because the graviton may not even exist lol :P Instead, try doing magic to levitate yourself...cut out the middleman intent-wise. I'm a firm believer in a scientific, rigorous, disciplined approach to Magic :)

And yeah - if we could have orders like the Jedi Knights or the Archmages of Kirin Tor in WoW....people who dedicated themselves to aiding others and the study of Magic...the world would indeed be better. But I don't think anyone can quit their day job just yet - Magic isn't accepted enough for that to work :P

~Jon :boing:

[trueseeker]

I know fireballs have no natural peaceful use...but there are some people who need one up the tailpipe ;)

I mean "leave science out of it" like - don't do magic to create anti-gravitons, because the graviton may not even exist lol :P Instead, try doing magic to levitate yourself...cut out the middleman intent-wise. I'm a firm believer in a scientific, rigorous, disciplined approach to Magic :)

And yeah - if we could have orders like the Jedi Knights or the Archmages of Kirin Tor in WoW....people who dedicated themselves to aiding others and the study of Magic...the world would indeed be better. But I don't think anyone can quit their day job just yet - Magic isn't accepted enough for that to work :P

~Jon :boing:

Now well done to you!You said it!Pinned!
Do you levitate yourself?Also,I like that you said 'believer in a scientific, rigorous, disciplined approach to Magic' because that is what I am trying to do also,and I'm having a hard time answering correctly the avalanche of questions I have.I believe a disciplined study and a scientific research of Magic is required for successful experiment and magical endeavors.And i give a few hours from my time and dedicate it to study every single day.I would give up my daily job for this anytime soon if I would have a tangible proof and enough practice to arrange some annoying stuff in my life.A guild of mages does not seem so far fetched to me.I know there has been in ancient time a guild of alchemists.why wouldn't a guild of magic exist for real?Maybe it evenly existed in a past time.The concept exists,the materials are at hand,why shouldn't a couple of people work it out?To practice and experiment everything ,make a true profession,and then write the correct books with what works,and what doesn't work.That achievement would be fantastic.All the pagan community could benefit from that,it would mean spending less time in confusion,in blindness of wrong information or misleading texts.I am fed up with being concealed the truth.I want the truth.Deep down inside we all want the truth.And to see peices put together.

[Burning Angel]

Now well done to you!You said it!Pinned!
Do you levitate yourself?Also,I like that you said 'believer in a scientific, rigorous, disciplined approach to Magic' because that is what I am trying to do also,and I'm having a hard time answering correctly the avalanche of questions I have.I believe a disciplined study and a scientific research of Magic is required for successful experiment and magical endeavors.And i give a few hours from my time and dedicate it to study every single day.I would give up my daily job for this anytime soon if I would have a tangible proof and enough practice to arrange some annoying stuff in my life.A guild of mages does not seem so far fetched to me.I know there has been in ancient time a guild of alchemists.why wouldn't a guild of magic exist for real?Maybe it evenly existed in a past time.The concept exists,the materials are at hand,why shouldn't a couple of people work it out?To practice and experiment everything ,make a true profession,and then write the correct books with what works,and what doesn't work.That achievement would be fantastic.All the pagan community could benefit from that,it would mean spending less time in confusion,in blindness of wrong information or misleading texts.I am fed up with being concealed the truth.I want the truth.Deep down inside we all want the truth.And to see peices put together.

Hmmm...I think that the truth already exists in various places. It's not a hidden thing at all...but it does take work to put together. So it's up to you what to do with it :)

And yeah...magic as a profession doesn't happen yet. Not usually, anyway...I've never heard of someone in the western world making a living off of it :) Maybe you can be first!

~Jon :boing:

[Xx.TheUnforgiven.xX]

Sure - Magic is universal. For all we know, the beings we call Gods may actually be alien beings...yeah I stole that from a million science fiction shows, but what if?! All I hope is that the magical traditions of Earth will survive in our descendants among the stars :)

Also, seconded on the Universal Energy thing :)

~Jon :boing:

Like StarGate? lol, Yep, I think magic is universal! The 4 basic elements stay the same were ever you go. Keep that in minded.
Some magic is different, if that's what your asking. My mom foresaw people from another world coming here. Who knows?
~Mariah~

[Burning Angel]

Like StarGate? lol, Yep, I think magic is universal! The 4 basic elements stay the same were ever you go. Keep that in minded.
Some magic is different, if that's what your asking. My mom foresaw people from another world coming here. Who knows?
~Mariah~

A lot of people have foreseen aliens landing - it's bound to happen :)

However, druids have an Earth, Sea and Sky elemental structure, and Wicca adds a fifth element - Spirit. Perhaps in an alien culture, the four basic elements are completely non-existent :)

~Jon :boing:

[trueseeker]

How do you think real aliens look like?If they are enery spiritual beings,maybe you got one next to you.:))Seriously,I don't think I even agree with the word alien.And this big universe,even scientists say that humans are the only life around,for me it does not MAKE SENSE.Why such a big universe ,if there is not a life force,intelligent to value it ,besides planet Earth?And let's say for example,that in another part of the universe,there is a sun like Earth's sun,and a planet at the exact optimal distance,as Terra,wouldn't be that unlikely to hold and sustain intelligent beings?And magic?Maybe,right now,this very moment,there are beings wondering about us,as we wonder about their possible existence?Maybe they are in an isolated place,as our solar system is.and wondering 'Are we the only intelligent beings in the universe?'

[trueseeker]

My crazy magic in space idea does not seem so crazy now :))
Can we talk about this movies?

Explosions defying Einstein? - Death Star - BBC Horizon science
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYT9fFmWG4&NR=1

Also I found this video,and I got an idea...if energy creates mass,magician manipulates energy,magician creates mass?So those who say that is not possible,for example to create a tangible solid stone,are not correct.So energy creates matter,and matter and energy are interchangeable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6cbaMj883c&feature=channel

a new planet in the solar system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90TWpYkMj0I&feature=related

Because we have been talking here of black holes,I found something interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yMca0bFAdQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dETejWqeBs&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=E090089A407A57DD&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjzDJWD8k_U&feature=related

Who lives in the eleventh dimension?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7xRgfPjAI&feature=related

What do you think?

[Burning Angel]

My crazy magic in space idea does not seem so crazy now :))
Can we talk about this movies?

Explosions defying Einstein? - Death Star - BBC Horizon science
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZYT9fFmWG4&NR=1

Also I found this video,and I got an idea...if energy creates mass,magician manipulates energy,magician creates mass?So those who say that is not possible,for example to create a tangible solid stone,are not correct.So energy creates matter,and matter and energy are interchangeable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6cbaMj883c&feature=channel

a new planet in the solar system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90TWpYkMj0I&feature=related

Because we have been talking here of black holes,I found something interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yMca0bFAdQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dETejWqeBs&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=E090089A407A57DD&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjzDJWD8k_U&feature=related

Who lives in the eleventh dimension?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7xRgfPjAI&feature=related

What do you think?

Well I watched the first vid...just looking at the titles of the others I'm not sure what they have to do with magic. Some context would be cool on the first one, though....big explosions are very, very fun :jon:

~Jon :boing:

[~Belladonna~]

Magick is Universal so I don't see why not. However, seeing as we've only ever been to the Moon and never Mars, etc. then I suppose none of us know. Like I said though, I believe Magick is Universal so I reckon we could :)

[Burning Angel]

Magick is Universal so I don't see why not. However, seeing as we've only ever been to the Moon and never Mars, etc. then I suppose none of us know. Like I said though, I believe Magick is Universal so I reckon we could :)

Well, mages didn't go to the moon either XD We have multiple people on the board who have either UPG of a past life involving alien magic (Scott Hill) or who have drawn energy from beyond our planet in a working (Calli) - so I don't see why not :) Where there's energy there's magic :)

~Jon :boing: