Witchcraft Books

[David19]

I've been letting my Witchcraft studies slide for quite awhile, but, now, I want to get back into them, but, what books would you recommend on Witchcraft, hopefully non-Wiccan, as I already know of quite a few good ones for that, but, if there's a Wiccan book that's really good, please post it.

Also, rather than starting a new thread, I'll just ask it here, but, have you read Nigel Jackson's books, and, if so, are they good?, would you recommend them?, the reason I ask, is I was told by someone I respect (a Traditional Witch) that Jackson seems to be someone who plays to the crowd, I'll just post a bit of what I was told:


Nigel Jackson is a pop crowd player and nothing but. He makes no bones that he is writing and playing to the paying audience and will happily tell his audience whatever it wishes to hear, regardless of what he may have been saying yesterday. His first two books - Call of the Horned Piper and Masks of Misrule - consist mainly of taking dictation from Evan John Jones (who is the only cited source for his material) as he's since indicated that he has no understanding of any of the things or tales he's repeated there.

I've seen people recommend 'Call of the Horned Piper' and/or 'Masks of Misrule', but, now, I'm a bit unsure if I'd like to get them, are there better books out there?.

Thanks for any help and/or advice you can give me.

[green aventurine]

I think I saw some stuff on mystic wicks dark the other day although it might have been an old thread, David.

[David19]

Thanks, I'll check it out :).

David.

[green aventurine]

There's one thread in book discussions called recommended reading list that seems to have bits and pieces -- I haven't read any of those books, myself, but at some point I might have to check some of them out.

[sleepycat]

There's another thread like this somewhere...
2 books:
Ritual by Emma Restall Orr
The Mist-Filled Path by Frank MacEowen
(both are Celtic influenced , but I'm a Celt, so... )

[green aventurine]

Did you find the books, David? I was just listening to one of the hoodoo podcasts - I thought it was quite interesting.

[David19]

Yes, I found it, is this the thread (http://mwdark.com/showthread.php?t=8844) you were thinking of?, there are some cool recommendations in there, and, thanks for those 2 recommendations, sleepycat, I'll look them up.

Also, green aventurine, I found the Lucky Mojo Podcasts (http://hoodoorootwork.blogspot.com) too, and, while I haven't listened to them yet, they sound very cool.

[green aventurine]

Yes, that was the thread. I've seen another thread as well on here that had loads of books on witchcraft as well. Hang on...

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=211397

[Ben Gruagach]

Deerwoman posted a good list of books in this thread: http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=211397

Edited to add: Oops! green aventurine (http://mysticwicks.com/member.php?u=32405) beat me to posting that link.

I'll mention then that there is a new book just out by Jeanette Ellis called "Forbidden Rites: Your Complete Introduction to Traditional Witchcraft." I just got a copy from Amazon. I don't know if it's any good or not though. The author has been involved in witchcraft for decades in the UK and has been a prominent organizer for various public Pagan events.

And you might find some other recommendations at http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/

[green aventurine]

Deerwoman posted a good list of books in this thread: http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=211397

Edited to add: Oops! green aventurine (http://mysticwicks.com/member.php?u=32405) beat me to posting that link.

that's okay. it was worth mentioning twice, it was a good link :)

[David19]

Yes, that was the thread. I've seen another thread as well on here that had loads of books on witchcraft as well. Hang on...

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=211397

Thanks, I actually went to that thread before, it is quite good :) :thumbsup:.


Deerwoman posted a good list of books in this thread: http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=211397

Edited to add: Oops! green aventurine (http://mysticwicks.com/member.php?u=32405) beat me to posting that link.

I'll mention then that there is a new book just out by Jeanette Ellis called "Forbidden Rites: Your Complete Introduction to Traditional Witchcraft." I just got a copy from Amazon. I don't know if it's any good or not though. The author has been involved in witchcraft for decades in the UK and has been a prominent organizer for various public Pagan events.

And you might find some other recommendations at http://www.traditionalwitchcraft.net/

Thanks for those links, I'm a member of Traditional Witchcraft Forums, and there's some cool topics discussed there, and I'll check out that book, it sounds quite interesting.

[Seshata]

I'd suggest to save your money on Ellis' book and buy something else. Unfortunately she's not all that her 'blurb' makes her out to be. Her 'Traditional' is really a mishmash of a variety of wicca with some other bits which certainly are not traditional. I remember many years ago being invited to an open ritual where I stood and frankly cringed as said Lady pretended to be 'in trance' (I have yet to understand what there is 'Traditional' about the Morrighan being sung 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star').

A variety of people have now reviewed her book, from Wiccan and Traditional Craft backgrounds and they are in agreement. Thankfully not too many of these books were printed.

BB

Seshata

[Ben Gruagach]

I'd suggest to save your money on Ellis' book and buy something else. Unfortunately she's not all that her 'blurb' makes her out to be. Her 'Traditional' is really a mishmash of a variety of wicca with some other bits which certainly are not traditional. I remember many years ago being invited to an open ritual where I stood and frankly cringed as said Lady pretended to be 'in trance' (I have yet to understand what there is 'Traditional' about the Morrighan being sung 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star').

A variety of people have now reviewed her book, from Wiccan and Traditional Craft backgrounds and they are in agreement. Thankfully not too many of these books were printed.

BB

Seshata

I completely agree. I got a copy of the book and have to admit was rather disappointed. It really is just a mishmash of Wicca and other magickal techniques with the label "traditional" slapped onto it.

It's an OK book for people who are looking for what is basically a book of shadows written by a practitioner who has their own eclectic Wiccan-inspired practice. It's not going to satisfy people looking for solid history or a glimpse into pre-Gardnerian witchcraft though.

[Seshata]

I completely agree. I got a copy of the book and have to admit was rather disappointed. It really is just a mishmash of Wicca and other magickal techniques with the label "traditional" slapped onto it.

It's an OK book for people who are looking for what is basically a book of shadows written by a practitioner who has their own eclectic Wiccan-inspired practice. It's not going to satisfy people looking for solid history or a glimpse into pre-Gardnerian witchcraft though.

I think that the main problem lies in that this is being publicised as a 'Traditional Irish Witchcraft' book, indicating that the practices are pre-Gardnerian. As you have discovered this book is nothing like that and as a friend said to me when they spotted it - 'it should be done under the trade descriptions act!'.

Why can't people just say, here's a book that I've written about stuff that works for me which I've made into a system to work within a group but it's not Traditional, I was inspired by Doreen Valiente etc and it's a Neo-Wicca thing?

With regards to proofreading which I was discussing with some friends, I feel that maybe there was so much to fix that the proofreader just gave up!

To be honest, I also felt that any Trad Witch would also go for a subtler cover.

Ahh well, thankfully I think only a 100 or so copies of this book have been printed.

Errrm I'm not sure what you mean by stating that she's been involved for decades.. The event she runs (2 per year) was actually handed to her by Shan from House of the Goddess who ran events before her. She did not get inspired which I think she states in her book. She used to say that a random Irish couple spotted her and her then other half whilst they were on holiday in Southern Ireland and came up to her and without a by your leave told her she needed to be Initiated.. hmm Unfortunately there's been quite a bit of creativity with her telling her story.

BB

Seshata

[Ben Gruagach]

Errrm I'm not sure what you mean by stating that she's been involved for decades.. The event she runs (2 per year) was actually handed to her by Shan from House of the Goddess who ran events before her. She did not get inspired which I think she states in her book. She used to say that a random Irish couple spotted her and her then other half whilst they were on holiday in Southern Ireland and came up to her and without a by your leave told her she needed to be Initiated.. hmm Unfortunately there's been quite a bit of creativity with her telling her story.

BB

Seshata

As I don't live in the UK I was merely going on the info I had heard about her online. I had heard she had been actively practicing witchcraft since the 1980s -- which means yes, she has been involved with witchcraft for decades. (She says in her book she "officially" became a witch in 1986.)

She says in her book that she came up with the idea of the Halloween Bash and the Beltane Bash. This year's Halloween Bash is their 14th one (according to the event's details listed at http://www.paganfestivals.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34&Itemid=61 ) If Ellis is telling the truth that she was involved with the Halloween Bash from the start (whether she personally was responsible or not) that still means she's been doing that event for 14 years this year.

So regardless whether we agree with her claims about "traditional" witchcraft or not, we do have to give her credit for being publicly involved
with holding witchcraft events for over a decade and being involved with witchcraft for over two decades as a practitioner.

[Seshata]

As I don't live in the UK I was merely going on the info I had heard about her online. I had heard she had been actively practicing witchcraft since the 1980s -- which means yes, she has been involved with witchcraft for decades. (She says in her book she "officially" became a witch in 1986.)

My apologies, of course if you're not in the UK and haven't been about there for a good number of years and in London you of course can't know all the ins and outs of this. I don't state (I don't think) that she isn't involved in witchcraft of some form, however, she certainly isn't and wasn't Initiated into an Irish Traditional Family trad or anything like that. In fact, in one of those situations where you meet a variety of people, I have personally met those who started her group with her, of course again, like what she has written in her book, you only have my word to go on that.


She says in her book that she came up with the idea of the Halloween Bash and the Beltane Bash. This year's Halloween Bash is their 14th one (according to the event's details listed at http://www.paganfestivals.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34&Itemid=61 ) If Ellis is telling the truth that she was involved with the Halloween Bash from the start (whether she personally was responsible or not) that still means she's been doing that event for 14 years this year.
So regardless whether we agree with her claims about "traditional" witchcraft or not, we do have to give her credit for being publicly involved
with holding witchcraft events for over a decade and being involved with witchcraft for over two decades as a practitioner.

She may have come up with the name 'Beltane Bash' and 'Halloween Bash' but if Shan from the House of the Goddess hadn't have got talking to her and asked her whether she'd like to do events in her place, these possibly wouldn't have started, well they might not have started at this early point. The idea wasn't hers, there were already established events, Shan wanted to pursue other things and had been running her events for a good while. Sadly, nowadays since Ellis and her partner split up the events are a mere shadow of themselves and attendance has dropped drastically. However much one might be at the forefront of running events one thing none of us (especially those of us who may run events) must forget is that we are only as good as our team and of course our last event.

With regards to her background as a practitioner, I think I best keep my silence as to the quality of the teaching that is supplied to those who are taught. The above are not just my thoughts but also taken from talking to Elders of various traditions, after all I have only been involved and was Initiated about 16 yrs ago, whilst I have had the great fortune to be able to meet through my Initiator people who have been involved in their various paths and traditions for over 30 odd yrs.

I continue to learn (thankfully), but am more and more disheartened when I see situations like this.

On a more positive note, I have just taken a quick look at 'Craft of the Wise' by Vikki Bramshaw - O Books and now feel better about books done by this publisher. I will certainly be recommending this book for those starting out on their studies and who are interested in a Wica inspired path.

BB

Seshata

[Ben Gruagach]

On a more positive note, I have just taken a quick look at 'Craft of the Wise' by Vikki Bramshaw - O Books and now feel better about books done by this publisher. I will certainly be recommending this book for those starting out on their studies and who are interested in a Wica inspired path.


I've ordered a copy of Vikki Bramshaw's book but haven't received it yet. I'm under the impression that it is specifically about Wicca.

I wish there were more books on witchcraft other than Wicca! In particular, ones about historical practice as well as how modern witches (not Wiccans) practice. Plus more books about Dianic witchcraft, hedge and kitchen witchcraft, etc. And something like Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon" but covering non-Wiccan witchcraft is sorely needed.

Edited to add: Too many books out currently claiming to be "traditional" witchcraft are really just Wicca-inspired eclectic modern systems, or else inspired by Robert Cochrane (who has yet to be proven to have anything like a pre-Gardnerian lineage -- alas, he's just a creative guy who competed with Wicca for the witchcraft label.) The closest thing I've seen have been things like "The Black Books of Elverum" and things that are not labelled witchcraft, like Catherine Yronwode's "Hoodoo Herb and Root Magic."

[Seshata]

Here is an uptodate correction on


She may have come up with the name 'Beltane Bash' and 'Halloween Bash' but if Shan from the House of the Goddess hadn't have got talking to her and asked her whether she'd like to do events in her place, these possibly wouldn't have started, well they might not have started at this early point. The idea wasn't hers, there were already established events, Shan wanted to pursue other things and had been running her events for a good while.

I mentioned what I had typed to you regarding the events to someone who has been in Craft for much, much longer than myself. I was corrected on some slightly erroneous info I gave above. The events that Shan held were called the Halloween Festival. Ellis only got involved once a couple of Shan's Initiates convinced her to take the already arranged festivals before it occurred (all the speakers, entertainment etc were already in place). On correction to my comment where I thought that Shan wanted to pursue other things, actually the real situation is that Shan was ill and unable to continue doing the events. Shan's two Initiates then worked with Ellis for a while, again another two who were there in the early days and can correct alot of the issues with this book, and after working with her magically and with the events for many years, went their own way. Pentacle Magazine used to provide helpers for the event (sadly they were never thanked for their help) but they now refuse to do so due to the fact that it is nowadays purely a money-making enterprise. Not necessarily a problem per se, but certainly is if speakers aren't paid, cancelled the night before they speak (only finding out by checking out the site), then being re-instated to speak on the day 15 mins before the speaker's train (too late for the speaker to get it and not contacting the speaker on either of these occasions - it is up on a public area for all to see), and the fact that many speakers are not charging because they think that the money from the event still is going to payment for a Pagan woodland which Ellis no longer owns, it now being held in trust for the wider Pagan community by her ex-partner and his family.

The attendance at the events have now dropped drastically to less than 100 attendees over 2 days.

LOL just been rapped on the knuckles by my Initiator.. he reminded me of some Elders that I've met who have been involved for 50 odd yrs! Ohh My bad! ROFL

Sorry to add all the above, but again, I think it might be of importance to clarify these points for those who don't live over on this side of the pond so that you can understand why many are so negative at present with the book which many feel is misrepresenting so many things and also placing the writer on a self created pedestal.


I wish there were more books on witchcraft other than Wicca! In particular, ones about historical practice as well as how modern witches (not Wiccans) practice.

There are quite a few books on 'Witchcraft History', such things as records of "witch trials" which are interesting to show those that only viewed those accused of witchcraft as being female as there being reasonable quantities of males in some countries focussed upon.. Of course whether any of them were 'witches' is disputable.

BB

Seshata

[Ben Gruagach]

There are quite a few books on 'Witchcraft History', such things as records of "witch trials" which are interesting to show those that only viewed those accused of witchcraft as being female as there being reasonable quantities of males in some countries focussed upon.. Of course whether any of them were 'witches' is disputable.


Accounts of witch trials have the enormous drawback of being based on antagonistic (and often mislead) testimony. What I'd love to see but doubt will ever come to light are more in the line of "The Black Books of Elverum" -- books written by practitioners meant for themselves or other practitioners.

[Seshata]

I do think that many of the current books on the subject of the various Witch trials in many countries are much more balanced than they used to be. I found 'Beyond the Witch Trials' and 'Witchcraft continued' eds De Blecourt & Davies to be fascinating. I doubt that many of the texts that you mention will be found.

BB

Seshata

[brymble]

I wish there were more books on witchcraft other than Wicca! In particular, ones about historical practice as well as how modern witches (not Wiccans) practice. Plus more books about Dianic witchcraft, hedge and kitchen witchcraft, etc. And something like Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon" but covering non-Wiccan witchcraft is sorely needed.


I love that tradtitional witchcraft forum. I haven't been back in awhile, since my son started having some serious problems with asthma it sort of slipped my mind, and now I'm afraid of having my membership pulled for not posting regularly enough. The only negative thing I have to say about the site is that it can be a bit chilly.

Green, cottage and "hedge-witchery" seems to be the new black for witches at the moment. I have an interest in hedge-craft, but I have to admit my heart sank when SRW jumped on that bandwagon. Well, there goes the neighborhood! I'd like to see more material, but not at the expense of quality...or dignity!

I find traditional witchcraft to be interesting, because it gives more understanding of the roots of folk practice, which strongly appeals to me as an artist as much as a practitioner. However, I do not and will not claim to practice traditionalist anything, because quite frankly I've observed "traditionalism" can often get as screwed up as "eclectism", and often for the same reasons.

The problems I have with traditionalism of is when the pendulum swings too far the other way, and it quickly becomes fixed and stagnant, and unfortunately, elitist, often ending up becoming about being "Right" and rigid attachment to form rather than about getting the job done effectively, and about being "alive" as a practice. When the form gets too rigid, it doesn't "breathe".

And whether "traditional" is being used correctly or simply as a backlash against "fluffy" mass-market Wicca (or, for that matter, hedge-craft), it seems that there is often more emphasis placed on what "traditionalism" is not than what it is. While I'm sure the intent of all that negative clarification is good, it really doesn't help the confusion any, and the rigidity and defensiveness can be very off-putting.

Furthermore, in many books and other resources for Pagans, witches, and magickal practitioners, I have to scratch my head in wonder at the tendency (again, whether "traditional" or "eclectic"; it doesn't matter if they've become fixed and polarized) to put the weight of one's energy on what other practitioners (or religions) are doing or thinking or not doing or thinking, and whether or not someone is "wrong", than on one's own practice. Someone wearing their traditionalism like a badge and bitching about being irritated by "fluffy bunnies" is just as off as someone acting like a "fluffy bunny" and complaining about "stodgy" traditionalism because they're still other-focused, rather than actually practicing their own craft, whichever form it takes.

I think in forming a personal practice, it's important to acknowledge and respect the traditional, without necessarily being bound to it or limited by form. Unless of course, those limitations are consciously chosen to serve a specific purpose. Attachment to form for no other purpose than That Is Just How It Is Done, or worse, simply because it is the "Right" Way (as opposed to the way that is right) isn't any better than an air-headed obsession with whatever pretty sparkly "witchy" image is most fashionable at the moment, without any real work or awareness behind it.

Both extremes are still more concerned with form rather than substance. I think that's what I'm getting at.

The books I'd like to see are books that acknowledge that fact. Unfortunately, substance doesn't seem to be very marketable, and marketability is what gets books published more often than content. So even though there are a lot of books I'd love to see, I think the above rants illustrate why even good books are no replacement for practice and community.

[green aventurine]

The problems I have with traditionalism of is when the pendulum swings too far the other way, and it quickly becomes fixed and stagnant, and unfortunately, elitist, often ending up becoming about being "Right" and rigid attachment to form rather than about getting the job done effectively, and about being "alive" as a practice. When the form gets too rigid, it doesn't "breathe".

And whether "traditional" is being used correctly or simply as a backlash against "fluffy" mass-market Wicca (or, for that matter, hedge-craft), it seems that there is often more emphasis placed on what "traditionalism" is not than what it is. While I'm sure the intent of all that negative clarification is good, it really doesn't help the confusion any, and the rigidity and defensiveness can be very off-putting.

Furthermore, in many books and other resources for Pagans, witches, and magickal practitioners, I have to scratch my head in wonder at the tendency (again, whether "traditional" or "eclectic"; it doesn't matter if they've become fixed and polarized) to put the weight of one's energy on what other practitioners (or religions) are doing or thinking or not doing or thinking, and whether or not someone is "wrong", than on one's own practice. Someone wearing their traditionalism like a badge and bitching about being irritated by "fluffy bunnies" is just as off as someone acting like a "fluffy bunny" and complaining about "stodgy" traditionalism because they're still other-focused, rather than actually practicing their own craft, whichever form it takes.

I think in forming a personal practice, it's important to acknowledge and respect the traditional, without necessarily being bound to it or limited by form. Unless of course, those limitations are consciously chosen to serve a specific purpose. Attachment to form for no other purpose than That Is Just How It Is Done, or worse, simply because it is the "Right" Way (as opposed to the way that is right) isn't any better than an air-headed obsession with whatever pretty sparkly "witchy" image is most fashionable at the moment, without any real work or awareness behind it.

Both extremes are still more concerned with form rather than substance. I think that's what I'm getting at.


yeah. I think this is a good post and I'd be inclined to go along with it as it seems in line with my experiences and thoughts although I can only base them on Internet explorations as I work by myself.

[Ben Gruagach]

I love that tradtitional witchcraft forum. I haven't been back in awhile, since my son started having some serious problems with asthma it sort of slipped my mind, and now I'm afraid of having my membership pulled for not posting regularly enough. The only negative thing I have to say about the site is that it can be a bit chilly.

Green, cottage and "hedge-witchery" seems to be the new black for witches at the moment. I have an interest in hedge-craft, but I have to admit my heart sank when SRW jumped on that bandwagon. Well, there goes the neighborhood! I'd like to see more material, but not at the expense of quality...or dignity!

I find traditional witchcraft to be interesting, because it gives more understanding of the roots of folk practice, which strongly appeals to me as an artist as much as a practitioner. However, I do not and will not claim to practice traditionalist anything, because quite frankly I've observed "traditionalism" can often get as screwed up as "eclectism", and often for the same reasons.

The problems I have with traditionalism of is when the pendulum swings too far the other way, and it quickly becomes fixed and stagnant, and unfortunately, elitist, often ending up becoming about being "Right" and rigid attachment to form rather than about getting the job done effectively, and about being "alive" as a practice. When the form gets too rigid, it doesn't "breathe".

And whether "traditional" is being used correctly or simply as a backlash against "fluffy" mass-market Wicca (or, for that matter, hedge-craft), it seems that there is often more emphasis placed on what "traditionalism" is not than what it is. While I'm sure the intent of all that negative clarification is good, it really doesn't help the confusion any, and the rigidity and defensiveness can be very off-putting.

Furthermore, in many books and other resources for Pagans, witches, and magickal practitioners, I have to scratch my head in wonder at the tendency (again, whether "traditional" or "eclectic"; it doesn't matter if they've become fixed and polarized) to put the weight of one's energy on what other practitioners (or religions) are doing or thinking or not doing or thinking, and whether or not someone is "wrong", than on one's own practice. Someone wearing their traditionalism like a badge and bitching about being irritated by "fluffy bunnies" is just as off as someone acting like a "fluffy bunny" and complaining about "stodgy" traditionalism because they're still other-focused, rather than actually practicing their own craft, whichever form it takes.

I think in forming a personal practice, it's important to acknowledge and respect the traditional, without necessarily being bound to it or limited by form. Unless of course, those limitations are consciously chosen to serve a specific purpose. Attachment to form for no other purpose than That Is Just How It Is Done, or worse, simply because it is the "Right" Way (as opposed to the way that is right) isn't any better than an air-headed obsession with whatever pretty sparkly "witchy" image is most fashionable at the moment, without any real work or awareness behind it.

Both extremes are still more concerned with form rather than substance. I think that's what I'm getting at.

The books I'd like to see are books that acknowledge that fact. Unfortunately, substance doesn't seem to be very marketable, and marketability is what gets books published more often than content. So even though there are a lot of books I'd love to see, I think the above rants illustrate why even good books are no replacement for practice and community.

If we were voting, I'd say this was THE BEST POST OF THE MONTH! (I can't give you more karma points right now until I spread them around to other people first -- and I wanted to thank you for being so eloquent in putting things in perspective.)

[David19]

I'd suggest to save your money on Ellis' book and buy something else. Unfortunately she's not all that her 'blurb' makes her out to be. Her 'Traditional' is really a mishmash of a variety of wicca with some other bits which certainly are not traditional. I remember many years ago being invited to an open ritual where I stood and frankly cringed as said Lady pretended to be 'in trance' (I have yet to understand what there is 'Traditional' about the Morrighan being sung 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star').

A variety of people have now reviewed her book, from Wiccan and Traditional Craft backgrounds and they are in agreement. Thankfully not too many of these books were printed.

BB

Seshata


I completely agree. I got a copy of the book and have to admit was rather disappointed. It really is just a mishmash of Wicca and other magickal techniques with the label "traditional" slapped onto it.

It's an OK book for people who are looking for what is basically a book of shadows written by a practitioner who has their own eclectic Wiccan-inspired practice. It's not going to satisfy people looking for solid history or a glimpse into pre-Gardnerian witchcraft though.

I also agree with you 2, 'cause, I recently found it in a occult bookstore over here, and, remembered it was recommended, I flicked through it, and, wasn't too impressed with it, so, I put back on the shelf.