True Hellenic Recon Sites

[Twinkle]

While there is another link that shows a bunch of "Hellenic" (and I use that term loosely) sites, there are actually very few whose focus is solely on Hellenismos - the authentic Traditional Religion of the Ancients. While the other sites listed on the other thread may have Recons that post on them, they are not solely Reconstructionist in focus.

Since this *is* the Recon subforum, below are sites that are strictly Reconstructionist it topic, discussion, and focus:

Hellenismos.us
http://hellenismos.us/f/YaBB.pl


Elaion - Robert Clark is a virtual plethora of information, insight, and is a true Hellenic Recon.
http://elaion.org/


The Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes
http://www.ysee.gr/index-eng.php

[Kadynas]

I find it hard to believe that Hellenion isn't "Recon-enough" to make it onto the list. :lol:

But just some words to the wise... as true now as they were then:
"An Important Note: No one speaks for the entire world community of Hellenes (including the author of this FAQ!), nor is there any central religious body that dictates dogma, ritual, or membership requirements. Hellenic religion was, and remains, pluralistic in the extreme. Therefore, not everyone who worships the ancient Greek gods will agree with every detail of what follows. That is as it should be, and need not be a cause for concern or ill will."
http://web.archive.org/web/20020609210443/http://www.nomos-arkhaios.org/faq.htm

Someone's disagreement with your "Big 3" up there - however tiny that disagreement may be - does not mean they are not just as "True" a Recon as you and your friends.

And for the record, I AM a Recon, and have every bit as much right to post my opinion here as anyone else. :)

[BryonMorrigan]

http://mysticwicks.com/images/misc/attention.gif Smartass Mode

I'm certain that, by referring to "Hellenismos," you must be referring to the Neoplatonic Eclecticist Polytheism of the Emperor Julian, who coined that term.


"You're not a Recon!"

"I'm the real Recon!"

"I know you are, but what am I?"




And for the record...I AM NOT a Recon, and have every bit as much right to post nonsense here as anyone else. :mmm:

Lighten up, Recons.

[Twinkle]

I find it hard to believe that Hellenion isn't "Recon-enough" to make it onto the list. :lol:

But just some words to the wise... as true now as they were then:
"An Important Note: No one speaks for the entire world community of Hellenes (including the author of this FAQ!), nor is there any central religious body that dictates dogma, ritual, or membership requirements. Hellenic religion was, and remains, pluralistic in the extreme. Therefore, not everyone who worships the ancient Greek gods will agree with every detail of what follows. That is as it should be, and need not be a cause for concern or ill will."
http://web.archive.org/web/20020609210443/http://www.nomos-arkhaios.org/faq.htm

Someone's disagreement with your "Big 3" up there - however tiny that disagreement may be - does not mean they are not just as "True" a Recon as you and your friends.

And for the record, I AM a Recon, and have every bit as much right to post my opinion here as anyone else. :)


With all due respect - Hellenion is in the middle of a rewrite and a revamping. Until we know what the mission statement is and what it is they are attempting to do - I left it off.

No one here is speaking for all Recons. What I am doing is giving people in the Recon Subforum links to purely Recon websites.

I make no apologies for listing Hellenic Recon sites in the Hellenic Recon Subforum. It's not about who is "Recon enough", only if they are Recon, or not.

[Phoenix Blue]

And for the record...I AM NOT a Recon, and have every bit as much right to post nonsense here as anyone else.
This is only true if you agree to abide by the rules of the forum. Telling Recons to "lighten up" and other smartass behavior is disrespectful and will be handled accordingly. If you want to have continued access to the Recon Paths forums, you'll treat your hosts with a bit more respect.

[Erebos]

http://mysticwicks.com/images/misc/attention.gif Smartass Mode

I'm certain that, by referring to "Hellenismos," you must be referring to the Neoplatonic Eclecticist Polytheism of the Emperor Julian, who coined that term.

:lol: That gave me a giggle. That's one of the reasons I don't like that term, as what Julian was doing was different than traditional Hellenic polytheism. That and I just don't care for Neoplatonism or Plato, in general. I like bits and pieces of Aristotle, but most of his work is rather dense and hard to read without falling asleep.

Anyway, Hellenic recon sites I like are:

Temenos Theon: http://kyrene.4t.com/index.html

A good article about household worship: http://www.labrys.gr/index.php?l=householdworship#21

There used to be a good website called "Sponde", but it doesn't seem to exist anymore.

I like Elaion, although not all Hellenic polytheists agree with their positions on certain things, such as magic and "occultism." Magic wasn't part of organized cult worship, but it was used in private for things such as charms, amulets and talismans. It's not accurate to say magic wasn't part of the Hellenic worldview at all, it just wasn't necessarily religious. Plato considered it to be hubristic, but he also disapproved homosexuality and sexuality in general, considering lust to be a distraction from what was pure, like intellectual knowledge, and friendship between men. His views weren't exactly mainstream in Hellenic society, as eromenos-erastes relationships existed, as well as prostitutes, and folk magical practices.

[David19]

:lol: That gave me a giggle. That's one of the reasons I don't like that term, as what Julian was doing was different than traditional Hellenic polytheism. That and I just don't care for Neoplatonism or Plato, in general. I like bits and pieces of Aristotle, but most of his work is rather dense and hard to read without falling asleep.

Anyway, Hellenic recon sites I like are:

Temenos Theon: http://kyrene.4t.com/index.html

A good article about household worship: http://www.labrys.gr/index.php?l=householdworship#21

There used to be a good website called "Sponde", but it doesn't seem to exist anymore.

I like Elaion, although not all Hellenic polytheists agree with their positions on certain things, such as magic and "occultism." Magic wasn't part of organized cult worship, but it was used in private for things such as charms, amulets and talismans. It's not accurate to say magic wasn't part of the Hellenic worldview at all, it just wasn't necessarily religious. Plato considered it to be hubristic, but he also disapproved homosexuality and sexuality in general, considering lust to be a distraction from what was pure, like intellectual knowledge, and friendship between men. His views weren't exactly mainstream in Hellenic society, as eromenos-erastes relationships existed, as well as prostitutes, and folk magical practices.

You can still access the Sponde website through the way back when machine:

Hands On Hellenism (http://web.archive.org/web/20080622064619/http://sponde.suneagle.info/)

It seems to be a good resource.

If you don't mind me asking, what does eromenos-erastes mean?.

As for homosexuality, in one book that I've got ('Homosexuality in Greece and Rome: A Sourcebook of Basic Documents' by Thomas K. Hubbard (http://www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Greece-Rome-Sourcebook-Documents/dp/0520234308), which is really great BTW, although I haven't finished it yet), it says that there were certain areas of cities where it was known homosexuals frequented, and that there were signs a man might use to show he was gay or wanted male sex (I think it was scratching his nose or something), apparantly, in plays, those that were known homosexuals (i.e. never married, had kids, etc) were the target of jokes. In a lot of ways, it's similar to some areas of the world now, even in Western societies, and seems to be similar to Britain before homosexuality was made legal.

Anyway, sorry to get OT, but, I hope you like the Sponde link I posted :).

[Erebos]

You can still access the Sponde website through the way back when machine:

Hands On Hellenism (http://web.archive.org/web/20080622064619/http://sponde.suneagle.info/)

It seems to be a good resource.

Oh, marvelous. Thanks.


If you don't mind me asking, what does eromenos-erastes mean?.

"Eromenos" means "beloved" and "erastes" means something like "the one who loves". It was basically a relationship where an older man (erastes) would mentor a young boy (eromenos) who had not yet begun to grow a beard, and these were often sexual relationships.


As for homosexuality, in one book that I've got ('Homosexuality in Greece and Rome: A Sourcebook of Basic Documents' by Thomas K. Hubbard (http://www.amazon.com/Homosexuality-Greece-Rome-Sourcebook-Documents/dp/0520234308), which is really great BTW, although I haven't finished it yet), it says that there were certain areas of cities where it was known homosexuals frequented, and that there were signs a man might use to show he was gay or wanted male sex (I think it was scratching his nose or something), apparantly, in plays, those that were known homosexuals (i.e. never married, had kids, etc) were the target of jokes. In a lot of ways, it's similar to some areas of the world now, even in Western societies, and seems to be similar to Britain before homosexuality was made legal.

Sexuality in ancient Greece is one of my favorite topics. In ancient Greece, it wasn't immanently *wrong* for a man to have sex with another man, but there were social conventions that had to be followed. Basically, there were male citizens, and there was everyone else (women, slaves, prostitutes, foreigners, boys who had not yet come of age), and so a citizen was able to have sex with whomever he liked as long as it didn't infringe on someone else's property (like sleeping with someone else's wife or virgin daughter, which were punishable by death). A citizen could have sex with another male as long as he didn't take the passive/feminine role, which was considered degarding and he could lose his citizenship for that in Athens. A boy could take the passive role (as a "bottom" in modern terminology :p) before he came of age, but as soon as he became a full citizen of the polis, he could only act as "the man" (top) when it came to sexual acts.

The ancient Greeks didn't really have the concept of sexual orientation. It was just seen as the right thing to do to marry a woman for the purpose of producing children, and if a man wanted to have sex with other men (male prostitutes, slaves, or his eromenos, but NOT another citizen), that was perfectly fine. I don't know if they would have mocked men for being homosexuals in plays, as I think it would be more about mocking men who acted like women, since labels of sexual orientation didn't really exist. It was quite taboo for a man to behave like a woman, as females were considered vastly inferior.

[Fiamma]

You can still access the Sponde website through the way back when machine:

Hands On Hellenism (http://web.archive.org/web/20080622064619/http://sponde.suneagle.info/)

It seems to be a good resource.


The site was redone, it now appears here: http://www.sponde.us/

[Erebos]

The site was redone, it now appears here: http://www.sponde.us/

Bookmarked :)

[David19]

Oh, marvelous. Thanks.

No problem :).




"Eromenos" means "beloved" and "erastes" means something like "the one who loves". It was basically a relationship where an older man (erastes) would mentor a young boy (eromenos) who had not yet begun to grow a beard, and these were often sexual relationships.


Thanks for telling me :).




Sexuality in ancient Greece is one of my favorite topics. In ancient Greece, it wasn't immanently *wrong* for a man to have sex with another man, but there were social conventions that had to be followed. Basically, there were male citizens, and there was everyone else (women, slaves, prostitutes, foreigners, boys who had not yet come of age), and so a citizen was able to have sex with whomever he liked as long as it didn't infringe on someone else's property (like sleeping with someone else's wife or virgin daughter, which were punishable by death). A citizen could have sex with another male as long as he didn't take the passive/feminine role, which was considered degarding and he could lose his citizenship for that in Athens. A boy could take the passive role (as a "bottom" in modern terminology :p) before he came of age, but as soon as he became a full citizen of the polis, he could only act as "the man" (top) when it came to sexual acts.

The ancient Greeks didn't really have the concept of sexual orientation. It was just seen as the right thing to do to marry a woman for the purpose of producing children, and if a man wanted to have sex with other men (male prostitutes, slaves, or his eromenos, but NOT another citizen), that was perfectly fine. I don't know if they would have mocked men for being homosexuals in plays, as I think it would be more about mocking men who acted like women, since labels of sexual orientation didn't really exist. It was quite taboo for a man to behave like a woman, as females were considered vastly inferior.

I've read that before too, I think the book said, or hinted anyway, that the types of guys that were mocked were, to use modern words, camp. Ancient Greece/Hellas, like all ancient cultures, seemed to have been very masculine oriented.

I have been told, by people I respect, that there ceremonies were performed for same-sex couples which were, basically, the equivalent of marriages, different Gods were called upon to bless the union, it would have been a different ceremony to that of heterosexual couples, but, it was basically a union (there's also evidence the early Christians performed similar same-sex marriage rites!, John Boswell, a scholar, talks about this).

Personally, I know people do say ancient cultures didn't have a word for gay or lesbian, or even straight, and while the word homosexual or gay only came about a few hundred years ago (or something like that?), I do think there were always gay people in every culture, people who were only attracted to the same-sex, or those that were born in the wrong body (Trans people). It's not like we're a "recent invention".


The site was redone, it now appears here: http://www.sponde.us/

Thanks for telling me, it looks good :).

[Erebos]

Personally, I know people do say ancient cultures didn't have a word for gay or lesbian, or even straight, and while the word homosexual or gay only came about a few hundred years ago (or something like that?), I do think there were always gay people in every culture, people who were only attracted to the same-sex, or those that were born in the wrong body (Trans people). It's not like we're a "recent invention"..

That's true, queer people have always existed, just not always labeled. I don't know about same-sex marriages in antiquity, as marriages weren't usually about love and affection back then, so if there were same-sex marriages, it probably had more to do with property and legal matters between families in the absence of opposite-sex participants. Only recently has it become socially acceptable for same-sex relationships to mirror heterosexual ones as a lifestyle that can function as a foundation for a family/household. Not that ancients saw it as morally wrong, just not practical, as marriage was for the purpose of producing babies.

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic :lol:

[David19]

That's true, queer people have always existed, just not always labeled. I don't know about same-sex marriages in antiquity, as marriages weren't usually about love and affection back then, so if there were same-sex marriages, it probably had more to do with property and legal matters between families in the absence of opposite-sex participants. Only recently has it become socially acceptable for same-sex relationships to mirror heterosexual ones as a lifestyle that can function as a foundation for a family/household. Not that ancients saw it as morally wrong, just not practical, as marriage was for the purpose of producing babies.

This thread has gotten a bit off-topic :lol:

True, it has gone OT, but, just to add, I know marriages were different back then (it was for political reasons, economic, social, etc), but, there were ceremonies that were performed for same-sex couples that would be the equivalent of what we might call a marriage today (hope that made some sense, and sorry for going OT :)).

[*~Amora~*]

With all due respect - Hellenion is in the middle of a rewrite and a revamping. Until we know what the mission statement is and what it is they are attempting to do - I left it off.

I assure you, Hellenion's Mission Statement was, and is not being, altered. Nor are the Bylaw changes in conflict with the Mission Statement.

Hellenion can be found here (http://www.hellenion.org/).