Powers of the witch

[David19]

I thought this would probably be the more accurate place for this, but, if someone feels it should be elsewhere, please feel free to move it :).

Anyway, I was just wondering, what is your view on the powers that witches were, alledged, to possess throughout history?, by powers, I mean, like in the Middle Ages, and, well, all throughout history (even before Christianity), witches were said to be able to do many things that some might think impossible, like turn invisible, turn into some kind of smoke to get through keyholes, teleport, fly, levitate, and do all manner of other things. I know, there's a tendancy to dismiss them (and I'm not sure what my own opinion is yet), but, I was reading part of 'The Devil's Picturebook' by Paul Huson (http://books.google.com/books?id=Pr-OsmAU1okC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Paul+Huson+-+The+Devil's+Picturebook&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false) on Google Books (and, it's really great, I'll definitely be getting it when I can, I'd recommend it too), and he discusses some things that, at a certain level, it's possible to develop, seemingly, unlimited powers, and, some of the things I've read that have been attributed to Buddhist & Hindu Monks and Yogis (not to mention Christian Saints, Monks, Desert Fathers, etc), and others, it might not be so insane that there could have been witches who were able to turn into smoke, teleport, fly (which, Doreen Valiente, apparantly, confirmed with her communications with dead witches), etc.

Anyway, I just wanted to get your opinion?, do you think it's all crazy and just legends attached to people who may have been witches, or do you think there was some kind of truth to it?.

Thanks for any replies :).

[thought_on_a_wind]

were less blocks and society was more open to individuals developing their powers, after the burning times, walls were put in place that are still here today regardless attempts to remove them. I'd not be surprised if turning into smoke was one of the lesser powers. In truth, shapeshifting seems to be more prominent across the world and supposedly has been practised universally to different degrees, which to me at least, begets that a lot of these "super human" abilities are not that super or unnatural even now... in the end, we are just as much a collection of energies as much as the rest of our surroundings.

[David19]

were less blocks and society was more open to individuals developing their powers, after the burning times, walls were put in place that are still here today regardless attempts to remove them. I'd not be surprised if turning into smoke was one of the lesser powers. In truth, shapeshifting seems to be more prominent across the world and supposedly has been practised universally to different degrees, which to me at least, begets that a lot of these "super human" abilities are not that super or unnatural even now... in the end, we are just as much a collection of energies as much as the rest of our surroundings.

Thanks for the quick reply!, and, I think I agree with you, although, I don't think the path to learn the abilities would be "easy", but, I do think more people would be able to access them.

[thought_on_a_wind]

well... that's when one is forced to learn them against there will... starting with connections to the divines... from what I understand it kinda is painful....

[~*Sacred*~]

Back then, everyone grew up with the knowledge of herbs and tinctures and etc... many things that we witches use today that is seen as not normal unless you tell another it's a homeopathic remedy instead of a spell...In any case, everyone grew up with knowledge that we now seek today, witches back then did not have to spend their time learning everything that we're trying to catch up on now, therefore their time and energy was spent with the more "hardcore" things... I do not think that these "smoke and flying" things were literally real though. They had more time to do astral travel/remote viewing. They knew how to better (overall) access the higher planes, and we (those that believe this anyway) know that the higher planes do not abide by the same laws that our plane does so it is possible for them to do many things that we do not do on this plane.

I think I just repeated myself, but anyway... you get the picture :hyper:

[Terra Mater]

Some of those "blocks" came about as a result of technology. Many of the "old time shapeshiofters" were inreality top notch costumers and actors/actresses" with a great concept of creating their own stage effects. With no movies and TV, people would often mistakes these more mundane forms of "magic" for actual transformations.

Now lets take this a step further. You have a woman or man who lives alone in the woods. On summer nights they amuse themselves by making net traps for fireflies and filling bowls with "glow moss". Someone walks by and sees the glow of the fireflies and moss from the road just hanging in singular spots. They assume the woman has summoned "witchfire".

In modern times, walking by a house with a bunch of animal hides tacked to the wall for drying might make people wonder if the person in the house was a budding serial killer when in fact they might merely be trying their hand at some old style hide tanning. The smells of bowls of putrefying brains as you get close to the home would only add to those worries.

[Convallaria]

I think it was all misconceived. As Terra Mater noted, a passerby would see something they didn't recognize as normal, and assume it was magic, when in reality it was simply something mundane that the witch was doing.

I also agree that on other planes of existence things like flying are absolutely possible, and when they were reported they were taken as reality.

I also believe it was fear mongering. If you believed a person could turn you into a newt (I got better... *cough*) you would be afraid of that person, and more than likely you would spread the rumor even saying that you saw it happen, or that it happened to you in order to have that person tried as a witch... possibly put on a giant scale and compared by weight to.. lets say.. a duck..

sorry, I couldn't resist some Holy Grail humor...

[Newbieoffractals]

I don't think that in the past people just had all these magical abilities, and that the "Burning times" destroyed "witchcraft". Religion might have played a role in it, and heroes of myths might have been seen as magical, due to the Gods wishes. Christian saints had many of those same abilities... As did witches, and actors and actresses in the past. Strange things happen, just by chance. A lot of people accused of witchcraft were alchemists, who were often seen as being in pacts with the devil. In reality, they were doing chemistry 101 and explained it using the terms they knew to explain it, ie, astrology and other things that are seen as "witchy" today. Most people probably didn't know about the astral plane, or they viewed it as a part of their religion, similar to connecting with God, which is still found in many Christian religions and most religions with the form of prayer.

Also, if you disappear for 50 years or so in an era when most people can't get back home after leaving, and you return, it's a lot cooler to exaggerated what you saw, esp if you couldn't totally understand it. Then, the mundane explanations with greed and such would also have existed. We like to make up stories.

ETA-Also, in the past people drank alcohol more often than we do now, because drinking water wasn't safe. A lot of mental illnesses weren't treated. If you're drunk and an older women(Who looks sick and strange, who lives off in the woods as opposed to a normal farming life, and let's say she's managed to heal your kid from a cold by giving them a tea of sorts) is also drunk and crazy, and believes she can turn into smoke, you might believe her more often than if you're sober and have science.

[Convallaria]

eta-also, in the past people drank alcohol more often than we do now, because drinking water wasn't safe. A lot of mental illnesses weren't treated. If you're drunk and an older women(who looks sick and strange, who lives off in the woods as opposed to a normal farming life, and let's say she's managed to heal your kid from a cold by giving them a tea of sorts) is also drunk and crazy, and believes she can turn into smoke, you might believe her more often than if you're sober and have science.

qft!

[~*Sacred*~]

ETA-Also, in the past people drank alcohol more often than we do now, because drinking water wasn't safe. A lot of mental illnesses weren't treated. If you're drunk and an older women(Who looks sick and strange, who lives off in the woods as opposed to a normal farming life, and let's say she's managed to heal your kid from a cold by giving them a tea of sorts) is also drunk and crazy, and believes she can turn into smoke, you might believe her more often than if you're sober and have science.

haha! nice lol

[Adalai]

I agree with some previous posters.

I think most of it was an illusion, "smoke and mirrors" and the "wonder" it caused in others gave the witches of old an advantage of some sort.

This is a horrible example, but still I can't help but be reminded of Mythbusters and the Ninja episode(s). It was more about "looking" like they could do things to instill fear and anxiety.

[Tobias]

In the past it could take days or weeks for basic information to reach people. The king or some other celebrity might die, the country might go to war, or a natural disaster occurs, and nobody knows anything about it for some time. Except maybe the local psychic person, who gets her information from other sources! ;)

Now that we have telephones, tv, and twitter, if someone does learn about it from "other" sources, nobody's impressed because now it comes slower than technology!

[Tobias]

Another thought too is healing arts. In the past witches would have a unique source of information that could tell them what herbs and medicines to give a patient. Nobody knew what the cause of the sicknesses were, or what substances to use to cure them. But being in touch with healing muses produced miraculous effects!

In many ways I think the Gods are giving us the secrets to their powers. We call it technology, and many use it to prove to themselves that the Gods do not exist! But we are learning all the means humanly possible to prolong life and make it a good one besides. We may not be able to control natural disasters, but we can predict the weather, brace ourselves for storms and tornadoes, and may be able to someday know when earthquakes are about to happen.

The mysteries of witchcraft are becoming understood by science. The slight of hand and other forms of deception are studied and perfected by stage magicians.

I know that my relationship with my Gods has worked me through many issues normally dealt with through years of therapy. Once again, that which the Gods can do we are developing the technology to do it ourselves.

I don't think this means that the Gods have become irrelevant. Not in the least! They are simply proving that they don't need us to come begging at their feet for things they can teach us to do for ourselves.

[Nuadu]

Anyway, I was just wondering, what is your view on the powers that witches were, alledged, to possess throughout history?, by powers, I mean, like in the Middle Ages, and, well, all throughout history (even before Christianity), witches were said to be able to do many things that some might think impossible, like turn invisible, turn into some kind of smoke to get through keyholes, teleport, fly, levitate, and do all manner of other things.

I would put that down to the nature of the medieval stories, they would probably be more folklore then history. I think its worth remembering that while folklore isnt history that Folklore is *real* to people. Biddy Early for example is probably the most famous Irish Bean Feassa/Witch and despite her being a purely folkloric charactor, a modern expression of the tutelary/mother goddess theme, you can visit numerous abandoned houses where Biddy Early 'lived'.


Anyway, I just wanted to get your opinion?, do you think it's all crazy and just legends attached to people who may have been witches, or do you think there was some kind of truth to it?.

Thanks for any replies :).

Would I attempt to rationalise folklore... no but as neopagans, if we consider witch stories may be a modern perception of the goddesses we know exist then it might be possible to say that folklore lacking a rational basis doesnt make it less true then historical fact.

[Kaliayev]

A level one witch can cast two level one spells and four cantrips per day, so long as they have an Intelligence score of 11 or more and have rested for 8 hours previously.

[Cindlady2]

A level one witch can cast two level one spells and four cantrips per day, so long as they have an Intelligence score of 11 or more and have rested for 8 hours previously.

LOL... OKay.... I'll have to remember that.
also,
I'll have to recheck my level....hehehe