General website gripe

[TornadoAli]

Have you noticed that the majority of the pagan sites out there are heinous? Is there a rule somewhere stating that if you are going to create a pagan website, you must use numerous animated gifs, flashing text, ugly colours, etc? It just seems to me there are an overabundance of unprofessional sites out there, and that reflects badly upon us as a community.

What do you think?

[Xentor]

The majority of all websites suck. Statistically speaking, pagan websites would have a fair amount of crappy sites as well.

Here's a good source for do-s and don't-s on the web:
http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/

[IvyCeltress]

I know what you mean, among other things I'm a usability analyst in real life. I try to remember a lot of these people setting up these sites are not professional designers. I've also find that when people first learn a a software package like Frontpage or Photoshop or whatever, they feel that they need to turn on every goldarn option because it's there rather than making aesthetic or usability decisions.

[DixieWitch]

I've noticed this also. My favorite thing is to do a specific search,for example, Sabbats. And all the pages I get sound like they were made by new Pagans. That is why I enjoy MW! I know i can get real info here.

[Gareth]

All hail MW!!

I have to agree, I've seen some of those sites.
They suck.

This site is well taken care of.

[Erincelt]

Lets not even get into the fun game of "gee, where did I just read that exact paragraph... oh yes it was on this other page here, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one...." ad nauseum.

[TornadoAli]

Maybe I am just annoyed by it because I'm a professional web developer, lol

[Xentor]

I can understand that. Part of my income is based on creating websites. I consider myself quite good technically, but depending on whether I plan to direct an article at a paying public, the general public or myself, I take another approach for editing its contents. Which means that some of my own articles suck majorly.

Besides that, I use my web site as my private technical webtech playground, so some page are going to crash your browser! But those pages are clearly marked, so they shouldn't suck. I wish more people marked what public for their articles they intended.

[Heathen Dawn]

Idiots who entrust their webpages to WYSIWYG tools instead of coding the HTML by hand. Not to mention the unicorns.

[Xentor]

We all have to learn somehow. Some choose to learn before they start, others afterwards...

[moonmorgan]

Lets not even get into the fun game of "gee, where did I just read that exact paragraph... oh yes it was on this other page here, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one, and this one...." ad nauseum.

Yes isn't that a fun game LOL. Actually I used to be one of those who copied and pasted others work although I was never one to put WAY too many graphics. However I've seen the error in my ways and have completely changed my webpage. No more work of others without permission.

[Rainy_09131983]

IMO, websites should not be judged by their looks but by content. I have seen some ugly sites turn into masterpieces later, but wether or not they have anything useful makes the difference.
I do agree that all the flashy animations are not only an un-needed eye strain, but also a server strain. I'm an IT student...go figure. ANYWAY...still on the same point, I do agree, most pagan sites suck.
Which is what I said in my intro, more or less. LoL

[Scieran]

Sometimes people are just learning.

I learnt HTML by doing, and looking back on some of my old webpages, they were terrible! But its how I learned, by figuring it out as I went along, visiting websites, deciding what I hated and what I liked.

I try to make allowances for bad design because I know I've been guilty of some terrible design mistakes myself in the past.

[BlueFlame]

I know what you mean. Most pagan sites are terrible. They're the same old black or purple background with animated dancing faeries and spinning pentacles. And all the content is straight from SRW or Cunningham.

I've only seen a few Pagan or Wiccan websites that are done well.

Like:
http://www.openhearth.org/
http://wicca.timerift.net/
http://www.witchvox.com/

The last two were done by people who haven't formaly studied webdesign, but taught themselves.

Maybe thats why the Pagan community dosn't have many good trained website designers, we've got that "teach our selves" mentality. ;)

[Bec_W]

My top three fave website design errors:
1 - the use of animated backgrounds
2 - yellow text, this may be a personal thing, but I always find yellow text hard to read.
2 - those annoying cursor trails
but if a site's usable and has good information it outwieghts the above.

Alot of pagan sites are writen by people who have only just started on their pagan path and who don't know a lot of html

[Ari]

I don't mind so much about layout (as long as there aren't too many images for my poor dial-up connection) if the content is good. As far as Pagan websites go, I'm most interested in personal-experience/opinion type stuff. And as long as it's legible, a good essay is a good essay regardless of what font it's printed in. I can understand why professional designers would be picky, but most amateur writers have day jobs that have nothing to do with computers ;)

[Rain Gnosis]

Teaching oneself is not the problem, it's the mentality that everyone can make a website with a slap dash WYSIWYG editor and a few "cool" graphics.

As a professional web developer with several years experience and a diploma in Computer Programming it gets on my nerves. I taught myself web design too, and I have a job (outside of web development), it doesn't give me the excuse to slap some stuff together. The problem with most bad Pagan sites is that usually when the graphics or layout are that bad the content is all lifted off something else anyway. Laziness is laziness, whether it's in learning HTML or writing something original. You wouldn't expect someone to call themself a plumber just because they used Drano, and yet people consider themself "web designers" when they have no clue what they're doing. Accessibility, usability, efficient code, server load - not just Frontpage and a couple spinning pentacles. Since the web is so much less tangible we don't have the same standards - you don't really have to worry about your computer flooding out if your "plumber/web designer" doesn't know what he's doing.

Give me a simple site with no graphics and good content and I'll be happy. Give me a site where the person has slapped some crappy animated graphics on a starry background with yellow centered text, and the blinding nature of the site itself will guarantee I won't be reading it. At *best* I might copy and paste the text, assuming there's enough content to justify doing so, into Office to read it. But like I said, if the layout's bad enough usually there's no content to begin with.

By the way, Ari's site is lovely *and* has a lot of original, beautiful writing on it. Just thought I'd toss that in.

[Shanti]

differant taiste...:)

[poetic]

There also seems to be a rule involving mystical creatures, black-on-black (not that I have a problem with black, just variety, people!), and/or scary Flash-y-ness. :foh:

[CaitrionaMorgaine]

I'm just an average person who happens to have their own website. I try very hard to make mine easy on the eyes, and all of my content is original. I love websites that are like that. If I can find it one 14 million other pages, why should I read it on yours? You know?

As Xentor said, we're all learning....and I'll admit my site is much better now, design and content wise, than it was a few years ago.

Blessings, ~Rhiannon

[Chaos Witch]

I agree with many posts and almost can't choose which one to point out. I do find many pagan personal sites to be offensive to the eyes and that alone discourages me from continuing. I have taken many course in fine arts and I enjoy beauty not some seizure inducing so called layout.

Most of all I have to say looking back on my own old sites I have learned a lot and went from writing my code by hand to using a wysiwyg program.. go figure, I got very lazy but I produce more faster this way. Anything could be the reason to why one has a crappy site but I sure do wish if they can't do the graphics they would do the plain and simple thing if they truly have something to share.

[Xander67]

well, I like COLORS I get irratated by the Stereotypical site with the obligatory pentagram and Black Background, BE CREATIVE lol

Oh Dreamweaver Rocks!

[Xander67]

Chaos I like your site by the way :)

[~ Monk ~]

You wouldn't expect someone to call themself a plumber just because they used Drano, and yet people consider themself "web designers" when they have no clue what they're doing.
I agree - and this applies, in my opinion, to much of graphic design in general. Desktop publishing has been a blessing and a curse.

[Chaos Witch]

Chaos I like your site by the way :)

Thank you, I think I am going to change it soon.. I can't keep a layout for long :lol:

[fay]

well i feel very dumb by comparison. ive not got my own website and would have no idea how to go about. i wouldnt want my own site anyways as it would probably just say "heylo!...umm...welcome!...umm...hi....umm...yeah..." :nyah:
but i do agree that there are a lot of people who are new to paganism, learn one thing and decide to 'share their knowledge' (!) by creating a website. so they try to cover the lack of content with some hideous graphics.
the best sites are rarely flashy as the makers want readers to focus on the content and what they have to say rather than how fast their pentacle can spin! :nyah:
blessed be all

btw if anyone here has written a site or knows of a good site and wants to post or pm me with it then thatd be cool. (i keep coming across the very sites people here are complaining about) i dont whether thats too :fofftopic and if it is im sorry

[Red_Cedars]

Have you noticed that the majority of the pagan sites out there are heinous? Is there a rule somewhere stating that if you are going to create a pagan website, you must use numerous animated gifs, flashing text, ugly colours, etc? It just seems to me there are an overabundance of unprofessional sites out there, and that reflects badly upon us as a community.

What do you think?

I belong to a group that attempts to counter this trend. One of our tools is to do parody sites. We had a contest to see who could create the most awful site. Here's a link to my entry:

http://www.redcedars.net/yuck/yuck.htm

For best (worst?) effect, turn up the sound. Oh, and I appologize in advance if I crash your browser by overloading it.

R_C