Alexandrian Wicca

[Morgandria]

How many British Traditional Wiccans are here at MW?

I'm not one myself - I'd like to be, tho. This Beltane will be my second Sabbat I've been invited to celebrate with an Alexandrian coven, and I'm hoping that they'll let me dedicate myself to the tradition in the near future.

Just being a curious crow. :)
-M.

[DebLipp]

Well, I'm a Gardnerian. We Alexandrians and Gardnerians tend to "bond," y'know, because we have so much in common, and in ways that are distinct from the larger Wiccan community. One often sees Alexandrians, Gardnerians, and some others lumped together under the umbrella "British Traditionalist."

[mucgwyrt]

"Traditionalist"??! I'm not sure I'd call Gardnerian Wicca a "traditional" british form of witchcraft myself... *shocked*

[Kaylara]

*cracks up*

[Morgandria]

Yeah. The coven I'm celebrating with is probably more properly described as BTW - several of the members I know of are initiated into both Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca, including a woman who has been my mentor for many years now. I think I would have the choice of either, honestly. I haven't really thought about it much - I get anxious just wondering if they'd accept me as a student at all.

-M.

[DebLipp]

"Traditionalist"??! I'm not sure I'd call Gardnerian Wicca a "traditional" british form of witchcraft myself... *shocked*

That's because the word "traditionalist" has been used in two different ways for many years. The first (which I distinguish with a lower case "t") is used to refer to fam trads; it is traditional because it is hereditary.

The second is when the path itself is called a Tradition (hence the upper case "T"), meaning it is initiatory, structured, mystery-based, and passes lineage. Gardnerianism is the first modern Tradition, of which there are several. Collectively, they are often called BTW -- British Traditional Wicca.

[mucgwyrt]

Ok, I'm less in shock when you put it like that (and when you add 'wicca' to the end ;) )

[Morgandria]

Bump!

[rhinoa]

I am initiated ino a group that has both Gardnarian and Alexandrian links. So I guess that makes me one. I am still very new to it and learning the ropes, but I love it all so far :)

[Semjaza]

This is an old thread so I should probably start a new one for my question, but...

Apart from the founders, what are the main differences between Alexandrian Wicca and Gardnerian Wicca? I've heard that Alexandrians are more into ceremonial magic than Gardnerians (wasn't Alex Sanders a ceremonial magician?), and that they might give 2nd and 3rd degree at the same time, but other than that I'm not so sure. Anywho...

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF

[shuvanilu]

Well, that's sounds pretty close to my understanding. I am not Alexandrian, but this is what I have read: Alex Sanders was Gardnerian, but split from his coven to create his own trad (he and his wife, Maxine, I should point out). The Alexandrian Trad includes more ceremonial magicks and is a *little* more eclectic than Gardnerian. They might call angels and Watchtowers, make use of the Tetragrammaton, use Kabbalah and Enochian magick, etc...Supposedly, Alexandrian covens are more open to homosexual/bi-sexual couples than Gardnerian. Janet and Stewart Farrar's book "A Witches' Bible" is a good look at the trad. As to whether or not they allow receiving the 2nd and 3rd degrees at the same time, I have never heard that. I'm pretty sure they are still a 3 degree system. But I think that they have the option of being a part of the circle as a "neophyte", so that you can explore the religion hands on before fully dedicating yourself under oath to it. Anywhoooz, that's my understanding. Surely there are others here that know more than I.---shuvanilu

[Morgandria]

No ceremonialists in my coven, but that's ok. :p

It is a 3 degree system. Neophyting is the student-oath; you take a teacher and begin learning the tradition; this is the step towards Initiation. You take an oath at this point not to reveal any oathbound information to those who have not taken the same oath. Before that is Dedication - it's not to the coven, but rather to the Gods. This is the step where you can join in the circle and decide whether you want to follow the path, without having to be a coven member or see any oathbound information.

Not everyone chooses to become a Neophyte, and that's ok. Not every Neophyte chooses to become an Initiate, and that's ok too.

[jetpiston]

Supposedly, Alexandrian covens are more open to homosexual/bi-sexual couples than Gardnerian.

Not specifically on topic perhaps, but...

Gardnerianism is open to any sincere person who is called by the Gods to become their Priest(ess), regardless of their sexual orientation. Any problems that people have with homosexuals/bi-sexuals in Gardnerianism are just that, problems of those specific people, not of the Craft itself.

Jet
3*Gard.

[shuvanilu]

I think the way I wrote that wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that Gards as a whole were unacccepting to homosexuality. I only meant that I had heard and read that Gardnerian covens were generally composed of male/female pairs, and that Alexandrian covens weren't as strict about that. Of course this is only what I have heard and read, I'm not BTW, which is why I tried to be clear that that was only my understanding, not specific facts. Sorry about being unclear there.---shuvanilu

[jetpiston]

No problem, I wasn't trying to be critical of your post specifically, but was kind of addressing the unfortunately common perception that Gardnerianism is somehow homophobic. I know gay and bi-sexual High Priests and High Priestesses who would disagree quite strenuously!

Working within a Tradition that emphasizes and practices duality doesn't preclude a person from loving or desiring another person, regardless of their sex.


Edited to add that this isn't really on topic. Sorry! Back to our regularly scheduled program...